[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Need Help! (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/26/2007 9:59:29 AM EDT
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Friends, I was involved in an atrocious incident a couple of days ago. Situation: I am in traffic, the vehicle in front of me backs up for some reason, in order to avoid contact I back up ever so slightly and "tap" the vehicle behind me, absolutely no damage, but the bitch driving the car behind goes crazy. I pull approximately 25 yards into the entrance of an apartment complex to further assess the situation. She is slurring her speech, has unsteady gait, has sunglasses on, appears impaired. Accusses me of threatening to shoot them both in the head and being drunk. I had 2 beers with lunch about one hour prior. Her neutered boyfriend says just let it go, no harm , no foul. She insists on calling the Indianapolis Metro Police.They arrive, ask me if I am armed which I always am, always. They order me to place me hands on my truck, they rip my 1911 from the holster and throw it onto the ground, they apply handcuffs, those plastic tie down type and inflict deep lacerations into both of my wrists, then slam me against the side of my truck fracturing ribs. I am remaining composed hoping to avoid further injury. The cop takes me across town AFTER I pass a field sobriety test with flying colors. I BLEW .04 on their tester. I was taken back to my truck which had been trashed, I had approximately $250.00 in cash that was missing, the contents of my truck i.e. tools, books, important papers were scattered in the mud and snow. A call to the IPD chief got me nowhere. Any advice sincerely appreciated. My attorney is out of the country for the next several days. Mark Avery |
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Did you get any pictures of your wounds.? I would certainly start with pictures of the cuts, hospital statements on the broken ribs. Pictures of your stuff scattered to the winds, and your truck trashed? Other than that, I would suggest calling the attorney anyway, even if you have to leave a message or something. Can't think of anything else now? Edited to remove comment about Marion County. |
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Sounds pretty terrifying man! I'd certainly be on the phone with a good attorney if the police simply threw my 1911 on the ground (without roughing me up or vehicle damage/property theft). Mine being worth around $1,000, and many others worth more than that. Not to mention, probably all of us who carry 1911's do it with one in the hole... I'm sure they are designed to withstand an impact with the ground, but for people who handle firearms every day, they should know damn well that throwing a loaded, chambered, cocked weapon on the ground isn't a very bright idea. Too bad it didn't fire and put a hole through the police car window. I wonder what explanation they'd come up with for that one. Say you fired at them when they arrived on the scene? Was this in a very bad part of town? Any citations issued? Any police reports or anything? |
| Lawyer up and get documentation and photographic evidence. But at thesame time no offense intended did you say anything to the officer(s) prior to them putting you in cuffs? Anything that could've instigated their reaction? I'm not advocating the reaction of the officer(s) by any means it does sound excessive. Check your email... |
Yes, I should add I know several IMPD police officers. Did you say anything in anger? I can get to the bottom line real quick if my buddies will tell me what they know and/or how your conduct was documented BY the police. |
Do you know how did she come up with the idea you were armed? Do you have stickers on the car? Was the firearm visible? Did you accidentally flash in the discussion? Unless she just makes this sort of allegation often and lucked out with you, I am wondering how it happened. |
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I'm an IMPD officer & I have to call BS w/out more details. Do you have any officers names, where it happened exactly, etc? We don't use plastic cuffs on people except when working riot control or doing drug raids where a lot of people are going to be. It takes a lot of force to shove someone against a truck & fracture their ribs. Did they do anything to the other driver who you said was intoxicated? Also I don't know any officer who is going to take a gun from someone only to throw it on the ground where it's unsecured for anyone to pick up. If this happened then go to the citizens complaint office & file a complaint for internal affairs who will then interview you & the officers & do a complete investigation. You obviously didn't get arrested so I don't see why you need to "lawyer up" but I would definately suggest you talk to him & take him with you when you go file your complaint. You will need to go in person. You can't call & hope to be taken seriously. By making people go in person & write out the complaint it weeds out the bullshitters & ambulance chasers. If you don't want to post the finer details here you can IM me & I can take the info & do some digging into what happened. |
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I really think throwing a firearm on the ground sounds fishy. Maybe if it was in the midst of an ongoing struggle or fight, but no police officer is going to just toss a firearm where anyone could pick it up. If it did go down, did you hear her phone call to IMPD? Did she say you were actively trying to harm/kill her? That could bring a reaction from the Police. |
Isn't against IMPD's SOP to transport prisoners in patrol vehicles? Also, it is prudent and riteous to secure any weapon taken off of a suspect, not toss it to the ground. So you are also telling me that your truck was parked in the entrance to an apartment complex and the officers just left it there while they took you "across town"? I think you must think it is April 1, when indeed, it is December... |
