Posted: 9/8/2011 5:52:19 PM EDT
| What about supressors, sbr, auto, aow's are any of those allowed? |
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NFA items are against state law. It is a defense to prosecution if you have the ATF tax stamps.
It is a weird way to write a law, but it's what we have. All you have to do is either get the chief law enforcement officer where you live sign off on your application or do an NFA trust. The trust is quicker and easier. Once you get your item keep a copy of the paperwork with you when you shoot them. That way the po-po probably will not bother you. The hook is that they can arrest you. The federal tax stamp is an affirmative defense, which means that you have to prove in court that you legally own them. Most prosecutors will not take a case like that. The police can arrest you but won't unless they are reall assholes. Jim |
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NFA items are against state law. It is a defense to prosecution if you have the ATF tax stamps. It is a weird way to write a law, but it's what we have. All you have to do is either get the chief law enforcement officer where you live sign off on your application or do an NFA trust. The trust is quicker and easier. Once you get your item keep a copy of the paperwork with you when you shoot them. That way the po-po probably will not bother you. The hook is that they can arrest you. The federal tax stamp is an affirmative defense, which means that you have to prove in court that you legally own them. Most prosecutors will not take a case like that. The police can arrest you but won't unless they are reall assholes. Jim Call me cautious, but why risk it then? It seems to me that it is to much of a risk. At least the way you describe it! |
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NFA items are against state law. It is a defense to prosecution if you have the ATF tax stamps. It is a weird way to write a law, but it's what we have. All you have to do is either get the chief law enforcement officer where you live sign off on your application or do an NFA trust. The trust is quicker and easier. Once you get your item keep a copy of the paperwork with you when you shoot them. That way the po-po probably will not bother you. The hook is that they can arrest you. The federal tax stamp is an affirmative defense, which means that you have to prove in court that you legally own them. Most prosecutors will not take a case like that. The police can arrest you but won't unless they are reall assholes. Jim Call me cautious, but why risk it then? It seems to me that it is to much of a risk. At least the way you describe it! It isn't a risk. There are very few, if any, police who would bother with it other than checking the NFA paperwork if they had a reason to check you at all. Houston had the last problem prosecutor that I have heard of, but he was mostly butthurt about carrying in a vehicle. Jim |
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NFA items are against state law. It is a defense to prosecution if you have the ATF tax stamps. It is a weird way to write a law, but it's what we have. All you have to do is either get the chief law enforcement officer where you live sign off on your application or do an NFA trust. The trust is quicker and easier. Once you get your item keep a copy of the paperwork with you when you shoot them. That way the po-po probably will not bother you. The hook is that they can arrest you. The federal tax stamp is an affirmative defense, which means that you have to prove in court that you legally own them. Most prosecutors will not take a case like that. The police can arrest you but won't unless they are reall assholes. Jim Call me cautious, but why risk it then? It seems to me that it is to much of a risk. At least the way you describe it! It isn't a risk. There are very few, if any, police who would bother with it other than checking the NFA paperwork if they had a reason to check you at all. Houston had the last problem prosecutor that I have heard of, but he was mostly butthurt about carrying in a vehicle. Jim Let me ask you this! Say you are out shooting legally and a Sheriff Deputy rolls up who just so happens to be having a bad day! You have you paperwork and everything is in order, could he legally arrest you according to the code of criminal procedure? If the answer is yes, then it is a risk. You know what they say, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride! Why set your self up for the potential headache? |
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NFA items are against state law. It is a defense to prosecution if you have the ATF tax stamps. It is a weird way to write a law, but it's what we have. All you have to do is either get the chief law enforcement officer where you live sign off on your application or do an NFA trust. The trust is quicker and easier. Once you get your item keep a copy of the paperwork with you when you shoot them. That way the po-po probably will not bother you. The hook is that they can arrest you. The federal tax stamp is an affirmative defense, which means that you have to prove in court that you legally own them. Most prosecutors will not take a case like that. The police can arrest you but won't unless they are reall assholes. Jim Call me cautious, but why risk it then? It seems to me that it is to much of a risk. At least the way you describe it! It isn't a risk. There are very few, if any, police who would bother with it other than checking the NFA paperwork if they had a reason to check you at all. Houston had the last problem prosecutor that I have heard of, but he was mostly butthurt about carrying