Posted: 4/3/2007 7:39:37 PM EDT
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I an having a hard time finding this information so here I am... In Ohio do you have to be the registered owner of your carry pistol? Concealed or open carry? I would assume not ... but I would like to know for sure. Thanks in advance. |
Firearms are not registered. You can carry any pistol you want no matter who it belongs to. As long as you are able to own it, you can carry it. If you want to carry something ridiculous, like and AK pistol in a holster under your black trench coat, sure it's legal as long as you can legally own it. Open carry is legal whether you have a CHL or not. But, if you open carry you can expect a "concerned citizen" to call the cops on you. You'll most likely wind up like Dan Sayers You can watch his video here. |
Thanks for the links....holy fucking shit. 
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Thanks, thats what I wanted to know. Wow that video is pretty wild. He was being sort of an ass twards the police though. Had he maintained his composure and remained calm (hard to do with an ar in your face though) I think this situation would have not been what it was. Anyone know if he was arrested or let go? Edited to add: Ok well he obviously was arrested. What was the end outcome of his trial? |
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Yup, HB347 would have made Oregon's ordinance banning carrying of all firearms null and void. He probably would have still been pulled over and given him a hard time though. He was carrying a Bersa 380 on each hip (open carry) while pumping gas at a station. I seem to remember they took both his Bersas and some ammo that was in his car. AFAIK he hasn't gotten them back. Last I heard the Oregon prosecuter was proceding with the case. I haven't read much on it since Dan's falling out with OFCC. |
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Had he not been an ass to the officers, I think they would have cut him loose quicker. I have been stopped before because my car fit the description of another car that was shooting up a bad side of town... It wasnt me. But the officer was sweeping wide coming up to the window with his Beretta locked in on me. I calmly followed his directions and stayed calm through out the ordeal. No problem. was on my way in about 3 minutes after he found out I wasnt the car. My brother is Ohio Police. I understand a little about these guys. I dont blame them for coming up weapons drawn on a felony stop. But anyways... If he would have calmed down and acted a little more rational, I think he would have been gone once they cleared the license, tags on the car and the guns. They had the call. They have to check. If not, someone gets shot afterwards then they would have a lawsuit for sure. I honestly think the police are trying to help. They do a thankless job for the most part. If he would have shut up for 2 minutes... he could have been on his way. |
Preachin' to the choir, brother. Course, if he'd have covered his dual Bersa's to begin with instead of walking around like Yosemite fuckin' Sam he wouldn't have been pulled over in the first place. |
Problem is, he got lazy/forgetful and got out of the car, and didn't cover his CCW firearms. Heck, prior to March, dad has at least on instance where he was "911 - man with a gun" as he got out of his car to fill up the tank. Cops pulled up, observed, then followed, then disappeared.  ETA... Where was this guy's shirt? It looked like he was just wearing shorts, suspenders and two holstered firearms. 
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I have a cousin that has been a LEO for a long time and also can under stand what they go through. Its a shame he had to act that way because officers are going to start thinking that people that carry are arseholes and treat us like crap. Alot of people say that they (the police) should not have done anything with the call. What if he was a criminal? I would rather get stopped and verify info to be good and valid than have people calling in criminals and police do nothing. At least they are trying to do their job. My question though...... why 2 pistols? |
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Sounds like Dan's not the only one. Here's one in Sandusky that's been charged. link These cases are why I will not open carry except on my property or on a shooting range. A Man-with-a-gun call can lead to arrest and cost you thousands, even if you somehow win. While I think most cops have no problem with CCW and are great people, there are some just looking for an excuse to charge someone and destroy their life. Keep your gun concealed. |
Hell, maybe we should all go get concealed carry badges and attach them to our belts if we go for open carry.  j/k! Hahahaa... 2 Bersa .380's Sheesh!Did open carry at Wal-Mart one time with my brother. I had my S&W 4506R3 on my belt while he had his HKUSP45C. Both had mag pouches (open top) and he had his badge on his belt as well. I figured what the hell, I was with him so I just open carried in as well. Had a few gangsta's that give us quite the look. A couple of em commented on the BIG GAT I had on my belt and they had better not mess with me!  Guy running the counter wanted to chat about how he was trained in the army to use the 9mm that my brother was carrying. I told him that was a .45. Oh he trained with the 9 version. Funny, I thought they used Beretta's! 
