Posted: 1/13/2003 4:17:36 PM EDT
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Hi guys - I'm writing from the occupied territories of the left coast. The wife and I are seeking a better future of our family, and at the rate at which CA is heading towards self-destruction, we have to make a move. I refuse to keep paying for this state's continued idiocy. We are looking for a simple suburb/country setting, with close proximity (within 1hr is fine) of a technology center because that is my current profession and will make the transition that much easier. Several questions come to mind as we picked out states; 1) Is the state car-friendly? I do some hot-rod work and am pretty active here in car-land. Is there a burgeoning car-culture there too? 2) Where is the state legislature proceeding towards, with respect to our constitutional rights? 3) What is the cost of living if you're close to one of those technology centers? 4) What questions am I not asking and SHOULD be asking? Thanks for your input, and no, I promise we won't try to make VA "more like CA" if we moved there 
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VA still has a Real Property tax...If you buy a car here it's no issue. If you bought a car (boat, plane,etc) and paid sales tax at the time of purchase you get stung... Fairfax County has a 3 day wait on pistols too... But as a former NY'er it's Nirvana-except for the food. |
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Traffic in NoVa sucks ****. If you get a job in the Sterling/Manassas/Tysons area, you can probably commute from as far away as Front Royal. About 50-70 miles west. 1. Dunno. State inspections are yearly and they take awhile. Used to take minutes and now take 30 mins if your lucky. Long lines in the NoVa area. Also, emissions every 2 years. 2. Dunno 3. Expensive. A new house my parents bought back in 1965 (ya a long time ago) for $25 grand just sold for $345k  and it is super small. Dinky actually.4. Dunno. We are trying to get a monthly shoot together. But if we can't get it in the Front Royal area, then we usually travel to below Staunton. Machine Guns, subguns, etc. Only 175 yards though. Property tax sucks **** too. Luckly they have almost abolished the car pp tax. OH, and one handgun a month in VA I believe. (SUCKS) I can't afford one a month.  |
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How many AR's can I buy in one month? Does VA allow Class-III? Plus, VA is a shall-issue CCW right? As far as property prices are concerned, I think if I sold my house - even in this currently depressed economy - I can still make out decent anywhere else in the country. That is one of the blessings of cashing out of CA! |
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You can buy as many long guns as you wish/afford, and one handgun every 30 calender days, but, you can get a special dispensation from the Sate Police to buy more than one if you are going to an estate sale or auction or something like that, and if you trade one handgun in on another, it doesn't count in the 30 day limit. VA is a shall issue state. VA allows Class 3, but it is up to the individual CLEO to sign off on it, so it varies from county to county. |
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1) Can't help you much there, but I know several people into their cars, so I'd say you'd have plenty of company. Note that the emissions inspection is not a statewide thing. It was never required in the southwest portions of the state. Must be a city thing. 2) I'd say it's a status quo for the moment. There are good things happening (unlawful CCW prohibitions being removed from parks, etc...), but the continual cry for stricter feel-good-do-nothing legislation. Shall issue CCW (although there have been reports of Fairfax Co making people wait longer than the State-limited 45 days, unpunished), and no problems with Class III from what I've seen. 3) NoVA is an expensive area. A small single-bedroom apartment within reasonable (<= 1 hour) commuting distance will start at $1000. Depends on what you do, though. Housing in the Ashburn area is a bit cheaper, yet very close to the Dulles corridor. 4) Know what a moon pie is? Good luck! |
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Slipjoint, Come to either central (Richmond) or south-west (Roanoke, where I hail from) Virginia. Lots of hotrodders here, even with the Personal Property tax. Lots of gunowners. Cost of living is very reasonable, especially when compared to the left Coast. Class III is doable (I have a couple if that says anything). We've got VaTech here (my alma mater). Just drop me a line if you have any questions. Oh yeah, and be careful about NOVA (northern virginia) some of the localities have bans on CCW. LOL. toast |
i drove through VA just this past weekend, and have the richmond times in my hand. what are my chances of getting meaninfull employment there? how much would a small plot of land in the country cost? (thinking -+ 10 acres, country setting)in taxes too? its balmie down there compared to my place right now. |
Well I live out in the sticks of South Central Virgina so I can't comment on the the NOVA area other then it sucks. I am originally from NJ so the transition is possible. Listening to the guys complain about property taxes makes me chuckle. They don't know what real property taxes are like. I have family members with 100 by 200 lots in NJ who pay over $7500 a year in property taxes and these are the $900,000 plus homes that are springing up all over that state. I hate to think what those people pay. The Richmond,or Roanoke area may pay a little less but they are definitely a slower pace of life then NOVA. Plus there is no emissions standards for us that don't live in NOVA  The state is very gun friendly and is still a pretty hands off state as far as peoples rights are concerned. Class 3 friendly, shall issue, open carry in most parts, and lots of friendly gun owners. You do have to get used to the Red Necks though.  I agree with W-W about missing the choices for good cuisine in this state, but for the most part you get used to it. Lastly you definitely need to get out of that state you live in.
