Posted: 11/11/2010 7:42:22 AM EDT
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I'm interested in adding a 7.62 rifle to my 'collection' and wonder what opinions are between these two rifles.
Cost is a factor but not the leading one. In practical terms the M4 is great for 'around the house' stuff, but when the Zombies come and you need address your grievances to parties over 500 meters away a 7.62 based rifle seems to be a better tool. Question is: given these two rifles as the available choices (not interested in anything else) which do you grab? Which one would survive long term abuse, little to no available maintenace and only the occasional real cleaning? In other words: if things really went to hell which would you take with you? The FAL I'm thinking about is the PTR 91, if there are other ones available I'd consider them. Also, how easy is to to add an ACOG to these rifles? I don't care about the tacticool shit, I dont want flash lights, bipods and espresso makers hanging off my weapons. Just the stuff to TCB. |
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crap - they look alike. guess my n00b is showing again.
Update - guess I should have done some googling before asking b/c the example (the PTR 91) I was looking at thinking it was an FAL variant aint. Say La Vee as the frog say. Anyway - so what I'm looking at isnt all that different from buying an AK or an AR. Perhaps not as popular but it appears to be made by a few place. Century Arms seems to the main one. Still interested in the answers. |
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Quoted:
I'm interested in adding a 7.62 rifle to my 'collection' and wonder what opinions are between these two rifles. Cost is a factor but not the leading one. In practical terms the M4 is great for 'around the house' stuff, but when the Zombies come and you need address your grievances to parties over 500 meters away a 7.62 based rifle seems to be a better tool. Question is: given these two rifles as the available choices (not interested in anything else) which do you grab? Which one would survive long term abuse, little to no available maintenace and only the occasional real cleaning? In other words: if things really went to hell which would you take with you? The FAL I'm thinking about is the PTR 91, if there are other ones available I'd consider them. Also, how easy is to to add an ACOG to these rifles? I don't care about the tacticool shit, I dont want flash lights, bipods and espresso makers hanging off my weapons. Just the stuff to TCB. Flashlight to blind zombie at close range. 
Both are battle rifles. Both are good, but between the two, I like FAL. |
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If it's between only the M1A and the FAL, I'd recommend the FAL for the more durable of the two. Why? Check out this thread on the FAL Files website:
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=68486&pagenumber=1 However, be forewarned that your run-of-the-mill FAL isn't exactly what one would consider a 1/2 MOA gun. For out-of-the-box accuracy, the nod probably goes to the M1A. |
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The FAL and The M-14 / M-1A are both winners.
FAL has a long service history and many thus variants from Hvy bbl SAW, to short bbl folding stock para. FAL is probably more reliable in the extreme due to the adjustable gas system. FALs do not have good trigger pull and getting one modified is neither easy or cheap if done right M-1A is more accurate out of the box, and much more accurate with some simple tune up modifications Better Trigger in the M-1A and also easy to tune up easy and inexpensive. M-1A has better ergonomics (in my opinion). I like the safety location and magazine release location better . Also another + is they work with both lefties and righties. Magazines are a tie - FAL mags are still fairly plentyful and affordable. M-1A mags are back in production so prices are reasonable too. While neither is ideal for scope mount, I think give the M-1A the edge in mounted optics (using Brookfield precision or Smith mounts) The M-1A is still / back in use with our forces so give that a + too If I had to choose only one, I'd go M-1A , but wouldn't feel terrible if I was issued a FAL instead. |
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Quoted:
The FAL and The M-14 / M-1A are both winners. FAL has a long service history and many thus variants from Hvy bbl SAW, to short bbl folding stock para. FAL is probably more reliable in the extreme due to the adjustable gas system. FALs do not have good trigger pull and getting one modified is neither easy or cheap if done right M-1A is more accurate out of the box, and much more accurate with some simple tune up modifications Better Trigger in the M-1A and also easy to tune up easy and inexpensive. M-1A has better ergonomics (in my opinion). I like the safety location and magazine release location better . Also another + is they work with both lefties and righties. Magazines are a tie - FAL mags are still fairly plentyful and affordable. M-1A mags are back in production so prices are reasonable too. While neither is ideal for scope mount, I think give the M-1A the edge in mounted optics (using Brookfield precision or Smith mounts) The M-1A is still / back in use with our forces so give that a + too If I had to choose only one, I'd go M-1A , but wouldn't feel terrible if I was issued a FAL instead. I'd lean towards the M-14 for the reasons stated above but mostly due to the trigger and stock iron sights alone both of them have 21-22" barrels as standard models I'm not sure when the M-1A Scout became available but it's my choice as a goto DSA has the FAL variants in just about any length you want/can afford ClassIII etc.... but if you are interested in an FAL??????????? I know someone with one FYI |
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Had both, for many years.
