Posted: 5/26/2013 8:18:03 AM EDT
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Bought a house last year and received my tax statement in the mail, along with my homestead exemption form. Same form I mailed in months ago that vanished and never made into their system and pissed me off with the info contained in it. But anyway, turn in HS form and asked about filing an informal protest.
Met with tax protest clerk and they pulled up my property on the computer as per the MLS system and said the system says you paid X amount for the property which matches what the 2013 tax appraisal is for. Well, there went the sails out of my protest. Continue on or say fuck it Update: Did a formal protest and argued that the property in question has only rose a certain percentage over the past 15 years, despite bubbles, and that the recent valuation far exceeds that percentage rise. Said property should really be valued at X amount with X% rise. 2 minute speech and it was accepted. |
| So you just paid X for the house because it was worth X and they want to base your property taxes on X, that's the way it works. It's not like your an seventy year old man on Social Security who bought a house in 1950 for $15,000 that is now valued at $500,000 because it is in River Oaks. |
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We also bought a house last year in Denton County (July 2012). Rcvd our property tax statement and they had the property valued at $25K over what we paid. Submitted our protest on 5/20 and received the adjusted value statement on 5/24. They adjusted the value to what we paid in 2012.
What is your justification for protesting the assessed value? |
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So you just paid X for the house because it was worth X and they want to base your property taxes on X, that's the way it works. It's not like your an seventy year old man on Social Security who bought a house in 1950 for $15,000 that is now valued at $500,000 because it is in River Oaks. Yeah, I just surprised that they have actually automated/integrated everything and takes their guess work out of it. Years ago none of the sales info was available to them and they relied on guestimates and driving by every other year to evaluate the area and sent out notices, be they right or wrong/high or low. At least my taxes will be streamlined a bit as my last house was in the city of Dallas and sat split right on the Denton/Collin county line. Ended up getting 3 different tax notices. |
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in your case, you really don't have a leg to stand on.
Unless you really over paid for your house based on comps in your area. What you paid is probably lower than the comps and so you are done. Be aware next year they will try to hike it, which is what I am going to fight this year. We just had an aprasile done to boot, since we refinaced, and they felt that wasn't good enough. pulling comps showed even with the average solds, they are over nearly 10k. |
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You don't like the tax value?...
Nobody likes the taxes, and your issue here is not the cad but the taxing entities. You just bought a house for______ the cad has the house on for _______, so in your case the sales models created by the cad seem correct and an fair and equal valuation is being put in your house relative to real estate market in your area. At this point if you want to lower your taxes (which the cad doesn't care about anyway) then start attending the meetings for the taxing entities which you are beholden too, start with the isd that's where the most money goes from your taxes |
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We also bought a house last year in Denton County (July 2012). Rcvd our property tax statement and they had the property valued at $25K over what we paid. Submitted our protest on 5/20 and received the adjusted value statement on 5/24. They adjusted the value to what we paid in 2012. What is your justification for protesting the assessed value? Denton county here also.. same situation and a refi a year later.. Just take your HUD Closing statement with you to the tax office... They'll bring your tax value down to whatever sales price you closed on... its that simple and it shouldn't even make it to the tax board. I know they use an appraisal software similar to MLS if not its pretty darn close to it... These "zones" they use are not always a fair appraisal of your home. |
| Aside from the "market value" appeal, the Texas property tax code also always a taxpayer to appeal their value based on Equity. Make sure similar properties are valued the same. If they increased yours because of your sale but left your neighbors alone, you may have an argument. If you rr comps also increased in vale, just make sure you are being treated equally. |
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FYI If a CAD is adjusting individual properties to sale prices then that's a NO-NO per the tax code That's what they were doing. Guy at the CAD showed me the MLS screen, same one realtors used, even had the selling agents info on it still. This is why deed should say "$10 and other considerations". MLS shows what the property was priced at, so what? Your actual sales price is negotiated between the parties and not public. |
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Commrades, we should gladly pay the purported value of our property to the STATE..