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This really shows you the difference in the areas of the state. A standard three bedroom house here in Virginia Beach runs $120K or so. We don't have to do the emissions check. Cars tend to have more rust. As for class three, it really does depend on the place. It's OK here in the Beach, but right over in Suffolk it's not. The CLEO there won't sign off. The state is a "Shall-issue" CCW. There's all kinds of little nickle and dime taxes that vary greatly from area to area. Each city seems left to it's own devices as to how to steal your cash. There is a state income tax (which came as a suprise after living in TX and FL which don't have any). It's not anywhere near as bad as CA's though (I came from San Jose originally, so I feel your pain, and know what it's truly like out there). Like I said, I live in Virginia Beach, which is the largest city in VA and our EMS is all volunteer. The fire department went pro several years back, though some areas in the Beach, and much in the rural areas still have volunteer fire/rescue. Really the best thing to do is figure out where you're interested in living, then finding out the deal. It really depends more on what you do for a living than anything else. My area is heavily military. That includes shipyards, service industry, govt jobs on the bases (there are MAJOR bases from all services here), and some lighter industry. There is a Ford truck plant and a Stihl chainsaw plant, and several other heavier industry plants around. There is a nuclear plant in Surry and a National Lab in Hampton. Most of the tech will be in IT for companies, or DoD geared around here. It really depends on what type of "Tech industry" you're talking about. Hampton Roads is the area's name that pretty much sums up the Southeast corner of the State. Ross |
Not that I am aware of. According to packing.org the places with the issues are some of the towns/cities around Portsmouth/Va Beach/Norfolk/Newport News. Which one were you thinking had issues with CCW? |
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Slipjoint, Came down from the North Myself. born and bred NYC and then spent 7 years in RI. We like the weather. you will probably think it is too cold. Traffic sucks ass. I can only speak for Fredericksburg it is half way between DC and Richmond. We are not considered NOVA yet but the prices of stuff giong up and traffic slowly getting worse weekly here. Great little city though. Everything cheaper here than where I came from but not for long I think. Not many places to shoot rifles nearby me unless you meet someone with their own property or manage to get into Quantico.(I,m on waiting list), as far as I have been able to find out so far. You will soon come to realize that a 2 hour trip to get somwhere is considered about average. Nice homes in my area start at 350k and up. But that depends on what YOU consider nice. I can hook you up with a good realtor and an even better builder depending on what type of neighborhood or not, you want to live in. Finding a property with enough land to shoot on and make it to work within a reasonable amount of time daily may be too much. It was for me, and so I gave up on it and just built a home in a nice subdivision. Lots of Gov't work, do not know about private, sorry. Cars = headaches, made me remove tint for inspection, bunch of stupid laws about stuff hanging on mirrors, how far tires can extend past wheel wells, not sure about hot rods, but I have seen a bunch of them so laws depend on what you do with your vehicle. CCW for me was quick and painless considering what I am used to.(NYC, RI) Remember 1 hour is a very short drive around here you may not find what you think anywhere near DC, the rest of the state seems to be a different story. hodinc.net My builder artillery ridge subdivision. Feel free to e-mail more questions. Nick |
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I looked up some data on Virginia Beach this morning, and I didn't realize it was that populous! I might have to fly out there soon, better to do so this winter so I can see how cold it can get. I have some friends who work in NOVA, but they are city types (they both own townhouses outside of Reston). Outside of cars and guns, what kind of recreation is most common? Watersports (I see many lakes on the map)? Any ski hills within state lines? By the way, thanks so much for the responses. So far I think there's enough information for us to put together a recon trip. If the airlines weren't so jittery, I might even sport a SUR (sport utility rifle)
