Posted: 5/17/2010 5:09:27 PM EDT
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how about a brief discussion of HB 2264?
This bill that I believe you co-sponsored, otherwise known as Gunner's law, was named after a motorcyclist that was killed by a driver who didn't see Mr. Gunner. The bill enacts a 3.00 per bike per registration tax to support biker education? Shouldn't the plan be to tax the drivers to expand driver education on being attentive and cognizant of what's going on outside their vehicle? Rather than tax the cagers who don't see the motorcyclists, the solution is to tax the victims of ignorant drivers? I see nothing but the creation of a committee, the enactment of a tax, and no information on how it's going to reduce fatalities. Thoughts? |
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“ABATE and the motorcyclists of Oklahoma asked the legislature for the additional fee so that a comprehensive motorcycle safety program could be created for the entire state,” said John Pierce, legislative coordinator for ABATE of Oklahoma. “Together, we will make Oklahoma a better place to ride motorcycles.”
Is the state going to offer free motorcycle safety classes? Is the state going to author it's very own Hurt style report? All I see is a so-called biker rights organization who seems to have got some legislation passed that alludes to some ambiguous 'program' that will likely line the pockets of the committee members who comprise the board. Five bucks says the board is made up of the same groups that pushed for the legislation. And check out the COC, who is being thanked for their support. Look at the clubs... We are also grateful to those who put there money where their beliefs are and joined ABATE of Oklahoma. The COC with their thousands of members and tight organization also made a very positive force.
COC The head board member is a 1%'er, another is a member of a support club for the Outlaws MC, another 1% club. The Hessians I'm unsure of. Notice the ABATE liason. Nothing but a suspicion here, but what kind of controls are on the money, because it might end up somewhere other than a safety program. |
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I'm really tired of being nickel and dimed to death. Everytime I turn around, some group, organization, local, state, or federal agency, or non-profit's got its hand in my pocket. I hope there's a good explanation, but I doubt it. The gov't needs more cash. Where else to get it but from those who have it? 
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I'm really tired of being nickel and dimed to death. Everytime I turn around, some group, organization, local, state, or federal agency, or non-profit's got its hand in my pocket. I hope there's a good explanation, but I doubt it. The gov't needs more cash. Where else to get it but from those who have it? Well, I'm fucking running out of it. |
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I'm really tired of being nickel and dimed to death. Everytime I turn around, some group, organization, local, state, or federal agency, or non-profit's got its hand in my pocket. I hope there's a good explanation, but I doubt it. The gov't needs more cash. Where else to get it but from those who have it? Well, I'm fucking running out of it. Well said. I have to agree 100% with you Sam. I really dont understand the logic of it being an education shortcomming of bikers because we get run down by other motorists due to their inability to pay attention and their educational shortcommings. So yeah. Lets charge the bikers. Not the people responsible in the first place. Its the same principle of "lets go after the guns, not the criminals" BS |
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Well, let me tell you about gov't officials. Francis Tuttle CareerTech, who gets a LARGE chunk of my property tax every year, says they are at 100% and need to build more space.
According to their superintendent, a class room or facility being used once a day is a full load on the building. The more money they have, the more important they are, the more money the administrators make. So hell yeah, they want more money. By the way, they are trying to up your Driver's License fees to $50 for renewal. I've been through several recessions in my working life, and every time there are shortfalls in the gov't budget, taxes and fees get raised. |
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By the way, they are trying to up your Driver's License fees to $50 for renewal. My dad taught me an interesting lesson. Pennsylvania has a mandatory vehicle inspection. The inspection costs a little less than the ticket for not having a current inspection. He doesn't get the inspection done because the ticket is so close to the cost of the inspection. Last time he made it three years without a ticket. So he paid the ticket and still doesn't have a current inspection. What's the moral of the story (besides the fact my dad is a 'criminal') ? Government can raise fees to a point that it's more economical to pay the ticket. Keep boosting fees on licenses and you'll either reduce the number of drivers or increase the number of scofflaws. Both situations are a loss for the government. Jack them up high enough and you'll see them challenged using the commerce clause. |
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how about a brief discussion of HB 2264? This bill that I believe you co-sponsored, otherwise known as Gunner's law, was named after a motorcyclist that was killed by a driver who didn't see Mr. Gunner. The bill enacts a 3.00 per bike per registration tax to support biker education? Shouldn't the plan be to tax the drivers to expand driver education on being attentive and cognizant of what's going on outside their vehicle? Rather than tax the cagers who don't see the motorcyclists, the solution is to tax the victims of ignorant drivers? I see nothing but the creation of a committee, the enactment of a tax, and no information on how it's going to reduce fatalities. Thoughts? Steve's a good guy and all, but you need to remember that he's a retired LTC. It's common knowledge that Army Officers are anti-bike.  Its a simple risk averse/force protection thing. Don't believe me? Look at all the new and wonderful motorcycle programs on Ft Sill. Mandatory mentorship program, mandatory progressive training, getting approved to even buy a bike, etc, etc.
