Posted: 4/1/2013 11:19:38 PM EDT
|
I know...I know...maybe this was too much of a controversial title, I hope not and everyone plays well, but that's what I'm looking at.
Situation: I am 27, single, and don't like where I moved to 8 years ago and am ready to get out. Background: I work in the medical profession (obviously to those of you who also do ;) ) and am looking at a job in the Fayetteville, AR area. Assessment: Both AR and MO seem pretty gun-friendly, and both have the kind of terrain I want in that area (hills, streams, nuclear type cities with very rural areas near the city, etc.). I want to buy 20-40 acres, am planning to spend $40-60K on that land, and would like: Stream, trees, place for a house, electric at the road, and a good water table to sink a well on. I want to be able to shoot/hunt/camp/swim on my own land. I do not mind driving up to 45 minutes to get to work 1-way (I am looking very hard at Mercy in Fayetteville). I was previously set on living in AR, but with MO so close, I don't want to cheat myself out of better firearm laws, lower taxes, or anything else that "I'm not looking at". Note: In AR I have noticed that I don't have a Castle Doctrine? Yet I also on the flip-side can hunt with my suppressed SBR and a 30 round mag. MO...? Recommendation: I am open. Is MO close enough to Fayetteville for me to have a <45m drive? Is it superior in any way tax/freedom/Cost of Living-wise that I should live in MO instead of AR? Can I find the kind of land I want for that there? My Realtor of choice is in the Rogers area, and they have found several "possibles" within my planned location/price already, although I am not moving for another 8 months or so. Thanks, all, and please, I know everyone (I hope?) is proud of their state, no need to be nasty to either one, if you feel the need, just take a swipe at LA for me ;) |
|
Quoted:
Live in Missouri, work in Arkansas! 
My drive to Rogers is 30 minutes. I have four stop signs and two lights to make it. The only traffic is getting stuck behind a tractor now and then. Lots of room up here! Land is by far less expensive too! That is what I am considering, and I was wanting to know the ups/downs of one state compared to the other if I chose to do that regarding rights, taxes, etc. |
|
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/state-taxes-arkansas.aspx http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/state-taxes-missouri.aspx It appears that AR also uses the "Personal Property Tax" to tax you for any vehicles that you own. I think it's a load of crap, but nothing I can do about it. We still have a lower tax burden than the folks across the river (IL). MO might have a slightly lower income tax rate, but the above sites don't provide any visibility into exemptions and credits. FWIW, if you're buying that much land you should look for a plot with 5-10 acres of arable land. You can sharecrop that out and then utilize any available farming subsidies and tax breaks. As a bonus, you'll also give yourself a nice foodstock for any deer/pigs that are around. Maybe you should try calling some accounting firms along the border, though I'd wait at least 3 weeks. They will be more familiar with the tax liabilities of each state and could tell you which scenario they thought would benefit you the most. I thought you could only hunt with 5+1 in MO, but I've never been out with a firearm because the lotteries for the public lands are hard to win. 5+1, 10+1; a magazine doesn't cost that much, or you can buy a limiter for $5 to drop into a 30 rd mag to make it compliant. |
| I believe Missouri has better CCW laws as well. At least as far as crime/punishment for accidentally carrying in a posted area. Also we have MUCH better alcohol laws. If you enjoy going out to watch football on Sunday you won't in Arkansas. No alcohol sold on Sundays. There are also many "dry" counties in Arkansas. If you like to hike on any public land you must also remember you cannot open carry in Arkansas. I camp down there once a year and that's my biggest complaint. We usually hike all of one day through some rugged hills. It would be much more comfortable for me to be able to open carry rather than conceal. |
This...if you can offer land for growing hay, it's damned near like growing gold! Last year's drought has made hay prices  This with any farming subsidies will really help off set expenses... Quoted: http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/state-taxes-arkansas.aspx http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/state-taxes-missouri.aspx It appears that AR also uses the "Personal Property Tax" to tax you for any vehicles that you own. I think it's a load of crap, but nothing I can do about it. We still have a lower tax burden than the folks across the river (IL). MO might have a slightly lower income tax rate, but the above sites don't provide any visibility into exemptions and credits. FWIW, if you're buying that much land you should look for a plot with 5-10 acres of arable land. You can sharecrop that out and then utilize any available farming subsidies and tax breaks. As a bonus, you'll also give yourself a nice foodstock for any deer/pigs that are around. Maybe you should try calling some accounting firms along the border, though I'd wait at least 3 weeks. They will be more familiar with the tax liabilities of each state and could tell you which scenario they thought would benefit you the most. I thought you could only hunt with 5+1 in MO, but I've never been out with a firearm because the lotteries for the public lands are hard to win. 5+1, 10+1; a magazine doesn't cost that much, or you can buy a limiter for $5 to drop into a 30 rd mag to make it compliant. |
|
Cool, I didn't know you guys had got rid of that requirement. I will add, that I believe MO taxes are lower than AR, and you may be able to lower it some if you live in a rural area, and stay outside of city limits, not sure about that though.
