Posted: 10/2/2009 6:47:05 PM EDT
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Hoping for someone who's got enough legal chops to address this question, but I'll also settle for "talked to a LEO buddy" anecdotes. I'm moving to Rochester, NY and I'd naturally like to bring my AR with me. It's already in compliance with NYS law (the stickied post in this forum helping me to figure that out) but Rochester's laws are more restrictive and confusing.
I have read and re-read the portion of Rochester's city code regarding "assault weapons" and a couple things jump out as problematic: Firstly, they define assault weapon similarly to how the NYS ban language is structured, except they also include "A barrel jacket surrounding all or a portion of the barrel to dissipate heat therefrom" as an "evil feature." What the hell does this mean precisely? I could see them arguing that a metal free-float tube meets this criteria. Does anyone know if that is the case? Secondly, the language in the portion on magazines is even more unclear. What is definitely true is that you can't have larger than 5-round cap magazines, period. Okay, slightly annoying but I can deal. However, the way it's written, it is unclear whether possessing multiple 5-round mags will get you in trouble since there is a clause regarding the "combined" capacity of magazine(s) and chamber (no greater than 6). Can anyone clarify this? Obviously the safe thing is just to only have one mag. Thanks for any help. The relevant portion of the city code can be found here in Sub-section 47-5. |
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Sure. Click here, enter "47-5" into the second text box on the left, and click "Go To". This will take you to the section of the city code referring to firearms. Scroll down to the entry for "Assault Weapon", specifically part 2-d is what I'm talking about. I'll also quote it here:
ASSAULT WEAPON (1) Any center-fire rifle or shotgun which employs the force of the expanding gases from a discharging cartridge to chamber a fresh round after each single pull of the trigger, and which is loaded or capable of being loaded with a combination of more than six cartridges in the ammunition feeding device and chamber combined. For the purposes of this section, a weapon is capable of being loaded if it is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses: (a) In the case of a rifle, a fixed or detachable ammunition feeding device which is attached to or utilized with or capable of being attached to or utilized with such rifle and which has a capacity of more than five cartridges; or (b) In the case of a shotgun, an ammunition feeding device which is attached to or utilized with or capable of being attached to or utilized with such shotgun and which has a capacity of more than five cartridges. (2) A center-fire rifle or shotgun which employs the force of expanding gases from a discharging cartridge to chamber a fresh round after each single pull of the trigger, and which has: (a) A flash suppressor attached to the weapon reducing muzzle flash; (b) A grenade launcher; (c) A sighting device making a target visible at night; (d) A barrel jacket surrounding all or a portion of the barrel to dissipate heat therefrom; or (e) A multi-burst trigger activator. (3) Any stockless pistol grip shotgun. (4) The following weapons manufactured prior to the effective date of this section. [NOTE: This section was found unconstitutional by the Honorable Charles J. Siragusa, Supreme Court Justice, Monroe County, in Citizens for a Safer Community v. City of Rochester, Index No. 93-08421.] (5) For purposes of this section, the term "assault weapon" shall not include any of the following: (a) Any weapon which has been modified to render it permanently inoperable or permanently make it a device no longer defined as an "assault weapon"; (b) Weapons that do not use cartridges or shells; (c) Manually operated bolt-action weapons, lever-action weapons, slide-action weapons or single-shot weapons; (d) Multiple-barrel weapons, revolving-cylinder weapons except shotguns, weapons that use exclusively a rotary Mannlicher-style magazine; or (e) Any antique firearm as defined in § 265.00 of the New York State Penal Law or any curio or relic as defined under United States law which is possessed by a licensed collector in accordance with United States Law. As an aside, I like that the code specifically mentions rotary mags as an exception so whoever wrote this could keep their 10/22. |
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Quoted:
Sure. Click here, enter "47-5" into the second text box on the left, and click "Go To". This will take you to the section of the city code referring to firearms. Scroll down to the entry for "Assault Weapon", specifically part 2-d is what I'm talking about. I'll also quote it here: ASSAULT WEAPON (1) Any center-fire rifle or shotgun which employs the force of the expanding gases from a discharging cartridge to chamber a fresh round after each single pull of the trigger, and which is loaded or capable of being loaded with a combination of more than six cartridges in the ammunition feeding device and chamber combined. For the purposes of this section, a weapon is capable of being loaded if it is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses: (a) In the case of a rifle, a fixed or detachable ammunition feeding device which is attached to or utilized with or capable of being attached to or utilized with such rifle and which has a capacity of more than five cartridges; or (b) In the case of a shotgun, an ammunition feeding device which is attached to or utilized with or capable of being attached to or utilized with such shotgun and which has a capacity of more than five cartridges. (2) A center-fire rifle or shotgun which employs the force of expanding gases from a discharging cartridge to chamber a fresh round after each single pull of the trigger, and which has: (a) A flash suppressor attached to the weapon reducing muzzle