I fully expect to see the Army outlaw motorcycles at some time in the future. Way too many young knuckleheads riding sport bikes at 900 mph and killing themselves when they wreck. The .gov never gives money back. Its like a crack addict. It just needs more and more "crack". 
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It seems to me that the so called 'confederation of clubs' is primarily a confederation of 1% clubs, not necessarily the kind of people most motorcyclists want to run around with. I cringe every time I see the ABATE bunch up at the capitol promoting something, I'm sure some of those are nice guys, but what you invariably see is a bunch of guys making a bad impression on the lawmakers, maybe the cameras are just following around the worst looking of the bunch, it wouldn't be the first time they did something like that. |
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how about a brief discussion of HB 2264? This bill that I believe you co-sponsored, otherwise known as Gunner's law, was named after a motorcyclist that was killed by a driver who didn't see Mr. Gunner. The bill enacts a 3.00 per bike per registration tax to support biker education? Shouldn't the plan be to tax the drivers to expand driver education on being attentive and cognizant of what's going on outside their vehicle? Rather than tax the cagers who don't see the motorcyclists, the solution is to tax the victims of ignorant drivers? I see nothing but the creation of a committee, the enactment of a tax, and no information on how it's going to reduce fatalities. Thoughts? Steve's a good guy and all, but you need to remember that he's a retired LTC. It's common knowledge that Army Officers are anti-bike. Don't believe me? Look at all the new and wonderful motorcycle programs on Ft Sill. Mandatory mentorship program, mandatory progressive training, getting approved to even buy a bike, etc, etc.
I fully expect to see the Army outlaw motorcycles at some time in the future. Way too many young knuckleheads riding sport bikes at 900 mph and killing themselves when they wreck. The .gov never gives money back. Its like a crack addict. It just needs more and more "crack".
And all the mandatory training motivates Soldiers to keep bike ownership a secret from their command. The MSF course is the greatest thing to happen to new riders in thirty years or more. They should've left it at that. Taxes? I can't recall ever seeing one reduced. |
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.....Taxes? I can't recall ever seeing one reduced. That's gospel if I ever heard it. The Turner Turnpike was supposed to be free after it's bonds got paid off in 1966. I think that free road has gotten several hundred off of me just in the last ten years.
You can always believe the gov't. It never lies to the people!!!!
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It seems to me that the so called 'confederation of clubs' is primarily a confederation of 1% clubs, not necessarily the kind of people most motorcyclists want to run around with. I cringe every time I see the ABATE bunch up at the capitol promoting something, I'm sure some of those are nice guys, but what you invariably see is a bunch of guys making a bad impression on the lawmakers, maybe the cameras are just following around the worst looking of the bunch, it wouldn't be the first time they did something like that. 1% clubs "lead" the COC in a number of states. As an example, Tennessee and Florida have Outlaws as their Chair and Vice chair. Texas's chairman and director of operations positions are held by Bandidos. COC's are 'advertised' as a way to maintain peace between clubs and as a biker rights organization, and controlling what clubs exist in a state or region is one way they keep the peace. Coincidentally, it's also a great way to control territory. Technically, you couldn't start your own club in Oklahoma without the COC approval. To get approval to start a club a plan is presented to the COC. By-name positions and bylaws are strongly suggested and the COC votes on allowing the prospective club AND it's backpatch/cut/two or three piece to exist in the area it controls. Exceptions are LEO clubs for obvious reasons and the Harley Owners Group, which has a rule that chapters may not use a state rocker under the HOG logo. |
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I'm really tired of being nickel and dimed to death. Everytime I turn around, some group, organization, local, state, or federal agency, or non-profit's got its hand in my pocket. I hope there's a good explanation, but I doubt it. The gov't needs more cash. Where else to get it but from those who have it? Well, I'm fucking running out of it. Well said. I have to agree 100% with you Sam. I really dont understand the logic of it being an education shortcomming of bikers because we get run down by other motorists due to their inability to pay attention and their educational shortcommings. So yeah. Lets charge the bikers. Not the people responsible in the first place. Its the same principle of "lets go after the guns, not the criminals" BS You know, I was thinking maybe I was wrong, maybe I was missing something, but you came to the same conclusion. |
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Sorry for the late reply guys.
