Posted: 8/23/2010 11:27:36 AM EDT
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Very recently I was at a range with quite a few shooters on the line, I was behind a shooter and an instructor casually observing but not violating their personal space. In anticipation of gong to the line (there really wasn't sufficient space next to those already there) I had my 1911 in hand, slide open, no magazine, with my trigger finger conspicuously away from the trigger, muzzle down: This individual came up to me an insisted that I either go up on the line or holster the pistol, well I could do neither.....he proceeded to tell me that it was a safety issue, they could turn around and see me with a gun and yada, yada, yada. OK, so I walk away from the line altogether because I'm pissed: one for being called for a safety issue that I'd never heard about and secondly by someone that had no authority or introduction.
Walking away was the best thing I could have done. Shortly thereafter he approached me with the "I wasn't try'n to bust your balls...." and how "Safety makes us all better" and still more shit to justify his position without thought to mine, still I listened to without saying a word. I'm not going to spell out my experience or credentials because in the end ANYONE of us can and will make mistakes, anyone make call a "cease fire" at any time for any reasion, however I do not think I was wrong, but in the interest of not commuting a fax pau I decided to post for feedback. After leaving the line I observed this individual for quite a while; he obviously has suffered many a drill and some formal instruction, however all I could think of while watching him was Barney Fife. Shoot two rounds, side step two steps, pull it in, push it out a couple times, shoot two more, side step back, carefully look back over your left shoulder, back to center, and slowly look back over the right, draw up quickly and smartly snap the Glock back into the holster then resume an upright position. |
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I don't know if it's a rule but I've always known that if you aren't on the line your weapon is holstered, cased or racked.
I was at a place once and got lit up a bit for having a second rifle on the bench that was not being fired even though it was cleared. They claimed the rack was the place for a weapon not in use. |
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I don't see any issue with you actions. Was this a public or private range? A lot of times you have big fish in a small pond type guys. Because they were the "gun guy" in their circle of friends or acquaintances they assume are the oracle of gun knowledge and safety. I never understood the point behind all these crazy range rules other than assuming that we become stupid as soon as we walk on the range. Why can't we just ALWAYS observe the four cardinal rules of firearms safety whenever we handle firearms? In the long run following these simple four rules makes us safer both on and off the range. |
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I don't know if it's a rule but I've always known that if you aren't on the line your weapon is holstered, cased or racked. I was at a place once and got lit up a bit for having a second rifle on the bench that was not being fired even though it was cleared. They claimed the rack was the place for a weapon not in use. I had a guy tell me the same thing once at a club that I used to belong to and politely explained that I dont leave my firearms behind me, unattended in a rack 10 yards away. He got the point and went on his way. |
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Personally, If I'm at a range and don't "know" the people behind me............I would not feel comfortable with them handling firearms.
I don't mean just holding them to case/uncase, I'm talking fondling,, that's what "SAFE AREAS" are for. Now just standing there with an unloaded, slide locked back 1911, as long as it's pointed in a safe direction........me not a problem. Maybe a chamber flag would be better than slide locked back? There are Range Nazi's everywhere. 
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I don't know if it's a rule but I've always known that if you aren't on the line your weapon is holstered, cased or racked. I was at a place once and got lit up a bit for having a second rifle on the bench that was not being fired even though it was cleared. They claimed the rack was the place for a weapon not in use. This was at a Private Club, I was a guest at. There weren't any racks or other places to leave a firearm other than a spot on the ground or back in your vehicle. The Shooter & Instructor were know to me and we've shot together before. Must be it depends on where you're at.....as before I hadn't heard of such a "rule" but that doesn't mean it doesn't exsist. 
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I don't know if it's a rule but I've always known that if you aren't on the line your weapon is holstered, cased or racked. I was at a place once and got lit up a bit for having a second rifle on the bench that was not being fired even though it was cleared. They claimed the rack was the place for a weapon not in use. I had a guy tell me the same thing once at a club that I used to belong to and politely explained that I dont leave my firearms behind me, unattended in a rack 10 yards away. He got the point and went on his way. Guess I should have added that was my response pretty much. I think people can see this 2 ways and it could debated a bit. I don;t know of any specific rule, I mostly shoot at a private club that is rarely attended by anyone.or the Swamps. However, it makes me uncomfortable when there are guns being handled behind me, I don't care who it is doing it. |
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Did you get a list of club rules? It could be an actual rule. I know one of the clubs in Rochester that spells out the rules very clearly. And they are very clear on how one can bring a handgun to the firing line.
