Posted: 12/18/2012 4:44:55 PM EDT
Wade Gaughran, owner of Wade's Eastside Guns was just on KIRO-7 news holding an AR15. He said " This essentially is the same firearm you would be issued if you joined the Marines or Army." For Fuck's sake.... 
|
|
so do they not both have 16" barrels, direct impingement gas systems, flash hiders, removable magazine, pistol grip and collapsible stock?
Aside from the full/burst control parts, the firearm that you are buying is "essentially" the same as an issued rifle, not "exactly" , but "essentially -(in a fundamental or basic way)" |
|
Quoted:
He is essentially correct - aside from a full auto or burst lower. Which is the essence missing from an AR15. In light of current events, I found him to be a fool to state that. Feel free to differ and spread the news that you agree with his viewpoint. I think he 's trying to drum up more than his currently claimed 500% increase in sales of ARs. |
|
Quoted:
Are you blowing a gasket on purpose? What's the problems with saying that it's essentially the same? Really, explain it out. Then, read what your reply. I'd guess you'd hit 'delete' before you hit 'submit'. Because it's not essentially the same. es·sence (sns) n. 1. The intrinsic or indispensable properties that serve to characterize or identify something. 2. The most important ingredient; the crucial element. 3. The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things. 4. You can look up essential yourself. I'm not blowing a gasket. I was flabbergasted that he would make such a comment. Every lib in Pugetropolis wanting a new AWB that saw him and who is ignorant about firearms will now equate the Newtown killer as having used a machine gun. I find this to be a huge disservice to law abiding gun owners and was shocked when I heard him say it. As I said, are you being obtuse on purpose? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are you blowing a gasket on purpose? What's the problems with saying that it's essentially the same? Really, explain it out. Then, read what your reply. I'd guess you'd hit 'delete' before you hit 'submit'. Because it's not essentially the same. es·sence (sns) n. 1. The intrinsic or indispensable properties that serve to characterize or identify something. 2. The most important ingredient; the crucial element. 3. The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things. 4. You can look up essential yourself. I'm not blowing a gasket. I was flabbergasted that he would make such a comment. Every lib in Pugetropolis wanting a new AWB that saw him and who is ignorant about firearms will now equate the Newtown killer as having used a machine gun. I find this to be a huge disservice to law abiding gun owners and was shocked when I heard him say it. As I said, are you being obtuse on purpose? You know that most media outlets have already beat him to it. Most news anchors and reporters don't know the difference between rifles, they just see and rifle and call it what they think it is. They think that pistols shoot 5 rounds a second and that every rifle is an assault rifle that is full auto capable. |
|
Quoted:
Because it's not essentially the same. es·sence (sns) n. 1. The intrinsic or indispensable properties that serve to characterize or identify something. 2. The most important ingredient; the crucial element. 3. The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things. 4. You can look up essential yourself. I'm not blowing a gasket. I was flabbergasted that he would make such a comment. Every lib in Pugetropolis wanting a new AWB that saw him and who is ignorant about firearms will now equate the Newtown killer as having used a machine gun. I find this to be a huge disservice to law abiding gun owners and was shocked when I heard him say it. As I said, are you being obtuse on purpose? No, they're essentially the same. And, any minor differences go against the 2nd Amendment and even the US Govts position in 1939 that civilian weaponry should reflect that of military weaponry. And, you're not much of a student of these topics if you believe that anything Wade said on KIRO News was going to impact the opinions 'Every lib in Pugetropolis wanting a new AWB'. Their minds are already made up. I think the tactic of 'this AR15 is actually safer and different than an M16' looks like sealawyership to that audience, thinking you're trying to be cute and clever in getting around some law. I think the tactic of 'This is legal, it's constitutional, and keep out of my business' is a better tactic. Change the debate about guns to personal responsibility, mental health care, and societal decline. So, while I'm not obtuse, I do believe you're being naive. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are you blowing a gasket on purpose? What's the problems with saying that it's essentially the same? Really, explain it out. Then, read what your reply. I'd guess you'd hit 'delete' before you hit 'submit'. Because it's not essentially the same. es·sence (sns) n. 1. The intrinsic or indispensable properties that serve to characterize or identify something. 2. The most important ingredient; the crucial element. 3. The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things. 