Oh, yeah thanks for all the clothes!
|
|
Quoted:
Cool, I didn't know you guys had got rid of that requirement. I will add, that I believe MO taxes are lower than AR, and you may be able to lower it some if you live in a rural area, and stay outside of city limits, not sure about that though. Oh, yeah thanks for all the clothes! 
You give us an enlightened path around Illinois 
|
|
Quoted:
Cool, I didn't know you guys had got rid of that requirement. I will add, that I believe MO taxes are lower than AR, and you may be able to lower it some if you live in a rural area, and stay outside of city limits, not sure about that though. Oh, yeah thanks for all the clothes! I need to talk to someone in finances about the tax liability. It seems like at least it's a big "?" here and not some sort of landslide. I would honestly like the option to live in either state, depending on where I found the land I wanted at the price I want. Quoted:
I believe Missouri has better CCW laws as well. At least as far as crime/punishment for accidentally carrying in a posted area. Also we have MUCH better alcohol laws. If you enjoy going out to watch football on Sunday you won't in Arkansas. No alcohol sold on Sundays. There are also many "dry" counties in Arkansas. If you like to hike on any public land you must also remember you cannot open carry in Arkansas. I camp down there once a year and that's my biggest complaint. We usually hike all of one day through some rugged hills. It would be much more comfortable for me to be able to open carry rather than conceal. I'm typically not a football kind of guy, and have not had anything alcoholic in a year or so that I can recall. If I want something, I buy it and fridge it. No big deal to me there. I CCW and will CCW as soon as I can get an AR permit. Can you OC on your own property? ________________________________ This land thing...how does that work? Sorry, I have never owned land or a home before. This is my first en-devour, but I know what I want because I grew up living how I want to live, as an adult, albeit in a trailer instead of an ICF house like I plan on building. Do I just allow access to part of the land and someone comes and does their thing and pays me for the right and I get a tax-credit as well? I don't know how I feel about that, or how much of an irritation it would be to do. |
|
land wise, Missouri has more different land types than Arkansas so you'll need to think about what type of land you want as in flat farm land central and northern MO), semi flat//semi hilly with trees(central and east & west MO, or fairly rocky red soil (extreme southern MO and most of northern Arkansas).