in a vehicle. Jim Let me ask you this! Say you are out shooting legally and a Sheriff Deputy rolls up who just so happens to be having a bad day! You have you paperwork and everything is in order, could he legally arrest you according to the code of criminal procedure? If the answer is yes, then it is a risk. You know what they say, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride! Why set your self up for the potential headache? Yes he can. It is a defense to prosecution, but he can arrest. Almost none will because they know you can't be prosecuted- or at least most know. Some LEOs are not up on all the firearm laws. Carry your NFA paperwork and a copy of the penal code with the defense to prosecution with the NFA item. I have read where some guys have it miniaturized and laminated and keep it in the same case as the item. Why risk it? Because NFA toys are cool. Jim |
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NFA items are against state law. It is a defense to prosecution if you have the ATF tax stamps. It is a weird way to write a law, but it's what we have. All you have to do is either get the chief law enforcement officer where you live sign off on your application or do an NFA trust. The trust is quicker and easier. Once you get your item keep a copy of the paperwork with you when you shoot them. That way the po-po probably will not bother you. The hook is that they can arrest you. The federal tax stamp is an affirmative defense, which means that you have to prove in court that you legally own them. Most prosecutors will not take a case like that. The police can arrest you but won't unless they are reall assholes. Jim Call me cautious, but why risk it then? It seems to me that it is to much of a risk. At least the way you describe it! It isn't a risk. There are very few, if any, police who would bother with it other than checking the NFA paperwork if they had a reason to check you at all. Houston had the last problem prosecutor that I have heard of, but he was mostly butthurt about carrying in a vehicle. Jim Let me ask you this! Say you are out shooting legally and a Sheriff Deputy rolls up who just so happens to be having a bad day! You have you paperwork and everything is in order, could he legally arrest you according to the code of criminal procedure? If the answer is yes, then it is a risk. You know what they say, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride! Why set your self up for the potential headache? Google Texas Penal Code 46.05 |
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Let me ask you this! Say you are out shooting legally and a Sheriff Deputy rolls up who just so happens to be having a bad day! You have you paperwork and everything is in order, could he legally arrest you according to the code of criminal procedure? If the answer is yes, then it is a risk. You know what they say, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride! Why set your self up for the potential headache? Yes, it is a risk. An incredibly tiny, minuscule risk. Likewise, a deputy having a bad day can legally arrest you for reckless driving or weaving if he subjectively determines you changed lanes too quickly or too often. But don't let that discourage you from changing lanes while driving. There may be risk, but it's insignificant, just like the NFA risk. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Let me ask you this! Say you are out shooting legally and a Sheriff Deputy rolls up who just so happens to be having a bad day! You have you paperwork and everything is in order, could he legally arrest you according to the code of criminal procedure? If the answer is yes, then it is a risk. You know what they say, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride! Why set your self up for the potential headache? Yes, it is a risk. An incredibly tiny, minuscule risk. Likewise, a deputy having a bad day can legally arrest you for reckless driving or weaving if he subjectively determines you changed lanes too quickly or too often. But don't let that discourage you from changing lanes while driving. There may be risk, but it's insignificant, just like the NFA risk. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile What gets under many people's skin, including my own, is the 'guilty until proven innocent' stigma, which is against most American's phyci. |
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Let me ask you this! Say you are out shooting legally and a Sheriff Deputy rolls up who just so happens to be having a bad day! You have you paperwork and everything is in order, could he legally arrest you according to the code of criminal procedure? If the answer is yes, then it is a risk. You know what they say, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride! Why set your self up for the potential headache? Yes, it is a risk. An incredibly tiny, minuscule risk. Likewise, a deputy having a bad day can legally arrest you for reckless driving or weaving if he subjectively determines you changed lanes too quickly or too often. But don't let that discourage you from changing lanes while driving. There may be risk, but it's insignificant, just like the NFA risk. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile What gets under many people's skin, including my own, is the 'guilty until proven innocent' stigma, which is against most American's phyci. If it was really a problem no one whould have them. There are a ton of LEO and Mil guys here that have SBR's, full auto, suppresors, etc. I doubt they would risk loosing their jobs over it. |