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So it's Dan's fault, and he deserved being arrested and having loaded AR's pointed as his face? Would you like to clarify what law he broke, or spirit of what law he broke, to deserve this punishment?? Disgraceful opinions you have there, IMHO. This is a pro-gun forum, right? He might have handled things differently, but none of this should have happened to a person exercising their rights, legally. |
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While Dan was within his rights, he was acting like a real ass. The police were probably just trying to dig something up on him. I (and you) probably would have too for the simple reason that.... Respect goes both ways. You want it? You must give it first. *Especially to someone that puts thier ass on the line everyday to keep yours safe.* |
Ok, let's discuss this a bit, shall we? I know you to be a reasonable person, so do you as a reasonable person think he should go unnoticed carrying a pistol on each hip? Not in theory, but in real every day practice? In theory, I think he should be able to do that, but I know that reality is different. I would expect to have the cops on me fairly quickly if I carried openly at all; having not just one pistol, but one on each hip, fairly screams out "come and get me". Clearly he was looking for a confrontation and he got it. I don't know this guy's story, but I'm assuming he was out to be a test case. Are you saying that if you strapped a hogleg on each hip and went to Kroger's that you would expect no trouble? To continue the conversation, let's assume he should be able to carry "Yosemite Sam" style(I love that description) and no one should even give him a second look. Fine. Now we're talking the kind of state I'd like to live in. But, when the cops do arrive, the actions of the person being stopped go a long way toward setting the tone of the ensuing discussion. I have been stopped by cops and had guns pointed at me. It is not pleasant. Of course, all my years of top-secret super-Ninja SEAL training kick in and I still feel bad for the forty-two cops I had to kill with my ball-point pen that afternoon, but that's another story. This guy really had an attitude. I think if he would've had a different attitude toward the cops, they would've had him on his way much quicker. Again, it seems like he wanted a confrontation. This is a sticky discussion, because we are all pro-gun here, and I personally support the right to carry open or concealed without a permit. I believe that every American has that right. However, I also recognize that the world in which I live does not always work as it should. That is why I am accepting donations for my eventual run as World Czar so we can fix all this silliness. I also think, however, that we in the pro-rights community need to be careful about which fights we choose and whom we pick as heroes. You may begin my flaming as soon as I finish buttoning up my asbestos jacket. |
Not flaming you, I agree with most of what you said on principle, however I think Dan is being unfairly treated as if he wore a halter top through Central Park and got raped. I don't know Dan personally, but know him through OFCC. As much as it appears he was trying to provoke a confrontation with his open carrying, I don't think he was. In the first place, he was pumping gas not strolling through a bridal shop. Second, his carry rig was a gun and backup gun (that's not absurd). He was open because he had to comply with the bullshit "open" vehicle stuff, and thought it was easier to just to pump the gas than to conceal/disrobe/hide the hoglegs/whatever. The situation in which he had open guns on him wasn't provacative, or even crazy. Man pumping gas. Shit, guys were having to open carry on motorcycles in order to CCW. Did they ask for it?. No, just doing what they had to, by the stupid rules imposed upon them. Dan too. I got made transitioning from open to concealed in a bank parking lot once, by accident. Thank God it didn't draw a 911 call, but I definately wasn't looking to be a test case. Knowing Dan, I assure you he had contemplated "what if" and by his actions he definately had a chip on his shoulder, wasn't respectful to the cops, and made his situation worse, but I swear people seem to think his attitude was arrest-worthy in and of itself. Horseshit to that, I say. And, on some level, I understand his contempt at a cop bearing down on him with a loaded AR and snapping back with some vitriol. Can't say I'd be thrilled to go from gas-pumper to Shane Kehoe in 1/4 mile. He was legal pumping the gas, he was legal in the car, he was legal open carrying, and he was legal in being a shithead to the cops. Do I agree with how he handled it? No. Do I think he made the cops angry? Yes. Do I think they would have let him skate after that aggressive stop even if he had been Mr. Nice Guy? Doubtful. We'll never know, but in any case, he didn't deserve to go to jail for having his guns in the open. He wasn't Beatty trying to provoke a court case, he was going to work and got some gas, and didn't hide his guns. |