4. You can look up essential yourself. I'm not blowing a gasket. I was flabbergasted that he would make such a comment. Every lib in Pugetropolis wanting a new AWB that saw him and who is ignorant about firearms will now equate the Newtown killer as having used a machine gun. I find this to be a huge disservice to law abiding gun owners and was shocked when I heard him say it. As I said, are you being obtuse on purpose? You know that most media outlets have already beat him to it. Most news anchors and reporters don't know the difference between rifles, they just see and rifle and call it what they think it is. They think that pistols shoot 5 rounds a second and that every rifle is an assault rifle that is full auto capable. I expect that from the ignorant. Not from an FFL who knows better. I can only conclude it was self serving to increase panic buying. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are you blowing a gasket on purpose? What's the problems with saying that it's essentially the same? Really, explain it out. Then, read what your reply. I'd guess you'd hit 'delete' before you hit 'submit'. Because it's not essentially the same. es·sence (sns) n. 1. The intrinsic or indispensable properties that serve to characterize or identify something. 2. The most important ingredient; the crucial element. 3. The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things. 4. You can look up essential yourself. I'm not blowing a gasket. I was flabbergasted that he would make such a comment. Every lib in Pugetropolis wanting a new AWB that saw him and who is ignorant about firearms will now equate the Newtown killer as having used a machine gun. I find this to be a huge disservice to law abiding gun owners and was shocked when I heard him say it. As I said, are you being obtuse on purpose? You know that most media outlets have already beat him to it. Most news anchors and reporters don't know the difference between rifles, they just see and rifle and call it what they think it is. They think that pistols shoot 5 rounds a second and that every rifle is an assault rifle that is full auto capable. I expect that from the ignorant. Not from an FFL who knows better. I can only conclude it was self serving to increase panic buying. Every gun shop, every online retailer in every state is taking advantage of it. They don't go in this business to just sit around, they go into it to make money, like every other business. Look at CTD, they have surefire 100rnd mags at $300 and Pmags were at $60 |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because it's not essentially the same. es·sence (sns) n. 1. The intrinsic or indispensable properties that serve to characterize or identify something. 2. The most important ingredient; the crucial element. 3. The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things. 4. You can look up essential yourself. I'm not blowing a gasket. I was flabbergasted that he would make such a comment. Every lib in Pugetropolis wanting a new AWB that saw him and who is ignorant about firearms will now equate the Newtown killer as having used a machine gun. I find this to be a huge disservice to law abiding gun owners and was shocked when I heard him say it. As I said, are you being obtuse on purpose? No, they're essentially the same. And, any minor differences go against the 2nd Amendment and even the US Govts position in 1939 that civilian weaponry should reflect that of military weaponry. And, you're not much of a student of these topics if you believe that anything Wade said on KIRO News was going to impact the opinions 'Every lib in Pugetropolis wanting a new AWB'. Their minds are already made up. I think the tactic of 'this AR15 is actually safer and different than an M16' looks like sealawyership to that audience, thinking you're trying to be cute and clever in getting around some law. I think the tactic of 'This is legal, it's constitutional, and keep out of my business' is a better tactic. Change the debate about guns to personal responsibility, mental health care, and societal decline. So, while I'm not obtuse, I do believe you're being naive. I stand by my belief that the AR 15 does not have the essence of a machine gun. I do agree with you on where the debate needs to go. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because it's not essentially the same. es·sence (sns) n. 1. The intrinsic or indispensable properties that serve to characterize or identify something. 2. The most important ingredient; the crucial element. 3. The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things. 