[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Mid-Range CSR Scope (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/9/2011 5:02:49 AM EDT
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I'm in the process of getting a second CSR rifle (an AUG); mainly because a) I like guns, and b) I can
What I haven't decided yet, is what glass to mount on it. I want a 1-4 mag (around x24mm) type scope - it's either that or a second hand ACOG I've already got an S & B short dot on my AR (which is and will remain my main gun) and I can't justify spending another grand on a scope for a back up rifle. However, the flip side is that I am not going to stick utter crap on it. I'm considering mid-range brands like Burris and Viper, what are peoples experiences and opinions (other than, "they're crap") and are there any other brands (and models) that are worth considering? |
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Might have a problem with the Vortex as the "official Importers" only have one in stock and aren't expecting any more till the end of Jan, due to their popularity in the good old' US of A.
I said have, I should've said had....as I've just bought it and become an "official dealer" with dealer pack to follow 
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3 as of last week. Well there's a thing, you live in the grim north, I live in the beautiful south. Here in the beautiful south we shoot something called CSR, and in this CSR there are several classes. One of these classes in our CSR is limited to 4.5x power scopes, and a lot of the men down here are real men who aren't afraid to compete with 4x scopes...and do very well with them. They also don't use bipods and like heavy (although not too heavy) triggers. You in the grim north are faced with a different set of circumstances. Firstly, the men aren't really men. Barnsley is the gay capital of Britain. You all have chips on your shoulders and try to enforce the north/south divide, and can't shoot with anything but a featherweight trigger, a bipod and the Hubble telescope on their lightweight triggered, heavy barreled, bipod infested and overly opticifilated guns....yet you still have the audacity to call us southern shandy drinkers and southern Jessie's, thinking those AR actually insults we are bothered about. No, I think your 1-4x24 market will be confined to northern Walts and .22 Tacticool wannabe's At here in the beautiful south, on our landscaped rolling plains of Bisley they will actually get used
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Ahhhhh Bisley....... http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt289/threedi/gomorrah.jpg Century Range I think? Could be the 100 yd firing point ... but those are clearly northerners (coz they're so hard that the cold doesn't affect them) 
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Quoted: Quoted: Ahhhhh Bisley....... http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt289/threedi/gomorrah.jpg Century Range I think? Could be the 100 yd firing point ... but those are clearly northerners (coz they're so hard that the cold doesn't affect them) Nah, definately from Brighton those two and it's only an hour away  |
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3 as of last week. Well there's a thing, you live in the grim north, I live in the beautiful south. Here in the beautiful south we shoot something called CSR, and in this CSR there are several classes. One of these classes in our CSR is limited to 4.5x power scopes, and a lot of the men down here are real men who aren't afraid to compete with 4x scopes...and do very well with them. They also don't use bipods and like heavy (although not too heavy) triggers. You in the grim north are faced with a different set of circumstances. Firstly, the men aren't really men. Barnsley is the gay capital of Britain. You all have chips on your shoulders and try to enforce the north/south divide, and can't shoot with anything but a featherweight trigger, a bipod and the Hubble telescope on their lightweight triggered, heavy barreled, bipod infested and overly opticifilated guns....yet you still have the audacity to call us southern shandy drinkers and southern Jessie's, thinking those AR actually insults we are bothered about. No, I think your 1-4x24 market will be confined to northern Walts and .22 Tacticool wannabe's At here in the beautiful south, on our landscaped rolling plains of Bisley they will actually get used 
 Give us a kiss
you do realise there is a strong northern contingent coming down on the 7th to kick ass , and drink beer like bastards, dont you ?
