Posted: 9/13/2006 1:42:57 PM EDT
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I read that installing this conversion kit in lieu of your slide constitutes a violation of the law. Is that true? Which law/provision is violated? Anyone ever used one (out of state, of course)? Link to Mech-Tech web site |
It appears to make your pistol into a rifle. Specifically a semi-auto centerfire rifle with a pistol grip and detachable magaize. Pretty much the defenition of an assault rifle here. |
| So, even though the receiver is a pistol, listed on the DOJ web site as an approved pistol, somehow temporarily attaching this upper turns it into a rifle and specifically, an assault weapon. Do I understand you correctly? Why isn't it just considered a pistol with a long barrel? |
Does it look like a pistol with a long barrel? It sure doesn't look anything like a pistol to me, and I'm not even with the DoJ. It has a stock; that makes it a long gun. Nothing new here. Those old wooden stock holsters for pistols are also illegal because attaching a stock to a pistol makes it: a) An assault weapon in California; and b) A short barrel rifle anywhere else. |
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As per 12276.1, a semiautomatic centerfire rifle cannot have a pistol grip and detachable magazine. The fact that on a MechTech conversion the pistol grip and magwell are combined is irrelevant. You can, though, possess MechTech CCU kit in California separately from your 1911 or Glock. 'Constructive possession' concepts do not apply to CA assault weapon features. Just assemble it to your 1911 when you're outside CA. The law is strange, indeed.... .... Didja know an M1A (without flash hider, of course) is perfectly legal using a hicap magazine (providing you had the mag legally, before 2000) -- but that if you fix that same magazine to the M1A (i.e., screwed down), you've created an assault weapon? Yup. No kidding. It violates one of the alternate definitions of a generic assault weapon in 12276.1, a semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a magazine holding more than 10 rounds. Bill Wiese San Jose CA |
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See the problem is that once you put the stock on it, it becomes an SBR as per the definition of the BATFE; which would be a major federal felony unless you put the 16" barrel on it and made the overall length over 28". Once you did that though, it becomes classified as a rifle, and since it is a rifle with pistol grip and removable magazine, as already pointed out, it's an assault weapon and a felony by state law. Now if you purchased the kit and chopped the stock off, all you would have is a long barreled pistol, and I don't see why that would not be legal, but that would defeat the whole purpose of the kit which is to turn your pistol into a carbine. I've always though those kits were more of a novelty item than anything else. I can see having one as a SHTF trunk accessory if you CCW with a pistol and need a more versatile weapon in case you needed to hunt with it, but as an actual weapon, there are much better and cheaper options available. |
Okay, I got it. Once installed it is an assault weapon. I just read about two people who have them and they both said it is a good, accurate shooter. What are the "...much better and cheaper options..." you refer to? |
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The Kel-Tec SU-16 series comes to mind; they are magazine fed semi-autos that are lightweight, compact, a better caliber, and fold in half for easy storage and run ~$500 where as that unit would cost the price of the conversion (over $300) and the cheapest 1911 I have seen ($300) for a subpar lower power rifle that requires assembly. If you're just looking for something fun for plinking, then a rimfire is the way to go as you could have all the evil features you wanted for cheaper and you could shoot 500 rounds for $8 instead of $80. A Ruger 10/22 magnum could be had for less than $400, and a normal 10/22 can be had for $200. Add in all the aftermarket barrels, stocks, conversions, etc and you could have a much funner weapon for half the price. Don't get me wrong, it is a unique firearm (accessory) that some people will love, but to me it just seems like a big boy toy than a need to have item. ETA: I just checked, and it's $532.65 for the unit with all the bells and whistles. At that price you could pick up primary weapon like the Kel-Tec, Mini-14/20, etc and save your side arm for backup, unless you don't have the handgun yet, at which point you can add another $600 to that total, and at that price range I would rather get an M1A, or a couple Garands, Cali-FAL, PTR-91, etc. |
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Other legal 9mm carbine options in CA are the Ruger PC9(uses Ruger 9mm pistol mags) and a 9mm carbine built on a Off-List AR lower to SB-23 compliant specs(fixed 10 round mag or "gripless+zero SB-23 features". Also, there's the Marlin Camp 9(uses S&W 9mm mags) and the Camp 45(uses 1911 mags), both out of production, but you may find on the used market. I shot a Marlin Camp 45 a few week ago and it was nice! I read that stronger recoil springs are recommend due to stocks breaking. Yet another option is a HK-94 clone with a fixed 10 round mag or "gripless". Could be challenging to load a fixed mag version though. |
Nope, still an assault weapon, pistol with a second handgrip or barrel shroud. 
