Posted: 7/20/2013 4:50:30 AM EDT
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Sorry if this is a dupe.
Are we living in a police state? It's hard to say no these days. http://www.infowars.com/florida-nurse-terrorized-by-us-marshals/ |
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Made hot. http://www.infowars.com/florida-nurse-terrorized-by-us-marshals/
According to one of the guys in the GD thread officer Wiggins is a member here. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1510498_Police_raid_felt_like_home_invasion___it_could_have_ended_VERY_badly__.html&page=1 |
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Personally I don't care what they have to do to get these people off of the streets. I wonder if you would feel that way if something like this happen to you? So you're saying you would give up all your rights to help find someone you don't know accused of a crime? |
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I wonder if you would feel that way if something like this happen to you? So you're saying you would give up all your rights to help find someone you don't know accused of a crime? Quoted:
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Personally I don't care what they have to do to get these people off of the streets. I wonder if you would feel that way if something like this happen to you? So you're saying you would give up all your rights to help find someone you don't know accused of a crime? I'll have to wonder too, it has yet to happen . They (LE) were looking for a felony suspect. That may or may not have been in that house. The people in the house had taken a course of action that triggered a direct response from the LEO. I have to wonder how you would go about finding these type of people and bringing them to justice. While still managing to go home at the end of the day. I don't have a problem cooperating with LE while they are in the performance of their duty's. I don't expect you to agree with this,,, but the way I see it the dumb bitch brought this upon herself. Don't put words in my mouth 
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Here's what I think is an additional dimension to the issue. Warrior Cop |
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That whole article is slanted one way. No were in it do I see where they mention the # of very dangerous criminals that are taken off the streets by these units. I fail to see how anyone could think about sending some patrol cop to bring some of these guys in . Are they over the top perhaps. Are there more BGs now then ever before? I'm sure there is. The whole war on drugs is another story. We all know that is a money making bizz with a budget last year of over 25 BILLION and growing. They are losing that war big time. But at the same time to many profit from it. 
If you don't know the WHOLE story,, watch this movie. You'll know then. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxRVhgbVN9o |
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Quoted: That whole article is slanted one way. No were in it do I see where they mention the # of very dangerous criminals that are taken off the streets by these units. Quoted: That whole article is slanted one way. No were in it do I see where they mention the # of very dangerous criminals that are taken off the streets by these units. I'm certain Pasco County SD was feeling mighty safe when they rolled up in their Lenco Bearcat to confront a suicidal man locked in a shed.  I look at the justification of these units as the same logic the left uses over gun control, i.e. "if it saves just one life it's worth giving up the guns..."  |
The fact of this matter is the bulk of these units are serving search warrants for DRUGS and or busting drug dealers ! That's were the money comes from for funding. They also take on jobs that the average patrol cop is in NO way capable of doing. Training and equipping every cop out there to respond to every type of threat is not cost effective. Do bad things happen to good people ? Sure they do. But the odds are much much higher that it's a BG that will do you or a loved one harm then it is a LEO. Should we turn a blind eye to some of the scum of the earth and let them roam free ? Or risk losing more of the good people while taking this scum off the streets ? Maybe you have a better plan. I like the one that seems to be working now. 
I think your logic is flawed.
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So how did the jobs get done before there was SWAT? Quoted:
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They also take on jobs that the average patrol cop is in NO way capable of doing. I think your logic is flawed. So how did the jobs get done before there was SWAT? Then just like now a lot of LEO were ex MIL. Do you really think that back in the 50s we had the same type of problems we have now and on the same scale ? Take a good look at the bank robbery rates. The Hollywood hold up had a lot to do with how LE deals with things now. Forget the war on drugs now that is ALL BS. I could cut the crime rate in 1/2 in this country in no time. Legalize drugs. Let them have all they want and it would still be cheaper than what we spend on the war on drugs. Keep in mind when the drugs are no longer illegal they will be dirt cheap too. People want freedom I say give it to them then ! They will not have to go out and steal for the money to buy them and in no time flat. They will no longer be a problem at all either. I'm thinking a good number of them will OD. The drug cartel would soon be out of a job too. Two birds with one stone. It would work but will never happen. Why ? To many people are in on the take. Money might not buy happiness but it will buy everyone else and will help one to forget how unhappy they are. We as a country are the #1 consumer of drugs world wide. War on drugs ,,,,right.