For example, actual rules: All handguns must be carried to and from the range in a case or properly worn holster. A properly worn holster must maintain the barrel in a vertical position (up or down) at ALL TIMES. Removing guns from the case or holster may only be done at the firing line. When on the firing line all guns must point down range at all times – never toward the ceiling – never left or right. Not saying anyone posting earlier was in the wrong just saying that some ranges have very specific rules. |
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Very recently I was at a range with quite a few shooters on the line, I was behind a shooter and an instructor casually observing but not violating their personal space. In anticipation of gong to the line (there really wasn't sufficient space next to those already there) I had my 1911 in hand, slide open, no magazine, with my trigger finger conspicuously away from the trigger, muzzle down: This individual came up to me an insisted that I either go up on the line or holster the pistol, well I could do neither.....he proceeded to tell me that it was a safety issue, they could turn around and see me with a gun and yada, yada, yada. OK, so I walk away from the line altogether because I'm pissed: one for being called for a safety issue that I'd never heard about and secondly by someone that had no authority or introduction. After leaving the line I observed this individual for quite a while; he obviously has suffered many a drill and some formal instruction, however all I could think of while watching him was Barney Fife. Shoot two rounds, side step two steps, pull it in, push it out a couple times, shoot two more, side step back, carefully look back over your left shoulder, back to center, and slowly look back over the right, draw up quickly and smartly snap the Glock back into the holster then resume an upright position. I don't see where his request was out of line. No one should be behind the firing line with a weapon out, period. You start going soft on a basic rule like that and next thing you'll have jokers doing all sorts of unsafe stuff behind the line. Nor do I see the described course of fire as deserving the Barney Fife comment. |
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If I am going to shoot a pistol that I am carrying to the range. Then I would keep it holstered until I am ready to fire.If its an alternate pistol I am not carrying then I would usually have it in some type of small case or range bag and remove it and load only when I am ready to shoot.
Just the way I feel comfortable with. The only time I have had my pistol out racked backed and holding it not on the line if it was at the knowledge of and getting assistance form the range officer (this is when I 1st started shooting, now I know everything  ) .
However I have had other experiences as equally aggravating. Ray |
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Right after I received my CMP M1 Carbine I had it out at a local range. After shooting for accuracy, I decided to have a little fun. To be clear, this was not rapid fire, it was more like one shot every second. Still aimed fire, just a little less time between shots. A fellow shooting skeet came over and told me range rules required a full second between shots, I was shooting much too fast, and if I wanted to do combat drills, go to the combat range.
As I said, I wasn't shooting that fast and after he left I looked through my copy of the club rules and couldn't find anything about shots per second or anything similar. Apparently it was an unwritten super secret rule, because I asked one of the board members later and he had no idea what I was talking about. David |
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Very recently I was at a range with quite a few shooters on the line, I was behind a shooter and an instructor casually observing but not violating their personal space. In anticipation of gong to the line (there really wasn't sufficient space next to those already there) I had my 1911 in hand, slide open, no magazine, with my trigger finger conspicuously away from the trigger, muzzle down: This individual came up to me an insisted that I either go up on the line or holster the pistol, well I could do neither.....he proceeded to tell me that it was a safety issue, they could turn around and see me with a gun and yada, yada, yada. OK, so I walk away from the line altogether because I'm pissed: one for being called for a safety issue that I'd never heard about and secondly by someone that had no authority or introduction. Walking away was the best thing I could have done. Shortly thereafter he approached me with the "I wasn't try'n to bust your balls...." and how "Safety makes us all better" and still more shit to justify his position without thought to mine, still I listened to without saying a word. I'm not going to spell out my experience or credentials because in the end ANYONE of us can and will make mistakes, anyone make call a "cease fire" at any time for any reasion, however I do not think I was wrong, but in the interest of not commuting a fax pau I decided to post for feedback. After leaving the line I observed this individual for quite a while; he obviously has suffered many a drill and some formal instruction, however all I could think of while watching him was Barney Fife. Shoot two rounds, side step two steps, pull it in, push it out a couple times, shoot two more, side step back, carefully look back over your left shoulder, back to center, and slowly look back over the right, draw up quickly and smartly snap the Glock back into the holster then resume an upright position. I saw him too. Im not sure what kind of yo-yo drill he was perfecting but it was pretty funny to watch 
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Nor do I see the described course of fire as deserving the Barney Fife comment. The "Barney Fife" comment wasn't the drill, it was the nervous and jerky way he was dancing around on the firing line, actually he was in the grass just ahead of benches and between the benches. That and his physical appearance really reminded me of him.