the state gives us Fine schools for our youth, most of whom can't read,,and amazing bridges and roads we spend hours a day on.. remember too food, housing and health care to the poor and indigent and migrating aliens and lets face it..it's for the chilRn... or we can get an 12% sales tax or that state income tax so many other bastions of liberty have,,like the Peoples socialists state of New York and Commiefornia.. argue a bit, karp where you can..get some comp's in your neighborhood and do your best.. go back next year, rinse and repeat...being disabled and mostly old..mine was easy and locked in for ever... 
but, remember, if you're planning on moving. upgrading in the next 5 years, your're gonna want that appraised value/tax levy to be pretty close.. CHEF |
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Quoted: Quoted: FYI If a CAD is adjusting individual properties to sale prices then that's a NO-NO per the tax code That's what they were doing. Guy at the CAD showed me the MLS screen, same one realtors used, even had the selling agents info on it still. Why is that a no-no? As for property taxes, I think I would much rather do away with all other taxes and have a consumption tax or whatever they call it whenever I spend money I pay the tax. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: FYI If a CAD is adjusting individual properties to sale prices then that's a NO-NO per the tax code That's what they were doing. Guy at the CAD showed me the MLS screen, same one realtors used, even had the selling agents info on it still. This is why deed should say "$10 and other considerations". MLS shows what the property was priced at, so what? Your actual sales price is negotiated between the parties and not public. The deeds do if you paid cash. If you financed, the mortgage note will be recorded and say how much the mortgage is for. |
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FYI If a CAD is adjusting individual properties to sale prices then that's a NO-NO per the tax code That's what they were doing. Guy at the CAD showed me the MLS screen, same one realtors used, even had the selling agents info on it still. This is why deed should say "$10 and other considerations". MLS shows what the property was priced at, so what? Your actual sales price is negotiated between the parties and not public. MLS listed the amount next to an entry Last Sold Price: |
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It's a NO-NO because real property is valued using mass apprisal. Models are devolved by each county to reflect what property is selling for in the area. So by adjusting value to the sale price you are then overriding the model which everybody is being valued at creating a equity issue. How would you feel if you paid 10k over market value, could the CAD then adjust to the sale price? Also keep in mind not all sales are valid to use in a sales model. If a person owner finances a house they may take 20k less than market value, only to charge 20% interest and hope that at some point the owners will default to start the process over again. Sale prices between relatives may not always reflect market value. The same goes for forclosures.
As for paying money to the state, really? You know your property tax dollars are supplementing entities set forth by your county. So here is the double eged sword. If you pay less in taxes, do you want less in service, same is true with more. If an entity adopts a higher tax rate will you realize the benefit. |
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Update:
Did a formal protest and argued that the property in question has only rose a certain percentage over the past 15 years, despite bubbles, and that the recent valuation far exceeds that percentage rise. Said property should really be valued at X amount with X% rise. 2 minute speech and it was accepted. |
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I'm glad you won but to me the ARB process is a joke. The ARB members typically have little or no concept of mass appraisal and even then some want the job just because they have a agenda that is anti CAD/Property taxes. There is no equity in
In the descions. Like I said I'm glad you won and hope you had compeling data such as a comps or some internal damage that the descion was awarded in your favor. If you didn't then that is why the system is flawed. |
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What is your justification for protesting the assessed value? Didn't like the tax value Fuck n A Never fuckin ever tell them what you paid for the house you may just fuck all your neighbors out of thousands of dollars. Never fuckin ever let the cad on your property or in your house. you will cost yourself thousands of dollars. Never fuckin ever give a fuckin inch when arguing with the cad. You may just fuck all your neighbors again. If { and they will } insult you , get fucking mean and nasty and get the bitch fired that fucked with you . Never fuckin buy in to that bull shit that you want a higher valuation because you are going to sell. Your house will sell for what it is worth and if the new owner is smart he will hold the line on what you fought for for the last 20 years. He will walk in and see what you have been hiding from the cad for the last 20 years and pay you what it is worth. All properties should be locked in at what they are worth the day you bought it and be taxed according . As it is the cad is told to do the dirty work for the politicians who sometimes still raise your taxes when the cad is fucking you every fucking year. |
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Butt hurt much???
