Posted: 1/5/2016 6:29:21 PM EDT
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So I didn't catch the news. Anyone know the details on this? GD threads are clusterfuck. Best I can tell he did pretty much nothing since the few things there would require congressional funding. Correct me if I'm wrong but his order didn't change the standards of when you need an ffl. |
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It will send a message to the gun dealers at the shows that don't have an FFL. There's a couple of abusers and they are at every show buying guns that come in and selling them. They've been doing that for a couple years now without repercussions. It will probably stop those guys and they know who they are.
Other than that, it really hasn't changed anything. At what point you become a candidate for firearms license is still up to a judge. If I was ATF, the guys I know would have already been charged. But perhaps their argument would be they have been denied a license because they aren't brick and mortar or have standard operating hours. ATF has been trying to shut down the hobby dealers for a very long time. It will be interesting if they relax those restrictions and let folks become hobby dealers again. They curtailed some of that by raising the license fee. I don't think it affects much other than opening up a can of worms on who is allowed a license. |
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Mostly NFA related where trust are involved.
Need for pics and prints for everyone on the trust, and supposedly no need for CLEO sign off, just "notification". There's a couple of abusers and they are at every show buying guns that come in and selling them. Dunno Yelpers, to me that seems like an infringement, unless they are doing something illegal. Hard to justify calling them abusers when if it was anything else they were selling, it wouldn't be an issue. Hell, I can sell 50 cars a year as a private citizen with no need for a license. |
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Quoted:
Mostly NFA related where trust are involved. Need for pics and prints for everyone on the trust, and supposedly no need for CLEO sign off, just "notification". Dunno Yelpers, to me that seems like an infringement, unless they are doing something illegal. Hard to justify calling them abusers when if it was anything else they were selling, it wouldn't be an issue. Hell, I can sell 50 cars a year as a private citizen with no need for a license. Quoted:
Mostly NFA related where trust are involved. Need for pics and prints for everyone on the trust, and supposedly no need for CLEO sign off, just "notification". There's a couple of abusers and they are at every show buying guns that come in and selling them. Dunno Yelpers, to me that seems like an infringement, unless they are doing something illegal. Hard to justify calling them abusers when if it was anything else they were selling, it wouldn't be an issue. Hell, I can sell 50 cars a year as a private citizen with no need for a license. You can sell stolen cars without a license? Cool! If a stolen gun ends up on their table, it can go out that way with no checks. That's the biggest problem I have. Guns come in, they buy them and they're on their table within minutes. That's pretty illegal for licensed gun dealers (although I see that happen, too). It's also illegal for them to sell to felons which these guys have no way of checking. If you think that's infringement, I can't change your mind. |
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Quoted: You can sell stolen cars without a license? Cool! If a stolen gun ends up on their table, it can go out that way with no checks. That's the biggest problem I have. Guns come in, they buy them and they're on their table within minutes. That's pretty illegal for licensed gun dealers (although I see that happen, too). It's also illegal for them to sell to felons which these guys have no way of checking. If you think that's infringement, I can't change your mind. Quoted: Quoted: Mostly NFA related where trust are involved. Need for pics and prints for everyone on the trust, and supposedly no need for CLEO sign off, just "notification". There's a couple of abusers and they are at every show buying guns that come in and selling them. Dunno Yelpers, to me that seems like an infringement, unless they are doing something illegal. Hard to justify calling them abusers when if it was anything else they were selling, it wouldn't be an issue. Hell, I can sell 50 cars a year as a private citizen with no need for a license. You can sell stolen cars without a license? Cool! If a stolen gun ends up on their table, it can go out that way with no checks. That's the biggest problem I have. Guns come in, they buy them and they're on their table within minutes. That's pretty illegal for licensed gun dealers (although I see that happen, too). It's also illegal for them to sell to felons which these guys have no way of checking. If you think that's infringement, I can't change your mind. I'm not going to be one to assume that anyone who is selling something (guns or otherwise) is dealing in stolen merchandise just because law enforcement isn't involved. I'd much rather give folks the benefit of the doubt, until they are proven to be doing shady things. Believe it or not, our crying dipshit president's EO's do not make me feel safer  |
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Quoted:
Mostly NFA related where trust are involved. Need for pics and prints for everyone on the trust, and supposedly no need for CLEO sign off, just "notification". Dunno Yelpers, to me that seems like an infringement, unless they are doing something illegal. Hard to justify calling them abusers when if it was anything else they were selling, it wouldn't be an issue. Hell, I can sell 50 cars a year as a private citizen with no need for a license. Quoted:
Mostly NFA related where trust are involved. Need for pics and prints for everyone on the trust, and supposedly no need for CLEO sign off, just "notification". There's a couple of abusers and they are at every show buying guns that come in and selling them. Dunno Yelpers, to me that seems like an infringement, unless they are doing something illegal. Hard to justify calling them abusers when if it was anything else they were selling, it wouldn't be an issue. Hell, I can sell 50 cars a year as a private citizen with no need for a license. the "fact sheet" from the white house says "no longer able to" for the trust thing, so I don't need to worry about what I already have? Do I need to go get all this done for stuff I already have? I don't want to miss something and end up like the people that got stuck with contraband street sweepers in the 90's |
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The EO broadens the scope of being a non-licensed dealer, pretty much anyone selling a firearm could be considered a non-licensed dealer since there are no set definitions.
