[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Outside AC unit quit - Help (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/5/2012 2:36:26 PM EDT
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I have a heat pump and a regular unit, and the regular one just quit. The heat pump is still going, but it's only connected to half the house, and even at that it isn't cooling that well by itself right now. The thermostat for the regular unit was flashing "Cool", and the outside unit is completely silent/inactive. I turned the thermostat to off, and just switched the fan to On so it'll circulate the air. I went outside, turned off the breaker that's on the house next to the unit;  ...then removed this panel;  ..then I looked inside, and couldn't see anything wrong. There's a red and a green light, flashing together;  I don't have a meter, or the knowledge to do anything further. Any tips on what I should do or try, or do I need to call someone? |
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I don't have a meter, and haven't used one in about 20 years anyway. The two lights are flashing at a regular interval, about one second on and one second off. (I don't know if that tells you anything). Edit - Checking a link that Festus_Hagen sent me, I checked the light sequence against a tag inside the panel I had removed. It says; Defrost Board Diagnostic LEDs Simultaneous Slow Flash - Normal Operation |
| Might check the panels to see if they have a diagram of service codes and what they mean, could do a online search for the manuel for the unit and see if it has any info on the codes your seeing. That will at least give you an idea as to what kind of cash your going to have to pay when the tech comes out. Other than that I'd leave it up to the pro's, electricity doesn't tolerate mistakes. |
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Quoted: eta. did you check the inside breaker/fuse? There are three breaker panels here, and I flipped the double throws that aren't marked as anything else (most of the breakers aren't labeled at all  ). Nothing was visibly tripped, but I flipped them anyway.Maybe I should turn off the heat pump, and flip all of them just to be sure. I think I'll go do that. Edit - Did it; no change. |
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OK, someone just walked me through some stuff with it. There's power to the top and bottom of the contactor, the contactor holds in, and after a bit the fan started going. The compressor still isn't on, and the thermostat still flashes "COOL". He said to leave it on for a while, and see if the compressor starts going. |
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That would be good, in case I can't get things going tomorrow, but are you aware I'm in Russellville now? That is, if it's a spare and isn't placing any hardship on you. I'm hopeful that this will be an easy fix, and I could get back to you quickly. I'll send you an IM with my address, so you can see if you're close by. (I know you weren't local when you came to my old place, but I don't remember where you said you live). Thanks for the offer.  |
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Good thing I clicked in ;)
Depending on the type of thermostat, a flashing "cool" indicator signifies it's in time delay. You could have a defective stat. Easy way to rule it out.... AT THE THERMOSTAT PLACE A JUMPER WIRE BETWEEN THE "R" TERMINAL AND THE "Y" TERMINAL. I had one (brand new) do this to me yesterday. If the stat is bad, The compressor terminal will not energize, the jumper wire will bypass the stat and send 24v straight outside. Next place I'd look is a short in the low voltage wires outside(dogs love to chew this shit) Next would be a blown capacitor (yours looks fine, but this is the most likely suspect. The heat is murder on them.) Next would be Contactor (your looks fine) Next would be the defrost control born (I'll speculate it's ok) I'm going to PM you my number, feel free to give me a call. |
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Good thing I clicked in ;) Depending on the type of thermostat, a flashing "cool" indicator signifies it's in time delay. You could have a defective stat. Easy way to rule it out.... AT THE THERMOSTAT PLACE A JUMPER WIRE BETWEEN THE "R" TERMINAL AND THE "Y" TERMINAL. I had one (brand new) do this to me yesterday. If the stat is bad, The compressor terminal will not energize, the jumper wire will bypass the stat and send 24v straight outside. Next place I'd look is a short in the low voltage wires outside(dogs love to chew this shit) Next would be a blown capacitor (yours looks fine, but this is the most likely suspect. The heat is murder on them.) Next would be Contactor (your looks fine) Next would be the defrost control born (I'll speculate it's ok) I'm going to PM you my number, feel free to give me a call. From what he's said here and on the facebook, contactor is energized, fan starts every once in a while, but no comp, I told him it sounds just like a cap, tried to get him to go feel the top of the CFM to see if it's hot, but he wouldn't, lol. But with voltage through the contractor and fan only starts every so often with no comp, that tells me comp is out on overload and given how many of the damn things I've changed lately, and what it's doing, I told him cap. Interesting doing this with no meter, lol.. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted: Quoted: Check Schepker's (sp?) on Industrial . They have a bunch of different ones in stock .A few people said capacitor, so I shut everything down, and removed it. I'll check into getting a new one tomorrow. I appreciate all the help.   They have one in stock, for $54.04, and they're holding it for me until I get there. |
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Check Schepker's (sp?) on Industrial . They have a bunch of different ones in stock .A few people said capacitor, so I shut everything down, and removed it. I'll check into getting a new one tomorrow. I appreciate all the help.