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We run a hot range when I shoot, but I only shoot with those I know. I avoid the problem outside of departmental training sessions by having my own range with only invited guests. This. I enjoy shooting, and to continue to do so these days, you almost have to have a private place to do it, and I don't mean a membership at a private club. If you don't want to be subject to somone else's rules, then fire on your own range and make your own rules. Less prying eyes on your hardware, rate of fire, etc. Understand it's not a realisitic goal for everyone to have their own private range, but it is a method for not having to deal with the usual "range nazi" BS. Just my .02. As an aside on the issue of cleared weapons behind the firing line, some of the conducts of fire we run at work are far more complex than what you'll see at most "club" ranges, and we don't all leave our weapons in the rack or on the truck when not on the firing line. We don't "rod on and off the range" anymore either (thank god), we execute proper clearing proceedures and then return to the ready area. Some of these ranges have 40+ firing points or elements going on at once, and just because the firers are all wearing ACUs doesn't mean they are proficient weapon handlers. Hell, some of them get confused at what end the dangerous one is.
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| I would have to say if you are not shooting then pistol should be in holster or in bag, this follows USPSA and IDPA rules, one can never be too safe. You know its empty, but looking down the line another person can't tell if you still have a loaded magazine in the gun. |
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On a range there are generally two kinds of rules:
Firearms Safety Rules Range Rules Range Rules will vary from range to range and can be confusing. These rules apply to such things as; left and right range limits firing times (dawn to dusk) calibers allowed target types allowed eye & ear protection requirements firing rates casing of firearms etc. There need only be four Firearm Safety Rules: Rule #1: All guns are always loaded. Rule #2: Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not prepared to destroy. Rule #3: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target. Rule #4: Be sure of your target. Some clubs take the whole subject of “Range Rules” to an extreme. This is often a result of the following combination; ignorance, paranoia and intolerance. Commonly when a club is run by the shotgun guys they are distrustful of those rifle and pistol guys so they contrive range rules to “rein in” those other guys. In other cases a club will become so risk averse that they create range rules to avoid “problems” with neighbors or to avoid imaginary liability concerns. Problems often occur when club members in positions of authority or those who imagine themselves to be authorities blend Range Rules and Firearm Safety rules into one amalgamation. They are not the same thing but most folks don’t understand the difference. Just one story; While attending a rifle match at one of the clubs I belong to I was behind the firing line waiting for my firing order to come up. One of the shooters on the line got up from the prone and began walking down range with the other shooters to retrieve targets. A club member, I’ll call him Gus, spotted a holstered pistol on the shooter’s belt and said in a loud voice, “Is that pistol loaded?” I said, “I sure hope so.” Gus said, “That’s not safe and isn’t allowed here!” I reminded Gus that a holstered pistol is perfectly safe and that we weren’t running a pistol match here today and that the shooter in question was simply packing like we all do. I reminded Gus that there were no Range Rules prohibiting safe carry on the range. Gus pulled back his jacket and showed me his concealed pistol that was unloaded and said, “I never carry a loaded pistol around!” I said, “That’s pretty stupid.” That’s when things between Gus and I deteriorated. As he turned and walked away in a huff Gus blurted out, “NO! That’s not stupid it’s SAFE!” Gus is an example of a club member who thinks he knows about firearms safety when in reality he has no idea. |
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Nor do I see the described course of fire as deserving the Barney Fife comment. The "Barney Fife" comment wasn't the drill, it was the nervous and jerky way he was dancing around on the firing line, actually he was in the grass just ahead of benches and between the benches. That and his physical appearance really reminded me of him.