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1. I don't see many hot rods here in the fairfax county area, i believe the have a few clubs in prince william count. There are vipers, porsches, ferraris, etc. Mustangs used to be pretty popular with the occasional show a couple of years ago when i was into that. lota rice rockets (not that there's anything wrong with that). 4. Plenty of good food from a variety of cultures here in NOVA. VA Beach is prety nice when the weather's warm, i used to be stationed just up the road at little creek and when we were in port, if my gear was all up i headed down there every afternoon. Lot of military presence around there, good concerts. |
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For the Techie, Northern VA is about the only option. IBM has a chip plan in Manassas and there are plenty of dot coms in the Sterling/Reston area. The cost of living is high, unless you are comparing it to CA. In that case, it is a freakin' bargain. Gun laws are livable. Hot rodding is easy if your car qualifies as an antique. I think the limit is 25 years old. That gets you out of smog issues and I think it eases up the inspections as well. I am a CA native and LOVE this place. I promise that you'll end up learning to hunt, fish of both. I moved here 12 years ago and have never looked back. |
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I moved to Virginia Beach 14 years ago from Pittsburgh and I like it. It has it's good and it's bad points but overall it's an all right place to live. The skiing in VA sucks but we're only 6 hours from Snowshoe or Seven Springs and it's good there, especially now! I think the gun laws are good; I’ve bought 3 ARs in the past month. I bought a handgun at the show in Richmond on the spot with instant background check (I guess). Depends which area of technology you are talking about. I’m a programmer/consultant and so are all my friends and so far, we’ll all still employed. This is a good area for DOD/Navy. If you have a clearance you’ll have a leg up. As far a recreation goes: Besides surfing, I play in an ice hockey league and race mountain bikes. Hope this gives you a better idea - Marc |
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On the CCW issue, I don't know of any municipalities that prohibit it... the City of Falls Church does prohibit open carry, which (to the best of my knowledge) is permitted everywhere else in the state. I'm in the technology business. (Dir of Sales for an ASP) Next to Northern Ca, NoVa has the nations largest concentration of tech jobs. Housing is relatively expensive in NoVa, but not in relation to many parts of CA. Sign up for ziprealty.com and check out the houses yourself. Hot Rodding. What type? One of my coworkers races his RX-7 every weekend. Don't know the details. Food? The DC area definetly has as much variety as San Fran and NYC - I've lived in both. Funny thing about Virginia (Northern, anyway): If you're from down south, you'll think it's northern. If you're from the north, you'll think it's southern. It's neither. Can't get sweet tea here, so I know it's not the South. I shoot at the NRA range - 50 yards indoor, state of the art. High power allowed. NoVa has good access to GW and Shenandoah Natl parks. Good recreatiobnal opportunities. I'd say that NoVa has great "balance." Access to high-paying jobs, but not like living in NY or LA suburbs. IM w/ questions. |
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I concur with Mark about employment in the Tech industry in Hampton Roads. If you have a clearance your in like flynn. Otherwise, your resume better be pretty snazzy. Compared to places like NC, the gun laws are not very bad. Several nice private ranges and a few public ones. Short trip to be in the sticks, hunting and fishing are common. Boating/fishing is the area pasttime, two large amusment parks open in the summer/early fall. I like it here, too bad I've got to move to Durham, NC soon. Want to rent a 4 bdrm house? |
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Virginia is THE finest state in the Union. The air is sweeter, the grass greener and the water bluer than any other. This state is rich in history, we boast having more presidents as sons of Virginia than any other. The Civil War was fought here. I'm proud to say I'm a Virginia son. I'd be proud to have you as a stepson of Virginia. Hurry up and leave klacky-for-ny-a before it falls into the ocean. VIRGINIA IS FOR LOVERS |