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Quoted: Then just like now a lot of LEO were ex MIL. Do you really think that back in the 50s we had the same type of problems we have now and on the same scale ? Take a good look at the bank robbery rates. The Hollywood hold up had a lot to do with how LE deals with things now. Forget the war on drugs now that is ALL BS. I could cut the crime rate in 1/2 in this country in no time. Legalize drugs. Let them have all they want and it would still be cheaper than what we spend on the war on drugs. Keep in mind when the drugs are no longer illegal they will be dirt cheap too. People want freedom I say give it to them then ! They will not have to go out and steal for the money to buy them and in no time flat. They will no longer be a problem at all either. I'm thinking a good number of them will OD. The drug cartel would soon be out of a job too. Two birds with one stone. It would work but will never happen. Why ? To many people are in on the take. Money might not buy happiness but it will buy everyone else and will help one to forget how unhappy they are. We as a country are the #1 consumer of drugs world wide. War on drugs ,,,,right. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They also take on jobs that the average patrol cop is in NO way capable of doing. I think your logic is flawed. So how did the jobs get done before there was SWAT? Then just like now a lot of LEO were ex MIL. Do you really think that back in the 50s we had the same type of problems we have now and on the same scale ? Take a good look at the bank robbery rates. The Hollywood hold up had a lot to do with how LE deals with things now. Forget the war on drugs now that is ALL BS. I could cut the crime rate in 1/2 in this country in no time. Legalize drugs. Let them have all they want and it would still be cheaper than what we spend on the war on drugs. Keep in mind when the drugs are no longer illegal they will be dirt cheap too. People want freedom I say give it to them then ! They will not have to go out and steal for the money to buy them and in no time flat. They will no longer be a problem at all either. I'm thinking a good number of them will OD. The drug cartel would soon be out of a job too. Two birds with one stone. It would work but will never happen. Why ? To many people are in on the take. Money might not buy happiness but it will buy everyone else and will help one to forget how unhappy they are. We as a country are the #1 consumer of drugs world wide. War on drugs ,,,,right. All well and good but it doesn't answer the question does it. Dangerous felons were around back then too and someone had to go gitter done. Motorcycle gangs, black panthers, murderers, gangs, and even drugs. Wasn't military tactics that did the job, it was beat cops and detectives. |
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Quoted: And that is why we lost a lot of those street cops who got in over their heads, not trained or equipped properly. The FBI Uniform Crime Report doesn't support your statement. Since 1986, the average number of officers killed per year has averaged at a rate of 60-70. Yet the number of SWAT squads went from 13% in towns with between 25,000 and 50,000 people in 1983. By 2005, the figure was up to 80%. So an increase in SWAT teams has had no effect on the rate of officer death rates over time. |
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The FBI Uniform Crime Report doesn't support your statement. Since 1986, the average number of officers killed per year has averaged at a rate of 60-70. Yet the number of SWAT squads went from 13% in towns with between 25,000 and 50,000 people in 1983. By 2005, the figure was up to 80%. So an increase in SWAT teams has had no effect on the rate of officer death rates over time. Quoted:
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And that is why we lost a lot of those street cops who got in over their heads, not trained or equipped properly. The FBI Uniform Crime Report doesn't support your statement. Since 1986, the average number of officers killed per year has averaged at a rate of 60-70. Yet the number of SWAT squads went from 13% in towns with between 25,000 and 50,000 people in 1983. By 2005, the figure was up to 80%. So an increase in SWAT teams has had no effect on the rate of officer death rates over time. Your not going to eliminate ALL cop killings. How do you know that the increase in SWAT teams has not kept the cop death toll from going up ? I think I did answer your ? But you never answered mine. Do you really think we have the same amounts and types of crimes today that we had back in the 50s or 60s or even the 70s for that matter ? |
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Quoted: How do you know that the increase in SWAT teams has not kept the cop death toll from going up ? That's a very valid question and would take alot more data than is available to me to answer. The data isn't correlated to employment/population increase. But until there is any evidence to the contrary, I don't see any support for tigerdvr's statement. Originally Posted By ReefRaider Do you really think that back in the 50s we had the same type of problems we have now and on the same scale ? To answer your question about different crime between now and then, I don't know of any different types. Do you? I'm guessing you think things are more dangerous now than the "good old days"? I don't buy it. The scale may be different because of population increases but then too, as implied above, employment in police departments have increased too. Until someone does a study comparing those parameters none of us can make any claims one way or the other. My position is simply that the militarization of the police is not necessary. Give me hard facts to show otherwise; until then it ain't because you say it is. |
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If you put all the politics and Molon Labe stuff to the side....
If you had to respond to a call for shots fired/barricaded subject with hostages/people in structure, in a urban enviorment. Subject has long guns and handguns, shooting out windows randomly. You are the cop, with a family to go home to at the end of the shift. Would you rather roll up in your squad or in a bearcat? Would you like to have soft armor or plates? Would you like to have a rifle too? How about hostage rescue training? Look up the history of Bonnie and Clyde, Derringer and all them. They had cops with BARs and Thompsons after them. Just didn't have any fancy ninja outfits back then. |
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Cyber crime to name one. Also gang activities are way up so is bank robberys. Serial killers is on the rise. We as a county inprison more of our citizen's. Than any other county. Are we a police state? Sure we are. To think that these SWAT teams are not better trained and equipped to deal with it, ,, well would be in denial of the facts.
Ask yourself this. If you were taken hostage anywhere in this country. Who would you rather come to your aid? Joe blow patrol cop, ,,or a highly trained SWAT member? |
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If you put all the politics and Molon Labe stuff to the side.... If you had to respond to a call for shots fired/barricaded subject with hostages/people in structure, in a urban enviorment. Subject has long guns and handguns, shooting out windows randomly. You are the cop, with a family to go home to at the end of the shift. Would you rather roll up in your squad or in a bearcat? Would you like to have soft armor or plates? Would you like to have a rifle too? How about hostage rescue training? Look up the history of Bonnie and Clyde, Derringer and all them. They had cops with BARs and Thompsons after them. Just didn't have any fancy ninja outfits back then. You used it before I could type it on my phone.
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Your using this to justify SWAT? OK. I'm done. 
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Cyber crime to name one. Your using this to justify SWAT? OK. I'm done.
He was just naming a crime that has come about recently. As you stated that there has been no new crime since the early 20th century. Which made me as well.
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Your using this to justify SWAT? OK. I'm done.
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Cyber crime to name one. Your using this to justify SWAT? OK. I'm done.
Now your putting words in my mouth too.. But side step it all you want. Your right about one thing we are done, . GB out |