Used in all kinds of matches, hunting trips, and other stuff. Would highly recommend a RRA 308. Would not recommend a Century gun for my "one gun". Do your own research and make your own conclusions but for me the RRA 308 is allot of gun for the money. More accurate than the FAL and more handy than the M1A. Parts compatible with 5.56 guns and accessories. And cheap mags. (Fal mags) |
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Asking the questions is part of the way I'm researching this.
I'm starting to think that adding an FAL & an AK to my 'collection' will mostly be for fun after all the bills are paid and stuff I actually 'need' is in hand. Like new race faiings for the bike. So I had a quick chat w/ a friend of mine who is not a mall ninja but actually uses these tools for a living. Given the parameters I specified (accuracy beyond 500meters, tough & low maintenance) he said either the M1A or a DPMS 308 which I suppose is like the RRA 308. More learning and research to do, but I do see the benefits of going with a 308 variant of the AR: I can swap things like an ACOG between the two without any fuss. Part of the reason the FAL interests me is the history of it. It seems sorta like the AK in that it shows up all over the world in the hands of rebels and 'freedom' fighters. You don't usually see ARs in their hands. More researching to do. Thanks for all the feedback. |
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I would never consider a current M1A. Too many issues regarding cracks in things that shouldnt crack.
Safety is a poor design. You put your finger inside the triggerguard a push forward. Basic M1As are not very accurate, and while "tune ups" will improve accuracy, its only temporary. True the M14 is in service with the US again, but thats simply because they are already bought and paid for. No other reason at all. GB is doing the samething with their L1s(their version od a FAL). The trigger is meh. Its an OK trigger at best. It can be upgraded fairly easily. Adding optics means you no longer can have a proper cheek weld unless you add a riser to the stock. Going SBR or carbine, they have a spotty reputation at best. This thread in the SWAT Magazine forum was in response to an article written by someone who carried an M14 as a DMR in Iraq/Afghanistan. He wasnt thrilled. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=131&t=1003380 I would take a FAL everyday of the week over any M1A coming out of Springfield Armory. Safety is similar to the AR, and in a safe location. Same-Same accuracy with a basic M1A. Still in service to this day, and despite what many believe, has seen much more action. The trigger is meh. Its an OK trigger at best. It can be upgraded fairly easily. Adding optics is easier because the rise in the stock and low mounts from DSA or B&T. Mags are plentiful and very cheap. Going SBR or carbine, they actually work. |
| Hell, jk, you changed parameters on me mid-thread. You initially asked about the M1A or FAL only, so that's why I went FAL. If you're also considering something along the lines of a 308 AR, I'd definitely recommend one of those over either the M1A or the FAL for your purposes. The Armalite, DPMS, or the RRA offering are all reasonably priced, and I think on average they're probably in the same quality range. For a lot more money you can get one of the high end guns like a Larue or a Knight's, but I would have trouble justifying the extra coin for what would likely be only a slight improvement in group size (in my case). I find that the 308 AR is a much easier gun to shoot accurately at distance than the FAL, mostly because it's easier to scope and to add a bipod to a free float tube. |
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In regard to changing parameters half way through, normally I'd say 'so shoot me' but with this group somebody might take me literal and have the hardware on hand to do it. Part of the reason for the restriction was that I really don't know shit about this stuff and there are a lot of choices available and then having made a choice you just find out that there are more choices to make. My frigging M&P15 is just the beginning of the AR game. Trigger needs to be cleaned up, I want troy BUIS with the tritium dots, and amby everything (I can shoot from either side). And we arent even to the discussion of scopes - go with an ACOG or something else? fixed or variable? red dot? Do you like your espesso from a press or are you ok with a pump? What ammo? it is worse than motorcycles (which oil is best? And which tires give the best grip? :) )
Anyway, the reason for the addition of the AR base was the non-MN recommendation. A CAI FAL is around $750 which makes it damn attractive. The 'lowend' 308 ARs are right at 1K. The cheapest I've seen for a new M1A is $1.2K and I havent been able to find that lately, generally it is $1.5K Which to me opens the door to just nutting out and getting a SCAR-H. If you're going to be a Mall Ninja go all the damn way. As I said: money aint really the issue although not blowing the whole wad leaves room for things like an ACOG and other required accessories. I also was not aware that this question had already come up in the past around here. I thought I was being clever playing the FAL off the M1A. I'd love a real M14 but all I see are Chinese replicas. Not interested. |
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I'd take a Chinese M-14/S clone over a Century FAL any and every day of the week.
