Posted: 2/18/2016 11:55:27 AM EDT
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I currently live Columbia for school, but want to buy some more AR lowers. I realize it is classified as other, but that hasn't helped me in my research. Since I am a legal resident of Michigan but currently a student in Missouri, I can claim residency in the state according to the ATF since I am making a home in the state. Michigan allows resident purchase of firearms in other states (not handguns because of the registration in the state).
Does this sound right? Or am I just stuck until I travel to back to Michigan? |
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You're SOL on a new stripped lower unless you officially claim residency in MO, thus get a MO DL. Only folks that can get around this are those in the military--show their ID and their orders, so they can be residents in two states at once.
Maybe someone can sell you a rifle lower though.....out of state ID is no problem there. |
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I currently live Columbia for school, but want to buy some more AR lowers. I realize it is classified as other, but that hasn't helped me in my research. Since I am a legal resident of Michigan but currently a student in Missouri, I can claim residency in the state according to the ATF since I am making a home in the state. Michigan allows resident purchase of firearms in other states (not handguns because of the registration in the state). Does this sound right? Or am I just stuck until I travel to back to Michigan? Why don't you buy a mini mill and build your own lowers? That's one way to avoid the residency issue. |
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If you are planning on building rifles, you might be able to find some stripped lowers with some cheap stocks attached. Then they would be considered rifles and listed as such on the 4473. This is not correct. A lower configured as you describe is still an other. Having a stock attached at the time of purchase does not constitute a rifle. In order for it to be considered a rifle by the ATF, it must have, or have had a barreled upper receiver attached with a barrel length 16" or greater. That doesn't mean some dealer out there won't be aware of this, but that is the case. |
| I believe since you are a student and living part-time in Missouri you may claim a Missouri residence while you are living in the state. All you need is some documentation proving your address and residence in Missouri. If you will read the ATF regulations they address this issue for people having dual residency you are considered a resident of Missouri for the time you're here and a resident of Michigan for the time you're there regardless of which drivers license you may possess. |
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I believe since you are a student and living part-time in Missouri you may claim a Missouri residence while you are living in the state. All you need is some documentation proving your address and residence in Missouri. If you will read the ATF regulations they address this issue for people having dual residency you are considered a resident of Missouri for the time you're here and a resident of Michigan for the time you're there regardless of which drivers license you may possess. Thanks everyone for the suggestions. That is how I interpreted the ATF regulations. But would a dealer agree with that? |
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Thanks everyone for the suggestions. That is how I interpreted the ATF regulations. But would a dealer agree with that? Quoted:
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I believe since you are a student and living part-time in Missouri you may claim a Missouri residence while you are living in the state. All you need is some documentation proving your address and residence in Missouri. If you will read the ATF regulations they address this issue for people having dual residency you are considered a resident of Missouri for the time you're here and a resident of Michigan for the time you're there regardless of which drivers license you may possess. Thanks everyone for the suggestions. That is how I interpreted the ATF regulations. But would a dealer agree with that? That's the kicker right there. An out of state DL and a utility bill might work at the bank or something, but they're not looking at prison time and a six-figure fine. |
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Quoted: That is how I interpreted the ATF regulations. But would a dealer agree with that? I would suggest finding a local dealer in the thread at the top of page, and see what they say. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_32/447241_Post_your_cheap_FFL_transfer_guys_here.html |
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If you were closer to me, I have some lowers I would sell. I agree about the dual residency. I have looked into that previously when I sold a rifle to a Warrensburg student from Iowa. As long as your 18... I think you'd have to be 21 to buy (ETA: a stripped lower) from a dealer.
