Posted: 2/21/2013 5:06:26 PM EDT
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Many of us here in the States take a certain amount of pride in our U.K. roots. In my experience this pride is often met by derision from U.K. Citizens.
To a certain extent I can understand this, i.e. the guy claiming to be descended from "Earl so and so" like that makes him a special snowflake or whatever. I realize that someone claiming to be from a certain heritage be it Scot, Irish, Welsh, etc... can probably seem to you much the same as somebody claiming to be from a certain side of my hometown seems to me. My question to you is; Do you realize how increasingly small of a percentage of Americans with U.K. roots actually are? It sets us apart in a country that is quickly becoming the "polyglot boardinghouse" Teddy Roosevelt warned us about. While our ethnic pride may seem like a soccer hooligan's antics to you, it is really a grasping of straws to set ourselves apart within the tidal wave of demographic change that we are currently swimming in. We are bitter-clingers and we simply wish that you would honour our views and traditions as we wish to honour yours. Best, B.D. |
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Quoted:
Many of us here in the States take a certain amount of pride in our U.K. roots. In my experience this pride is often met by derision from U.K. Citizens. To a certain extent I can understand this, i.e. the guy claiming to be descended from "Earl so and so" like that makes him a special snowflake or whatever. I realize that someone claiming to be from a certain heritage be it Scot, Irish, Welsh, etc... can probably seem to you much the same as somebody claiming to be from a certain side of my hometown seems to me. My question to you is; Do you realize how increasingly small of a percentage of Americans with U.K. roots actually are? It sets us apart in a country that is quickly becoming the "polyglot boardinghouse" Teddy Roosevelt warned us about. While our ethnic pride may seem like a soccer hooligan's antics to you, it is really a grasping of straws to set ourselves apart within the tidal wave of demographic change that we are currently swimming in. We are bitter-clingers and we simply wish that you would honour our views and traditions as we wish to honour yours. Best, B.D. I think what I find odd is those Americans who describe themselves as say Irish because one ancestor or family emigrated to to the US back in the 1850's whilst ignoring subsequent marriages to non Irish partners. On my direct male line I have an Irish forefather who came to England around 1800 but I wouldn't claim to be Irish because all his male descendants on my line married English women. On my female line they are Welsh but again I don't say I'm Welsh. But do understand that the WASPS are getting to be a minority. |
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Agreed, and I do find it odd myself if someone goes on "ancestry.com" or some such and realizes they have an Irish ancestor and that they therefore believe they are "Irish". I guess my point is that certain ethinic
enclaves formed within the U.S. with a distinct ethnic identity and tradition. I originally did not want to advertise my own roots, but my ancestors came to the U.S. as Presbyterian clergy in the late 1700's and lo and behold, we still have Presbyterian clergy in the family. Despite intermarriages etc..., we still largely identify as Lowland Presbyterian Scots. We hold our traditions very dear and are somewhat perturbed when our traditions are derided. 
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Nothing wrong with pride in ones roots.
As to what defines nationality or heritage............. I was born in the UK of Irish parents. Lived here until 2 years old. Then moved to Ireland and lived there until 16 years old. I have lived in UK ever since ( apart from an extended working holiday in San Francisco when 20yo  )
Although my accent is fading and although I have now lived in UK longer than I ever lived in Ireland, I still regard myself as Irish. Or maybe Anglo-Irish ? My cousins who were born here of Irish parents but raised here probably regard themselves as British - I think its where one spends their formative years that defines them. If a few generations have passed, in my opinion the individual could claim to have Irish HERITAGE but claiming to be Irish would be stretching it. |
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The UK has a higher percentage of foreign-born people than the US does, 11.8% v. 11.4%. Maybe, but when the us population is 314 million compared to the uk's 62 million people That equates to us=35.8 million, uk= 7.3 million So percentage wise it means fuck all |
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I find it interesting that nobody wears a GB flag on their lapel over here.