The Chinese M-14/S has a GREAT steel forged receiver that is the heart of the gun. There were some issues with some of the early imports having a bolt that was not fully heat treated and thus somewhat soft. There are several smiths that fit USGI Bolts to those Chinese guns and they are great shooters. Century has the absolute amazing ability to mess up any and every gun they are involved with. |
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The AR10 is the way to go. Esp if you already have an AR15. The ergonomics alone make it the right choice. Parts swap, custom grips and being able to move scopes and grips and telescoping butt stocks. Even the ease of cleaning is better.
My armalite with a stainless barrel is 3/4 MOA. You won't get that with the other two unless you go NM. |
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Good thread. I've had this debate going on with a friend for a few years now. I've wanted an M14 or M1A most of my life but never thought about the optics etc. I hadn't before really considered an AR10 but I think I'm sold on being able to swap optics and accessories from my AR15.
Personally, before making a purchase, I always recommend shooting one of each that you are considering. How well you hit with it, the feel, weight etc tend to be the deciding factors to me. Otherwise, how often will it leave the safe? Just my two cents... Though, one of each never hurts. 
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I wouldnt do a CAI FAL.
I would contact Randy Kline in Jacksonville, TX. He builds fantastic FALs, and can tailor one to you and your budget. Also, to make it easy on your pocketbook, you can pay some at a time. Alos, fuck tritium dots on a rear sight that is so close to your eye will draw your attention away from the front. Basically, you dont need all the "cool guy" shit. Take a carbine course and let that lead you what you need. |
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Quoted:
I wouldnt do a CAI FAL. I would contact Randy Kline in Jacksonville, TX. He builds fantastic FALs, and can tailor one to you and your budget. Also, to make it easy on your pocketbook, you can pay some at a time. Alos, fuck tritium dots on a rear sight that is so close to your eye will draw your attention away from the front. Basically, you dont need all the "cool guy" shit. Take a carbine course and let that lead you what you need. I haven't seen Randy in a while but he built a couple of mine. 
I passes through J-Ville today on the way to Tyler. BigDozer66 |
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If you want a collector rifle that is fun to shoot get the M1A. An M1A will bring a smile to your face ever time you take it out of the safe and fondle it.
Something about a wood stocked M1A that just feels the way a rifle should. To get the best accuracy you may have to get it tuned but most shoot very well right out of the box. Generally the more original GI parts the rifle has the better. Older Springfield rifles used all GI parts except for the receiver. Keep in mind a Springfield "loaded" rifles are just a marketing gimmick. It just means Springfield ran low on GI chrome lined barrels and original GI stocks and used non GI parts. I have a loaded and a preban. Preban has a Winchester chrome lined barrel and is more accurate than the loaded model. Scope mounts are expensive but available from several manufacturers. L1A1's and FAL's can be great rifles. An L1A1 or FAL that is built right is very reliable and reasonably accurate. My L1A1 is the least finicky semi auto I have ever owned (it is a Century build- I took a chance because it was only $350). For every good FAL that was built there is a bad one. Buyer beware. Lots of guns were built on out of spec receivers and with worn out parts. There are also many home built guns assembled by people not qualified to put a FAL together correctly. Go with a preban or one built buy a known builder that has a good reputation. Yes, you can add a scope . Then you can't remove the dust cover without losing your zero. Makes servicing the rifle harder. It will be cheaper than the M1A but you get what you pay for. Other than being able to break the weapon open and clean the barrel from the breach there is not any real advantage to getting FAL. I have both . M1A for me. |