4. You can look up essential yourself. I'm not blowing a gasket. I was flabbergasted that he would make such a comment. Every lib in Pugetropolis wanting a new AWB that saw him and who is ignorant about firearms will now equate the Newtown killer as having used a machine gun. I find this to be a huge disservice to law abiding gun owners and was shocked when I heard him say it. As I said, are you being obtuse on purpose? No, they're essentially the same. And, any minor differences go against the 2nd Amendment and even the US Govts position in 1939 that civilian weaponry should reflect that of military weaponry. And, you're not much of a student of these topics if you believe that anything Wade said on KIRO News was going to impact the opinions 'Every lib in Pugetropolis wanting a new AWB'. Their minds are already made up. I think the tactic of 'this AR15 is actually safer and different than an M16' looks like sealawyership to that audience, thinking you're trying to be cute and clever in getting around some law. I think the tactic of 'This is legal, it's constitutional, and keep out of my business' is a better tactic. Change the debate about guns to personal responsibility, mental health care, and societal decline. So, while I'm not obtuse, I do believe you're being naive. I stand by my belief that the AR 15 does not have the essence of a machine gun. I do agree with you on where the debate needs to go. An AR15 does not have the essence of a machine gun. But an AR15 and the M4 do have the same intrinsic and indispensable properties that serve to characterize it and distinguish it from other rifles |
|
Quoted:
I stand by my belief that the AR 15 does not have the essence of a machine gun. I'll disagree with you there, then. The basic difference is 1.5" of barrel and the fire control. You would then probably say that a GMC Yukon with a manual transmission does not have the essence of a GMC Yukon XL with an automatic transmission. The rest of the world would probably disagree. What is really terrible about your line of thinking is how that'll be used against us at some later date. Similar to 1994. If the AR15 is already 'distinctly different' from the M16, and it's still soooo lethal, well, nothing even resembling it can be allowed. I'd prefer to let the gun grabbers erroneously define what is evil, so when they write their legislation they fuck it up, just like in 1994 when the post ban guns were 'essentially' the same as their preban counterparts (even thought the difference between pre and post ARs was greater than the difference between ARs and M16s). So, don't blow a gasket over this kind of stuff. Wade has done way more to advance the RKBA than 99% of gun owners. We don't know what kind of selective editing the TV crew did with his interview, and to assume he's doing something maliciously is just unsupported. If the quote of Wade you're wound up about is the worst thing they could cut out of an interview with a gun owner, I'd say he did pretty damn good all while being factual. |
|
you also have to imagine that even if they interviewed someone else, say Lance over at WCA, he would have probably said the same thing and they would cut it just the same crappy way that they did.
Would you blow up then if you heard Lance say it? or maybe someone else at another shop? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I stand by my belief that the AR 15 does not have the essence of a machine gun. I'll disagree with you there, then. The basic difference is 1.5" of barrel and the fire control. You would then probably say that a GMC Yukon with a manual transmission does not have the essence of a GMC Yukon XL with an automatic transmission. The rest of the world would probably disagree. What is really terrible about your line of thinking is how that'll be used against us at some later date. Similar to 1994. If the AR15 is already 'distinctly different' from the M16, and it's still soooo lethal, well, nothing even resembling it can be allowed. I'd prefer to let the gun grabbers erroneously define what is evil, so when they write their legislation they fuck it up, just like in 1994 when the post ban guns were 'essentially' the same as their preban counterparts (even thought the difference between pre and post ARs was greater than the difference between ARs and M16s). So, don't blow a gasket over this kind of stuff. Wade has done way more to advance the RKBA than 99% of gun owners. We don't know what kind of selective editing the TV crew did with his interview, and to assume he's doing something maliciously is just unsupported. If the quote of Wade you're wound up about is the worst thing they could cut out of an interview with a gun owner, I'd say he did pretty damn good all while being factual. The "gun gabbers" will not be satisfied with passing another fluff type 1994 AWB, which for all intents and purposes was based on cosmetics. I'm sure they've learned and any sunset date on more restrictive laws they want will be out the window also if they succeed. Just hope they pass legislation they "fuck up"? That's a misguided stance to take. My line of thinking is that we need to educate the uninformed with reason, else we very likely come out of this with more restrictive laws. Not let firearm myths continue to grow. The hate for so called assault weapons is based on fear, misconceptions and feelings. The bigger challenge ahead now though, is how to keep firearms out of the hands of the mentally unstable and ending target rich gun free zones. There was no selective editing. I replayed the clip several times and got his quote. I've never set foot in Wade's and have no ax to grind against him personally. Larry at WCA? never heard of him. |
|
I agree that they'll be a lot more careful in crafting new legislation.