Swingset. At no time do I say he deserved to be arrested and I do agree with you that he should not have been. But in listening to the one officer who did manage to get him calmed down, I think Dan was starting to understand their position a little more himself. Anytime a firearm may be involved LEO is going to pull the terry stop and secure the weapon. Then they will ascertain the situation and make a decision whether to charge or not. The persons demeanor I think would play a whole lot into this. Me personally, I think he sounded like he went out picking a fight and got the big guy down the street that whooped his ass. I moved to Ohio from SE KY back in 2004. Damn I miss KY. Could open carry pretty much anywhere in town you wanted to. Walked into the grocery store many times with a pistol on my leg while on the way to the range. Dont have to deal with all these damn signs up at all the business'. LEO would walk up to you and ask what are ya carrying? Nice Gun!, we just got these damn tupperware pistols, wanna look? See ya later. Its a different mentality to the firearms and the states position. While Ohio is coming more inline with gun laws they are still in the dark ages on some of its position on handling things. The sheeple run amuck in the Buckeye. You know what... Sitting here thinking about this... Maybe we should have an Ohio Open Carry Day. Pick a date. Have every legal firearms owner in the state open carry during daily personal business. Go to Kroger's, strap one on. Go to fill up the truck, strap one on. Now of course there are places we all know we cant carry... in those cases... Wear the holster in open sight. Keep things in mind and lets not push some situations, such as schools, federal bldgs, etc. We dont want anyone to get into trouble with this, but we do want to become a visible education tool for the sheeple. I think the sheeple would be surprised that we wouldnt have Dodge City in downtown Hamilton, or OK Corral in Xenia. But it could wake em up a bit so that the calls to 911 my be reduced. Its all good Brother! |
So what was the final result of this encounter? I take it he was arrested, with what was he charged? Sounded to me like the cops were satisfied and probably about to release him. |
The case is still ongoing. I'm not 100% about the charges, my memory's shot. I can't remember if they're prosecuting him on the carrying (supposedly illegal at the time, in that city), or the failure to notify. I think it's failure to notify, but I'd have to look it up to be sure. |
He was charged with having a gun at all which violates local law, as well as 'failure to notify' |
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I agree with swingset and also understand that a man-with-a-gun call is dangerous for the Police. But Police should realize that most of the public are not used to having guns pointed at them, putting their life at risk. I understand Dan's anger and frustration at having guns pointed at him and being accused of failing to notify. It is obvious that the Cops were looking for a charge to justify the felony stop. Dan's also a young guy and most of us at that age have a hard time controlling our anger. That should not be an arrestable offence. On the subject of respect being earned. I respect the Badge and what it stands for, as well as the thousands of LEO that try their best at a very hard job. In my opinion, those that wear the Badge are to be honored and respected and I thank them for their sacrifice. But I also think that a small percentage of LEO cross the line and dishonor the badge by becoming bullies and thugs. The Badge holds awesome power and should not be used to destroy good people as it seems Dan's arresting Officers did. I understand that there will be some that disagree but this is my thought on the subject. |
Ditto. I agree totally. Nicely written and funny too. Cincylance |
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I just watched 32 minutes of video. And I ask as he did.....when the hell is he supposed to "notify" I mean they are yelling at him to get his hands up and exit the car etc...... He says he notified and he may have. You can't hear anything he is saying, only what the cops are saying. The notification law is bullshit anyway. The minute they ran his plates, they new he was CHL. People, customers at a gas station, should mind their own fucking business. If he wasn't standing at the counter robbing the clerk then there is no reason to call 911. I believe though, had this happened to me, I would have given my name rank and serial number and just shut the fuck up. My only comments after that would have been "lawyer". He talked way to much, enough to cause himself trouble. A jury will see that video if he goes to trial. Screaming about having a rifle pointed at you isn't going to undo the pointing. Better to just sue them later. |