You say you work in healthcare. that's a pretty broad statement but let share that Missouri especially St. Louis and KC areas are HUGE in health care. St. Louis is the HQ for Express Scripts (however I do not recommend you work there), and has a large Mercy Medical hospital presence (5 plus campuses), SSM Healthcare another, large hospital org (5 plus campuses), Conventry, United Healthcare/OptumRx, Magellan Health, McKesson, Emdeon, Forrest Pharmacueticals, Centene (US Script), EssenceRx, and a bunch more I'm forgetting. KC off the top of my head has large representation by Argus, Cerner, UHC to name a few. AR has hospital systems I'm sure but they do not appear to have near the health care industry that St. Louis does. |
|
Quoted:
You'll have plenty of time to sort out how you'll use the property. First thing is to find a parcel in your price range. Location is going to be a problem, your criteria is for premium property. Not to argue, as I don't know anything about land, as said above, but I just want to make sure we are on the same page: -20-40 acres -Outside city limits/can shoot any time/hunt on land -Off of a road that has pavement/county maintained -Don't mind having the utility company plant a few poles at my cost to get power to me. -Do not want city water/sewer obviously -Primarily trees -NEEDS hills/rocks -Stream or body of water is a HUGE bonus, (I would buy 20 acres at the same price as 30 acres, if the 20 had a 365 day stream, etc.) but not 100% necessary. So far, this is a good example of somewhat the land I am wanting: http://www.landwatch.com/Madison-County-Arkansas-Land-for-sale/pid/271381714 |
|
Quoted:
land wise, Missouri has more different land types than Arkansas so you'll need to think about what type of land you want as in flat farm land central and northern MO), semi flat//semi hilly with trees(central and east & west MO, or fairly rocky red soil (extreme southern MO and most of northern Arkansas). You say you work in healthcare. that's a pretty broad statement but let share that Missouri especially St. Louis and KC areas are HUGE in health care. St. Louis is the HQ for Express Scripts (however I do not recommend you work there), and has a large Mercy Medical hospital presence (5 plus campuses), SSM Healthcare another, large hospital org (5 plus campuses), Conventry, United Healthcare/OptumRx, Magellan Health, McKesson, Emdeon, Forrest Pharmacueticals, Centene (US Script), EssenceRx, and a bunch more I'm forgetting. KC off the top of my head has large representation by Argus, Cerner, UHC to name a few. AR has hospital systems I'm sure but they do not appear to have near the health care industry that St. Louis does. RN.BSN, I work critical/intermediate care. My current hospital groups intermediate care with critical care (intermediate care will do anything but ventilators/diprovan), but the hospitals I looked at in NW AR grouped intermediate care with the floor (they did not deal with pressors, etc.) I would prefer to stick in the Fayetteville area for work/as my "central town", but am open to live within 45 minutes of work, any direction, and that means that MO is definitely an option as I understand. |
|
Quoted: I thought you could only hunt with 5+1 in MO, but I've never been out with a firearm because the lotteries for the public lands are hard to win. 5+1, 10+1; a magazine doesn't cost that much, or you can buy a limiter for $5 to drop into a 30 rd mag to make it compliant. If you're talking about deer hunting, it's 10+1. Edit; It's on page 15 of the Fall brochure from this past season; "Methods prohibited (in use or in possession) ◾ Self-loading firearms with capacity of more than 11 cartridges in magazine and chamber combined"http://mdc.mo.gov/sites/default/files/resources/2010/03/fdt2012_2.pdf |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
You'll have plenty of time to sort out how you'll use the property. First thing is to find a parcel in your price range. Location is going to be a problem, your criteria is for premium property. Not to argue, as I don't know anything about land, as said above, but I just want to make sure we are on the same page: -20-40 acres -Outside city limits/can shoot any time/hunt on land -Off of a road that has pavement/county maintained -Don't mind having the utility company plant a few poles at my cost to get power to me. -Do not want city water/sewer obviously -Primarily trees -NEEDS hills/rocks -Stream or body of water is a HUGE bonus, (I would buy 20 acres at the same price as 30 acres, if the 20 had a 365 day stream, etc.) but not 100% necessary. So far, this is a good example of somewhat the land I am wanting: http://www.landwatch.com/Madison-County-Arkansas-Land-for-sale/pid/271381714 I'm mostly referring the desire for water frontage. The smaller the parcel, the higher the per acre price. Paved road frontage raises the per acre price. Improvements such as a good fence, power, and a road increase the price. 