Posted: 1/30/2008 11:46:17 AM EDT
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i was wondering if somone could shed some light on Open Carry in Michigan, i am lost.... looking through MCL i dont see anything that prohibits open carry but it does prohibit Brandishing a firearm. and restricts the transportation of a firearm so if there are any LEO or lawyers or anyone with some info on the topic feel free to let it out.... what is open carry? Do you need to have a CPL/CCW permit? can it be a Long arm... shotgun? rifle? if so does the long gun have to be registered as a pistol or does Open Carry only apply to pistol's? i know this same question is in the air about concealed carry also what is the definition of brandishing a firearm? would it be open carry? i have not attempted to Open Carry nor concealed carry and I am working on getting my CPL just i heard this topic come up b4 and was wondering what it exactly is |
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I think the whole issue of open carry is a throw back to the wild wild west and recently to our hunting laws, if you were hunting, let's say with a rifle, it was ok to carry a pistol provided it was in the open, but if it went under your jacket without a CPL you could go to jail. Today unless you are doing re-enactments with the local Civil War Group, as a civilian you would be wise not to wear a firearm such that it could be viewed or printed. This applies even if you have a valid CPL. If you do see an individual carrying open, other than in a legal hunting situation, most folks will call the police, consider the individual a moron or worse, and that person will be on law enforcements radar continuosly until the situation is resolved. Just my 2 cents worth. |
See my comments above and below. I am not a lawyer so do not take my comments above or here as law. Also, as previously mentioned you do run the risk of getting harassed by people/police. Also, many people point out that you lose tactical advantage...why would you want to advertise that you are carrying? Here are a couple references from the Michigan State Police site: www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_-_April_2007_198953_7.pdf - Look at the "Did You Know?" section:
www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_-_May_2007_198956_7.pdf - Open carry of a pistol…revisited
So how did I do? |
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Avenger pretty much has all the bases covered. You can check out opencarry.org and visit the forums and choose the Michigan section for more info and talk. Specifically look for those places where you can't carry (they're different than it is for CPL holders). As I see it there are 3 reasons for open carry. 1. You want to defend yourself, but you don't have a CPL and/or can't and/or refuse to go through the rigmarole, register for your rights, etc. 2. To practice your rights to keep your rights. 3. As a "conversation piece" to spark moments where you can educate the public. All valid reasons if you ask me, though #3 may often be from anti-gun citizens. Which I guess is ok since they're in need of some edumacating. Just do so kindly and be the better man to a fault. It doesn't matter what you say, fact or not, if you do so as an asshole or get irritated you're not coming off well. And being respected is a form of education. Though, don't look smug in your calmness either. Tactically it may not be the best, but you make your own decisions. I see a major problem with it though. Not really with open carry, but Michigan laws. As soon as you enter a vehicle you are carrying concealed, so in order to do so you'd have to have a CPL. Since you can't transport a loaded weapon in a car without a CPL, you'd have empty it and separate it from the ammo. You'd also have to case it. Soooo...where does one load and unload their firearm? It certainly wouldn't look good for someone to pull into a parking lot, approach their trunk, retrieve their pistol, slap in a mag and put in their holster. Just seems a lot more terrorizing to the public than just already having the gun in your holster. It shouldn't technically be brandishing, but who wants to test that. Maybe you could ask on OpenCarry what they do. As a result it seems even open carriers get CPL's just for transport reason. If you want to walk, that's fine. Talking to a lawyer first is always good. |
You can open carry OR carry concealed on your own property. 750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty. Sec. 227. (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business or on other land possessed by the person. (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license. |
| i never realized the michigan law on open carry was like this. Lets say for example i took my dog for a walk around the neighborhood. I could carry a holstered pistol with me as long as it is in the open an not covered by a shirt? (I am not going to try this but am just asking would i be within the law?) |
| totally legal, but not recommended. if someone freaks out and phones 911 with a man with gun call hock.gif you will most likely get ticketed for something, disturbing the peace?? |
First off, I am not interested in openly carrying a firearm as I prefer not to stand out. I realize most people probably would not even notice open carry of a pistol on your hip, but some will. I think it is unfortunate that people feel it is a bad idea in light of potential LE response. Being harassed, arrested, and/or charged with something would definitely concern me. I am not aware of much OC activity in this state, certainly not like I hear about in other states. Therefore, I am not certain of the validity of concerns involving LE. I know there have been a few articles in MI media over the last ~4 months. One featured the owner of Silver Bullet Firearms in Grand Rapids. Why don’t you guys & gals organize an OC meet up at a nice restaurant and post up the details. 
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from what i read its legal to open carry, just not in places where firearms are restricted, must not be concealed in any way or at any time, b4 entering a vehicale you must secure the firearm in the trunk as if you are transporting any firearm, also in some instaces you can open carry where you cannot carry concealed, plus it gives somone the ability to carry who cant get a CPL because they are only 18-20, or dont have the money to pay for a ccw class and the permit. also on the brandishing issue our great govenor did one thing in our favor, she wrote an attorney general opinion which defines brandishing and state that a loaded firearm, holstered on your hip in plain sight is not concidered brandishing a firearm this could help with the disturbing the peace and brandishing issue if it ever came up but im more than shure somone would be concerned and call 911 and yes you would be in a little bit of a hassel but nothing that would stand as in the Michigan constitution there is a firearm preemption law on laws restricting firearm rights and that a local goverment cannot restrict firearm laws without approval from the state, so if it went to court more than likely itd die in an appeals court, but i never said it couldnt go that far... there was a guy from opencarry.com who says he's from Grand Rapids and open carries downtown, i think im gonna write a couple letters out, one to the local police chief, and the local Prossecuting Attoryneys office and see what kind of response i get back from them, kinda has me curious as to what responses would be, even the Michigan state police announced in a open letter that open carry is legal, and as far as i can see its not banded under state law guess its like any other right, if you dont use it, youll lose it because of communitys idea on the politically correctnessm because you dont see much of it then people would more than likely over react to it. |
Probably hospitals. As for the other question, what I take from the MSP release is that it is perfectly legal to OC, and that it does not constitute brandishing or disturbing the peace. |
The only thing I would say to that is if someone said your unholstered it and/or pointed it at them, how could you disprove it? The law would have to take there side. Better to stay out of that can of worms, imho. |
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See, that kind of conditioning is what got us here in the first place-in our legal system, burden of proof rests with the prosecution. If they take you to court, THEY have to prove you were waving it around and when they can't do that and you win, LAWSUIT TIME. Repeat until we aren't bothered by sheeple driven cops anymore. Dave |
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someone could say that you were actually pointing the firearm at them, or waving it around? if you were walking around but then the cops would have to take your word or theirs, also you cannot use hearsay in court so unless that person was willing to be a witness and goto court and testify under oath then it really wouldnt go to far. other factors would come into play like if you had a mens rea (criminal intent) in the first place to be waving your pistol around, if the person could not come up with a reason why you were waving it then thats another downfall on their false aqusation as well whats the law about a cop must be present at the time of a misdimenor and witness it to make an arrest? im not exactly shure on the letter of the law but its along those lines also if you went to the extent of contacting the local Prosecuting Attorney and police chief and asked them if it was ok, maybe even you wrote them and got a letter back, that would also help in your side for not having a Mens Rea and wishing to follow the law its because the sheep and people like who, why we even have to look at idiotic ideas like what CNN ran about the evil PINK rifles.... beware of Hello Kitty..... |
Read my post above (3rd one in the thread). Local ordinances that preempt open carry or concealed carry laws are illegal and unenforceable. Yeah, you may get hassled but it most likely would never make it to court. If it did it would get thrown out. |