Sam, many biker groups approached me last year on this issue. They had originally asked the Dept of Motor Veh to include motorcycle safety precautions in the regular drivers handbooks because they are absent. As you are aware I am certain, most bikers die to somebody clobbering them in a car. The groups felt that if the safety training and handbook provisions were made, it would help prevent some of that. I tend to agree as the statistics show this in states where they are provided. Of course there was no way the DMV would do this. Not without funding. So they went back and forth. Finally, they asked how much would it take to make the changes. DMV gave them a figure. The biker groups then determined that if they raised it themselves on their own licenses, then it would be about $3.00. Hence the fee. I have stood my ground on fees. But this one was from the very groups impacted. As I work with lots of veterans groups as well which include lots of bikers, they came to me and asked for help knowing I could probably get it through. Although it hit a snag last year, we did succeed this year. There is the whole story. I knew some would like it and some would not. And contrary to Chuck's amusing and snide officer comments, I take no offense. You guys will always have the liberty to be open with me and I have tried to do the same with you. If a guy wants to ride a crotch rocket with no helmet, great. If he wants to ride the $20K Harley, great. And I no more supported all the insane on post laws than anyone else did. They made about as much sense to me as all the stupid one-way streets on post or at the gas station. But we lived with them. I am not happy about fees any more than you are. But rare is the fee where the very groups that are impacted ask for them. As to the ins and outs of biker group politics, I leave that to the experts. Steve |
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Quoted: Sorry for the late reply guys. Sam, many biker groups approached me last year on this issue. They had originally asked the Dept of Motor Veh to include motorcycle safety precautions in the regular drivers handbooks because they are absent. As you are aware I am certain, most bikers die to somebody clobbering them in a car. The groups felt that if the safety training and handbook provisions were made, it would help prevent some of that. I tend to agree as the statistics show this in states where they are provided. Of course there was no way the DMV would do this. Not without funding. So they went back and forth. Finally, they asked how much would it take to make the changes. DMV gave them a figure. The biker groups then determined that if they raised it themselves on their own licenses, then it would be about $3.00. Hence the fee. I have stood my ground on fees. But this one was from the very groups impacted. As I work with lots of veterans groups as well which include lots of bikers, they came to me and asked for help knowing I could probably get it through. Although it hit a snag last year, we did succeed this year. There is the whole story. I knew some would like it and some would not. And contrary to Chuck's amusing and snide officer comments, I take no offense. You guys will always have the liberty to be open with me and I have tried to do the same with you. If a guy wants to ride a crotch rocket with no helmet, great. If he wants to ride the $20K Harley, great. And I no more supported all the insane on post laws than anyone else did. They made about as much sense to me as all the stupid one-way streets on post or at the gas station. But we lived with them. I am not happy about fees any more than you are. But rare is the fee where the very groups that are impacted ask for them. As to the ins and outs of biker group politics, I leave that to the experts. Steve That is an explanation I can live with , thank you for taking the time to lets us know about it. |
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Sorry for the late reply guys. Sam, many biker groups approached me last year on this issue. They had originally asked the Dept of Motor Veh to include motorcycle safety precautions in the regular drivers handbooks because they are absent. As you are aware I am certain, most bikers die to somebody clobbering them in a car. The groups felt that if the safety training and handbook provisions were made, it would help prevent some of that. I tend to agree as the statistics show this in states where they are provided. Of course there was no way the DMV would do this. Not without funding. So they went back and forth. Finally, they asked how much would it take to make the changes. DMV gave them a figure. The biker groups then determined that if they raised it themselves on their own licenses, then it would be about $3.00. Hence the fee. I have stood my ground on fees. But this one was from the very groups impacted. As I work with lots of veterans groups as