100% brush and (hopefully, timber) lowers the price, any improved pasture or hay field raises the price. Distance to town affects the price. Intangibles such a million dollar view increase the price. Frontage along a 365 day stream increases the price, and if it's more than ankle deep, it's worth even more. A year round spring increases the price. There's hardly anything nicer than an Ozarks spring, even a little one. If you were to land near Cassville, that would open up great flexibility for moving to a different job in Springfield, Joplin, Monett, Branson, Ozark, Mount Vernon, and so on. That's a great option to hold. Even into Oklahoma or SW Kansas in a pinch. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You'll have plenty of time to sort out how you'll use the property. First thing is to find a parcel in your price range. Location is going to be a problem, your criteria is for premium property. Not to argue, as I don't know anything about land, as said above, but I just want to make sure we are on the same page: -20-40 acres -Outside city limits/can shoot any time/hunt on land -Off of a road that has pavement/county maintained -Don't mind having the utility company plant a few poles at my cost to get power to me. -Do not want city water/sewer obviously -Primarily trees -NEEDS hills/rocks -Stream or body of water is a HUGE bonus, (I would buy 20 acres at the same price as 30 acres, if the 20 had a 365 day stream, etc.) but not 100% necessary. So far, this is a good example of somewhat the land I am wanting: http://www.landwatch.com/Madison-County-Arkansas-Land-for-sale/pid/271381714 I'm mostly referring the desire for water frontage. Nice, highly desired, but a stream 5-10' wide will do. It's not a deal-breaker, but is desired. The smaller the parcel, the higher the per acre price. Yeah, I have seen that. Paved road frontage raises the per acre price. Yeah, That one I really want. If not paved, at least county maintained well. I know when I was up there I did see some very nice crushed rock roads that weren't shabby at all. Improvements such as a good fence, power, and a road increase the price. As long as I can get power to it. Fence isn't a bit deal. 100% brush and (hopefully, timber) lowers the price, any improved pasture or hay field raises the price. Not into pasture, really, so I'm cool with that. Distance to town affects the price. I want to be 30-45 Min from town. I have a feeling that will help a lot, as that area is very "nuclear" and 45m places me far from civilization, as compared to where I live now. Intangibles such a million dollar view increase the price. I'll settle for a $60K view
Frontage along a 365 day stream increases the price, and if it's more than ankle deep, it's worth even more. A year round spring increases the price. There's hardly anything nicer than an Ozarks spring, even a little one. Yeah, I want something I can swim in, ideally. I'm prepared to pay for it if need be at this point. I've thought about it, and it really would cap things off. If you were to land near Cassville, that would open up great flexibility for moving to a different job in Springfield, Joplin, Monett, Branson, Ozark, Mount Vernon, and so on. That's a great option to hold. Even into Oklahoma or SW Kansas in a pinch. My main reason for Fayetteville area is that my two best friends moved there years ago (known them my whole life) and they love it there. I would like to live near some friends again, and on top of that I really like the 75K population. That's perfect. I can get my car properly aligned and buy whatever and have a steady job at a good hospital, but I don't yet have to deal with ghettos and high crime and all that that I'm seeing where I live. Visited Fayetteville a few times and I really do like it. |
| The hospital in Mtn. Home (BRMC), has been growing in leaps and bounds for the last 10 years, its really the only one I would go to around here. Also, in Jonesboro, AR they are building one hell of a new hospital. Now, I'm not trying to talk you into moving to AR (hell, 99% of my sales tax money goes to MO), you go where you want, but thought I'd drop you some more info. You might ask in the AR home town forum for more info on the new hospital. |
|
I live in Neosho MO, about an hour from Fayetteville, When I was in IT, I worked down there a lot and this is what I can tell you, you're talking about McDonald Co MO. It is one of the poorest counties in Missouri, it has the highest rate of meth production in MO an there several places you really don't want to go unarmed at night. That's the bad, but, most of the places are far from the i49 corridor which is where I suppose you would be looking. Because of the issues, the majority of people in Mac county carry and so as long as you watch your Ps and Qs, its not a big deal.