I was stand up shooting on the .22lr range with my new TOZ-99 on the end of the line at that time and I saw him out of the corner of my eye and I was wondering what was going on.... |
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Downstate I've seen rules posted with big signs; NO HANDLING FIREARMS BEHIND THE FIRING LINE
of course you'd have to handle it at some point. Upstate things are much looser. fortunately the guys i'm around are pretty damn safe anyhow, especially with certain range setup limitations. certain disciplines have handling rules and I've seen/heard of severe enforcement; IPSC, high power, etc. - ie a DQ. |
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Very recently I was at a range with quite a few shooters on the line, I was behind a shooter and an instructor casually observing but not violating their personal space. In anticipation of gong to the line (there really wasn't sufficient space next to those already there) I had my 1911 in hand, slide open, no magazine, with my trigger finger conspicuously away from the trigger, muzzle down: This individual came up to me an insisted that I either go up on the line or holster the pistol, well I could do neither.....he proceeded to tell me that it was a safety issue, they could turn around and see me with a gun and yada, yada, yada. OK, so I walk away from the line altogether because I'm pissed: one for being called for a safety issue that I'd never heard about and secondly by someone that had no authority or introduction. After leaving the line I observed this individual for quite a while; he obviously has suffered many a drill and some formal instruction, however all I could think of while watching him was Barney Fife. Shoot two rounds, side step two steps, pull it in, push it out a couple times, shoot two more, side step back, carefully look back over your left shoulder, back to center, and slowly look back over the right, draw up quickly and smartly snap the Glock back into the holster then resume an upright position. I don't see where his request was out of line. No one should be behind the firing line with a weapon out, period. You start going soft on a basic rule like that and next thing you'll have jokers doing all sorts of unsafe stuff behind the line. Nor do I see the described course of fire as deserving the Barney Fife comment. If I cant trust a guy standing a few paces behind me on a hot range with a weapon that is unloaded with the slide locked back then I certainly wouldnt have any reason to trust them a few paces forward on the line with a loaded one. |
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Quoted: I don't see where his request was out of line. No one should be behind the firing line with a weapon out, period. You start going soft on a basic rule like that and next thing you'll have jokers doing all sorts of unsafe stuff behind the line. +1 billion. I have personally witnessed unsafe incidents at firearms training sessions, at ranges and on the street by experienced personnel who should have known better. Fortunately no one was ever injured. |
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OK, I'll bite off on that. Now for the 'but': I was trying to get up on the line, but there just wasn't sufficient room. At some point you've got to have the gun in your hand(s) to at least carry it up there, and personally I feel it's safer to have an un-loaded, action open pistol in your hands then drawing a loaded one out of a holster especially in as close proximity as we were. This wasn't a "match" or competition, there were ~40 active shooters on the line, I approached with intent of securing a position, but decided it would be too close to the others (nobody like getting pelted with hot brass) I was observing, but not intruding into a hands-on lesson being offered by an experienced trainer... I suppose I could have tucked it into my shorts or something else, but I didn't see the issue. Apparently there is, which is why I asked; the consensus is about 50/50 and after hearing from folks that have shot/trained with me, they wouldn't have issue, however someone who's been drilled & grilled in a certain methodology of range training and operation they might. I did piss me off that out of all these people going hell for broke that he opened up his mouth to me, totally stunning me with what my ego said was a safe carry, this really bitch-slapped my pride. How many of us have had some Range Nazi tell us we were doing something wrong/unsafe/in violation of xxxix? How did that make you feel? At least I kept my mouth shut (THAT was fucking hard to do) and put my pistol back in the Jeep. Was I wrong? in some circles yes, where we were at; that's subjective, which is why I asked the question and gratefully accept the answers.  It's so much easier working with kids. 