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For recreation in Virginia Beach, let's see.... If you're outdoorsy: The Appalacian Trail runs right through the state. There are several State parks (that you can now CCW in) in town, including First Landing (which is where the English first landed, go figure) which has hiking, camping, biking, etc. Several others are in the vicinity (Hampton Roads). The state includes other National Parks, etc. If you like the water/beach: I don't think it's anything to write home about personally. It's not bad, but I just don't see the big deal. I personally think there's better beaches elsewhere, but it's not bad or anything. There is plenty of boating, rafting, etc. I suppose since I live here, the beach just isn't as special. North Carolina's Outer Banks is basically part of the area. This includes the place where the Wright Bros first flew, and there's plenty of beach stuff down there. If you hunt/fish: There is a huge bay (the Chesapeke), and Virginia is a pro-hunting state. Even the democrats don't mess with hunting because they know it's political suicide to do so. There is a state constitutional amendment protecting hunting. PETA headquarters is right next door in Norfolk, and a local country radio station holds a fishing tournament right under them (they are located on the river) just to piss them off. Nightlife, etc: The city is a tourist area, in addition to being a housing area for the military. There are all sorts of bars, clubs etc. Too many to mention. More than found in most cities around here. History: The area abounds in historical areas and places. These include everything from the ducking of witches (which is where Witchduck Rd gets it's name) to Yorktown Battlefield and Williamsburg up north of here. There was a battle fought by local militia here in the Revolution, and the Monitor-Merrimac(CSS Virginia) sea battle. As for museums they are all over the place. Some choice one's are Nauticus, Mariner's museum, Marine Sience Museum, Children's museum, and many more. Sports: We have a hockey team and baseball team in Norfolk. I forgot the leauges. It's not quite Candlestick park, but it's fun. Cars: There are local car shows all the time. There are many car clubs as well that specialize in different types. You have to dig for that info yourself. SCCA races at a Navy airfield every month. You are within striking distance of many of the bigger car events, and there is Nascar and IndyRL at Richmond. Hampton has a raceway as well, and there is a drag strip over on the west side somewhere. It's not as extensive as California, but they're trying hard. Shooting: There are several ranges in the area, indoor and outdoor. Some of these allow full-auto. Most are run by military/ex-military and there isn't a "range nazi" attitude at any of the ones I've been to. There are IDPA matches regularly, as well as Cowboy Action Shooting. There are three gun matches at Dam Neck Naval Base. You will find plenty of people who are knowledgable about shooting and combat shooting. The even numbered SEAL teams/Special Boat teams are here as are the USMC FAST teams, and the USMC Designated Marksman Course. It wouldn't be a bad guess that half of the people living here can pick up an M16 and know how to use it from their current or past lives. Good things about Virginia Beach: There is the largest volunteer per capita ratio of any large city in the US. The city relies heavily on volunteers, and there is no shortage from the population. This results in a great deal of cooperation between the city and it's people, and builds a community spirit. Well, it might not be so far as to say "community spirit" like small town, but in an area where many people move in and out, it's pretty amazing. I have no hesitation at helping folks I don't know. Talking to folks I don't know out on the street is easy. It's just a nicer place than most big cities. Our crime rate is lower than other cities our size. Much of this is due to the make-up of the population, and the dual nature of the city. You have to understand that Virginia Beach (like Chesapeke, VA) is an independent city. So there isn't a county above it. Sorta like San Francisco is a county and city, only we don't have a county layer of government. So the city is friggin huge size wise, as well as people. There are still crops growing within five minutes drive time from the courthouse. I live dead center in the city, and I have a well. There is a crop field one block away. A couple of minutes the other direction is a shopping mall. If you're familiar with San Jose, it's like the way SJ was when it had orchards, and was just begining to become the boom town it turned into...before it got all messed up. The bad: There are bad areas of all towns, even each one in the Hampton Roads area has