Posted: 8/7/2007 7:21:51 PM EDT
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Okay, so UP Fest is over and I have updated the website with some of the stuff that didn't sell. Now this is my first time taking pictures of glass, and I am doing this without the proper set up so I apologize for that, but I would appreciate feedback on the new page. www.ardentphotography.com/signatureseries.htm example:  |
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This not a comment about you, Hippy. My wife and I went to Cinetopia in Vancouver to see The Simpson's Movie. There are some framed photos for sale there. Many were grainy, full of jpeg artifacts, some also slightly blurry, etc. The prices for these things started at $300, and went as high as $1K. I laughed out loud. I'm not saying I could make a living out of selling any of my photos, but I take, and print better shots than the ones I saw. Hippy, you are a brave person for sharing your art and skill, and trying to sell it. It's kind of a soul baring experience. I hope you are more successful than whoever put those crappy photos up in the theater we I went to. |
The sad truth is they will probably sell more than I will, that seems to be the way of things. I have fought the digital stereotype since I started shooting back in 2000, but the technology has made it so that an 8mp digital camera will take an image on par with a 35mm film. Now I have seen crappy film photographs just as I have seen crappy digital photographs. People will take a black and white picture and pass it off as art just because it is black and white. I think my art speaks for itself (please don't judge the pictures taken of the framed work, they are not very good but I wanted to get something up and I didn't have much time,) but everyone is allowed their opinion. |
And I would have to say "Thank you" again, both for hanging out on Saturday and being my one and only customer. 
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You are very welcome, and I hope that you fall into some better happenstance at your next event. Oh! I didn't get to tell you, but one of the other photography people (Didn't know that when this happened- found out when I walked past his booth and there was Mr. Man-in-a-green-shirt) stopped by and looked at some of the photos you had up, and I pulled the one of the barrel out and asked him if he knew what it was. He said no. It was just like we agreed that hardly anyone would know what it was. I thought it was funny, the things I think are so obvious are a complete mystery to others.  |
Have considered the WAC shows, maybe I will bring some prints to LCR but my stockpile of gun photographs is not that large. But no, there are no pictures of beanie babies.... |
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You should enter some of them in the Puyallup Fair contests. A booth is probably out of your budget, but that's a thought as well. Try getting them placed in stores, restaurants, etc. Just watch out for unscrupulous folks -- my dad lost about $1500 worth of photos (this was in the 80's) when the owner refused to give him the money. At the next LCR you should setup a 'pictures of your gun' booth and add to your gun pic stock. Try a Saturday only table at the WAC show, but don't expect to turn a profit if you bring PCR-00 along with you Did you just do framed photos or did you have mats available with no frames? I see alot of the latter at places like the Fair. It also lowers the price a bit which may attract more people. |
| I had a book of photos that were fab and each page or two had short poem that brought the images home, it was a large book so the pix were easy to look at..... Anyway I can write poetry if you want to collaborate. I think your pictures are magnificent and a book full at $40. and a hard bound book might turn (or MacTURN if you prefer) just MIGHT turn a publisher's head! |
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Puyallup is probably out of my price range, but what contest do you speak of? I have the framed pictures and then lots of packaged photographs ranging in sizes from 4x6 to 11x14. I think it was just the wrong market. 45MAD, I put together a collection of my pictures and poems a while ago but I haven't touched it in years. That whole finding a publisher thing is beyond my knowledge. My first passion in life is writing and I thought it would be perfect to try and combine the two. |
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The Random House Publishing Group 1745 Broadway, 18th Floor New York, NY 10019 How do I submit my manuscript to Random House? Like most big publishers, Random House only accepts manuscripts submitted by an agent--the volume of materials we receive is just too large to accept unsolicited submissions. There is an excellent listing of literary agents in a book called The Writer's Market, which you should be able to find in a local bookstore or library. You can also visit their website at http://www.writersdigest.com for more information. I just went to the first publisher that I thought of and went to FAQ... Go there... ETA: Made this a link. Click me |
This is mathematically impossible. A picture may be worth a thousand words, but unfortunately, 1000 words is not worth a picture. Not sure why it works out that way. I think it has to do with friction....or inflation....something like that. |
1000 words being worth a picture is valid if the reader has any sort of an imagination AND if the writer deserves the title |
this one looks like the deadline is August 14th, so there is still time. |
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I've told you several times that you are very talented. Your work is amazing. That being said... Nobody has really ever heard of Ardent Photography. That in itself hurt your chance of selling anything. Then, add to that the prices you were charging and I think you set yourself up for failure. Do I think that one day you can command and get what you want for your pictures? Absolutely! But now your main goal should be getting your name out there. If that means charging 15% to 20% over your cost for a while, so be it. I will be flat out honest. I came there to buy something. But when I saw your pricing, I was a little sticker shocked. Just my two cents.... |
Well in the past I have had more people tell me that I don't charge enough and I am loosing business because of that...I don't know, pricing is one of the hardest things to do in my opinion and I hate it. |
I can't ever imagine anyone losing business because they didn't charge enough. In fact I've always heard the exact opposite. Decrease your price and increase your volume. 