If you don't like the current system of ad valoreum taxing then talk to your legislators. I bet if you actually understood how the property tax system works and would try to understand it with an open mind you find it's fair and gives it gives a tax payer many opportunities to protest the value |
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Butt hurt much??? If you don't like the current system of ad valoreum taxing then talk to your legislators. I bet if you actually understood how the property tax system works and would try to understand it with an open mind you find it's fair and gives it gives a tax payer many opportunities to protest the value LMAO Ever watched Oil/Gas... when ever a hurricane is FORECASTED to hit an Oil Rig the price of Gas IMMEDIATELY jumps up significantly, after the hurricane passes and no damage is done it takes weeks or months for the price to go back down. From the day I purchased my property in Michigan some 15 years ago the value went up every year until 2008 and the taxes went up every year as well.. I think they dropped in 2011 for the first time.. some 3 years after the market collapsed and values went down.. properties in my neighborhood all went down immediately..but my taxes took 3 years to drop and even then they didn't drop enough, just 'enough' to keep most people to go through the hassle of fighting to get them lowered. I would bet the same situation is going on here in Texas and in fact all over the U.S., all of the idiotic politicians spend the taxpayers money like it's growing on trees...if we were smart we would start cutting out the politicians, we could get by with 50% of them and if we got caught up with technology and advancements we could eliminate 75% of them and just allow for most voting to be done by the taxpayers not some 'representative' why waste my time writing to some DB in some office when I could just vote for myself. I'm going to laugh when the next Housing Bubble Bursts.. I hope you all start getting prepared for it. Don't get into any bidding wars for a house..and buy a house that you can afford to pay tax increases on every year as they tax you more and more. HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF... taxes being able to go up every year while you are still making the same amount of money every year is a TICKING TIME BOMB... When you buy a home you know what the taxes are currently at, not what they will be in the future. The bank finances you based on the CURRENT tax rate..and as your taxes increase the likelihood of you defaulting on the loan increase.. but that is what they want anyways (Rich Politicians want you to give them your money this is just another way they will get it) The answer is not Tax Increases nor is it New Taxes on things like Soda, State Income, or Gun Insurance.. the answer is for the Government to finally learn how to spend money according to a budget, stop promoting things like welfare..and stupidity like allowing natural disaster areas to be developed. Perhaps it's time to look on Online Schooling to keep kids focused on LEARNING and not being bullied or scared of being shot, being teased, learning what clicks are..etc... probably should have middle schools and high schools be taught more online..it eliminates a lot of overhead costs.. The solution is to OVERHAUL the government.. they could even make a TV show out of it for all of the idiotic mindless people who are spellbound by it! Anyways back to Property Taxes... they should be stuck at a rate that is given to you BEFORE you buy the house, before you sign any contract and they should stay the same until you sell the house! |
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As long as a property tax system is in place, citizens do not enjoy the liberty of true private property ownership. Yes sir you win. When people view the accumulation of property to own for pleasure as a liability, you know your private property rights have been infringed. |
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So you have no conceptual idea how property taxes in Texas work, as related the real estate market and the taxing entities which property taxes serve? Well it's 'Ad Valorem' and yes I have an 'idea' how it works, it works much like Michigan's does and it's a bit higher than Michigan's as well, not to mention it's in the same category of 'TOO FUCKING HIGH' or in other words it's convoluted! Less Government, Less Taxes, More Personal Responsibility, Less Politics, Less Politicians.... In Michigan there are ways to get your property taxes lowered if they are realistically too high according to 'the system' ie not someone just saying they pay too much! My 'dad' tells me all about taxes and he pays more per year than I make...I know more than I ever wanted to know.. what I also know is the 'system' is purposely convoluted in order to allow the Rich to maintain control of the system and keep most of their money, ie they can deduct most of their taxes so that they pay very little of what % they are charged with. For the Mainstream people..ie 'Middle Class Working Man' there are little tax deductions other than Children. I have heard many people around Texas talk about how much the schools around here SUCK BALLS.. I don't have any kids and if I ever do I will probably home-school anyways but I find it funny(STUPID) that the schools suck balls and the school taxes are so high everywhere (not just mansfield) and there are idiots trying to spend $1million on a football scoreboard which serves no educational purpose other than 'how to become a useless politician' not to mention the 'lotteries' take in millions/billions a year and they are supposed to go mostly to schools....yet the schools suck? mostly the idiots and their children suck is what I gather but nobody wants to be the idiot parent nor do they want an idiot as a child so let's place the blame 'elsewhere' because  anyway I have more than a conceptual idea of how property taxes in Texas work, I have a reality as to how they DO NOT WORK!