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Let me ask you this! Say you are out shooting legally and a Sheriff Deputy rolls up who just so happens to be having a bad day! You have you paperwork and everything is in order, could he legally arrest you according to the code of criminal procedure? If the answer is yes, then it is a risk. You know what they say, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride! Why set your self up for the potential headache? You could say that about doing almost anything. I think a cop can always find a way to arrest someone who is being a real dick if he really wants to. Someone's demeanor is going to go a long way in determining how the conversation goes with the cop, IMO. |
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Let me ask you this! Say you are out shooting legally and a Sheriff Deputy rolls up who just so happens to be having a bad day! You have you paperwork and everything is in order, could he legally arrest you according to the code of criminal procedure? If the answer is yes, then it is a risk. You know what they say, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride! Why set your self up for the potential headache? Yes, it is a risk. An incredibly tiny, minuscule risk. Likewise, a deputy having a bad day can legally arrest you for reckless driving or weaving if he subjectively determines you changed lanes too quickly or too often. But don't let that discourage you from changing lanes while driving. There may be risk, but it's insignificant, just like the NFA risk. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile What gets under many people's skin, including my own, is the 'guilty until proven innocent' stigma, which is against most American's phyci. If it was really a problem no one whould have them. There are a ton of LEO and Mil guys here that have SBR's, full auto, suppresors, etc. I doubt they would risk loosing their jobs over it. LEO that would arrest are also more likely the type to think LEO are exempt from NFA. LEO can take their department issued NFA items home with them while I've never seen MIL allowed. |
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Let me ask you this! Say you are out shooting legally and a Sheriff Deputy rolls up who just so happens to be having a bad day! You have you paperwork and everything is in order, could he legally arrest you according to the code of criminal procedure? If the answer is yes, then it is a risk. You know what they say, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride! Why set your self up for the potential headache? Yes, it is a risk. An incredibly tiny, minuscule risk. Likewise, a deputy having a bad day can legally arrest you for reckless driving or weaving if he subjectively determines you changed lanes too quickly or too often. But don't let that discourage you from changing lanes while driving. There may be risk, but it's insignificant, just like the NFA risk. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile What gets under many people's skin, including my own, is the 'guilty until proven innocent' stigma, which is against most American's phyci. If it was really a problem no one whould have them. There are a ton of LEO and Mil guys here that have SBR's, full auto, suppresors, etc. I doubt they would risk loosing their jobs over it. LEO that would arrest are also more likely the type to think LEO are exempt from NFA. LEO can take their department issued NFA items home with them while I've never seen MIL allowed. I'm talking about personally owned items here. I've shot on ranges with both local and federal agaents, no one has ever hassled me. I do no of a instance where the ATF got involved in Dallas though but thats only because the guy was shooting at his neighbor with a unregistered SBR. |
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NFA items are against state law. It is a defense to prosecution if you have the ATF tax stamps. It is a weird way to write a law, but it's what we have. All you have to do is either get the chief law enforcement officer where you live sign off on your application or do an NFA trust. The trust is quicker and easier. Once you get your item keep a copy of the paperwork with you when you shoot them. That way the po-po probably will not bother you. The hook is that they can arrest you. The federal tax stamp is an affirmative defense, which means that you have to prove in court that you legally own them. Most prosecutors will not take a case like that. The police can arrest you but won't unless they are reall assholes. Jim Call me cautious, but why risk it then? It seems to me that it is to much of a risk. At least the way you describe it! It isn't a risk. There are very few, if any, police who would bother with it other than checking the NFA paperwork if they had a reason to check you at all. Houston had the last problem prosecutor that I have heard of, but he was mostly butthurt about carrying in a vehicle. Jim Let me ask you this! Say you are out shooting legally and a Sheriff Deputy rolls up who just so happens to be having a bad day! You have you paperwork and everything is in order, could he legally arrest you according to the code of criminal procedure? If the answer is yes, then it is a risk. You know what they say, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride! Why set your self up for the potential headache? I set myself up for a potential headache, but don't have it yet for the last 12yrs.  ....
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At my club's range if someone shoots with a suppressed rifle or pistol I can guarantee the range officer, and about everyone else will come over and drool over it and pester the shooter to death with questions about it. I do not remember hearing anyone being hassled about it.