well which include lots of bikers, they came to me and asked for help knowing I could probably get it through. Although it hit a snag last year, we did succeed this year. There is the whole story. I knew some would like it and some would not. And contrary to Chuck's amusing and snide officer comments, I take no offense. You guys will always have the liberty to be open with me and I have tried to do the same with you. If a guy wants to ride a crotch rocket with no helmet, great. If he wants to ride the $20K Harley, great. And I no more supported all the insane on post laws than anyone else did. They made about as much sense to me as all the stupid one-way streets on post or at the gas station. But we lived with them. I am not happy about fees any more than you are. But rare is the fee where the very groups that are impacted ask for them. As to the ins and outs of biker group politics, I leave that to the experts. Steve Thank you for the reply, it means a lot. What this means is that I have to become more pro-active in reading and tracking proposed legislation. I understand the intent of this legislation, but the execution is wrong. Bikers generally aren't getting run over by other bikers. That a Motorcycle Rights Organization would throw it's own constituents under the bus when more money could've been realized by adding a fair and equitable 10 cent fee to ALL registrations to improve driver awareness of bikes defies logic. This same MRO rallies against mandatory helmet laws because it's an individual's right and they turn around and lobby for a fee that is mandatory. Hypocrisy at it's finest. I'm still amazed that the solution to the problem is to tax bikers because car drivers are hitting us. I guarantee the next two years of motorcycle accident figures will show no reduction. End result, bikers pay more and still get run down. There's an angle to this and it involves money. |
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It's impressive that they were willing to step up and offer for their people to pay. Seem anymore that many people want something but think that it should be up to someone else to pay for it.. Andy.. "Their people" don't include all bikers. Someone else IS paying for it. I'm paying because they threw the entire Oklahoma riding public under the bus to support their agenda. |
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It's impressive that they were willing to step up and offer for their people to pay. Seem anymore that many people want something but think that it should be up to someone else to pay for it.. Andy.. "Their people" don't include all bikers. Someone else IS paying for it. I'm paying because they threw the entire Oklahoma riding public under the bus to support their agenda. that's what it sounds like to me |
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Sorry for the late reply guys. Sam, many biker groups approached me last year on this issue. They had originally asked the Dept of Motor Veh to include motorcycle safety precautions in the regular drivers handbooks because they are absent. As you are aware I am certain, most bikers die to somebody clobbering them in a car. The groups felt that if the safety training and handbook provisions were made, it would help prevent some of that. I tend to agree as the statistics show this in states where they are provided. Of course there was no way the DMV would do this. Not without funding. So they went back and forth. Finally, they asked how much would it take to make the changes. DMV gave them a figure. The biker groups then determined that if they raised it themselves on their own licenses, then it would be about $3.00. Hence the fee. I have stood my ground on fees. But this one was from the very groups impacted. As I work with lots of veterans groups as well which include lots of bikers, they came to me and asked for help knowing I could probably get it through. Although it hit a snag last year, we did succeed this year. There is the whole story. I knew some would like it and some would not. And contrary to Chuck's amusing and snide officer comments, I take no offense. You guys will always have the liberty to be open with me and I have tried to do the same with you. If a guy wants to ride a crotch rocket with no helmet, great. If he wants to ride the $20K Harley, great. And I no more supported all the insane on post laws than anyone else did. They made about as much sense to me as all the stupid one-way streets on post or at the gas station. But we lived with them. I am not happy about fees any more than you are. But rare is the fee where the very groups that are impacted ask for them. As to the ins and outs of biker group politics, I leave that to the experts. Steve You know what? You're right, I probably should'nt have made that comment. I applaud you for your self-control in responding to it. 
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