+1 The time to fight is in court. Fighting any sooner than that is a guaranteed loser. |
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One thing I have learned from all of my traffic stops is this: Once you are stopped, nothing is going to interrupt the officer's traffic stop protocol. It doesn't matter what you say, he's not letting you go until he's done. Is having loaded weapons pointed at you disconcerting? Absolutely! I had Middleburgh Hts. police draw down on me, and I almost shit myself. No Joke! I complied, answered all of their questions, and they eventually let me go. It was a case of wrong place at the wrong time, driving a similar car, blah, blah, blah... What I don't understand about the Sayers Incident, is this... the CCW law says YOU MUST NOTIFY AN OFFICER IF YOU ARE CCW, but if you are OPEN carrying, why the need for notification? They already had a "man with gun" call, they know, already, that you're armed, and when he starts to shimmy out of his window, they can plainly see his sidearms. I have read the O.R.C. forwards and backwards on this subject and have found NOTHING to support the Oregon PD's "failure to notify" charge. However, because this happened in 2006, and HB347 had not yet passed, let alone become law, Oregon's archaic "no guns" law will probably hold up. I would think a good lawyer would be able to get the "failure to notify" charge dropped. If this were me, I would give name, rank, and serial number for their questions, and once I was read my rights I would not say another word without my Att'y present. P.S.- I last open carried in Cleveland about 2yrs ago, when I was doing a job in a bad neighborhood. When CPD rolled by, they saw what I had, I tipped my hat to them, they gave me a nod, and kept driving. They realized the area I was in. And I'm sure that it helped that I was on private property. But they didn't even blink. I guess when you have a tool belt on, along with your weapon, it's pretty obvious that you're working, not committing any crimes, or looking to commit one.  |
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ok, here we go... Swing, if you're on OFCC you know Dan's history from reading his posts. He had a couple of times in the first year of carrying that he had to pull his gun. They were all situations that were easily avoidable. He could have slowed down his car, let the guy have the damn 2 liter of pop, etc... (search the OFCC forums to read some of Dan's stories) All of his encounters with police or BGs could have been avoided with a little restraint and common sense. I'm not above eating a little humble pie if it keeps me from having to draw my firearm. From the tone of Dan's posts, I don't think he feels that way. He said on a number of occasions that he would pump his gas and go into the station to pay with both his Bersas uncovered. Not because he forgot to cover them, but because it was his damn right to open carry. Damn the sheep I suppose... He said in his posts that nobody at the station ever bothered him Now, let me say that open carry is legal in Ohio. If something is legal and you want to do it, more power to you. Personally, I think open carry is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard of. When you open carry you remove the element of surprise you may have on a BG, you tell the BG "shoot me first", and you scare the sheep. The first two reasons we can all agree on. But, what's the point of scaring the sheep? You're not going to change anyone's mind on CCW by walking around like Yosemite Sam. That said, the cops were totally wrong. Did the 911 dispatcher bother to ask the women that called to report Dan what the man with the gun was doing? 911: "What's Yosemite doing?" Caller: "He's pumping gas! I'm scared! OMFG, he'd checking his oil! Send hlep NOW!" If he wasn't threatening anyone, why didn't the cops pull him over and run his plates? They'd have known right then that he was a CHL holder. Instead these yahoos pull a Terry stop on him. WTF was that about? Even with their cities no gun law there was still no need for a felony stop. Those cops are morons and should be disciplined at the least, sued at the most. Dan acted like a jerk during the stop. He didn't do himself any favors there. If he would have acted as cool during the stop as I imagine he did while flaunting his Bersas he'd have probably walked away from this stupidity with little more than a warning. In the end, I'd like to see everyone shake hands and get over it. The cops admit that they were wrong and learned something about Ohio gun laws. Dan admit that open carry stupid and perhaps learn something about being a responsible adult. Oh, and while I'm dreaming I'd like a pony too. Instead, I'm sure that both the city and Dan are going to do nothing but waste money on this crap. The only person that was involved in this situation that should be arrested is the women that made the 911 call. |