My scope is a 2.5 power...... |
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3 as of last week. Well there's a thing, you live in the grim north, I live in the beautiful south. Here in the beautiful south we shoot something called CSR, and in this CSR there are several classes. One of these classes in our CSR is limited to 4.5x power scopes, and a lot of the men down here are real men who aren't afraid to compete with 4x scopes...and do very well with them. They also don't use bipods and like heavy (although not too heavy) triggers. You in the grim north are faced with a different set of circumstances. Firstly, the men aren't really men. Barnsley is the gay capital of Britain. You all have chips on your shoulders and try to enforce the north/south divide, and can't shoot with anything but a featherweight trigger, a bipod and the Hubble telescope on their lightweight triggered, heavy barreled, bipod infested and overly opticifilated guns....yet you still have the audacity to call us southern shandy drinkers and southern Jessie's, thinking those AR actually insults we are bothered about. No, I think your 1-4x24 market will be confined to northern Walts and .22 Tacticool wannabe's At here in the beautiful south, on our landscaped rolling plains of Bisley they will actually get used
Give us a kiss
you do realise there is a strong northern contingent coming down on the 7th to kick ass , and drink beer like bastards, dont you ?
My scope is a 2.5 power...... I'm only coming for the beer, with my 13 year old AR, 13 year old trigger and barrel, and what are these bipod things you talk about, I just hope the shortdot is up to the job 
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3 as of last week. Well there's a thing, you live in the grim north, I live in the beautiful south. Here in the beautiful south we shoot something called CSR, and in this CSR there are several classes. One of these classes in our CSR is limited to 4.5x power scopes, and a lot of the men down here are real men who aren't afraid to compete with 4x scopes...and do very well with them. They also don't use bipods and like heavy (although not too heavy) triggers. You in the grim north are faced with a different set of circumstances. Firstly, the men aren't really men. Barnsley is the gay capital of Britain. You all have chips on your shoulders and try to enforce the north/south divide, and can't shoot with anything but a featherweight trigger, a bipod and the Hubble telescope on their lightweight triggered, heavy barreled, bipod infested and overly opticifilated guns....yet you still have the audacity to call us southern shandy drinkers and southern Jessie's, thinking those AR actually insults we are bothered about. No, I think your 1-4x24 market will be confined to northern Walts and .22 Tacticool wannabe's At here in the beautiful south, on our landscaped rolling plains of Bisley they will actually get used
Give us a kiss
you do realise there is a strong northern contingent coming down on the 7th to kick ass , and drink beer like bastards, dont you ?
My scope is a 2.5 power...... I'm only coming for the beer, with my 13 year old AR, 13 year old trigger and barrel, and what are these bipod things you talk about, I just hope the shortdot is up to the job 13 year old barrel? I like the sound of that, how many rounds do you reckon it's shot? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nah, definately from Brighton those two and it's only an hour away Slightly worrying that you can identify where a young boy is from, just by looking at a picture... Clearly friends of his..... Nope, never seen them before Anyway, you've got some nerve eh, Sonny Jim, after being caught on camera mincing around Century sporting a lil' red dress..??  |
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Nah, definately from Brighton those two and it's only an hour away
Slightly worrying that you can identify where a young boy is from, just by looking at a picture... Clearly friends of his..... Nope, never seen them before
Anyway, you've got some nerve eh, Sonny Jim, after being caught on camera mincing around Century sporting a lil' red dress..?? http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01560/peppaPig2_1560500a.jpg Nah....This is Century Range
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Nah, definately from Brighton those two and it's only an hour away
Slightly worrying that you can identify where a young boy is from, just by looking at a picture... Clearly friends of his..... Nope, never seen them before
Anyway, you've got some nerve eh, Sonny Jim, after being caught on camera mincing around Century sporting a lil' red dress..?? http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01560/peppaPig2_1560500a.jpg Nah....This is Century Range
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/nokiapics/PeppaPig_EBig.jpg
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Nah, definately from Brighton those two and it's only an hour away
Slightly worrying that you can identify where a young boy is from, just by looking at a picture... Clearly friends of his..... Nope, never seen them before
Anyway, you've got some nerve eh, Sonny Jim, after being caught on camera mincing around Century sporting a lil' red dress..?? http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01560/peppaPig2_1560500a.jpg Why do you have pictures of my children......