This might clear things up for everyone. |
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I'm an FFL in Jefferson CIty. A college student is a resident of the state where his college is located while he's attending college. Your Michigan license will establish your identity. You'll ALSO need a government issued document that shows your Missouri address. Potential acceptable documents include a voter ID card, correspondence from a state university, a Missouri resident fishing license ($12 at Walmart), a vehicle registration document, etc. It's really not a big deal. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/1980-21-identification-state-residency-out-state-college-students/download Sorry about the formatting. ATF documents never copy correctly. You can figure it out. 27 C . F . R . 178.11: MEANING OF TERMS An out - of - State college student may establish residence in a State by residing and maintaining a home in a college dormitory or in a location off - campus during the school term. ATF Rul. 80 - 21 [ Status of ruling: Active] The Bureau has been asked to determine the State of residence of out - of - State college students for purposes of the Gun Control Act of 1968. “ State of residence ” is defined by regulation in 27 C . F . R . 178.11 as the State in which an individual regularly resides or ma intains a home. The regulation also provides an example of an individual who maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. The individual regularly resides in State X except for the summer months and in State Y for the summer months of the year. Th e regulation states that during the time the individual actually resides in State X he is a resident of State X, and during the time he actually resides in State Y he is a resident of State Y. Applying the above example to out - of - State college students it is held , that during the time the students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off - campus location they are considered residents of the State where the dormitory or off - campus home is located. During the time out - of - State college students actually reside in their home State they are considered residents of their home State. |
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I'm an FFL in Jefferson CIty. A college student is a resident of the state where his college is located while he's attending college. Your Michigan license will establish your identity. You'll ALSO need a government issued document that shows your Missouri address. Potential acceptable documents include a voter ID card, correspondence from a state university, a Missouri resident fishing license ($12 at Walmart), a vehicle registration document, etc. It's really not a big deal. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/1980-21-identification-state-residency-out-state-college-students/download Sorry about the formatting. ATF documents never copy correctly. You can figure it out. Quoted:
I'm an FFL in Jefferson CIty. A college student is a resident of the state where his college is located while he's attending college. Your Michigan license will establish your identity. You'll ALSO need a government issued document that shows your Missouri address. Potential acceptable documents include a voter ID card, correspondence from a state university, a Missouri resident fishing license ($12 at Walmart), a vehicle registration document, etc. It's really not a big deal. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/1980-21-identification-state-residency-out-state-college-students/download Sorry about the formatting. ATF documents never copy correctly. You can figure it out. 27 C . F . R . 178.11: MEANING OF TERMS An out - of - State college student may establish residence in a State by residing and maintaining a home in a college dormitory or in a location off - campus during the school term. ATF Rul. 80 - 21 [ Status of ruling: Active] The Bureau has been asked to determine the State of residence of out - of - State college students for purposes of the Gun Control Act of 1968. “ State of residence ” is defined by regulation in 27 C . F . R . 178.11 as the State in which an individual regularly resides or ma intains a home. The regulation also provides an example of an individual who maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. The individual regularly resides in State X except for the summer months and in State Y for the summer months of the year. Th e regulation states that during the time the individual actually resides in State X he is a resident of State X, and during the time he actually resides in State Y he is a resident of State Y. Applying the above example to out - of - State college students it is held , that during the time the students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off - campus location they are considered residents of the State where the dormitory or off - campus home is located. During the time out - of - State college students actually reside in their home State they are considered residents of their home State. Would a utility bill be sufficient? Edited |
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Would a utility bill be sufficient? Do you do transfers? I go down to Jeff City about twice a month to go to Cardwell's. Mods: sorry if that request is inappropriate, delete if necessary. Generally, utilities are private businesses, not government agencies. Your alternative documentation must come from a GOVERNMENTAL entity. BTW, a document from the University of Missouri would qualify. You can IM if you'd like to discuss a transaction. |
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Bladeswitcher has it nailed. Something from fed, state or local gov with your name and current address, to go along with your current ID. Any decent FFL should know how to deal with this. Yes they should but unfortunately many don't. It is amazing the ignorance that is out there and the unwillingness for people to learn how things actually are supposed to be done. I have heard many FFL's say that if the I.D. doesn't match the state they are in its an automatic no sale. Sometimes we are our worst enemies. 
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Yes they should but unfortunately many don't. It is amazing the ignorance that is out there and the unwillingness for people to learn how things actually are supposed to be done. I have heard many FFL's say that if the I.D. doesn't match the state they are in its an automatic no sale. Sometimes we are our worst enemies. Quoted:
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Bladeswitcher has it nailed. Something from fed, state or local gov with your name and current address, to go along with your current ID. Any decent FFL should know how to deal with this. Yes they should but unfortunately many don't. It is amazing the ignorance that is out there and the unwillingness for people to learn how things actually are supposed to be done. I have heard many FFL's say that if the I.D. doesn't match the state they are in its an automatic no sale. Sometimes we are our worst enemies. I don't doubt what you're saying but the fact that some dealers take this position is almost inconceivable. There is a box on the form for alternative documentation and the rules are spelled out fairly clearly in the forms instructions. I guess a lot of dealers don't bother to read the instructions contained in their most important form. ETA: That said, there are a shit ton of laws, regulations, rulings, letters, etc. that an FFL has to keep up with. It's hard to know everything. The ATF issues new opinions and rulings all the time and that information does not automatically filter down to the FFL level. An FFL has to seek the information. Still, the college student thing is pretty straightforward. I would think it would come up often enough in Columbia, Missouri (home to three colleges) that every FFL would be up to speed. |