Americans who wear a suit will put a small American flag pin on their lapel. No, not everybody but enough that it isn't an uncommon sight. I bought a small crossed flags pin for when I wear my suits over here (American/British) and I'm the only one. Curious |
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I've got various sizes of Union Flag lapel pins and on the rare occasion I wear a suit (as opposed to shirt and tie) and wear one. However, as you say, I've never seen anyone else wear one. Most lapel badges are worn to show support for charities. The Royal British Legion do Poppy pins (for Remembrance Sunday) that are really nice:
http://www.poppyshop.org.uk/poppy-lapel-pin.html I agree thta it is strange that it hasn't caught on - as I think that hit looks really smart on a suit. |
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I've got various sizes of Union Flag lapel pins and on the rare occasion I wear a suit (as opposed to shirt and tie) and wear one. However, as you say, I've never seen anyone else wear one. Most lapel badges are worn to show support for charities. The Royal British Legion do Poppy pins (for Remembrance Sunday) that are really nice: http://www.poppyshop.org.uk/poppy-lapel-pin.html I agree thta it is strange that it hasn't caught on - as I think that hit looks really smart on a suit. My co-worker whose an Englishman says that the English have been conditioned not to show their patriotism in difference to the UK countries whose ass you kicked to include them in the Kingdom. |
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Quoted: ... we simply wish that you would honour our views and traditions as we wish to honour yours. I think you miss the point. There is nothing wrong with knowing, acknowledging and even seeking to strengthen your ties with your family roots. The people we take the piss out of tend to be the people who decide a great-great-great-great-grandfather from Ireland means that they have to be more Irish than all the Irishmen in the world combined. They dress only in green, drink only Guiness, own every Dubliners CD and are learning to play the Uillean pipes when they aren't busy eating raw potatoes. Or the poster who's great-great-grandfather once saw a picture of Scotland on a tin of biscuits, so that poster now has to spend every waking moment dressed head to toe in some "ancient Ye Olde Scottish Tartan" that was actually invented in 1996 to sell to gullible tourists, speak "Scottish" at random times and only eat Haggis... despite never leaving the borders of their own State in their lifetime. Enjoy who you are and where your family comes from. Rejoice in it, steep yourself in its culture if you wish - there is much fascinating history and amazing culture to be found in all countries of the world, without question. The people we take the piss out of are the ones who latch onto these highly romanticized, mostly modern (and mostly fictional) "interpretations" of the culture that America seems to have invented and then adopt them as gospel truth. Even worse, they then insist on trying to edumacate the locals, correct them and teach them about their own culture despite never having left their own damn basements in their life  Let's talk about a little place I know. Americans see it as Meathas Troim, noble home of bards and warriors gallanty striving to live a simple life of beauty and bravery against the harsh English oppressors. We see it as Edgeworthstown, a rough-as-fuck backwater with little-to-no redeeming features (with all the best will in the world to my childhood) that most of our family was happy to move away from when the opportunity arose. The man who has never held a passport but decides to tell me that Mostrim is a wonderful, beautiful, spiritual and enchantingly magical place... is an feckless arsehole and will be jeered at without hesitation  So, in summary: don't act like a puppy that's just discovered it can lick it's own arsehole and needs to show the world that it can lick arsehole better than any other puppy in the world, and we won't take the piss. |
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Quoted: There was a dude in GD who claimed to be more Swedish than me, despite never having been here and not speaking a word of Swedish. He was convinced that I was actually an immigrant since I didn't live up to his expectations of what a Swede should be.  That's just it. The problems is the handful of merkins who can't just be "Americans with Swedish ancestors" - oh no, they have to 100% American and 350% SUPER SWEDISH, bitch! Because actually being Swedish and living in Sweden just isn't good enough to overpower their inherent... err... swedinity? Swedinishiness? Swedinosity? Oh feck it, you know what I mean... |
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There was a dude in GD who claimed to be more Swedish than me, despite never having been here and not speaking a word of Swedish. He was convinced that I was actually an immigrant since I didn't live up to his expectations of what a Swede should be. That's just it. The problems is the handful of merkins who can't just be "Americans with Swedish ancestors" - oh no, they have to 100% American and 350% SUPER SWEDISH, bitch! Because actually being Swedish and living in Sweden just isn't good enough to overpower their inherent... err... swedinity? Swedinishiness? Swedinosity? Oh feck it, you know what I mean... The poor guy was really pissed that I didn't accept his Swedishness.
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I think that it's entertaining when I meet anyone from anywhere who thinks that because he or she has ancestors from anywhere is a part of that country.
Me, I was born in Preston Lancs, joined the army at 16, left at 26 and stayed in Bavaria. FFS these days I'm more of a token kraut than a Brit, people ask me about life in the UK and I say I haven't lived there for 30 years, so go google what it is your looking for, because I haven't a clue. To a point I consider it to be pretentious, and I don't do that, on the other hand I don't run round in Lederhosen and traditional dress (unless it's a fancy dress) because it's not me, or how I see myself. I am "ME" no need to be anyone else from anywhere else. I want to meet "YOU", not your bloody ancestors, they are dead and gone, and they left the places they came from for a reason, probably so that you could be who you are today. Sorry if my views have upset anyone's sensibilities, get over it, we are who we are. Tony |
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I think that it's entertaining when I meet anyone from anywhere who thinks that because he or she has ancestors from anywhere is a part of that country. Me, I was born in Preston Lancs, joined the army at 16, left at 26 and stayed in Bavaria. FFS these days I'm more of a token kraut than a Brit, people ask me about life in the UK and I say I haven't lived there for 30 years, so go google what it is your looking for, because I haven't a clue. To a point I consider it to be pretentious, and I don't do that, on the other hand I don't run round in Lederhosen and traditional dress (unless it's a fancy dress) because it's not me, or how I see myself. I am "ME" no need to be anyone else from anywhere else. I want to meet "YOU", not your bloody ancestors, they are dead and gone, and they left the places they came from for a reason, probably so that you could be who you are today. Sorry if my views have upset anyone's sensibilities, get over it, we are who we are. Tony I can understand that. I really don't get the whole "I'm such-and-such that goes on in my country. To me it is a source of pride that I have ancestors from so many different places. That speaks to real actions and decisions taken by recent family. I remember talking to a British girl who worked about the UN. We talked about nationality and at some point it got to heritage. I made the point that all that I have of that is whatever American is, because I have at least 9 different nationalities coinciding within the last 150 years or so. I cant be proud of how Polish or British or Irish or German or Czech or whatever I am. I'm all of those, so all I've got is the sum of those parts resulting in me. I'm proud to be American because I choose to remain and be so. That seems to me to be the only valid reason for national pride. |