Full auto isn't allowed, but a SBR would be no problem. Jim |
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What gets under many people's skin, including my own, is the 'guilty until proven innocent' stigma, which is against most American's phyci. I do not disagree with you. But I still live here, and you can always remember: It's better to ask forgiveness than permission :) |
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Let me ask you this! Say you are out shooting legally and a Sheriff Deputy rolls up who just so happens to be having a bad day! You have you paperwork and everything is in order, could he legally arrest you according to the code of criminal procedure? If the answer is yes, then it is a risk. You know what they say, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride! Why set your self up for the potential headache? Yes, it is a risk. An incredibly tiny, minuscule risk. Likewise, a deputy having a bad day can legally arrest you for reckless driving or weaving if he subjectively determines you changed lanes too quickly or too often. But don't let that discourage you from changing lanes while driving. There may be risk, but it's insignificant, just like the NFA risk. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile What gets under many people's skin, including my own, is the 'guilty until proven innocent' stigma, which is against most American's phyci. If it was really a problem no one whould have them. There are a ton of LEO and Mil guys here that have SBR's, full auto, suppresors, etc. I doubt they would risk loosing their jobs over it. LEO that would arrest are also more likely the type to think LEO are exempt from NFA. LEO can take their department issued NFA items home with them while I've never seen MIL allowed. I'm talking about personally owned items here. I've shot on ranges with both local and federal agaents, no one has ever hassled me. I do no of a instance where the ATF got involved in Dallas though but thats only because the guy was shooting at his neighbor with a unregistered SBR. I'm talking about the LEO community in general that does not have a clear understanding of NFA, of which, there are LEOs in that group that abuse the use of Form 5's like they were their own, using as personal weapons, not as department issued as they should be, as required by law. This is the same group that only think THEY should be allowed to have the fun toys, not US. It highly unlikely fellow LEO would arrest their brothers for these violations but I have read where Feds have gotten involved only to see the guilty LEOs get off with little or no punishment. Thankfully, there are plenty of local and federal LEOs in HTF that understand the rules. I have never known anybody to actually be arrested but I have personally been threatened with arrest by Barney Fifes since I refused to show them my permit and their DPS buddy insisted on reminding me MGs are illegal... This has been discussed in a previous thread with the conclusion it would be highly doubtful the owner of a legally registered NFA item will be arrested as long as they were keeping their noses clean. Also, there are SO many people getting into building their own AR15s that have no clue about the consequences of SBRs & AOWs and I have yet to hear a case of BATFE getting involved. |
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Since we are on the subject, does anyone know of anyone or know of any incidents where someone was arrested in this scenario? Just curious. As mentioned by others, there is a risk you can be arrested. My honest take is that it is wise to keep a copy of your NFA paperwork as well as copies of the relevant Federal and Texas statues governing NFA firearms, keep it organized and on your person at all time when traveling or shooting. Personally, I also go through the trouble of getting the sheriff's signature on my F4s even though I have an LLC as I like my NFA paperwork to looks as "complete" and "official" as possible as it really a critical piece of paper standing between you and a ride to the local county lockup. Sure it's adds an extra month or so to the process but gives me a lifetime of better piece of mind, just my take. That said I have been collecting, driving, shooting all sort of NFA firearms all over this State for 10+ years and have never gone to jail yet (knock on wood). Have law enforcement been at shoots (yes), have LE at times checked people's paperwork (yes again), have I know some folks who if they had not kept a cool head and ended up acted like a dick to LE would have potentially gone to jail (yup). However, I have yet to meet anybody who has actually been arrested in Texas for being in possession of/or shooting a lawfully registered NFA firearm and I have met more than a handful of NFA collectors over the years. I am sure at some point it has happened but it is definately far...far... from a common occurance. |
