Posted: 8/1/2013 5:59:06 AM EDT
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I am wanting to get started on some stamp collecting but have some questions?
I understand that you do not need CLEO sign off with a trust and you can pass the item to someone else in case of your untimely demise also. My question is my buddy said he just filed for his stamp no trust no nothing just filled the form. What happens to the item he got when he kicks off and can other people use the item? I assume he can't give to some one to borrow to go to the range. With the trust I can have my wife on it so she could take the kid shooting with said NFA item if I was not able to but am unsure if this can be done the way he did his. Just trying to figure out if the trust is worth the money. I see a lot of people getting them but they are $250 -$1000 depending on who you go to and I don't trust my self to make one using the willmaker software. |
| They can be passed tax free to a heir no matter which path you choose. The trust route does, currently, allow you to skip CLEO signoff, prints and pictures, as well as adding and removing members to the trust, wherein they can use the NFA items without a babysitter. |
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It's worth the money.......do it. Don't dick around with Willmaker--if you screw something up, do you really want your NFA items in probate??
Your kid can't be on the gun trust until he or she turns 21, but your wife can. Be careful adding buddies, because the trust and everyone on the trust is going to feel the pain if they screw up (like get cross a state line w/o paperwork.) BTW, even if you just go the individual route, the items can pass tax free on a Form 5. BUT, someone needs to do the paperwork. If the wife just gives the NFA items to the kids or someone, both are going to be in deep trouble since they were not only illegally possessed, but transferred. Get a trust and a settlor trustee on there who knows what to do. |
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I set up a trust several years ago (for other reasons), but because of the old requirement in Missouri that you had to have a FFL, and the ATF not giving C&Rs to trusts, my SBR is in my name, not the trust. When Missouri dropped the FFL requirement, I did some checking.
There is a "transfer on death" where the SBR can be transferred to an heir for free. They will transfer to a person, not a trust. I have the paperwork already filled out (mostly) and in the safe deposit box at the bank with all of my other papers. I could pay yet another $200 to have the SBR transferred to the trust. As much as I loathe the thought of giving the government another $200, I'll probably break down and do that, just to make life easier in the future. |
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So if I already own the rifle I want to SBR I need to transfer it to the trust before I send in the Form? So all NFA items will be purchased and listed as owned by the trust.
Are there any good lawyers in the south KC area / Lees Summit that will do a trust for me for under $400. |
| Man this is one of the most confusing topics iv'e had to wrap my head around. So to be more specific about this trust, Is its actual name "trust" or is this a revocable or irrevocable type? Or does it even matter which? What is the main purpose's of having this created in order to get your stamp without going the cleo (pic print) route? Is it even needed for anything more than transferring upon death (which i'm now confused about because someone mentioned the ability to TOD it without a trust) or lending your rifle out to friends or trustees to go plinking, hunting ect babysitter free? Someone mentioned crossing state lines, do you have to have a trust in order to do so (hunting trips for example)? I'm new to all this tax stamp nonsense (started the research last night actually) and am a bit overwhelmed at the lack of answers i have for my questions. Seems all the forums i find are in the "4th semester" stage of all this and iv'e to hit the ground running so to speak not knowing even where to start. Wanting to build an sbr from a pistol base so i can at least have a legal functioning firearm until i get stamped and it seems the trust route is the way to go. Hoping i can get some facts to get me up to speed on all this. Any and all feedback much appreciated. Thanks, iv'e tons more questions and to have some near live feedback or a Q and A session would be great. |
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While I know the guys here have no problem answering questions, you will also find some good information in the sbr section of the armory. http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/51_.html
Quoted:
Man this is one of the most confusing topics iv'e had to wrap my head around. So to be more specific about this trust, Is its actual name "trust" or is this a revocable or irrevocable type? Or does it even matter which? What is the main purpose's of having this created in order to get your stamp without going the cleo (pic print) route? Is it even needed for anything more than transferring upon death (which i'm now confused about because someone mentioned the ability to TOD it without a trust) or lending your rifle out to friends or trustees to go plinking, hunting ect babysitter free? Someone mentioned crossing state lines, do you have to have a trust in order to do so (hunting trips for example)? I'm new to all this tax stamp nonsense (started the research last night actually) and am a bit overwhelmed at the lack of answers i have for my questions. Seems all the forums i find are in the "4th semester" stage of all this and iv'e to hit the ground running so to speak not knowing even where to start. Wanting to build an sbr from a pistol base so i can at least have a legal functioning firearm until i get stamped and it seems the trust route is the way to go. Hoping i can get some facts to get me up to speed on all this. Any and all feedback much appreciated. Thanks, iv'e tons more questions and to have some near live feedback or a Q and A session would be great. |
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There is also the issue of access if you do it without a trust. From my understanding, if you give the combo of your safe that you keep the NFA items in to a person that isn't on the trust ( or if you go the individual route) and they are ever in your house without you there then that can be called possession by default and not that person is in illegal possession of said NFA items even if they never open the safe. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted: There is also the issue of access if you do it without a trust. From my understanding, if you give the combo of your safe that you keep the NFA items in to a person that isn't on the trust ( or if you go the individual route) and they are ever in your house without you there then that can be called possession by default and not that person is in illegal possession of said NFA items even if they never open the safe. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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I don't think inside your own home that is an issue. What would be a problem is say you go to the range with your rifle and you ran off and forgot your suppressor in the safe. You can't call up the wife or someone not on the trust and have them get it out of your safe and bring it to you. But just because my wife knows the combo to the gun safe doesn't mean she is in illegal possession of my NFA items when I'm gone to work. Quoted:
Quoted:
There is also the issue of access if you do it without a trust. From my understanding, if you give the combo of your safe that you keep the NFA items in to a person that isn't on the trust ( or if you go the individual route) and they are ever in your house without you there then that can be called possession by default and not that person is in illegal possession of said NFA items even if they never open the safe. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Honestly, this is exactly how the law is written. Technically, if you arent home and your safe is open and your name is on the form 4, then they are in violation of federal law. It hasnt really been litigated, but the way the NFA branch and ATF interpret the law, they are in violation. I didnt want to be the test case for it, so I went the trust route. Bill |
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Quoted:
While I know the guys here have no problem answering questions, you will also find some good information in the sbr section of the armory. http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/51_.html Quoted:
While I know the guys here have no problem answering questions, you will also find some good information in the sbr section of the armory. http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/51_.html Quoted:
Man this is one of the most confusing topics iv'e had to wrap my head around. So to be more specific about this trust, Is its actual name "trust" or is this a revocable or irrevocable type? Or does it even matter which? What is the main purpose's of having this created in order to get your stamp without going the cleo (pic print) route? Is it even needed for anything more than transferring upon death (which i'm now confused about because someone mentioned the ability to TOD it without a trust) or lending your rifle out to friends or trustees to go plinking, hunting ect babysitter free? Someone mentioned crossing state lines, do you have to have a trust in order to do so (hunting trips for example)? I'm new to all this tax stamp nonsense (started the research last night actually) and am a bit overwhelmed at the lack of answers i have for my questions. Seems all the forums i find are in the "4th semester" stage of all this and iv'e to hit the ground running so to speak not knowing even where to start. Wanting to build an sbr from a pistol base so i can at least have a legal functioning firearm until i get stamped and it seems the trust route is the way to go. Hoping i can get some facts to get me up to speed on all this. Any and all feedback much appreciated. Thanks, iv'e tons more questions and to have some near live feedback or a Q and A session would be great. Thanks, will look into it |