Posted: 2/19/2005 12:20:19 PM EDT
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My memory's not too good but I do remember an article in GunMart where someone was importing FN Fal SLR copies. No idea if it they were made under license or not but they might have been from South Africa. Now I'm buggered if I can find the copy it was in. I was wondering if anyone here has had anything to do with these rifles?. any Feedback? I recal it being available 5.56 and either 7.62 or there was a 22lr SA version I'd be intersted to know if they are any good. I recal the cost around £1000 (ouch) with a para version utilising a folding stock...it looked pretty. Taffy |
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Taffster, it was Sabre defence. The guns used Imbel rceivers from Brazil (though the entire gun might have come from Brazil - I can't remember) They did the 7.62 in SLR, 16", and 12"here IMNSHO, as a UK shoooter you are far better seved with an AR. Save your money and spend it on some top-notch optics. And a good sling. SteveA |
Andy what about the 5.56...is he stuck with many of those? and yea the price is pretty steep. Taffy |
Didn't ask him… I don't do handraulic rifles.  ANdy |
handraulic?....ya gotta enlighten me there mate Thick Taffy |
Engineering term… 'Hand' & 'Hydraulic'…When an automated machine breaks down, you have to resort operating it manually in 'handraulic mode'… Manually loading a 'Self Loading Rifle' is a classic example of this ANdy |
Andy, What have you got against a 'straight-pull' rifle? It is just another bolt-action, after all, and a darn sight easier and faster than a conventiional bolt gun. Do you sneer at Blasers or Cam rifles (the Cam only require a 22' bolt throw rather than the usual 45' of the average bolt gun, so is half way there)? Have you read the title of this forum? There is a place for the bolt-action rifle, and there is a place for the straight-pull, just don't keep putting them down. I own several examples of both types (as well as semis, lever-action, martinis and a muzzle loader) and I know my ARs can out shoot my bolt guns on most courses of fire. When time is tight I'll always pick up an AR over a bolt gun, even a non-semi AR. So, leave the straight-pull alone, you can only put them down when you've beaten one in a shoot-off with your bolt-gun. You can pick the course of fire. Matt waiting to book the range for the shoot-off. PS I've heard the straight-pull Fals have very stiff extraction, not having played with one I wouldn't like to say whether this could be improved. But as not too many are seen on the range at competitions I can only guess that they are some if not all of the following; a) not very easy to use in a straight pull configuration; b) too heavy; c) offer no advantages over a conventional 7.62 d) too expensive. |
I was not 'having a go at striaght pull rifles… Taff asked if I had asked Guy about the .223 FAL's and I said I had not asked guy as I had no interest in them. NOW… as to the general reason why I don't have any time for the 'straight-pull' conversions. You know and I knoiw they are just a 'work around' after that retarded ban back in 1989… IIRC they rounded up less than 4,000 in total, of a weapon that was used in the fastest growing discipline of it's time. Now, I used to shoot the old 'Mechanical Musket' with borrowed rifles on MoD ranges and I had to drop out. I still remember all too well the way all the rest of the rifle shooters put the boot in against the SLR users. So, no, I'm not really amenable to using a 'work around', I want the real thing back. The only reasoin they were banned was because they were offered up as a 'sacrificial goat' by the authorities, including the clowns at Bisley, to protect their beloved rifles., (but that is all to often the case, the same when the pistols went down the pan, thanks for nothing NRA!) And now history is going to repeat itself with the semi .22's looking to be next in due course in order to protect the ISU .22 brigade. SO, it's nothing 'personal' against the straight pull AR's, I know they are very fine weapons, but it's just the same reason as I won't play with muzzle loading pistols either. Personally, I wish the shooters would put as much effort into trying to overturn the bans as finding ways to carry on. As part of my job I deal with quite highly placed Civil Servants and I have had a number of conversations with them about Firearms Laws. They are contantly amused by the belief amongst shooters than 'nothing can be done'. Wrong, Governments are simple things to understand, they want viotes, and whoever or whatever is going to offer up the most votes gets their attention. Why were pistols banned after Dunblane even though Lord Cullen said they should not be? Easy! The Snowdrop Campaign handed in a 1,000,000 signature petition, shooters only managed a pathetic 50,000 odd, so they went will the Snowdrop demands Now, it is estimated that something like 1,600,000 people either shoot or are connected with shooting in this country, NO Politician could ignore that number of votes if he thought they could be bothered to get off their arses! Shooters in Ireland have got their pistols back after a steady and concerted campaign by all the shooting organisations. And in France, when the Government suggested banning semi automatic pistols after a shooting, the President scotched the idea after the Chairman of French Shooting Organisation rang him up and reminded him that his very large membership would vote against him in the next election. To this day, I cannot understand why the shooting organisations will not keep rubbing the Governments nose in two facts they cannot explain away. (1) All handguns are banned on the mainland, yet guncrime with handguns has rocketed! (2) If handguns are so 'dangerous' how come, when have they been allowed in the Offshore parts, there has