But I'm not smart at all... My 'dad' a self-proclaimed millionaire, who supposedly owns 60+ houses over $250,000 in value told me Michigan's housing market would be recovering two years ago.. 3 or 4 years ago when he told me this I told him he better stop buying up all these foreclosures before he runs out of money because I expect michigan to recover no sooner than 5 years and probably more like 8..so far he is WRONG and I am RIGHT and he is supposedly the 'smart businessman'... he is smart at being a businessman.. but he is getting caught up in seeing houses as a profit that he may get in over his head like so many other millionaires have... not to mention if people keep fleeing michigan he could end up bankrupt... anyways what did you want to tell me about texas property taxes that you think I don't already know? I'm not saying I know everything but I don't think your going to tell me anything that changes my opinion of them.. and I don't buy the argument that Income Tax should be used and Property Taxes cut by implementing property taxes, I don't buy any crap that you can argue about lowering your taxes on property you own.. in other words...I know you can try and even possibly succeed at it.. but I feel the overall idea for the good of this country is that the government needs to FIX ITSELF and quit taxing the shit out of people so they can WASTE more of 'our' money! |
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Property taxes are dictated by county wide politicians, as property taxes are one of the couple ways county enities are funded. Those entities being the cities,schools, roads, water districts, emergency districts, JUCO/colleges, and the county itself. Those taxing jurisdictions are voted on by citizens of your county. The only people that can change how mass Appraisel or how the property tax system works is the elected representatives we send to Austin. The tax rate for each entity is based on the budget deficit after other incomes are added. You vote for the people that establish those rates. So the rates for each entity can go up,down, or stay the same. Now keep in mind those entities provide a service. When they get less money then expect less service or less people or not as good as equipment. Also keep in mind that the workers would like a little raise( if they deserve it) so you can have everything else stagnate but more money going to retain the already trained and experienced employees. So the rate for your property, more likely your city is developed buy the cumulative rate of the independent entities. So in a since you have a flat tax that in a area for every $100 of value everybody pays the same amount.