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If I cant trust a guy standing a few paces behind me on a hot range with a weapon that is unloaded with the slide locked back then I certainly wouldnt have any reason to trust them a few paces forward on the line with a loaded one. If he is ON the firing line, then he isn't behind you. He might very well have an unloaded weapon...or he may not. You telling me that you'll be perfectly OK with the sounds of slides being manipulated, etc behind you while you are on the line, with no idea of what the strange gun owners are doing? |
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On a range there are generally two kinds of rules: Firearms Safety Rules Range Rules Range Rules will vary from range to range and can be confusing. These rules apply to such things as; left and right range limits firing times (dawn to dusk) calibers allowed target types allowed eye & ear protection requirements firing rates casing of firearms etc. There need only be four Firearm Safety Rules: Rule #1: All guns are always loaded. Rule #2: Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not prepared to destroy. Rule #3: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target. Rule #4: Be sure of your target. Some clubs take the whole subject of “Range Rules” to an extreme. This is often a result of the following combination; ignorance, paranoia and intolerance. Commonly when a club is run by the shotgun guys they are distrustful of those rifle and pistol guys so they contrive range rules to “rein in” those other guys. In other cases a club will become so risk averse that they create range rules to avoid “problems” with neighbors or to avoid imaginary liability concerns. Problems often occur when club members in positions of authority or those who imagine themselves to be authorities blend Range Rules and Firearm Safety rules into one amalgamation. They are not the same thing but most folks don’t understand the difference. Just one story; While attending a rifle match at one of the clubs I belong to I was behind the firing line waiting for my firing order to come up. One of the shooters on the line got up from the prone and began walking down range with the other shooters to retrieve targets. A club member, I’ll call him Gus, spotted a holstered pistol on the shooter’s belt and said in a loud voice, “Is that pistol loaded?” I said, “I sure hope so.” Gus said, “That’s not safe and isn’t allowed here!” I reminded Gus that a holstered pistol is perfectly safe and that we weren’t running a pistol match here today and that the shooter in question was simply packing like we all do. I reminded Gus that there were no Range Rules prohibiting safe carry on the range. Gus pulled back his jacket and showed me his concealed pistol that was unloaded and said, “I never carry a loaded pistol around!” I said, “That’s pretty stupid.” That’s when things between Gus and I deteriorated. As he turned and walked away in a huff Gus blurted out, “NO! That’s not stupid it’s SAFE!” Gus is an example of a club member who thinks he knows about firearms safety when in reality he has no idea. This... The "safety flag" is very often something else. If you follow the four rules of firearms handling it will cover all conceivable eventualities. Enforcement needs to be based upon the four rules for firearms handling and any applicable published range rules. That's it - nothing more. Remember everyone's comfort zone is different in any endeavor. This does not mean that everyone operating outside your comfort zone is doing something "unsafe" as long as the aforementioned rules are followed. |
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If I cant trust a guy standing a few paces behind me on a hot range with a weapon that is unloaded with the slide locked back then I certainly wouldnt have any reason to trust them a few paces forward on the line with a loaded one. If he is ON the firing line, then he isn't behind you. He might very well have an unloaded weapon...or he may not. You telling me that you'll be perfectly OK with the sounds of slides being manipulated, etc behind you while you are on the line, with no idea of what the strange gun owners are doing? I think fp1201 was clear on his description of the incident. At no point did he manipulate the slide while he was "behind the line", insert a magazine into his gun or do anything that could or would be construed as "unsafe" by those with a modicum understanding of firearms safety. While it might have drawn the ire of those at the range more concerned with everybody else in the hopes of demonstrating their knowledge of safety rules to those they feel are less informed than they are, it wouldnt have to those of us who are worried about ourselves and what we were doing on the line. Ive spent plenty of time shooting with fp1201 so it wouldnt have concerned me one bit but the gentleman who he was referring to had never shot with any of us (as far as i know) so he did say something. At the end of the day, fp1201 handled it correctly and everybody walked away just fine; no big deal. Most of us in attendance at the event have spent time at the range doing drills or attending classes where there isnt necessarillly a static firing line so I guess the incident can be chalked up to a different understanding and application of "the rules". Some folks who have never ventured off the bench or participated in shooting activities which involve movement or shooting in close proximity to others would probably view that type of shooting as "unsafe". |