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Since we are on the subject, does anyone know of anyone or know of any incidents where someone was arrested in this scenario? Just curious. As mentioned by others, there is a risk you can be arrested. My honest take is that it is wise to keep a copy of your NFA paperwork as well as copies of the relevant Federal and Texas statues governing NFA firearms, keep it organized and on your person at all time when traveling or shooting. Personally, I also go through the trouble of getting the sheriff's signature on my F4s even though I have an LLC as I like my NFA paperwork to looks as "complete" and "official" as possible as it really a critical piece of paper standing between you and a ride to the local county lockup. Sure it's adds an extra month or so to the process but gives me a lifetime of better piece of mind, just my take. That said I have been collecting, driving, shooting all sort of NFA firearms all over this State for 10+ years and have never gone to jail yet (knock on wood). Have law enforcement been at shoots (yes), have LE at times checked people's paperwork (yes again), have I know some folks who if they had not kept a cool head and ended up acted like a dick to LE would have potentially gone to jail (yup). However, I have yet to meet anybody who has actually been arrested in Texas for being in possession of/or shooting a lawfully registered NFA firearm and I have met more than a handful of NFA collectors over the years. I am sure at some point it has happened but it is definitely far...far... from a common occurrence. ask Ben The Emu about his trip back home to (Houston?) from the Hun Farm a few years ago before he moved to AK... |
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Since we are on the subject, does anyone know of anyone or know of any incidents where someone was arrested in this scenario? Just curious. As mentioned by others, there is a risk you can be arrested. My honest take is that it is wise to keep a copy of your NFA paperwork as well as copies of the relevant Federal and Texas statues governing NFA firearms, keep it organized and on your person at all time when traveling or shooting. Personally, I also go through the trouble of getting the sheriff's signature on my F4s even though I have an LLC as I like my NFA paperwork to looks as "complete" and "official" as possible as it really a critical piece of paper standing between you and a ride to the local county lockup. Sure it's adds an extra month or so to the process but gives me a lifetime of better piece of mind, just my take. That said I have been collecting, driving, shooting all sort of NFA firearms all over this State for 10+ years and have never gone to jail yet (knock on wood). Have law enforcement been at shoots (yes), have LE at times checked people's paperwork (yes again), have I know some folks who if they had not kept a cool head and ended up acted like a dick to LE would have potentially gone to jail (yup). However, I have yet to meet anybody who has actually been arrested in Texas for being in possession of/or shooting a lawfully registered NFA firearm and I have met more than a handful of NFA collectors over the years. I am sure at some point it has happened but it is definitely far...far... from a common occurrence. ask Ben The Emu about his trip back home to (Houston?) from the Hun Farm a few years ago before he moved to AK... It happened in Austin, and it didn't even involve Title II weapons. |
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Here is a guy found with a machine gun at DFW airport: An unattended rental truck loaded with pyrotechnics for the cable TV show "Sons of Guns" caused some tense moments at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport Sunday afternoon. Authorities also found an automatic weapon and pistol, both of which were legally registered and there were no firearm violations according to the airport. http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/129620573.htm |
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Since we are on the subject, does anyone know of anyone or know of any incidents where someone was arrested in this scenario? Just curious. As mentioned by others, there is a risk you can be arrested. My honest take is that it is wise to keep a copy of your NFA paperwork as well as copies of the relevant Federal and Texas statues governing NFA firearms, keep it organized and on your person at all time when traveling or shooting. Personally, I also go through the trouble of getting the sheriff's signature on my F4s even though I have an LLC as I like my NFA paperwork to looks as "complete" and "official" as possible as it really a critical piece of paper standing between you and a ride to the local county lockup. Sure it's adds an extra month or so to the process but gives me a lifetime of better piece of mind, just my take. That said I have been collecting, driving, shooting all sort of NFA firearms all over this State for 10+ years and have never gone to jail yet (knock on wood). Have law enforcement been at shoots (yes), have LE at times checked people's paperwork (yes again), have I know some folks who if they had not kept a cool head and ended up acted like a dick to LE would have potentially gone to jail (yup). However, I have yet to meet anybody who has actually been arrested in Texas for being in possession of/or shooting a lawfully registered NFA firearm and I have met more than a handful of NFA collectors over the years. I am sure at some point it has happened but it is definitely far...far... from a common occurrence. ask Ben The Emu about his trip back home to (Houston?) from the Hun Farm a few years ago before he moved to AK... It happened in Austin, and it didn't even involve Title II weapons. I forgot all about that story... |
| my bad, I had remembered that incident incorrectly... Ben / The_Emu in Austin ("traveling" issue) |