Attempts to end FTF transfers, which leads to registration. Lose your gun rights when accused of DV, not charged or convicted. Potentially lose your gun rights if you have ever been treated for mental illness or found to have subnormal intelligence, thanks to Obamacare and circumventing HIPAA. Boosting gun saftey technology, which will eventually lead to all new guns have to be "smart guns" and have GPS tracking on them. So yeah. Nothing really changes today.... but eventually it will. |
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Quoted:
The EO broadens the scope of being a non-licensed dealer, pretty much anyone selling a firearm could be considered a non-licensed dealer since there are no set definitions. Quoted:
The EO broadens the scope of being a non-licensed dealer, pretty much anyone selling a firearm could be considered a non-licensed dealer since there are no set definitions. This is a myth, there are actually very concise definitions set forth in existing Federal law and the ATF has acknowledged this already. The EOs on FFLs are basically meaningless hot air meant only to get the left to think that he's done something about guns. ATF direct from their facebook page - None of the statutes involving the term “engaged in business” have changed. This pamphlet is just another tool ATF has published featuring scenarios we are most frequently presented by the public. We hope this clears up any questions or misinformation that may exist about when an individual should obtain a license and how he or she should go about the process. https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download And the relevent language from the federal code.... 18 U.S. Code § 921 (a)
(21)The term “engaged in the business” means— (C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms; |
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Quoted:
This is a myth, there are actually very concise definitions set forth in existing Federal law and the ATF has acknowledged this already. The EOs on FFLs are basically meaningless hot air meant only to get the left to think that he's done something about guns. ATF direct from their facebook page - https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download And the relevent language from the federal code.... Quoted:
Quoted:
The EO broadens the scope of being a non-licensed dealer, pretty much anyone selling a firearm could be considered a non-licensed dealer since there are no set definitions. This is a myth, there are actually very concise definitions set forth in existing Federal law and the ATF has acknowledged this already. The EOs on FFLs are basically meaningless hot air meant only to get the left to think that he's done something about guns. ATF direct from their facebook page - None of the statutes involving the term “engaged in business” have changed. This pamphlet is just another tool ATF has published featuring scenarios we are most frequently presented by the public. We hope this clears up any questions or misinformation that may exist about when an individual should obtain a license and how he or she should go about the process. https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download And the relevent language from the federal code.... 18 U.S. Code § 921 (a)
(21)The term “engaged in the business” means— (C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms; You don't even need to be selling firearms.... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1826059_ATF_sends_cease_and_desist_letter_to_Facebook_gun_group_admins_.html |
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Quoted: You don't even need to be selling firearms.... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1826059_ATF_sends_cease_and_desist_letter_to_Facebook_gun_group_admins_.html Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The EO broadens the scope of being a non-licensed dealer, pretty much anyone selling a firearm could be considered a non-licensed dealer since there are no set definitions. This is a myth, there are actually very concise definitions set forth in existing Federal law and the ATF has acknowledged this already. The EOs on FFLs are basically meaningless hot air meant only to get the left to think that he's done something about guns. ATF direct from their facebook page - None of the statutes involving the term "engaged in business” have changed. This pamphlet is just another tool ATF has published featuring scenarios we are most frequently presented by the public. We hope this clears up any questions or misinformation that may exist about when an individual should obtain a license and how he or she should go about the process. https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download And the relevent language from the federal code.... 18 U.S. Code § 921 (a) (21)The term "engaged in the business” means— (C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms; You don't even need to be selling firearms.... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1826059_ATF_sends_cease_and_desist_letter_to_Facebook_gun_group_admins_.html |