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nah, definately from Brighton those two and it's only an hour away Slightly worrying that you can identify where a young boy is from, just by looking at a picture... Clearly friends of his..... Nope, never seen them before Anyway, you've got some nerve eh, Sonny Jim, after being caught on camera mincing around Century sporting a lil' red dress..?? http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01560/peppaPig2_1560500a.jpg Why do you have pictures of my children...... Touche |
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Getting away from the man-love and back on topic...
Everyone's favourite auction site are offering Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 for £360 (plus whatever you get stung for import duty), whilst Burris Fullfield 1-4X24 Tac 30s are around £220 (plus postie's commission) Has anyone used a Viper on an AR who could give an opinion as to whether it's worth the extra? |
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3 as of last week. Well there's a thing, you live in the grim north, I live in the beautiful south. Here in the beautiful south we shoot something called CSR, and in this CSR there are several classes. One of these classes in our CSR is limited to 4.5x power scopes, and a lot of the men down here are real men who aren't afraid to compete with 4x scopes...and do very well with them. They also don't use bipods and like heavy (although not too heavy) triggers. You in the grim north are faced with a different set of circumstances. Firstly, the men aren't really men. Barnsley is the gay capital of Britain. You all have chips on your shoulders and try to enforce the north/south divide, and can't shoot with anything but a featherweight trigger, a bipod and the Hubble telescope on their lightweight triggered, heavy barreled, bipod infested and overly opticifilated guns....yet you still have the audacity to call us southern shandy drinkers and southern Jessie's, thinking those AR actually insults we are bothered about. No, I think your 1-4x24 market will be confined to northern Walts and .22 Tacticool wannabe's At here in the beautiful south, on our landscaped rolling plains of Bisley they will actually get used
Give us a kiss
you do realise there is a strong northern contingent coming down on the 7th to kick ass , and drink beer like bastards, dont you ?
My scope is a 2.5 power...... I'm only coming for the beer, with my 13 year old AR, 13 year old trigger and barrel, and what are these bipod things you talk about, I just hope the shortdot is up to the job 13 year old barrel? I like the sound of that, how many rounds do you reckon it's shot? 10000+, it really is due for rebarreling, I just can't bring myself to do it, when I bought it new RG could be had for 9 quid x 100 
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Getting away from the man-love and back on topic... Everyone's favourite auction site are offering Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 for £360 (plus whatever you get stung for import duty), whilst Burris Fullfield 1-4X24 Tac 30s are around £220 (plus postie's commission) Has anyone used a Viper on an AR who could give an opinion as to whether it's worth the extra? Have you had a look at Millet compacts, well worth a look Matt, I had one on the FAL for a while. |
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I've got a Hawke Endurance 1.25-4.5x24 - it's had good reviews and I'm very happy with it. Not as nice as a Vortex, but half the price and no problem getting hold of one.