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Not always true, by any means. By appropriately controlling price, you can effectively choose your clientèle. My experience is in rentals and services, rather than art, but my guess is that it would be equally, or even more important, to have a firm grasp on. ETA; I've never bought art in that price range, or above. But I know some folks who've spent more and got less, IMO. |
Understood. I was trying to get there. Just going the long way I guess. I guess my point was, if you aren't selling anything you can't lose anything by trying a lower price. |
Right on, and I'm no expert on anything. Art is it's own world, where I haven't a clue.  Lower prices are effective to temporarily increase revenue in many businesses, but it bites a lot of them in the ass too. |
The way it was explained to us is as such: Concerning Art and Photography in general. Customers have a "You get what you pay for" mentality. Many prospective customers will turn their nose up at things of an artistic nature sold at a discount. We experienced this BIG time on the photography service end of things. We had our pricing set pretty low, as to attract business. In the end, almost EVERY customer we dealt with were pretty much looking for something for nothing. We would provide good product and they would try and swindle us into giving them even MORE of a discount or extra free services, etc. During a meeting of Tacoma area business people, Sarah discussed this problem with other local business people. Showing examples of the work done and there was no argument that the quality of product was high. The problem was, the quality of customer was low. Now this all sounds pretty elitist and stuck up. But we didn't get into this to dicker with EVERY customer we dealt with over $100. We are still in a bit of a learning process, and adjustments are sure to be made from now until the end of time. Just have to find the right market for the product we have and adjust appropriately. As far as we could tell, the UP fest was not a market for Medium-High end art product. YMMV Edited for clarity. |
It's about perceived value. Cheap is cheap. Pricey means quality. When in reality cheap may mean it's cheap junk, good value for the price, or a steal of a deal and pricey may mean it's worth every penny or it's price it just inflated. If you are starting to shop for a wedding photographer and you see that one is charging $5,000 for 6 hours of wedding photography and a finished album there is the anticipation that their work is going to be good but if another is charging $100 for the same service the expectation of quality has to be very low. These subconscious assumptions may not hold true but it is the nature of the human beast. |
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It does sound elitist, but there's more truth in it than meets the eye. The Tacoma biz folks she spoke with gave her solid advice IMO. For example, the worst possible thing a manager can do in my line of work, is to allow a lower class of people through the door. It's the absolute fastest way to destroy your customer base. In short, the bad ones will run off the good ones in short order. And there you have the bottom line difference between a decent place, and a shithole; The Customer. No different with a rental house, RV park, or a restaurant. Charge enough to get the right customer, and 99% of your headaches disappear. Profit will be more or less the same, save extremes. |
I understand where you are coming from. I'm not talking about taking portraits of people though. I'm talking about selling a picture you took. Something that caught your eye. I don't necessarily define a picture as art. I think of them more as photographs. Art to me would be the portrait of the toilet. That's more than a photo. And yes, it should cost more than a photo. |
There is also you are out of your mind value. |
[flashbacks to tormenting BFA &MFA candidates during their portfolio reviews] where does a picture/photograph end and art start?[/flashbacks to tormenting BFA &MFA candidates during their portfolio reviews]
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Again, it depends on the photograph Phil. |
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The toilet is just something I saw...I didn't set it up or anything. The gun pics are all set up shots, arranged on purpose. Some of them have the same amount of editing to add artistic touches or more See it's a sore spot...I think I am worth nothing so charging money for what I do is very hard. You may think that it is "just a picture" and if that is true I should just save the bandwidth and take down the website because they are all just pictures. The whole point of being in business is to sell something and not loose your shirt doing it. Most people there just looked at the smaller pictures that weren't priced and didn't even leaf through the bigger pictures that had price tags on them. There were very few people who came into the booth all weekend. The ones who were interested I gave a card and maybe business will come from that, who knows, it's all a crap shoot. It's not about name at a show like that, and in the end art shouldn't be about name, it should be about the art. Cookie Lee sells tons of jewelry, but any real jeweler thinks it is mass produced garbage. Supposedly they charge a pretty penny because it's a name. In the end I am not a business person, I am a photographer who needs to sell her photographs in order to buy new lenses to take more pictures. |
 There is a big difference. (meant as a compliment) All the successful business people I've met, (with very slight exceptions), have had very limited passion for their applied trade. They saw it as a means to do business, their real passion. Good luck to you Hippy 
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You are correct. But when you take that picture and mount it on a piece of wood and do other things, it becomes a creative piece of art. You should never think you are worth nothing. You have a gift that not many people have. You are able to see things for what they can be, not just what they are. I never said they were just pictures. What I did say is that they are pictures that you captured. Something caught your eye, you took the shot. That doesn't mean that it will capture someone else's eye. If it does, it has to be priced right. I'm not at all trying to put you or your work down. I'm simply saying that if you really want to sell your work and become successful at it, you have to look at your price point. Especially if you are selling things at a local festival surrounded by other items at festival pricing. |
THAT was our mistake, it was definately the wrong venue for what we (OK, SHE, I was up at ODT's trying not to burn my face of), were trying to sell. For that venue, we should have gone and bought some Rolled up N'Sync posters from Spencer's gifts, put 'em in cheap frames and charged $25 a piece for 'em. |
I actually had two young girls come up to the booth and one of them says "Oh, that is perfessional art, not frames." and walk off. It was the complete wrong venue. I will aim more for the art shows if I do a booth again and/or possibly the WAC. |
Nah, N'Sync is so last week. You needed some Puff Daddy and 50 Cent posters. They would have sold like hotcakes.  |
I think you would be surprised with the results. I know it's hard to put yourself out there in the public eye like that. You have to keep doing it though. That's the only way to learn what works and what does not. All it takes is the right person to see your work... And the rest will be history. |
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I'll bet a lot of people think you're selling prints---so number a few and give them limited editions, "ONLY 50 OF THIS PRINT WILL EVER BE OFFERED". I wouldn't even tell a lot of them that you are the photographer, they probably just wouldn't believe it. Your art is an extension of you and your art is brilliant! |