So how is value determined, the sole purpose of the CAD is there to determine value. They determine the value typically by figuring square footage of something and then attaching a class and deprecation to it (for residential stuff) and income models with a cap rate for commercial stuff. The CAD by definition does not establish the real estate market, they are reactionary to it. What it ultimately boils down to is sales ratios. What is ____ being valued at and what did _____ sale for. Then for residential stuff how much was attributed to the improvements and how much to the land. You can have hotter neighborhood so if your ratios are inline for the improvements and land then the neighborhood is what is driving the sales above market value so then that neighborhood receives a positive adjustment. The same can happen if sales are very low in a area, the neighborhood can receive a negative adjustment. the only downside is the CAD gets about 30-40 % of all the sales. So they will do the best job they can based on the information provided. Also keep in mind that all property for the year is valued as its condition on Jan 1st, so in that case everybody is valued equally. Once the values and sales models are established then notices of appraised value are mailed and a tax payer has 4 chances to protest the value untill they are certified in July. There is is the informal and formal protest, binding arbitration,and district court. So it's a tax rate that's applied equally, based on the local county real estate market, with respect to booming or busting neighborhoods, that has multiple chances of appealing the value, where the tax payer votes on local entity representatives as well as bonds or actions and can vote to change the system by electing legislators in Austin. So with respect to property taxes there is no way the evil rich guys are getting a break, unless you consider the special Ag use Appraisel as a way around the system. But if you do consider Ag exemption as cheating I hope you don't like corn,cows,cotton,rice,grass farms, or catfish. Also people with mineral rights are taxed on the oil/gas that is produced but I don't know exactly how that works. So this is the Texas system in a nutshell, hope you leaned a few things, now back to your regularly scheduled programming |
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Property taxes are dictated by county wide politicians, as property taxes are one of the couple ways county enities are funded. Those entities being the cities,schools, roads, water districts, emergency districts, JUCO/colleges, and the county itself. Those taxing jurisdictions are voted on by citizens of your county. The only people that can change how mass Appraisel or how the property tax system works is the elected representatives we send to Austin. The tax rate for each entity is based on the budget deficit after other incomes are added. You vote for the people that establish those rates. So the rates for each entity can go up,down, or stay the same. Now keep in mind those entities provide a service. When they get less money then expect less service or less people or not as good as equipment. Also keep in mind that the workers would like a little raise( if they deserve it) so you can have everything else stagnate but more money going to retain the already trained and experienced employees. So the rate for your property, more likely your city is developed buy the cumulative rate of the independent entities. So in a since you have a flat tax that in a area for every $100 of value everybody pays the same amount. So how is value determined, the sole purpose of the CAD is there to determine value. They determine the value typically by figuring square footage of something and then attaching a class and deprecation to it (for residential stuff) and income models with a cap rate for commercial stuff. The CAD by definition does not establish the real estate market, they are reactionary to it. What it ultimately boils down to is sales ratios. What is ____ being valued at and what did _____ sale for. Then for residential stuff how much was attributed to the improvements and how much to the land. You can have hotter neighborhood so if your ratios are inline for the improvements and land then the neighborhood is what is driving the sales above market value so then that neighborhood receives a positive adjustment. The same can happen if sales are very low in a area, the neighborhood can receive a negative adjustment. the only downside is the CAD gets about 30-40 % of all the sales. So they will do the best job they can based on the information provided. Also keep in mind that all property for the year is valued as its condition on Jan 1st, so in that case everybody is valued equally. Once the values and sales models are established then notices of appraised value are mailed and a tax payer has 4 chances to protest the value untill they are certified in July. There is is the informal and formal protest, binding arbitration,and district court. So it's a tax rate that's applied equally, based on the local county real estate market, with respect to booming or busting neighborhoods, that has multiple chances of appealing the value, where the tax payer votes on local entity representatives as well as bonds or actions and can vote to change the system by electing legislators in Austin. So with respect to property taxes there is no way the evil rich guys are getting a break, unless you consider the special Ag use Appraisel as a way around the system. But if you do consider Ag exemption as cheating I hope you don't like corn,cows,cotton,rice,grass farms, or catfish. Also people with mineral rights are taxed on the oil/gas that is produced but I don't know exactly how that works. So this is the Texas system in a nutshell, hope you leaned a few things, now back to your regularly scheduled programming Very informative post..Thanks... but I think you are missing the 'overall' point I was making...the rich make the