not been any trouble with them. Likewise, Shooters need to start banding together and go on the offensive. Argueing that they are sporting guns will never work… sporting guns are a hobby and hobbys can be cancelled. The American NRA has pointed out time and time again that the best method is to go back to the 1920 Firearms act and start a challenge from there. The Government accepted in 1920 that the public had a right to bear arms under the Bill of Rights, it also accepted the right of self defence. NOW… they have never actually written that out as such, just kept rewording follow on legislation or guidance to annull all the various provisions. They have never bothered to try this stunt in Northern Ireland were the right to bears arms for self defence is still accepted, reason why? Easy! A very vociferous response to any attempts to tinker with their firearms laws! One of the arguments successfully put forward by the Irish shooters was that although handguns were banned to stop them getting into the hands of criminals and terrorists, it made absolutely no difference to the bad guys, and the argument was that in this case the ban had no basis as it did not do what it set out to achieve! Fair point! I would have thought a similar argument could be put forward here if we could get enough support. However, I think we are all wasting our time here in Britain, from what I see at my club, most people do not enjoy shooting and will do nothing to support the sport. If all guns were banned they would take up knitting or something similar. We have 180 members, I printed 100 copies of the HO consultation document and brought them to the Club, 8 copies were taken, and we reckon only 5 people responded to the HO!… says it all. We are locked in a 'feud' at the moment at the club, there is a budget of £30K to refurb the indoor ranges. Some of us want turning targets and a 25m indoor range for Galley and LSR, but most people are argueing, (sucessfully…  ), that the range should be rebulit to accommodate Air Pistol and 20yd ISU Rifle as they are the only disciplines they see any future in… talk about defeatist!ANdy |
I think i've become a defeatist,  I know that if they dont like it they will come and take it off us, i also think we'll never get SLR's or pistols back. no matter how many turn up in the possesion of drug dealers, ( 3 in two years here, 1L1A1, and 1 AK the other i dont know) Because the 88/97 acts were for public safety, we will never get them back because there is always a chance.... whatever happened to the ECHR case?? died a death i presume, I may be a defeatist, but i did respond to the consultation, and told others to do so also, not that any of them did, the figure i was told was 6000 responses, probably 200 shooters and the rest GCN Minions, either way 6000 responses was terrible!! For the benefit of the tape, Morning and welcome to the forum Gill James, |
Nope… only 4000ish responses! And yes, it was truly terrible! especially when you consider there are 118,612 firearm certificates and 561,762 shotgun certificates on issue. Indeed the 88/97 Acts were allegedly for 'Public Safety' … if we had a decent umbrella organisation that had a pair they would ask foir a Judicial Review on the grounds that those two acts clearly did not achieve their stated aim…As I said before, why is public safety not jeopardised by the ready availablity of handguns in Northern Ireland (inc permits for Self Defence), the Channel Islands and Isle of Man. Incidentally, you can also still possess handguns in our assorted remaining Colonies! However, all the organisations and gun owners seem to have surrendered just as we start getting the press on our side!… www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/01/23/do2302.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2005/01/23/ixopinion.html ANdy |
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Yeah the same press that called all pistol shooters perverts!! I think going back to the 1920 act and challenging that is a good idea, or we could all email Pres bush and ask for help overthrowing a dictator? Whatever happens shooters will never band together, i think there is too much water under the bridge, and when were down to .22 single shot martini's there will still be some people causing trouble.... " why is your martini black?? are those combat boots??" etc etc etc, I will stick up for shooting sports when the bans come next time around, except a certain wildfowler, him i will laugh at!!!] James |
ANdy |
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Andy not all of us have as much knowledge as you. Perhaps you could find a way for us to be heard. Premote actively protecting what we have as well as seeking to reintroduce what we have lost. Even if it's a stock letter we email to each other and sign. where's our first port of call?...local MP? Come on Andy lead us in the good fight We're all members of clubs and know other clubs too so between us we can reach a reasonable audience. I feel another thread coming on... I also took 25 copies of the Consultation document to my club but thankfully there were all taken. Even the local gunshop had not seen it till i furnished him with a few copies. Taffy |
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Taff, I've spent five years banging my head against a wall of apathy from shooters… but I'm getting tired being told to shut up by the sheepish majority. I always write to ANY MP who makes even the faintest noise in support of shooting… 99.999% of shooters don't bother. I wonder why MP's won't take us seriously? The Conservatives have hinted they could be amenable to a review of the Handgun Ban to allow the resumption of ISU Pistol Shooting, what response did that get? 'Attack Mode' on them for banning the large calibre guns! They hint at a small concession and the shooters say 'F*ck you!' ANdy |