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I think fp1201 was clear on his description of the incident. At no point did he manipulate the slide while he was "behind the line", insert a magazine into his gun or do anything that could or would be construed as "unsafe" by those with a modicum understanding of firearms safety. While it might have drawn the ire of those at the range more concerned with everybody else in the hopes of demonstrating their knowledge of safety rules to those they feel are less informed than they are, it wouldnt have to those of us who are worried about ourselves and what we were doing on the line. I was speaking in generalities about people on and behind firing lines, not just the OPs incident. Once again, if you start forgiving one lax activity, soon people ARE doing the things I mentioned, if not worse. |
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I think fp1201 was clear on his description of the incident. At no point did he manipulate the slide while he was "behind the line", insert a magazine into his gun or do anything that could or would be construed as "unsafe" by those with a modicum understanding of firearms safety. While it might have drawn the ire of those at the range more concerned with everybody else in the hopes of demonstrating their knowledge of safety rules to those they feel are less informed than they are, it wouldn't have to those of us who are worried about ourselves and what we were doing on the line. I was speaking in generalities about people on and behind firing lines, not just the OPs incident. Once again, if you start forgiving one lax activity, soon people ARE doing the things I mentioned, if not worse. You're right, but let's not get off track: In the OP I wanted to know if I had made a mistake; if there was a common courtesy or un-written rule about having your handgun holstered while behind the firing line. Other than the basic four rules, what additional rules are there? written? un-written? Would it be safer or still unsafe doing the same thing twenty feet back? how about on the tail-gate of the truck where other things are likely to be going on? lots of ranges have parking very close to the firing line. How about my .445 SuperMag with the 10" barrel? I've no holster for that, it travels in a large hard-case. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, or trying to defend what I did, please don't turn this into a pissing match becasue we'll all end up pissed and the thread locked. |
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Well I only alluded to this in my previous post; a lot of our comfort on the line is subjective.
I'd be more lax if you will with guys I know well and trust with a firearm, With a bunch of strangers you're more apt towards stricter rules for safety. Look at the military and their PT belts and all the BS on the ranges. You go through all that because 1% of the people are stupid or have a stupid moment. It's called working down to the lowest common denominator. A sad fact of life. FP1201 I'd trust with a LOADED gun behind me, let alone, empty w/ slide back. And then there are a handful of coworkers on the range where I make sure I'm at the far end of the line away from them because I've seen them in action. As far as commonly accepted unwritten rules........that's a load of crap unless you're talking about the fundamentals of firearms handling. Edited to clarify. Rules shouldn't be assumed and should be posted. |
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It is generally accepted that on an active range, there is no gun handling of firearms away from the firing line, or when a cease fire is called. If you look at how Sig Sauer Academy, S&W Academy or Glock Inc runs their ranges, this is standard practice. In addition both the NRA "civilian" world (RSO/CRSO) of training and the NRA Law Enforcement Division subscribes to this mindset for gun handling on the range. A few police depts (local/city) also do this. Maybe we could have someone from the state police contribute on how range operations are run there? Ditto for a bunch of federal law enforcement agencies (or so I hear). Unless I'd be losing it, Chris Fry has this requirement in his handgun training courses as well. I trust a lot of folks with guns. Unfortunately, poor muzzle/trigger discipline is often rapidly contagious. These rules are designed to protect all of us from the lowest common denominator. How many times have we (you) read of police firearms instructors shooting other folks unintentionally? It happens because even the best of us are prone to making errors. Most folks who have had any level of formal training understand this is standard range protocol. Guns are brought to the firing line cased, or holstered. Handling of guns off the line - even if simply in hand with magazine removed, action open, finger off trigger; is rarely perceived to be "ok". More than "a few" folks have been shot/injured by other folks known to be proficient firearms handlers. So, it's not an "unwritten" range rule, it's a well known (almost universal) range rule. It's a generally accepted standard taught at range master schools, used by most LE agencies on their ranges and firearms manufacturers who run a training academy or shooting range, and in the NRA Range Safety Officer/ Chief Range Safety Officer courses. /ml |