good and bad. Overall though, I've never had any problem, even in the projects in Portsmouth or Norfolk, or anywhere else. I suppose it's all on how you handle things yourself, but it's safer here than other big cities. There's still plenty of bad guys, so I do lock my house when I leave, and I lock my car. I don't overly worry about security though like I would in East Palo Alto. The Weather: It snows a couple times a year. It might stay on the ground a week or two all told. The winter is pretty mild compared to farther north in the state. Temps are moderated by the Chesapeke Bay and the Atlantic Ocean. It can get lows in the teens, but that's rare. In the summer it's pretty humid. I was suprised at how humid it was compared to Florida where I had moved from. It was pretty close. AC is nice to have. Probably half the year, the weather is very nice. Like the SF bay area, only without any smog. The summers just happen to be more humid, and the winters colder. As for food: Yeah, I'm afraid good places are harder to find. There's the standard chain fare, and plenty of good resaurants, but you have to seach out the really special places. You'll find them, hidden away in all sorts of bizarre places. They are there, just not out in plain view like they are in California. Let me know if I can help you find anything else out. Again, the Hampton Roads area isn't the only area in VA. I like it, but I haven't found really any bad places in VA in general. As a CA native, get out here and you'll like it. Ross |
| Wow... I thought I was the only CA expatriot around here. I've been here for almost 12 years and have actually developed a bit of a drawl. My girlfirned doesn't think so (she is a Central VA native with a HEAVY accent) but my partents sure can tell. Every time they come out for a visit, I make sure I take them to the fishing so they can see what kind of people I hang out with to develop it. |
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Alright, this is all great stuff. I'm saving your comments to disk and making notes of where to go on my recon flyby (which should be this February). My |
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Wrong. OK, well MOST of it is flat, but you are now pigeoning yourself in to NoVa. You will not see much in the way of hills in the VaBeach area. The Appalachian Mountians running right through the heart of the state. You'll need to get to at least Winchester 1-1.5 hours outside DC. You can see them on the skyline from as near east as Centreville, but it will be about 45 minutes from there before you are in them. |
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You can EASILY live in Front Royal/Winchester and commute to Manassas/Sterling/Herndon/Leesburg/Reston VA Relief Map This one is misleading, but gives you an idea of the elevations and such. |
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Maybe I was thinking about the open carry ban in parts of NOVA, sorry for talking out of my ass. In the 'Noke here (Roanoke), we have many large mountains. Take a look at the maps in previous posts. Lots of snow, too. Not that that is always a good thing...lol. Our local range is the Roanoke Rifle and Revolver Club (triple R' C for short). We have 100yard, 60 yard and 500 yard outdoor ranges with skeet, trap, and sporting clays. I'm the asst. IPSC director, so I know we have IPSC, IDPA and 3 gun matches. Real estate is expensive (to me at least) a 2000 sq ft 3 bedroom house will average $180K. There is quite a bit of land available though. ITT is in our area (the NV guys), and we are part of VA's "technology corridor." The beach is a great place to live, esp. if you have clearance. DC is a hop, skip, and a jump away. Oh and the personal property tax on cars is slowly dying. The only real problems I can think of are the state budget deficit and the illegal immigrants. Coming from CA, these should be old hat to you though. LOL. Anyway, good luck. toast |
My fiance is from Roanoke. Her family is still there. It is about 3.5-4 hours to our house just outside of DC. [we are 15 minutes tops to the Pentagon] Maybe next time I am down we can meet up and shoot at the 500 yard range? Let me know. Ed |
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Hills uh...not around here in the Beach. Hills start close by though. If you draw a line from DC to Richmond and continue on to NC, pretty much everything west of that line will have more than enough hills to satisfy that requirement. Remember that VA isn't anywhere as long as CA either, so it doesn't take you long to get anywhere. It's not like you're having to go from Fresno to Tahoe just to see hills. When you look at maps, make sure you look at the mileage scale. Anywhere in the state really isn't that far. Ross |