They have one in stock, for $54.04, and they're holding it for me until I get there.
Right on ! 
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I'm not an HVAC expert, just a homeowner.
Do you have a programable thermostat? Check the batteries in it. Mine still "looks" fine, but when the batts get low it won't trigger the relay correctly. Doing the jumper procedure mentioned above bypassing the thermostat should eliminate this possibility. But since you've just moved who knows what you've inherited and I've seen the wiring colors be messed up or installed wrong too. - JP |
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One of the guys had me put new batteries in the thermostat, so I'm good there. I took the old capacitor with me to the parts place, to make sure I was getting right thing, and when the guy saw that I had it he asked how it tested out. I told him I had no way to test it, and was working off instructions from friends on the internet, and he went in back and got a meter. He tested it, and said it was bad, then tested the new one, then looked at the old one again. When he set it on the counter, it was slightly bulged on the bottom, and wouldn't sit flat. He checked with the meter again, and said it's definitely bad. I just got home with the new one, and in a little bit I'll be heading out there to install it. I pray that this fixes it. |
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I put the capacitor in, hooked it up, closed the panel, and then turned the breaker on. Went inside, switched the fan to Auto and the control to Cool, and it started flashing COOL. By the time I got back outside the unit was running, blowing hot air out the top. I came back inside, and immediately felt the cool air coming from the vents. (It's working; yay!) I looked at the thermostat again, and it's still flashing COOL. Why would it still flash, when it's working? |
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I put the capacitor in, hooked it up, closed the panel, and then turned the breaker on. Went inside, switched the fan to Auto and the control to Cool, and it started flashing COOL. By the time I got back outside the unit was running, blowing hot air out the top. I came back inside, and immediately felt the cool air coming from the vents. (It's working; yay!) I looked at the thermostat again, and it's still flashing COOL. Why would it still flash, when it's working? No worries on the thermostat, that is just it's design. MOST flash cool if they are in time delay. I wouldn't sweat it one bit. Sounds like your stat is a Hunter or Hampton Bay. Capacitors are the issue on 95% of my calls, with sustained heat like this. |
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Quoted: Capacitors are the issue on 95% of my calls, with sustained heat like this. So how does an Average Joe determine what capacitor their particular AC unit uses? How does one test it? And how does one safely R&R it? And what does an annual AC "tune up" service generally cost on a working system? |
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Capacitors are the issue on 95% of my calls, with sustained heat like this. So how does an Average Joe determine what capacitor their particular AC unit uses? How does one test it? And how does one safely R&R it? And what does an annual AC "tune up" service generally cost on a working system? ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS TURN OFF THE POWER. Then double check to make sure it's off and there is no power at the unit. Well, simply put, it should say on the side of the cap what size it is, generally it will be in increments of 5, and the majority of the time the fan will be a 5mfd value. A small unit will probably be a 30+5 or a 35+5, as the unit gets larger the cap will do the same, 40+5, 45+5 and up, I've seen 80+5 on some big heat pumps. Testing it is interesting sometimes, if you have a fancy meter that has a selection to check capacitance you unplug it and go across the cap's terminals, with a old school analog meter, unplug the cap, put the probes across the terminals and the needle should bounce up and then slowly go back down. We charge 84.95 for a tune up, on our maintenance agreement the price varies, but goes down quite a bit. 89.00 for a service call during normal business hours, goes up quite a bit for overtime, and we are flat rate in a way, kind of a hybrid system. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
| AC capacitors are so much fun, I'm glad you found an affordable replacement. My condenser is so old that a friend that does HVAC just took the rest of the caps for our model as a ready reserve for us, every other year we need a new one... though I need a new system asap, its hawt! |