I'm not sure how they'd go about it again, but I doubt it'll be feature defined. But if it is feature defined, I'd prefer they don't understand the features. But, I'm not sure how you'd know about the editing by watching what they showed you. How much of what he said hit the editing room floor? What was said before his commentary, what questions, what was the context? Those things kinda matter to the extent that I don't trust the media to shine an honest light in gun news reporting. Even at that, what he said isn't a big deal to me for the reasons I outlined previously. And, I'm not sure why you were flabbergasted, even after you explained why. I don't believe you honestly thought Wade was going to win the hearts and minds of the 'libs' looking for a new AWB. |
|
In a nut shell, I found it suprisingly odd and disconcerting that an FFL, who should know better, would make such an erroneous statement that plays into the hand of those who wish to curb our rights. There was no context twisted, no break in the scene. He simply said what he said. If he was somhow set up by he news crew off camera before he spoke, he played right into their hands.
"I don't believe you honestly thought Wade was going to win the hearts and minds of the 'libs' looking for a new AWB." Not sure what you mean. I simply thought he did a disservice to gunowners who will be battling gun grabbers that don't need to hear any more falsehoods about "assault weapons". |
|
Quoted: Wade Gaughran, owner of Wade's Eastside Guns was just on KIRO-7 news holding an AR15. He said " This essentially is the same firearm you would be issued if you joined the Marines or Army." For Fuck's sake.... I joined the Army 30 some years ago. My Safe versus basic training. 20" Government profile vs. GM Hydramatic Manual of Arms parade drills with both? check, check Weapons qual- 25M, 50M, 100M, 200M, 300M pop up targets? check & check What we did most of- cleaning? FA parts/ anything in the lower receiver was off limits per issued TM/FM. All else same identical for A1/A2 handguards. I will go with his statement being 100% accurate. Key word is "essentially". You may not like his words, but he was truthful. I bet money that was an edit that got that statement. |
|
Quoted: snip I stand by my belief that the AR 15 does not have the essence of a machine gun. I do agree with you on where the debate needs to go. I agree, M-16's in the military are not machine guns. They are not belt fed, or intended really as support by fire weapons. They are called rifles in the military, just like AR-15's are called rifles in the civilian world. |
|
Quoted: you also have to imagine that even if they interviewed someone else, say Lance over at WCA, he would have probably said the same thing and they would cut it just the same crappy way that they did. Would you blow up then if you heard Lance say it? or maybe someone else at another shop? Having been around Lance occasionally, and talking to him briefly more than a few times, and associating with people he knows and talks to, I do not think he would say something like that. Given the background and history of the range during it's formation, I'm SURE he's well versed in media talking points. I.E. use very brief to the point statements, don't get dragged off track, don't answer questions in a way that can be turned around quoted out of text, so on and so one. IMHO he would (or at least I would) say something along the lines of "The AR-15 is fundamentally different from military rifles, in how many rounds it can fire per trigger pull" or somehting like that. Worst comes to worst you don't give them anything juicy and they just don't air or quote anything. |
|
Quoted: In a nut shell, I found it suprisingly odd and disconcerting that an FFL, who should know better, would make such an erroneous statement that plays into the hand of those who wish to curb our rights. There was no context twisted, no break in the scene. He simply said what he said. If he was somhow set up by he news crew off camera before he spoke, he played right into their hands. "I don't believe you honestly thought Wade was going to win the hearts and minds of the 'libs' looking for a new AWB." Not sure what you mean. I simply thought he did a disservice to gunowners who will be battling gun grabbers that don't need to hear any more falsehoods about "assault weapons". Have you ever met the guy? |
|
No. nor been in his shop.
I've explained my POV and why I was suprised by what he said. In the long run, it won't make a hill of beans. IMO, he re-inforced misconceptions about a legal semi auto rifle that resembles a military rifle cosmetically. He very well may have been played by the media. |