 Good point.... I'm just messin' with you. |
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Guys, thanks again for all the input. If you guys' comraderie is any indication, I'm sure we'll be in good company! I'll be re-igniting this thread if we come across some questions that only a VA native can best answer. I'm indebted to y'all - slipjoint, and Mrs. slipjoint |
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Another vote for the Richmond area. I just got transfered back there and I bought a house on 10 acres in Goochland County. Houses are getting a little pricey in Richmond itself. Goochland county is mostly rural, lots of farmland. Its gun friendly, good hunting with shotgun and bow only but you can target shoot with rifles. |
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I am a somewhat recent (1996) transplant to NOVA, so I'll chime in w/ my comments: 1) Car culture: If you are into jazzing-up foreign cars (the rice burner/"The Fast N' the Furious" crowd), then NOVA is a place 4 you. Harleys are also big and sport bikes (lotta Duc's round here) are represented also.... 2) As others have stated, status quo seems the best description. I am transplanted from the Peoples' Republik of Illinois (the Chicago "Province" to be exact) and the gun/CCW laws are very good in comparison.... 3)Housing costs in the Dulles Tech corridor (basically this is an area running east/southeast from Leesburg through Reston) are not cheap. I know someone said Ashburn was relatively inexpensive, but that is no longer the case. A small townhouse with NO garage (existing sale, NOT new constr) goes for $230K and up. A single family home (new construction) is a minimum of $400K (that's with NO upgrades). Coming from Kalifornia this might seem ok, but for us folks here, housing has skyrocketed in the last 3 years. I bought a townhouse (one car garage) in '96 for $150. Sold it in 2001 (right after 9/11) for $220. If 9/11 had not happened, I could have gotten $250. In 1996, the biggest and most expensive single family home in that subdivision was $315K. Now, you could not touch that same house for less than $490. What happened was the tech boom had folks buying homes sight unseen (especially the new constr) for whatever the asking price was. Now, things have somewhat slowed, but the housing costs are still rising, in spite of the slow economy (very low interest rates seem to be keeping the market somewhat hot). The new homeland security spending binge has money flowing ito the area, so housing is still in demand. Yes, you could live in Winchester/Front Royal/etc and commute to the tech corridor, but you will sit in some traffic. Now, having said that, utilities are somewhat inexpensive (compared to what I was paying in Chicago) with the exception being water. In Chicago, water was billed per thousand cubic feet in volume. Here, it is billed per thousand gallons. There is more than 1000 gallons of water in 1000 cubic feet. In Chicago, I was paying less than a dollar per thousand cubic feet, in Loudoun County, water is about $1.60 per thousand gallons. If you go to Leesburg, it jumps to $2.99 per thousand. If you are a non Leesburg resident getting Leesburg water, you pay a whopping $3.99 per thousand gallons. It is price induced water conservation. The associated sewer charges are not cheap either. Other than that, it's a great place to live. The police are not overbearing (at least not in Loudoun County) for the most part and the folks are pretty friendly. Learn how to drive in snow! |
Let me know if you are able to get a CLEO sign off for NFA stuff. |
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slipjoint- Front Royal-Winchester. It's where I hail from originally. All the hills and mountains your wife could want. $300k will buy you a nice big house on five or so acres. Real estate is getting more expensive in a hurry, so it's a great investment if you buy now. DC is an hour away, the Virginia suburbs a little less. It's a little bit of a commute, but if you're driving during rush hour it's going to be a pain in the ass no matter where you live. Front Royal is about 30k people, nice little town with all the basic neccesities(sp?). Lots of room out in the county around it. Winchester is a little bigger, but still under 100k. Shenandoah University is there, and there are lots of nice restaurants and bars. Plenty of great hiking, camping, fishing and hunting. Nudie bars, horses and slots just over the WV border, maybe 30 minutes. C'mon down! |