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What are you looking for? If you want a carbine that chambers handgun ammunition, the Ruger Police Carbines come to mind. They even share magazines with Ruger's pistols. Marlin had or has a handgun caliber carbine as well. |
I had a PC 9. A little heavy, but accurate and reliable. That or the PC 40 would be my choice for a pistol cal. rifle. In fact, I think the Rugers are only $100 more than the Mech-tech upper. |
Call MechTech and tell them you live in Cali..... They will answer your questions... Your not the first californian to inquire.... .... |
Some distributors that stock these units won't even ship them to CA. Like we're surprised about that I'll do more research, and I could be wrong, but I thought that there were certain models of curio and relic pistols such as a Luger artillery model and some broomhandle Mausers that use detachable shoulder stocks that were exempt from the NFA law that defines a short barreled rifle.
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There are a very few SBRs that fall outside the realm of the registration/tax stamp when they are in original condition. Many of these are older lever guns that fall in the 12-14" range, but there are a few others and the Luger/Mausers are one of them. Assuming it is in original condition, they do fall outside the NFA laws and do not need to be registered (as I understand it). The models are VERY specific (many even going as far as stating serial numbers) and it MUST be original. If the firearm was altered in any way, or if you simply found an original stock and have a Luger/Mauser that can accept it, but wasn't issued with one, then it would still be manufacturing an SBR and would break NFA rules. I'm not entirely sure how these Non-NFA SBRs work in California, since California has it's own laws on SBRs. It could be just like our AW laws, where even though it's not a federal crime, it would still be a state SBR felony. I'm not sure, if you're interested in it you should look into it more. ***AGAIN, THIS IS HOW I UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE READ AND IT COULD BE WRONG. CONTACT BOTH THE ATF AND CALIFORNIA DOJ BEFORE ACQUIRING ANY FIREARM WHOSE LEGALITY IS QUESTIONABLE*** |
Maybe it's me, but I don't see a barrel shroud or pistol grip on this picture of the upper:  Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like the barrel is completely exposed except where it connects to the receiver itself. It's not threaded in like a Luger, but more like bolted/pinned in like an AK barrel. |
We were talking in regards to removing the buttstock and using the conversion as a way of extending the barrel of your pistol, not as a rifle component. |
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(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel. I'd say the part just forward of the spring housing of that glock, the part one would normally use to hold the rifle (pretend its a handgaurd on an AR) is a "shroud". Since it doesn't move, its not a slide. |
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Why don't you just call MechTech.... Barrel shroud or not...P-grip or not or a removable mag is not the issue.. Look at the Hi-Point carbine... Looks the same to me..... Long 16in barrel....P-grip....Removable magazine... I belive the issue is ,that it is a Pistol lower being converted to a carbine. 2 for one ....that is what Cali has an issue with????? But BATFE does not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
 Neoweird and I were discussing if this could be made into a "long barreled pistol". He thinks it could be legal, I think not. We already know this conversion would definately be an AW if installed on a 1911 frame. |
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So.... Nobody has even bothered to contact the manufacture???? Instead you just armchair lawyer it....No offense meant...But...If the chair fits. This is from their web site. Legal Alert: This product for sale to California dealers under limited conditions only. Although the product of itself is legal, the resulting combination with a pistol frame becomes illegal under California law. Please contact Mech-Tech for details relative to dealer sales in CA. At this time we know of no other states where the combination is not legal but we caution everyone to become aware of relative state and local laws. legal warning It sounds like to ME that yes its legal...but then again,,,in what configuration. and WHAT LIMITED condition...... LE only???? Hope someone calls them... Then again .......I might.....My curiosity has been peaked. OK....Time to go back to normal mode....NAHHH ArmChairing is better..... |
Thank you for returning the topic back to post one... It's already been discussed WHY this product is legal to own, and WHY it would be illegal to install on a pistol frame. That's fairly easy information to get without calling anyone. The question currently under debate is whether or not the barreled upper sans the buttstock is still legal to install on a pistol frame. What I was trying to point out is that the portion of the 'receiver' that you hold onto is where the barrel is attached to the receiver, similar to a Ruger MK series or Mac series pistols (both legal as long as they conform to AW laws). The barrel ends, however there is a portion of the barrel that passes into the receiver as a form of attaching it. The Ruger MK series is a rimfire, yet about an inch of the barrel is covered by the receiver. One thing to note is that it would appear that the portion of the upper that is in question is part of the receiver and not a seperate add on item. Think of the Mac series; the barrel in some cases is more in the receiver than out, yet it's not a shroud. I believe the shroud would have to be seperate, like the handguards on an AR pistol, Tec style pistol, the 1919 rifle. It's a seperate item that is added on to serve the sole purpose of preventing burns, unlike this conversion where it is the part that holds the barrel to the receiver. Now that I look closer though, it looks to be a different color, but it still looks like one piece; maybe a paint job for looks? Either way, if it can be removed, then you could remove it and be done with the whole debate of it being on there or not and still have a longer barreled pistol than factory. |
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I thought I'd add on to the 'cheaper alternative' section... www.rhinelandarms.com/ You can buy their .45 conversion kit and then buy the rifle (they go pretty cheap I believe), and have yourself a 'plinker' or hopefully an accurate arm. |