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I'm not trying to be argumentative here, or trying to defend what I did, please don't turn this into a pissing match becasue we'll all end up pissed and the thread locked. If you are mistaking anyones posts for being argumentative, then you misunderstand the spirit of the conversation. |
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I think fp1201 was clear on his description of the incident. At no point did he manipulate the slide while he was "behind the line", insert a magazine into his gun or do anything that could or would be construed as "unsafe" by those with a modicum understanding of firearms safety. While it might have drawn the ire of those at the range more concerned with everybody else in the hopes of demonstrating their knowledge of safety rules to those they feel are less informed than they are, it wouldn't have to those of us who are worried about ourselves and what we were doing on the line. I was speaking in generalities about people on and behind firing lines, not just the OPs incident. Once again, if you start forgiving one lax activity, soon people ARE doing the things I mentioned, if not worse. You're right, but let's not get off track: In the OP I wanted to know if I had made a mistake; if there was a common courtesy or un-written rule about having your handgun holstered while behind the firing line. Other than the basic four rules, what additional rules are there? written? un-written? Would it be safer or still unsafe doing the same thing twenty feet back? how about on the tail-gate of the truck where other things are likely to be going on? lots of ranges have parking very close to the firing line. How about my .445 SuperMag with the 10" barrel? I've no holster for that, it travels in a large hard-case. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, or trying to defend what I did, please don't turn this into a pissing match becasue we'll all end up pissed and the thread locked. Lock it down. People have made their input and some have taken offense, some have to argue about every little twist and the topic has fallen off track. The answer is :You shouldn't be handling a weapon behind a shooter on line. Private clubs and shooting with people you completely trust can have flexibility but at a public range, organized shoot you are going to get hammered for doing that. |
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Quoted: It is generally accepted that on an active range, there is no gun handling of firearms away from the firing line, or when a cease fire is called. If you look at how Sig Sauer Academy, S&W Academy or Glock Inc runs their ranges, this is standard practice. In addition both the NRA "civilian" world (RSO/CRSO) of training and the NRA Law Enforcement Division subscribes to this mindset for gun handling on the range. A few police depts (local/city) also do this. Maybe we could have someone from the state police contribute on how range operations are run there? Ditto for a bunch of federal law enforcement agencies (or so I hear). Unless I'd be losing it, Chris Fry has this requirement in his handgun training courses as well. I trust a lot of folks with guns. Unfortunately, poor muzzle/trigger discipline is often rapidly contagious. These rules are designed to protect all of us from the lowest common denominator. How many times have we (you) read of police firearms instructors shooting other folks unintentionally? It happens because even the best of us are prone to making errors. Most folks who have had any level of formal training understand this is standard range protocol. Guns are brought to the firing line cased, or holstered. Handling of guns off the line - even if simply in hand with magazine removed, action open, finger off trigger; is rarely perceived to be "ok". More than "a few" folks have been shot/injured by other folks known to be proficient firearms handlers. So, it's not an "unwritten" range rule, it's a well known (almost universal) range rule. It's a generally accepted standard taught at range master schools, used by most LE agencies on their ranges and firearms manufacturers who run a training academy or shooting range, and in the NRA Range Safety Officer/ Chief Range Safety Officer courses. /ml /thread end. There really is nothing more that can be said on the subject. Quoted: Private clubs and shooting with people you completely trust can have flexibility but at a public range, organized shoot you are going to get hammered for doing that. "Private" clubs/ranges are "public" ranges although they usually require a range safety orientation and written acknowledgment of the range rules. While it's true that you're less likely to have inexperienced shooter's at private clubs this isn't always the case when guests of the member are using the range. Unfortunately even very experienced shooter's become complacent at times and sometimes bend or ignore basic rules of gun safety. I personally know of three ND's (two resulted in personal injury) by experienced shooter's who should have known better. |