The land here is considerably cheaper than in AR, I know of one parcel for sale there now that is 129 acres with ponds, springs, lots of nice running water, with a few caves and some amazing building sites, and bordered on 2 sides by conservation land. It has been for sale for 2 years for 125k, it's worth it, but there's no money to buy it in the county. It's about midway between Jane and Long View off the beaten path. The closer to AR you get, the higher the land prices. Jane and south and you might as well live in AR. If traffic is a concern, look in AR, during the school year, it's a 20 min add on your drive passing through Bella Vista at rush hour. Taxes are MUCH lower in MO, the sales tax rate alone is 11% in NWA, it's 7 in Mac county. The income tax will vary based on you income, but plan on about 3% more in AR. gun laws are actually MUCH better in MO, AR has an ok CCW, but you can get your butt in a sling much faster there. Disclosure laws are more specific, signs have the force of law, and local pd is not very gun friendly. In Mac county, the PD is very gun friendly and the laws in general are much better. Look at MO 571 and MO 563 for Missouri laws. The "Stand your ground" law for one is better here. In fact it's probably the best in the country. Like I said, I live in the area, so any questions specific to your situation, feel free to pm me. |
|
Quoted:
The hospital in Mtn. Home (BRMC), has been growing in leaps and bounds for the last 10 years, its really the only one I would go to around here. Also, in Jonesboro, AR they are building one hell of a new hospital. Now, I'm not trying to talk you into moving to AR (hell, 99% of my sales tax money goes to MO), you go where you want, but thought I'd drop you some more info. You might ask in the AR home town forum for more info on the new hospital. I have. I visited a few and liked Mercy in Fayetteville. Granted, I only spent about 45 minutes there, but it looked like a pretty good environment on the surface. That's all I know of it thus far. I am going to rent for about 4-6 months before buying land, make sure I like it, then pay the land off in a year or two and then build a house if I am still liking it. |
|
Quoted:
I live in Neosho MO, about an hour from Fayetteville, When I was in IT, I worked down there a lot and this is what I can tell you, you're talking about McDonald Co MO. It is one of the poorest counties in Missouri, it has the highest rate of meth production in MO an there several places you really don't want to go unarmed at night. That's the bad, but, most of the places are far from the i49 corridor which is where I suppose you would be looking. Because of the issues, the majority of people in Mac county carry and so as long as you watch your Ps and Qs, its not a big deal. The land here is considerably cheaper than in AR, I know of one parcel for sale there now that is 129 acres with ponds, springs, lots of nice running water, with a few caves and some amazing building sites, and bordered on 2 sides by conservation land. It has been for sale for 2 years for 125k, it's worth it, but there's no money to buy it in the county. It's about midway between Jane and Long View off the beaten path. The closer to AR you get, the higher the land prices. Jane and south and you might as well live in AR. If traffic is a concern, look in AR, during the school year, it's a 20 min add on your drive passing through Bella Vista at rush hour. Taxes are MUCH lower in MO, the sales tax rate alone is 11% in NWA, it's 7 in Mac county. The income tax will vary based on you income, but plan on about 3% more in AR. gun laws are actually MUCH better in MO, AR has an ok CCW, but you can get your butt in a sling much faster there. Disclosure laws are more specific, signs have the force of law, and local pd is not very gun friendly. In Mac county, the PD is very gun friendly and the laws in general are much better. Look at MO 571 and MO 563 for Missouri laws. The "Stand your ground" law for one is better here. In fact it's probably the best in the country. Like I said, I live in the area, so any questions specific to your situation, feel free to pm me. Thanks a ton! My realtor actually lives in MO, IIRC, and I am seeing why even though he works out of Rogers. I am going to hash this out with them when I get ready to move. I am taking a trip to Fayetteville next month and will try to have lunch with them and talk about hte points you have brought up. |