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sempermo, actually shouldnt the meter run low in resistance and slowly build up to a higher value, as the plates take a charge from the VOM? Truthfully, I don't remember, my analog meter is buried in the basement, haven't used it in many years.. I have a fancy Fluke multimeter that tells me how many microfarads the cap is putting out.. I'd have to do some reading when I haven't been drinking like I have tonight.. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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So I test the capacitor by placing a screwdriver across both terminals, right?  I've just got the generic $10 multimeter here at Casa 1CM. Lol, just call me tomorrow if you wanna mess with it. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Are we talking voltage or resistance? Ya, the voltage will drop as the cap slowly discharges. I usually check via resistance and a discharged cap. As the charge builds up on the plates, the resistance will appear to be low. But as the charge nears its max (no current or low current flow) the appeared resistance will increase. So from say a couple Ks to into the megaohms. But I agree the best way would be a multimeter that has the ability to check cap. value. And maybe a megger that can do 110v and 220v readings to make sure the cap is not flashing over. But I suppose if it was flashing over, the case will be pregnant. |
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Capacitors are the issue on 95% of my calls, with sustained heat like this. So how does an Average Joe determine what capacitor their particular AC unit uses? How does one test it? And how does one safely R&R it? And what does an annual AC "tune up" service generally cost on a working system? ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS TURN OFF THE POWER. Then double check to make sure it's off and there is no power at the unit. Well, simply put, it should say on the side of the cap what size it is, generally it will be in increments of 5, and the majority of the time the fan will be a 5mfd value. A small unit will probably be a 30+5 or a 35+5, as the unit gets larger the cap will do the same, 40+5, 45+5 and up, I've seen 80+5 on some big heat pumps. Testing it is interesting sometimes, if you have a fancy meter that has a selection to check capacitance you unplug it and go across the cap's terminals, with a old school analog meter, unplug the cap, put the probes across the terminals and the needle should bounce up and then slowly go back down. We charge 84.95 for a tune up, on our maintenance agreement the price varies, but goes down quite a bit. 89.00 for a service call during normal business hours, goes up quite a bit for overtime, and we are flat rate in a way, kind of a hybrid system. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile We had our capacitor changed out last Monday. I was working closeby and happened to look at it the other day and the pullout for the disconnect was laying on top of the disconnect box, and the damn thing was running!!! 
I pulled the cover off the disconnect, and sure enough, both side of the 220 was hot-wired directly to the load. The house is less than 7 years old and the unit had been installed by a pro. |
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Quoted: A HUGE thank you to Andrew7934 for the house call today. My AC was still running, so as PM he did an inspection for me to test my capacitor. He also gave me plenty of tips to improve the unit's efficiency such as washing 5 years of dirt out of the fins and to get some actual insulation onto the compressor line from the unit to the house. Now I'm off to grainger.com to order a spare cap and then off to the hardware store to buy some insulation. |
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I'm looking online to buy a spare cap and suddenly I feel a little dumb. Are these two the same thing? This is what I have:  This is what I find as an Assembled in Mexico replacement part: http://www.pexsupply.com/Rheem-43-25133-11-35-3-MFD-Dual-Round-Capacitor-440V Is it really just a $7 part? Here's a ~$9 part: http://keithspecialty.com/k/RH-1MB.htm Grainger shows this Chinese part for ~$24: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-Dual-Motor-Run-Capacitor-6FLT1?Pid=search Or how about this one for ~$68: http://www.americanhvacparts.com/p-21549-353-mfd-440-volt-dual-round-run-capacitors-bdp-carrier-rheem-ruud-equipment.aspx Can they really vary $60+ in price? |
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Any of those will work, I'm leery of the $7 one, that seems crazy low, even though I do know of the mars brand, and they are decent, but I haven't bought a cap personally for a long time, I have my own supply, or I buy them at the parts house, and don't really pay attention to what it costs Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |