[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pulled over while carrying (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/8/2009 3:05:56 PM EDT
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So today I as pulled over for “following to close” to someone, which I think was bull shit, but whatever… I got off with a warning.
When I am driving, my side arm is either in the glove box or holstered on my hip. Today it was under the seat, and out of sight. I handed the officer my license, registration, Concealed Carry Permit, ect and informed him my loaded pistol was under my seat. He instantly, untapped his holster, put his hand on his gun, and demanded I surrender mine. I felt he was over reacting, especially since he already had my permit, which was the first thing I handed him. I advised him that I would half to reach under the seat and pull out the gun and that I did not feel safe that I wouldn’t end up getting shot in the process and he asked I wait outside my car until he was done, which is what happened. He was a bit of a dickhead and mad at me for not controlling my dog who wouldn’t sit still, but didn’t want me moving at all to try and control him. So legally, what am I required to do at a traffic stop? Am I legally required to surrender my sidearm simply because an officer is present? I understand it may be the safest and politest option, but the officer’s demeanor didn’t make me feel safe enough to reach for my gun and hope he doesn’t mistaken any move I make as threatening. |
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What's required is that you present your CPL UPON REQUEST.
You could be charged with interfering with an officer if you don't "follow instructions...". Sounds like this is more the case of a new or nerveous LEO. FWIW, Seems like a lot of guys West of the Cascades run into this with 5-O, I can't say I've had a problem with any LEO encounter this side of the state, outside of the time a neighbor called in a report of "Man with a gun" when I lived in an Apt complex. 
ETA- Being as objective as possible, did you give him any cause for suspicion? Keeping in mind he doesn't know and gets to see mostly the bad side of humanity in the course of his duty.... |
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In my opinion...
A simple traffic violation, you shouldn't have said anything about the firearm. Just give him your license and registration and let the traffic stop take its course. Now if you were doing 150 in a 35mph zone and he was asking you to get out of the car to cuff you and stuff you, then you should have informed him about your permit and the firearm in your holster (if on your person). You're a nice kid, but isn't this the second or third time you've had problems with police where you end up thinking THEY have the problem? While they MAY or MAY NOT be the problem, is there a chance that you are saying something or doing something that is causing this reaction? I got pulled over for speeding a few years back, I had my derringer in my pocket, I gave the officer my license and registration, answered his questions and was sent on my way with a mere "try to slow it down and have a good day" ... |
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Yea, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. This is why I NEVER volunteer ANYTHING to LE, you can only regret it.
And I frankly agree with your decision to not "reach for the gun" only to find yourself on the business end of their twitchy finger... they're going to have a difficult time pushing a "disorderly conduct" on you because you refused to grab a gun when instructed to do so. |
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Sorry - I'll keep my permit in my pocket unless it's requested. If the pistol is properly carried or concealed, it's no issue until things go sideways for some other reason.
If the officer has probable cause and requests the document, produce it and continue to follow instructions VERY CAREFULLY. |
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You need to get yourself a copy of Washington Gun Rights and Responsibilities, it covers all of this and more. Dave is regularly at the SAF table at the WAC shows and I saw Mary's Pistols had a stack of them the last time I was in there.
In WA there is no requirement to notify the police you are carrying. Some people like to hand over their CPL, as you did, and others don't because it can lead to problems, as you found out. You have no requirement to hand over your gun, unless they are arresting you. It is actually quite dangerous for you to do so because the officer may not (probably isn't) familiar with your type of weapon and might put a hole in one or both of you. Some LEO's will thank you and others will be dicks, as you found out. For me personally, I have only shown my CPL to an officer once. That was because I accidentally flashed a movie theater full of people with my Glock in a Uncle Mikes small of the back holster. The Sheriff did not ask to see or handle the gun, and I went back to the movie after giving him my info. On a traffic stop I would only reveal that I'm carrying if I'm going to be getting out of the vehicle. It sounds like the officer you were in contact with may need some more training. You might want to contact his Sargent. |
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In my opinion... A simple traffic violation, you shouldn't have said anything about the firearm. Just give him your license and registration and let the traffic stop take its course. Now if you were doing 150 in a 35mph zone and he was asking you to get out of the car to cuff you and stuff you, then you should have informed him about your permit and the firearm in your holster (if on your person). +1 I need to type faster.... Every time I've been pulled over it's simply never come up. The fact that I had a CPL and was carrying or in Jason's case, had the gun loaded in the car somewhere, was never an issue. I'd let the officer say what he needed to say and I'd respond or answer their questions. To me I always figured that the simple mention of a gun would trip the officer's "red flag" detector and he would immediately go on the defensive. What could be thought of as a courtesy can be taken as the exact opposite in their eyes; who again I'm assuming want this traffic stop to go as smoothly and routine as possible, without the mention of guns. |
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I've been stopped a couple of times while carrying and I always make sure that when the cop gets to the window that the engine is off, hazards are on, if night the dome light is on. I have my hands at 10 & 2 and tell him right off that I have a permit and am carrying, that way if he happens to see it there are no misunderstandings.
I've never been asked to surrender it. Even in Western WA. In Montana my pistol was in the center consol and the trooper asked me to step out of the car until the contact was over. That was the only time I got a ticket in the last 20 years but it was only $20 and didn't go on my record. |
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the Concealed Weapon Permit was the first thign i handed him. So by not handing him my pistol as well, I could get arrested for "not following instructions" 
Good to know. No, NO, NO, NO.........one more time! NO. You are required to hand it over when ASKED. It's been the subject of more than a few threads here as to "do I or Don't I" hand over the permit. to each his own, within the interpretation of the statute. Me, personally? I hand it over, along with my DL, Insurance card, Reg, and mil ID, but I also adjust my demeanor to fit the officer's, meaning I give them every reason to think I am a "good guy". By NOT following instructions without good cause, you can be arrested/charged with interferance....just as "resisting arrest" can be applied if you don't place your hands behind your back when asked to do so. |
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Yes, this is my second incident. First one was over where I was target shooting.
I guess I always assumed that telling the officer was common courtesy... Could I have been an ass? Maybe. He kept asking me to speak louder as we were on I––5 and I used "yes sir" and "no sir" when answering his questions. I guess maybe not telling what does not need to be known is better. But say if it is on your hip, do you need to surrender the weapon upon request if the officer see’s it? Doesn't sound safe. ETA: Most of the conversation was fine. Neither of us raised our voices or over-reacted. The only part I didnt like is how he complained about my dog which isnt really that important to the topic.
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Yes, this is my second incident. First one was over where I was target shooting. I guess I always assumed that telling the officer was common courtesy... Could I have been an ass? Maybe. He kept asking me to speak louder as we were on I––5 and I gave simply "yes sir" "no sir" answers. I guess maybe not telling what does not need to be known is better. But say if it is on your hip, do you need to surrender the weapon upon request if the officer see’s it? Doesn't sound safe. This would be a tough one for me as I carry a G-19 with a round chambered, and it would be safer for it to remain holstered. I think I would tell the officer I am carrying a glock with a round chambered and I feel safer not upholstering it and see what he or she says. Stacey |
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Where exactly was this? was it WSP, SPD, KCS, what agency was it that this officer was working with?
Rules when encountering cops at a traffic stop. Just hand your drivers license and registration, they are not asking for anything else. HOWEVER if your gun is in your glove box and your registration is there as well you might want to tell the officer "Officer my registration is in the glove box and I have a firearm there, should I still get it?" At this point they will tell you what to do. BUT if you have it under your seat or on your person YOU keep your mouth shut. UNLESS THEY ASK... and they have no reason to ask. If for some reason you have to get out of the vehicle and your gun is on your person you should tell the officer. He will tell you what to do. If you're like me (and keep one in the chamber) you might want to tell the officer as you are handing over your firearm that A it's loaded and B it has a round in the chamber so they should be careful. That will "minimize" the you getting shot... I have a friend who got stopped and the cop put a 45 through his (police car) because when my friend handed his 1911 over (he doesnt keep the safety on) the cop accidentally pulled the trigger and there was a round in the chamber; he didn't tell the cop and bang... Granted it was the cops fault for handling the firearm improperly. BUT Better safe than sorry. Oh and when you grab it DO NOT grab it by the grip, cops get iffy at that shit. If they ask you to leave the vehicle LOCK it behind you after you step out; This prevents the officer from just looking through your car if you "leave the door open to invite him in" what they will usually do is ask you to check your car while they are already half way in and you are stuck on "uhm wha?"... remember it's not a rape illegal-search unless you say no...  
But overall don't act like a dumb ass, act like you have nothing to hide and be "truthful" to the officer, it's like when you are in the confessional you do not tell the priest EVERYTHING, just what he needs to know to give you your penitence and for you to feel raped better after they give you your ticket. |
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Yes, this is my second incident. First one was over where I was target shooting. I guess I always assumed that telling the officer was common courtesy... Could I have been an ass? Maybe. He kept asking me to speak louder as we were on I––5 and I gave simply "yes sir" "no sir" answers. I guess maybe not telling what does not need to be known is better. But say if it is on your hip, do you need to surrender the weapon upon request if the officer see’s it? Doesn't sound safe. This would be a tough one for me as I carry a G-19 with a round chambered, and it would be safer for it to remain holstered. I think I would tell the officer I am carrying a glock with a round chambered and I feel safer not upholstering it and see what he or she says. Stacey When you take it out of the holster dont "grip" the grip you just use your palm and forefinger to pull it out and flip it on your hand and hand it to the officer grip first. This way it seems that they have control of the weapon and you do not look like you are trying to shoot them. HOWEVER remember the 4 rules and don't point it at yourself or the officer, keep it pointed to the side AND advice the officer of the round in the chamber. |
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Haha! You thought you'd pull the old "tell Stadank I'm packing and get out of a ticket' routine?!
Some guys have used that technique with great success. I try not to invite Stadank into my life. If I do have to interact with him I don't volunteer any extra info. Some dumb asses talk themselves right into trouble. A little STFU goes a long way. This is some good stuff if you haven't seen it before. A lawyer and a cop both tell you to STFU. Lengthy, but well worth the time. STFU1 STFU2 |
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I always give my CPL, but let them make the first move regarding asking about firearms on myself or in the vehicle.
Usually they don't care too much so long as you have a good attitude and keep your hands in plain sight. I've only had one stater (motorcycle cop) be a total dick about it and he ineptly tried to unload my 1911 with it pointed at freeway traffic. He didn't understand the safety, ignored the fact that the hammer was back, had his finger on the trigger, was wearing gloves and had reduced tactile perception. I was afraid for traffic on I-5 that day......Hell, I was afraid he'd do something retarded and then blame it on me.....
Other then that though, it's all been good. Oh yea, and most of them have no problem shaking hands either.........until recently.....
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... to each his own, within the interpretation of the statute. Me, personally? I hand it over, along with my DL, Insurance card, Reg, and mil ID, but I also adjust my demeanor to fit the officer's, meaning I give them every reason to think I am a "good guy". This. ^^^^^ That gives the LEO more information. Which usually ends up in a warning instead of a ticket. Following a strict set of "rules" will eventually get you in trouble. Flexibility will keep you out of trouble... unless you like your rules so much that you enjoy the trouble. |
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In this state we clearly do NOT have a duty to "notify". Some states do, ours does not.
I have dealt with many cops over the years, in various situations, including but not limited to being pulled over. I have NEVER "informed". I am not required to, and I feel it unecessarily complicates the situation. I know that I am no threat to that officer. He does not. No reason to put him/her under any undue stress. And having others handle my firearms while loaded, cop or not, isn't the safest thing, sometimes. I would only ever "inform", if I were directly asked the question "do you have any weapons on you/on board", etc. or if the officer HAS to put his hands on me, for whatever reason. At that point I will always let them know I'm armed. Until one of those 2 things happens (hasn't yet), I see no reason to bring it up. From what I understand, they don't know you hold a CPL just by "running your plate" or your ID. They have to do a "CPL check" to know this information. However, I am ALL FOR cooperation. I always remember that the thing they call "officer safety" is paramount in their minds, as it should be. If a cop wants to momentarily take my firearms for that reason, I will absolutely let him, cooperate, and probably remind him/her to be careful, as they are loaded, same as THEIRS are. Doing as we're told and cooperating is the best way to avoid being accidentally shot, I feel. However, unless a defensive shooting has ocurred, or something like that, or some kind of "defensive" encounter, they have no reason to be handling my weapons. Therefore I see no reason to volunteer this information, unless asked. |
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When will peple get it that an LEOs job is not to figure out if you're a good guy or a bad guy? That's the judges call. Likewise, it's not the LEOs job to take your side, that's your attorneys job.
An LEOs job is to collect whatever evidence they can, so that the prosecuting attorney can charge you with as many crimes as they can prove (and sometimes others). 
DON'T FUCKING EVER VOLUNTEER ANYTHING! It's great to let them know you're reasonable, not a threat, and even complient, but you're not required to volunteer anything. Do you go to the mall and mention to the clerk that your firearm is in it's holster? No, because they might misunderstand and think you're holding them up. Likewise, there's no need for you to inform an LEO that you're armed. From their point of view, why would you bring it up to them unless you thought the firearm might become an issue? And why would it become an issue, unless you had either ill intent, or were hiding something? Remember, they are collecting evidence, so if they have reason to think there might be something illegal going on, of course they're gonna investigate, and I don't blame them. Just don't bring it up, or make furitive gestures towards it. Once upon a time, I had a pistol sitting on the passenger seat, (that I covered with a textbook when I got pulled over,) and it wasn't even brought up, until he asked me to lean over and get my registration out of the glovebox. I realized that I might bump the book, expose the firearm, and get shot in the back, so I informed him that I had to reach past the firearm to get my insurance. After he consented, I clearly and slowly got the insurance. But now I also had to show him my CPL. He was cool and the stop took it's normal course. I've since learned not to leave a gun there in case I get pulled over. If that guy had been less experienced he coulda freaked on me right there. Another time I got stopped (  ) and I made no mention of it. The firearm was better hidden and I kept my hands on the wheel. When he came back to hand me my papers, he mentioned that his display showed my CPL, and that I hadn't mentioned it to him, he'd seen I didn't have it in my glovebox (a terrible place to keep one), and that he didn't see where I had one in my possesion. I kept my hands on the wheel, explained where/how it was hidden, and nodded towards it. He simply nodded approvingly, handed me my paperwork, and told me to "drive safely". He wasn't bothered at all that I didn't bring it up, because mostly only the good guys get CPLs.
I bring up both storys to show that LEOs don't normally have a problem with stopping an armed person, as long the subject comes up when it might actually matter. If you bring it up at a time that seems unrelated to the rest of the stop, it's gonna raise suspicions. So be honest when it applies, but don't volunteer anything that might raise suspicions. |
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Thanks all…
Let me say that this is nowhere near something I would consider an “incident” or a “bad cop” as I had last year with the target shooting incident. I was just looking for some background info. I think we were both cordial and calm. Like I said, only thing was he was annoyed my dog wouldnt sit still. Which didnt really affect either of us... |
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I would also mention that I recommend always carrying the pistol on you, not in a glovebox, console, or anywhere "unsecured". This is a rule I follow, for me. If I'm in an accident, or have to exit the vehicle quickly, etc. etc., I don't wanna be runnin' away thinkin'.........."oops". And having it on me will always be a faster draw than having to "fetch" it. Just my 2 cents, my personal S.O.P.
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Thanks all… Let me say that this is nowhere near something I would consider an “incident” or a “bad cop” as I had last year with the target shooting incident. I was just looking for some background info. I think we were both cordial and calm. Like I said, only thing was he was annoyed my dog wouldnt sit still. Which didnt really affect either of us... ooo do tell
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I volunteered info when I first got here, and was held at gunpoint for an hour.  Fuck them.
FF a couple years, ended up with a WSP buddy. Weapons are not why I am being detained. Resist the conversation. "Is that why I am being pulled over" That fishing trip is never good, and will end up with my rights being scrutinized for abuse. Fuck them. Was I speeding? Fine. May I have my ticket please. I dont talk guns to cops, they have made it clear time and again my rights are not their priority, only their safety. If they dont know I am packing everyone is much safer. |
| I was in a some what similer situation but the cop was cool. I was pulled over by WSP and handed him my CPL and told him I had a loaded gun in the car. He asked for me to step out to the rear of my car and took my weapon from my glove box. Went back to his patrol car and ran my info, came back then gave me my gun and info then says to me, Thank you for telling me you had a gun in the car, have a nice day. |
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Sorry - I'll keep my permit in my pocket unless it's requested. If the pistol is properly carried or concealed, it's no issue until things go sideways for some other reason. If the officer has probable cause and requests the document, produce it and continue to follow instructions VERY CAREFULLY. +106 I had one cop come back and ask if I was carrying, but I wasn't at the time so I just said no. All the others have just written a ticket. Just last week I asked (after getting the ticket in my hand) if he could see I had a permit on his info. He said yes, but that he hadn't looked for it when he ran my info. Sounds tense Jason. CavVets' sounds like some scary shit. |
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I was stopped once by WSP for running a redlight in a turn lane in Renton. Tired as hell and following a line of traffic through the interesection without looking at the CORRECT light for my lane. Immediately stopped by WSP who witnessed it, and after the usual DL/reg/ins questions he saw an ammo can inthe back seat and asked if I was armed. Having nothing to hide, I said "yes" and he went into "tactical mode" hand on gun ready to draw. Asked me to step out and immediately grabbed my hand when I attempted to place my keys in my pocket. He askedfor my pistol and then unloaded it and placed it in his car. Then proceeded with " why do you carry a gun?" which didn't go very far, "I have a concealed weapons permit.It's legal." "But why?" which got no reply. I got a citation and my unloaded pistol back.
Fast forward to Idaho 4 years or so later. Stopped by ISP for speeding. Trooper asked if there's any firearms in the vehicle, minivan with a family of 4 in rural Idaho. I said "yes" just for fun.The same 'what and where' routine and I volunteered my carry piece, and the wife chimed in she had one also . He asked for both of them, and went back to his car. After a few mintues he came back up cautiously and asked if we had CPLs since they can't find anything for us in the Idaho system. We both handed over our WA CPLs and he came back and asked to place the unloaded guns in the back cargo area of the minivan and requested that we dont load them up until he was gone.
Wasn't a problem since I had a spare loaded Sig226 in my man-bag between the seats. So I've tried to be honest twice and essentially wasted my time, and in the first example had a cop question my choice too carry a firearm at all. I learned my lesson, never volunteer what they dont need to know. As Habu said, it's an investigation from the start of the conversation until one of you leaves the scene, and that might not be the end of it.
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Reminds me of the concealed class I took before I could get a CHL in another state. Part of the class dealt with being pulled over and how to act.
Since it's not valid here, yet WA is there, I applied and received a WA one and was surprised at how easy it is. No class, no range qualification just a sheet of paper and optional $3 laminate. |
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March of 2007 was the last time I volunteered my permit. Pulled over for speeding and I was asked to surrender my sidearm. I told him with all do respect it wasn't in either of our best interest for me to draw a loaded weapon. He asked me again to surrender my weapon and I asked him if I was under arrest. When he stated no I was not I told him I would not surrender my weapon for any other circumstance and suggested to write my citation or send me on my way. He stated that it was for his safety and I suggested I will not for the same reasons and that investigating a speeding ticket has nothing to do with my choice to carry a handgun. He backed away with hand on his holstered weapon and I got both my suggestions...
Right or wrong I was not going to give on this situation at all whatsoever...This was a Senior WSP Trooper... |
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Yes, this is my second incident. The radar. Fly under it. (saw the thread title and author.... scanned for the obvious) This pattern is unsustainable. Fair warning. Are the radar detector thingies illegal in WA? I mean granted they are obsolete for the most part but are they illegal? |
| Ill bite on this one. unless headed to work (schools frown on weapons) i carry .1 i dont hand my cpl over unless requested and i never have been asked for it. 2 I carry, not my car, me I have kids in my car at times my childrens friends may not be properly trained in fire arm safety and kids explore and search and are curious, so i kep my piece on me . 3 My understanding is you are only permited too carry a firearm, not have it loaded in your car not on your person.( i could be way wrong on that just what i have been told about truck guns, car guns ext) Im not trying too say carrying a gun in your car jepordizes YOUR children or anything like that its just not my choice with my kids couse they get into everything lol. Phil is probly the one to chime in on this. |
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I dont volunteer information....Ive been pulled over many times and they never asked for my CPL.....(wasnt carrying at the time)...I dont think that information pops up when they run your plates.... This for me, and NO if they just run your plate it does not come up. they have to run a query on the individual. I see no reason to volunteer the info unless things start to go sideways... But then in my line of work, they know I carry anyway. 
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Ill bite on this one. unless headed to work (schools frown on weapons) i carry .1 i dont hand my cpl over unless requested and i never have been asked for it. 2 I carry, not my car, me I have kids in my car at times my childrens friends may not be properly trained in fire arm safety and kids explore and search and are curious, so i kep my piece on me . 3 My understanding is you are only permited too carry a firearm, not have it loaded in your car not on your person.( i could be way wrong on that just what i have been told about truck guns, car guns ext) Im not trying too say carrying a gun in your car jepordizes YOUR children or anything like that its just not my choice with my kids couse they get into everything lol. Phil is probly the one to chime in on this. Wrong. It is legal. |
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Yes, this is my second incident. The radar. Fly under it. (saw the thread title and author.... scanned for the obvious) This pattern is unsustainable. Fair warning. With all do respect, first time I was minding my own business, way off any main road in the woods and doing nothing illegal. So how do you suggest one fly under the radar and never have any trouble? It seems many here have been pulled over and all we can do is control our attitude and our actions… SOmetimes you can go by one book and one convential wisdom and still not have the best outcome. What do you suggest? |
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Anything you say will used against you.. they just don't tell you that at traffic stops. Volunteer nothing and you will give them less information to put in the affidavit and less information to create their own context to fit the citation.
This includes anything, and mentioning your weapon falls into that category, especially since you aren't required to. This is my personal experience.. anything that can make you look guilty including statements will be put into the affidavit in the context the officer decides to use. I just hope I remember my lesson for next time. |
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Here is a question, the WSP officer let me know that he was giving me a warning and that my warning was in the system and if I am ever pulled over again that the responding officer will know he gave me warning and that I will not get off again because I was in the system
Is this BS? |
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Yes, this is my second incident. The radar. Fly under it. (saw the thread title and author.... scanned for the obvious) This pattern is unsustainable. Fair warning. With all do respect, first time I was minding my own business, way off any main road in the woods and doing nothing illegal. So how do you suggest one fly under the radar and never have any trouble? It seems many here have been pulled over and all we can do is control our attitude and our actions… SOmetimes you can go by one book and one convential wisdom and still not have the best outcome. What do you suggest? I know you were asking ODT...................but I would suggest, again, not handing over a CPL (which they did not ask for) and not voluntarily disclosing the fact that you are armed, unless specifically asked. This has always worked for me. 
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Here is a question, the WSP officer let me know that he was giving me a warning and that my warning was in the system and if I am ever pulled over again that the responding officer will know he gave me warning and that I will not get off again because I was in the system Is this BS? Nope.. they do that. |
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... to each his own, within the interpretation of the statute. Me, personally? I hand it over, along with my DL, Insurance card, Reg, and mil ID, but I also adjust my demeanor to fit the officer's, meaning I give them every reason to think I am a "good guy". This. ^^^^^ That gives the LEO more information. Which usually ends up in a warning instead of a ticket. Following a strict set of "rules" will eventually get you in trouble. Flexibility will keep you out of trouble... unless you like your rules so much that you enjoy the trouble. Agreed- I'll adjust as the situation presents itself. Nothing in my response is a hard and fast "rule", every situation presents it's own unique opportunities to adapt. For someone to adapt a hard and fast rule, is to put blinders on. I've noticed a trend everytime this topic comes up, I pointed it out several times during the pro-LEO/anti-LEO back and forth the WAHTF has engaged in past discussions. For the benefit of the newer guys that haven't seen it, here it is: I've worked armed for many years, as a PI, bounty Hunter/Bail Enforcement and Security Ninja, I've also held a Law Enforcement Commission, here in WA, but my commentary is outside of that specific realm, this is in direct correlation to being a private armed citizen as well as being a privately employed in an armed field . Working the Both sides of the state, I've been to more than a few PD's and county Jails, booking guys in, filing reports, picking up reports, ect. Some jails you can carry into the sally port, and lock up your firearms, same as LEO's, other, just avoid it and leave the piece with the partner. Some palces you can open carry while working, others are strictly concealed, tactical and technical provisions apply. It all comes down to using good Discretion. It just seems that you guys West of the Cascades tend to have more trouble with LEO than over here past the Eastern slope, I don't know what the cause is, maybe that most cherry Staters work the I-5 corridor as part of training, or the sheer volume of violent calls due to the demographics across the board, or that many Eastside cops grew up in communities that are generally rural, areas that have a more positive gun culture? Maybe it has to do with all of these things. It's been my experiance that you tend to get a lot more understanding from the Man in Blue here Central and Eastern WA, rather than you would there Western WA. The "Metro" areas do not lend themself to the gun culture all (I HOPE  ) us on the board embrace. It's a sport that, for a great many, revolves around open spaces, i.e., the sporting hunter. By and large, what's the ratio of carry permits to citizens in the Seattle City limits for instance? 1 in 20? I don't know the answer, but can only theorize that given that ratio, chances are that more often than not, when LEO's come into contact with a an individual in possesion of a firearm (and not discounting illegal criminal carry, in fact emphasizing it) it's either in an illeagal or less-than positive light.
Please, before anyone deciedes to flame away, think about that for a second, and simply ask direct questions...I may or may not have communicated my thoughts on this properly, but think I have the basic idea presented. I can't account for areas like Centrailia, that are deceidedly more rural than Tacoma, but it's been a trend in just about every one of these threads. Edited for clarity.
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Both times I've been pulled over I was carrying. It never came up either time and the second time I had a fun chat with the WSP trooper (I say that seriously, he was a nice guy and it was a pleasant conversation).
Just keep your goddamn mouth shut. Unless they specifically ask, it's not germane to the conversation. |
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... to each his own, within the interpretation of the statute. Me, personally? I hand it over, along with my DL, Insurance card, Reg, and mil ID, but I also adjust my demeanor to fit the officer's, meaning I give them every reason to think I am a "good guy". This. ^^^^^ That gives the LEO more information. Which usually ends up in a warning instead of a ticket. Following a strict set of "rules" will eventually get you in trouble. Flexibility will keep you out of trouble... unless you like your rules so much that you enjoy the trouble. Agreed- I'll adjust as the situation presents itself. Nothing in my response is a hard and fast "rule", every situation presents it's own unique opportunities to adapt. For someone to adapt a hard and fast rule, is to put blinders on. I've noticed a trend everytime this topic comes up, I pointed it out several times during the pro-LEO/anti-LEO back and forth the WAHTF has engaged in past discussions. For the benefit of the newer guys that haven't seen it, here it is: I've worked armed for many years, as a PI, bounty Hunter/Bail Enforcement and Security Ninja, I've also held a Law Enforcement Commission, here in WA, but my commentary is outside of that specific realm, this is in direct correlation to being a private armed citizen as well as being a privately employed in an armed field . Working the Both sides of the state, I've been to more than a few PD's and county Jails, booking guys in, filing reports, picking up reports, ect. Some jails you can carry into the sally port, and lock up your firearms, same as LEO's, other, just avoid it and leave the piece with the partner. Some palces you can open carry while working, others are strictly concealed, tactical and technical provisions apply. It all comes down to using good Discretion. It just seems that you guys West of the Cascades tend to have more trouble with LEO than over here past the Eastern slope, I don't know what the cause is, maybe that most cherry Staters work the I-5 corridor as part of training, or the sheer volume of violent calls due to the demographics across the board, or that many Eastside cops grew up in communities that are generally rural, areas that have a more positive gun culture? Maybe it has to do with all of these things. It's been my experiance that you tend to get a lot more understanding from the Man in Blue here Central and Eastern WA, rather than you would there Western WA. The "Metro" areas do not lend themself to the gun culture all (I HOPE ) us on the board embrace. It's a sport that, for a great many, revolves around open spaces, i.e., the sporting hunter. By and large, what's the ratio of carry permits to citizens in the Seattle City limits for instance? 1 in 20? I don't know the answer, but can only theorize that given that ratio, chances are that more often than not, when LEO's come into contact with a an individual in possesion of a firearm (and not discounting illegal criminal carry, in fact emphasizing it) it's either in an illeagal or less-than positive light.
Please, before anyone deciedes to flame away, think about that for a second, and simply ask direct questions...I may or may not have communicated my thoughts on this properly, but think I have the basic idea presented. I can't account for areas like Centrailia, that are deceidedly more rural than Tacoma, but it's been a trend in just about every one of these threads. Edited for clarity. Around here(SW Washington) the various agencies tend to attract a lot of Californian laterals... not that Californians are all bad, but they are a lot more "urban" than we are and some bring that attitude with them. |
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SOmetimes you can go by one book and one convential wisdom and still not have the best outcome. What do you suggest? Use the public transportation system..
I use public transportation and don't really get that many looks... except w. my rifle case I just look like a wondering guitarist... |
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Here is a question, the WSP officer let me know that he was giving me a warning and that my warning was in the system and if I am ever pulled over again that the responding officer will know he gave me warning and that I will not get off again because I was in the system Is this BS? Nope.. they do that. So like an unofficial official record? |
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Here is a question, the WSP officer let me know that he was giving me a warning and that my warning was in the system and if I am ever pulled over again that the responding officer will know he gave me warning and that I will not get off again because I was in the system Is this BS? Nope.. they do that. So like an unofficial official record? Kinda depends on what record keeping system they have... Where I work, I can look up your contacts for only 90 days, unless they put it into the long term... Most dont. Some places... You are in for as long as they want. |
I have gotten a lot of good answers and information. Thanks all. 
My biggest problem is I give too much information. Both here on arfcom, to the officer today, and probably in life in general. I gave context, my own 2 cents, and the run down of the stop. But I really didn’t need to add all the extra details, now do I? |