flash; (b) A grenade launcher; (c) A sighting device making a target visible at night; (d) A barrel jacket surrounding all or a portion of the barrel to dissipate heat therefrom; or (e) A multi-burst trigger activator. (3) Any stockless pistol grip shotgun. (4) The following weapons manufactured prior to the effective date of this section. [NOTE: This section was found unconstitutional by the Honorable Charles J. Siragusa, Supreme Court Justice, Monroe County, in Citizens for a Safer Community v. City of Rochester, Index No. 93-08421.] (5) For purposes of this section, the term "assault weapon" shall not include any of the following: (a) Any weapon which has been modified to render it permanently inoperable or permanently make it a device no longer defined as an "assault weapon"; (b) Weapons that do not use cartridges or shells; (c) Manually operated bolt-action weapons, lever-action weapons, slide-action weapons or single-shot weapons; (d) Multiple-barrel weapons, revolving-cylinder weapons except shotguns, weapons that use exclusively a rotary Mannlicher-style magazine; or (e) Any antique firearm as defined in § 265.00 of the New York State Penal Law or any curio or relic as defined under United States law which is possessed by a licensed collector in accordance with United States Law. As an aside, I like that the code specifically mentions rotary mags as an exception so whoever wrote this could keep their 10/22. What I believe is that the highlighted part does not refer to a rifle, only a shotgun and what they are referring to is the "shoulder thing that goes up", AKA a barrel shroud. Every semi automatic rifle I know of has some type of handguard that surrounds the barrel. Then again you have to be a lawyer to understand and decipher these laws and I am not, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. |
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yeah that line had me too...i live outside city limits though.
To me it sounded like handguards with the heat shields "could" be in this category...but then again the term "heat shield" would imply only that it protects the user from heat... I'd say it would depend on the officer/judge...if it ever came to that. I'd also be careful of what area you are in as there is some very strong hippy Lib areas that may rat if its seen. Welcome to the ROC! |
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Looks like the max penalty they can dish out is... Notwithstanding the penalties contained in § 47-8, a violation of any provision of this section shall be punishable by a fine not to exceed $1,000 or by imprisonment not to exceed 180 days, or by both such fine and imprisonment. I'm pretty sure the max penalty for trespassing is harsher, and no one ever gets the max penalty unless you're a repeat offender. Honestly, I'd just bring the guns and keep them on the down low. |
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AFAIK, The 5 round mag rule only defines it as a "Hunting" firearm...just hide those 30's or keep them outside the city limit b/c if they have reason to search and find even one; this will negate all the 5 round mags you may have ;)
I would call the RPD and ask, just for clarification. It can't hurt to get info from the horses mouth. |
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If at all possible, do not move to anywhere within the Rochester city limits. Even better, don't move to anywhere within Monroe County altogether.
I have no idea how section 1 of that law actually is interpreted, but it could be interpreted to mean that any AR that can accept USGI magazines is illegal. This is a city that has a notice on its website saying that pistol permit applications will take 9-12 months to process, despite knowing that state law requires that they be processed within 6 months. |
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Quoted:
If at all possible, do not move to anywhere within the Rochester city limits. Even better, don't move to anywhere within Monroe County altogether. I have no idea how section 1 of that law actually is interpreted, but it could be interpreted to mean that any AR that can accept USGI magazines is illegal. This is a city that has a notice on its website saying that pistol permit applications will take 9-12 months to process, despite knowing that state law requires that they be processed within 6 months. Living within the City limits I won't argue with you there. And 9-12 months is too long but I would imagine Monroe county has not been the only one in NY state that has taken longer than 6 months to process a application in the past year or two, But as far as pistol permits go Monroe County is one of the few counties I would want to put in a application in NY. Virtually all permits hear are unrestricted. I would rather wait a extra month or two here than get a restricted one faster down in other parts of the state.. |
No mags over 5 rounds? |
I don't believe there is a pistol mag limit in the city of Rochester, except for the 10 round state law...And I am sure pre-bans are fine as well...That doesn't mean some ignorant RPD officer wouldn't give you hell for them.
One other stupid Rochester/Monroe County law is that according to county law, you are not allowed to carry your handgun in any county parks. Too bad for Monroe County my NYS permit was issued "notwithstanding" (despite) any local laws. |
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Any similar law for pistols?
Pistols are only limited to I think either 13 or 17 rounds –– so basically there you're just running up against the NYS limit. No rifles capable of accepting mags over 5 rounds.
That isn't how I read it. Look at the section I posted above –– they specifically say that "capability" to be loaded is defined with respect to whether you possess higher cap mags. So my reading of this is that you can have an AR as long as you don't have any mags greater than 5 round capacity. For the type of shooting I want to do, this isn't a huge deal. |