Posted: 1/27/2008 11:18:07 AM EDT
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I have posted a new petition over on the PM's website, calling for a referendum on the publics right to personal protection. It is deliberately not a firearms petition, but I feel its still important. Please sign it & pass the message onto as many people as you can. http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/personprotection/ |
Love the Avatar Icarus..... 
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Indeed we have. We can, I do. It would be nice to be able to carry Mace though. |
It doesn't however allow the law abiding citizen the right to carry ANY self defense equipment on the person, unless you call a whistle or harsh words 'equipment'. |
That's right it doesn't. Whether that should be changed is a whole different issue to the existing rights to use reasonable force. As ever it will be the ordinary citizen who gets the rough end. Persons willing to do you harm are already carrying weapons because they have no regard for the law, so you can argue that the law is putting you at risk by depriving you of the ability to defend yourself. The counter argument would be if everyone is allowed to carry some device for self defence there is a greater risk that it could be abused or used inappropriately. Maybe this risk could be minimised by the lawful carrying of less lethal options as above: Mace, Taser etc, but then the criminal will escalate perhaps to firearms. Then if criminal use of firearms becomes so commonplace that the only way for citizens to defend themselves is to be able to carry firearms themselves. Where does it end? |
Clearly it ends where the government in this country has decided it has to, which is that it is better to be a victim (submit) than to have any means fight off criminals/thugs/drunken attackers. We have seen many, many examples of this happening this year alone where totally innocent people were murdered by thugs etc. Of course this is FAR better than letting people have the proper 'means' for self defense as we don't want the situation where these misunderstood criminals/animals/murderers get what they deserve. 
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Now you've got it 
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Well as the Police have been deemed themselves to NOT be responsible for an individuals safety, it's reasonable to conclude that you have a responsibility for your own protection. Now as common law says you may use reasonable force to defend yourself, and if the circumstances warrant it, deadly force is permissible… well it seems reasonable that I should have about me the means to apply such reasonable force as may be appropriate. |
Inside the house, or in public? Coz, as I read it, what you say is reasonable, however you can't have a firearm in a public place unless it is cased and unloaded. So you can beat them with the gun bag, but can you take the time to withdraw it from the case, load it and give the perp the good news? |
A friend was punched in the face on Saturday night in an unprovoked and unexpected attack by a gang of thugs......An hour later he died in hospital from head injuries.  Normally I'd have to agree that we ought to be able to do more to protect ourselves. Unfortunately, the circumstances surrounding Saturday night lead me to believe that no matter how well prepared we are, if someone intends to do you harm, and you are not expecting an attack there is little or nothing you can do about it. In actual fact, I think we should not be put into a position to have to defend ourselves. Why, when we have prison system, a judicial system and all the care in the world for these "poor victims of society" that commit offences do we still have rising cases of assault. Perhaps a New York style "3 strikes and you get life". Perhaps if we made the prison system a far more unpleasant place to be, returned to the days of slopping out and took the televisions, playstations and other luxuries of these scumbags, and legthened the prison sentences considerably (converting months to years for instance) they may think twice about commiting these acts of violence. I'm a bit sick of this bleeding heart approcach to people who couldn't give a stuff about the consequences of their actions. Behave like an animal, be treated like an animal. I don't want to have to walk down the street with my wife and child tooled up to defend myself and my family. I want people to be deterred from ever considering an attack on another person...  |
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This guy has the right idea  (recieved via email sometime last year....)TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO, HE IS THE MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFF (ARIZONA) AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER AGAIN. These are some of the reasons why: * Sheriff Joe Arpaio created the "tent city jail" to save Arizona from spending tens of million of dollars on another expensive prison complex. * He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them. * He banned smoking and porno magazines in the jails, and took away their weightlifting equipment and cut off all but "G" movies. He says: "they're in jail to pay a f##king debt to society not to build muscles so they can assault innocent people when they leave." * He started chain gangs to use the inmates to do free work on county and city projects and save taxpayer's money. * Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination. * He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only allows the Disney channel and the weather channel. * When asked why the weather channel he replied: "so these morons will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs." * He cut off coffee because it has zero nutritional value and is therefore a waste of taxpayer money. When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the Ritz Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back." * He also bought the Newt Gingrich lecture series on US history that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series that actually tells the truth for a change would be welcome and that it might even explain why 95% of the inmates were in his jails in the first place. * With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees set a new record for June 2nd 2006), the Associated Press reports: About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed- wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts. * Hundreds of men wearing pink boxer shorts were chatting in the tents, where temperatures reached 128 degrees. "This is hell. It feels like we live in a furnace," said Ernesto Gonzales, an inmate for 2 years with 10 more to go. "It's inhumane." * Joe Arpaio, who makes his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic. "Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for parole, only to go out and commit more crimes so they can come back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things many taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves." * He told all the inmates who were complaining of the heat in the tents: "It's between 120 to 130 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to walk all day in the sun, wearing full battle gear and get shot at, and they have not committed any crimes, so shut your damned mouths!" * Way to go, Sheriff! If all prisons were like yours there would be a lot less crime and we would not be in the current position of running out of prison spaces. Sheriff Joe was just re-elected Sheriff in Maricopa County, Arizona... |
Pt 1 - ACPO, the non accountable and unelected arm of the Police. Pt 2 - Legalities? Well as the criminals seem to ignore the 'legal' bit, I don't think we should worry overtly either, and well as our American friends would say, tis better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. |
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From the ACPO website: The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) is an independent, professionally led strategic body. In the public interest and, in equal and active partnership with Government and the Association of Police Authorities, ACPO leads and coordinates the direction and development of the police service in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. In times of national need ACPO - on behalf of all chief officers - coordinates the strategic policing response. Please do not confuse the views, objectives and actions of this organisation with those of officers involved in frontline policing. As for the second bit, that is a matter for your own discretion but you can take heart from the fact that the prisons are full..... |
And there was us thinking the Home Secretary was in charge of the Police and it's direction and development…  Part Duex: In over 30 year's I have found 99% of Officers of the rank of Sergeant and below to be realists and on my side. |
ACPO or Home Office, not much to choose between them really, one advises and recommends, the other decides and implements based on their political perspective. The rest of us just try and get on with the job as best we can within the parameters set for us. Just like any other Public Sector body.
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Kommisar Brunstom sets his own agenda |
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