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I personally know cops that have done things like this, so it IS possible.I have had another one tell me about an asshole he and another guy picked up, drove out to a secluded location whpped his ass and left him there. wake up not all cops are what they should be. some of my local PD friends have told me things about marion county cops that would suprise you. but hey I am an anonymous person on a forum, what do I know.Right? and yeah my pistol has been tossed on the pavement and gotten damaged.this is common.anyone that has had a pistol confiscated and then whent to pick it up finds dents and scratches on them.ever see how these are handled downstairs where they are kept? don't be naive to think things like this don't happen. the OP could be full of shit tho. I, well never mind it is all hearsay and none of this can be proven... |
Same here. I am VERY careful to not call someone a troll unless I am 110%. However, there are some points in the story that are confusing and need more explanation. I am still waiting to hear how the lady knew he had a gun. Barring additional information, I would just call the story so confusing that it is not worth discussion. |
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If it's a troll, then someone has hacked Mark Avery's account or has one similar to his and is impersonating him. The real Mark Avery has been around online for a long time (longer than most of you probably) and he's never said or done anything to indicate to me he is unreliable. I used to talk to him on the 1911-techtalk e-mail list that predates almost all of these fancy forums. "Calling BS" seems to some kind of competitive sport sometimes on here. I don't understand the need to do it. I am skeptical about almost everything I see in print (especially online), but skepticism isn't the same as asserting something is untrue when I have no reason to believe so. |
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mavery01 has been a member since Dec 2005.... He has posted an almost unbelievable story.... His last login was Dec 27 and 9pm.... He has NOT responded to this story to answer any of the viable questions asked, like why did the hysterical woman know that he was armed. Masaad Ayoob has given good council that if one is ever in a situation be the FIRST caller to emergency services and that puts you at the top of the Victim/ suspect ladder. Not to mention that since Dec 2005 mavery01 has left us with 7 whole posts. I'm just sayin" 
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Quoted to conserve content. I don't know quite what to make of all this. Some of it seems far-fetched but who knows. I don't really think we are in the right to come out and call a fellow Hoosier member a troll or someone that is full of shit until we hear him out, however. This isn't the fucking GD. That's my $.02 and it is about as valuable as what you had to pay for it 
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Clint, anyone asking for change from your $.02 yet??? J/K 
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To each their own |
Joey, since you know this "Mark Avery" individual, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. |
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I'll admit I'm kinda new here, so I've only met a few of my fellow Hossier shooters. The ones I've met seem like real stand-up guys, so if the OP is a freind of a freind, well, that speaks well of him to me. Also, put yourself in this situation; imagine it happened to you. I'm sure you would be pretty frazzeled right now, probbly busy talking to lawyers, family, freinds, the cops, etc. He probably put this up to get some ideas on what to do. Hopefully he called his lawyer, who probably told him to keep it quiet for the most part, until something 'official' could be done about it. I've never met the guy, but I'll give the OP the benefit of the doubt. And just because a person decides to be a cop, doesn't mean he is without fault; nor does it make him an overcontrolling jerk. Cops are normal folks; some good, some bad, with stressfull jobs. I know I blow up at my job every once in awhile, and I'm a plumber for Pete's sake! I sure hope this is all made up, as I don't want to hear of someone getting beat up for o good reason, but if it is true, I hope that Mr Avery makes a fortune off of the SOB that beat him and messed up his property for no reason! Doug K |
You were asked to step up to the plate and did so (with gusto). Thanks Mark. Please keep us updated on the progress of your case. Any of the LEO's who posted earlier that can look into this discretely, your help.insight would be appreciated (by me and others I would guess). If you cannot get involved because of internal affairs, let us know so that we do not bug you about it. As for the forum itself, I would hope everyone would run their keyboards through the "polite" filter on this one. Hoosiers are known for knowing how to be polite when it is proper... |
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Mark, I will man up and apologize. Its just that this story seems so far fetched. (At first any way.) I mean, I have had nasty run ins with police in my younger days, but this sounds like it should be on a tv show called "When Bad Cops Get Worse." or something. The story is completely crazy to say the least, but I guess these things do happen. I hope all this turns out in your favor and you can give these "punk" cops what needs to come to them. |
Do GIMPS ...er... IMPD cars even have cameras? I know that the MCSD cars did not prior to the unfortunate consolidatio of power under Sir Bart. I asked a shootin' buddy at a match one time about it (he was a MCSD officer and now a GIMP) and he laughed when I asked him if they had cameras. I'll save the rest of the story for less public venues!
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Mr. Avery, As one of the skeptics on this thread I will also give my public apology.  Your sacrifice as a serviceman is appreciated and honored.  May the force be with you in getting justice in this case. Young supercops can do great damage to the credibility of Law Enforcement everywhere.  Respectfully, Mike Bryant |
Let me first apollogize and then fix the words in red to read: I think they must think it is April 1, when indeed, it is December From an officers standpoint, there are quite a few things wrong with how that was handled... I hope you get the recourse you deserve. |
Yes, as a matter of fact I had a few IMs with members wanting their money back
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I agree and have removed my quotes of him in deference to his legal situation. |
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Actually, Mark Avery has posted on several forums with several different versions of this incident. On one forum, a Supervisor posted with the information that Avery fled the scene and let the complainant on a 3 mile chase- something he poo pooed by stating that he only posted what he remembered. Me, i'd remember if i ran away for 3 miles. When the cops asked him if he was armed, he went for his gun- for what stupid reason, i can't even begin to guess. There is more of course, bur rather than being the "injured" party here, he was the instigator, and then posted on various forums to get sympathy. It sorta' backfired, as all the inconsistencies can now be used against him, if the agency so desires. He aparently removed the offending and contradictory posts in an attempt to avoid any further issues, but quality investigators would have taken snapshots of the posts. Guys- some advice. If you are involved in anything, call 911. You can make yourself a good guy, or a bad guy by how you act. If you are armed, for God's sake don't touch your gun. That should be simple stuff, but apparently not. The responding cops are advised over 911 and in person at the scene (according to Mark) that he was going to shoot them in the head. How do you think they came by that knowledge? Coincidence that he had the gun? Or something else... They pull up, ask him if he is armed, and he goes for his gun. No matter what the reason he did so- alcoholic impairment, stupidity or what, he is fortunate that the cops did not kill him on the spot. Running is often construed as an admission of guilt. He just conveniently forgot to post this on the other forums. Things are not always as they appear to be. Be careful- don't drink and carry a gun, or drink and drive. Thugh he was not legally drunk, it may have impacted his judgement to the point of something more serious occuring. |
OK so now I don't know what to make of this post <story> either. I know... I know.... Leave it alone it will go away all by itself. eta: maybe if we had links <proof> of Now I don't know what to believe.  |
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He posted on 10-8, and it was removed at the request of another poster. He also posted on API forums. If you have access, you may see it. You may believe what you want. However, consider that because someone lives in IN does not make him a good guy. Nor if he carries a gun. Nor if he posts on AR15.co. Nor if he is a cop. Or a rabbi. Or a mother. Or a priest. Get the drift?  People will often lie to get out from under something minor. In this case, if he had stayed, what would have been the problem? All of the police involvement is fairly well documented. The original 911 call. The subsequent calls during the chase. The radio run, the cars time and location as they arrived on scene. All of that is part of an investigation. He says flex cuffs- not likely. He says he was composed. After driving to eveade for 3 miles? Not likely. He states in one post he asked the cops if he "Should disarm"- Cop allegedly says "Yes". Highly unlikely. Too many inconsistencies. Believe what you wish, but see where this is in 30 days. 90 days. 180 days... After accusing cops of breaking bones, stealing money etc, and having investigators see the multiple inconsistencies (big difference between 25 yards and 3 miles) who knows, they may take the option of possibly charging him with filing a false report. Nothing for anyone but he to lose sleep over. Have a great night! |