The turrets are covered, but take the covers off and the turrets are numbered and 25 MOA per turn, so single turn out to 600 on a 223 (on the other hand the Vortex has a zero stop of sorts as well as markings per revolution too). I've not box tested it or anything, but the movement has been totally reliable so far. It's fine optically, nice simple reticule. The downside is that the turret position marker is basically just a dent and doesn't even look like it's in the middle, also the illumination contacts are a bit dodgy. Review here: http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=63:hawke-endurance30&catid=4:rifle-scope-reviews&Itemid=4 |
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I've got a Hawke Endurance 1.25-4.5x24 - it's had good reviews and I'm very happy with it. The downside is that the turret position marker is basically just a dent and doesn't even look like it's in the middle, also the illumination contacts are a bit dodgy. So you're happy with it but its a bit dodgy? |
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I've got a Hawke Endurance 1.25-4.5x24 - it's had good reviews and I'm very happy with it. The downside is that the turret position marker is basically just a dent and doesn't even look like it's in the middle, also the illumination contacts are a bit dodgy. So you're happy with it but its a bit dodgy? Illumination is not something I need on a target scope, besides which the problem is not that bad. |
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I've got a Hawke Endurance 1.25-4.5x24 - it's had good reviews and I'm very happy with it. Not as nice as a Vortex, but half the price and no problem getting hold of one. The turrets are covered, but take the covers off and the turrets are numbered and 25 MOA per turn, so single turn out to 600 on a 223 (on the other hand the Vortex has a zero stop of sorts as well as markings per revolution too). I've not box tested it or anything, but the movement has been totally reliable so far. It's fine optically, nice simple reticule. The downside is that the turret position marker is basically just a dent and doesn't even look like it's in the middle, also the illumination contacts are a bit dodgy. Review here: http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=63:hawke-endurance30&catid=4:rifle-scope-reviews&Itemid=4 +1 for the Hawke. I have one on my .22 AR, it's perfectly good for that. I have tried it at 100 yards on my.223, I thought it was OK and will try it again at a longer range. I have not noticed a problem with illumination, but as pointed out it's not a problem on a range day. If it's OK at 300 I may well get another, my other AR scope is a 6 - 24 Bushnell so no good for CSR. A S&B Short Dot would be nice but the price..... 
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I've fitted a 1.25-4.5 X 24 Hawke on my FAL carbine, I'll see how I get on with it tomorrow. If it's OK I think it'll stay on there. I would think that the FAL will destroy your scope in less than one season of CSR given the high round count Who said I'd be doing a full season? I'll just have to see how I get on in January. If it's as addictive as I think it might be, and the scope's not up to the job, I'll obviously have to get something else. The Hawke didn't cost me anything, so it's not a problem if it fails. It might not survive tomorrow for all i know, but I've not had a problem with Hawke stuff before. |
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Hawke seem to have improved. Many shooters spend the money on the rifle, fitting scopes such as BSA and Hawke to them. I honestly don't often see issues with the Hawke optics on .308 Win/7.62X51mm. My experience of Hawke products was many years ago, and not very positive.
Anyway, I eventually fitted a SUSAT to the AUG. It worked out cheaply in comparison to many other options, but you need luck on your side to source them at a good price. It has a finger-adjustable elevation drum (to 600m), but since I've been stuck between 100m to 300m for a while, I haven't been able to check how much variation its adjustments exhibit when compensating for all the variables of non-issue rifle and ammunition. Would one be of interest to you? You're more than welcome to have a look at it during the January shoot, or I can take a few photos of it to post here, and explain a bit more about it. |
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Hawke seem to have improved. Many shooters spend the money on the rifle, fitting scopes such as BSA and Hawke to them. I honestly don't often see issues with the Hawke optics on .308 Win/7.62X51mm. My experience of Hawke products was many years ago, and not very positive. Anyway, I eventually fitted a SUSAT to the AUG. It worked out cheaply in comparison to many other options, but you need luck on your side to source them at a good price. It has a finger-adjustable elevation drum (to 600m), but since I've been stuck between 100m to 300m for a while, I haven't been able to check how much variation its adjustments exhibit when compensating for all the variables of non-issue rifle and ammunition. Would one be of interest to you? You're more than welcome to have a look at it during the January shoot, or I can take a few photos of it to post here, and explain a bit more about it. Will probably go with a low mag scope rather than a combat optic - but a couple of pictures would be interesting and would definitely be good to have a chat about AUGs at the Jan CSR |