rules and they make them to benefit themselves mostly because typically rich people are greedy..and rich people can write off property taxes.. my dad wrote off taxes (business property) for 2 years maybe more after filing bankruptcy in michigan.. he has a house on lake michigan which he uses to 'entertain' businessmen.. probably writes that off, is he bankrupt? NOPE but can he LEGALLY file it it, avoid a frivilous lawsuit and start over with a clean slate as well as not pay taxes for a few years to boot.. SURE CAN.. granted that is in Michigan, but I suspect much of the same can be done here.. sure it may not be so easily done on personal use property but, it can be done there with some creativity... perhaps you build your house for 'free' because you work out deals between your business and your friends business and both write off the exchanges... a free house is essentially a TAX break.. sure it's not on your taxes.. but would you be able to afford a $300,000 house if you only had to pay the taxes? I'm also sure that there is a lot of WASTE in the system you explained above.. to many people involved, could be automated online via programs, etc.. all of these cost savings could result in a lower tax rate... I can't tell you how many people saw the county drain commissioner in Lansing sitting in his truck playing solitary way more often than 'working' and he never did return even one of my three phone calls? I also realize that farmers need to have help many times because they need to make a profit...not arguing about farmers because most of them I know aren't rich and they work 10-14 hours a day. I think food needs to be affordable so that people can earn enough money to feed themselves...I think your first house should be taxed at a rate of say 1x 'whatever amount' and then your 2nd home should be taxed at a rate of 1.25x and the 3rd house at 2x, the 4th 3x.. this would cut down on rich people buying up foreclosures or houses in general for profit, which would keep housing at a lower cost so more middle class people and poor people can afford a house. |
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Taxes on a $300,000 house are still going to be close to $750/month, if you live in the larger Texas cities. (Maybe half that in rural counties.) Just a thought: Are rural governments that much better at control costs, than big cities/counties? Or do they get more state subsidies, because they have lower taxes? |
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Quoted: typically your more rural counties have a higher tax rate because they don't have the industry to draw on as a tax base so the bulk of it will fall on home owners. Rural counties have higher tax rates? None of the ones around Bexar are higher. Most are much, much lower. In fact they are in the 1.4% to 2.2% range, while Bexar County is 2.6% to 3%, in city limits. |
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typically your more rural counties have a higher tax rate because they don't have the industry to draw on as a tax base so the bulk of it will fall on home owners. Rural counties have higher tax rates? None of the ones around Bexar are higher. Most are much, much lower. In fact they are in the 1.4% to 2.2% range, while Bexar County is 2.6% to 3%, in city limits. I've heard the same as you,, lower in rural areas.. perhaps the difference in property taxes is the SCHOOL TAX? ie the school taxes are so high in the cities but not in rural areas and the other part of the property taxes are higher in the city? not sure on the second part.. I did hear on the radio they were talking about a house out in the country and they had a fire.. lost everything because they have no fire dept close.. it's all volunteer and it took about an hour to get any help... so they were saying that even though the taxes are lower they would prefer to have higher taxes and the protections that a city provides in cases of emergencies.. I think they even mentioned roads not being a priority out in the country but snow removal down here is kind of pointless... pretty sure most counties have a list of tax rates for both school taxes and property taxes...by city..I saw one for Keller/Mansfield/Arlington and Keller is not the 'low tax' area I've heard from many Texans here...School Taxes are the main problem everywhere. I wish people with kids paid for the schools because it would encourage them to be good parents and make sure their kids actually learn rather than 'wank off' all day or bully other kids when they are supposed to be learning.. not to mention I would save money ;) |
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School taxes are included in what I wrote. Many rural areas have paid professional fire fighters, too. that's true but they may have to cover a 50 miles compared to maybe 3 in the big cities.. that's a lot of time to 'burn' pardon the pun... Best thing to do is research it through the county as they usually have a property tax site and an estimator,etc... I don't know that much about the taxes down here.. but I hear things that don't seem to be true.. I don't trust a co-worker from Texas for any info as it doesn't seem to add up.. not that I would live in Keller anyways.. I gave up on living out in the country and having my own gun range.. too much driving..and by the time I retire I'd probably be surrounded by people via expansion anyways.. when I retire I will have time to drive and better yet can just stay out of the city ;) any tax savings by living in a rural area if even 'true' would be eaten up by extra gas expenses! |
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Butt hurt much??? If you don't like the current system of ad valoreum taxing then talk to your legislators. I bet if you actually understood how the property tax system works and would try to understand it with an open mind you find it's fair and gives it gives a tax payer many opportunities to protest the value It is the most fair system in the country. Period. |