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Will probably go with a low mag scope rather than a combat optic - but a couple of pictures would be interesting and would definitely be good to have a chat about AUGs at the Jan CSR OK. I'll be at Bisley tomorrow, so once home I'll photo it. The rail they ship with is a standard A2 which fits on a special rail designed for the factory sight. There are better choices out there for conventional optics, but you should be OK, provided you don't fit something with a huge objective lens. The problem with them for something like CSR is the L/H cocking. Difficult to cock with a sling wrapped around your arm. The other problem is many accessories have been developed by US manufacturers and aren't exported here. The only accessories I've seen retailed in the UK are the trigger-tamer, also Low Mill will fit a small extension to the underside of the cocking-handle. Frankly I didn't think the trigger-tamer did much for the trigger, plus they seemed expensive in comparison to US retail price. Apparently the Neu-Trigger is better. Not sure either come under export regulations due to sub-$100 price. The best upgrade is the Ratworx trigger unit, but obviously UK availability isn't existent. Somebody here mentioned R/H cocking conversions. No extra details were forthcoming. I must've mistook the name of the gunsmith (Old Bob?) and phoned SGC (they don't work on the AUG). That would really be a useful upgrade. Other slight improvements in this area would be the extended cocking-handles (America again). I'm thinking a detectable bar that fitted to the underside of the handle might be useful, like Low Mill do, but longer. Another good upgrade, thankfully from Europe this time, would be the Sporthandschutz (sport for-end or handguard). Availability on them seems crap, but they are around in Germany. A target-sling would actually be attachable with that, or a bipod. The American rail systems are more designed for attaching lights or other tactical gizmos. They aren't sold with the complete detachable barrel system. I suspect they are the same in this respect to the USR, a ban-era A2 AUG that was sold in America briefly, also lacking the complete detachable barrel parts. You can remove a USR barrel as they only lack the external button. The parts to fit the button are quite cheap, but they are only sold in America to my knowledge (again). Sportsman might be able to order them as they also handle S5 AUGs. It looks like it would be worth doing for better access to certain areas that might collect debris. Oh, and there is something out there called a NATO stock. Makes them compatible with STANAG magazines. Factory magazines from Sportsman are £50 each, so it would be a good investment. Unfortunately these only seem to be retailed in America (and again)! You can get cheap Austrian surplus magazines from Austrian milsurp shops, and they do ship to England. I bought three factory new mags (30rnd) for £50 that somebody had ordered from Europe, but have no idea where he bought them. That about covers my useful knowledge of them. They're a very good rifle, but Steyr understandably didn't design the UK version in a fashion that suited well. The A3 is being reintroduced in America, so I hope that sporting development of them will continue. |
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Yes but our Caledonian friend already has a 6-24 scope on his rifle. Therefore there is nothing stopping him taking part with the kit he already has I have just realised this, I was focussed on the 4.5x service optic rule when I realised that my trigger is too light for service optic so I will be in practical optic anyway. No need to buy another scope in that case, but I'm also stuffed for Any Iron due to light trigger pull which is a pity, I enjoy shooting irons. |
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Yes but our Caledonian friend already has a 6-24 scope on his rifle. Therefore there is nothing stopping him taking part with the kit he already has I have just realised this, I was focussed on the 4.5x service optic rule when I realised that my trigger is too light for service optic so I will be in practical optic anyway. No need to buy another scope in that case, but I'm also stuffed for Any Iron due to light trigger pull which is a pity, I enjoy shooting irons. Enjoy shooting irons!!! Why that is the worst case of homophobia that I have ever seen on ARFCOM... |
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Yes but our Caledonian friend already has a 6-24 scope on his rifle. Therefore there is nothing stopping him taking part with the kit he already has I have just realised this, I was focussed on the 4.5x service optic rule when I realised that my trigger is too light for service optic so I will be in practical optic anyway. No need to buy another scope in that case, but I'm also stuffed for Any Iron due to light trigger pull which is a pity, I enjoy shooting irons. Enjoy shooting irons!!! Why that is the worst case of homophobia that I have ever seen on ARFCOM... You have not been on here long, have you? Edited @16:56 to add: Wikipedia: homophobia What I have I posted to infer that I hold such an attitude? |