Posted: 12/27/2003 6:26:21 AM EDT
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Hi all. Hope you all had a good Christmas. The object of this thread is to find out if there is enough interested parties to proceed with further exploration. Question -- Who all would be interested in a Va. ARFCOM Member owned/leased range? Remember, this is to be just a show of hands in favor of further exploration, that is all. There was some discussion and ideas in my Roll Call thread and it was decided to begin another thread (which I was hoping someone else would do). BTW, 183 Members. Danny |
| I'd certainly be interested, but I'll be shocked if you can pull this off. Beyond the issue of the cost of land, you've got a number of issues like liability insurance and who knows what legal expenses. I'm not trying to thrwo a wet blanket here. If you have the ability to do it, I'll gladly contribute, but I have my doubts. |
I'm game...We need to find out if we have a lawyer in our midst to do a reality check as step 1 if a sizable number of folks are interested. I believe we'll need to lease some land and try before we buy...IMHO |
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I would be for sure, tired of driving to Blackstone to shoot on the inlaws farm. Steve-in-VA Arfcom staff is an Attorney in Va Beach, VA. I am a RSO and can assist in the land development, also would love to see the first civilian AR and fal rifle range in the USA. Or is the one lurking I have no clue about? Edit add on, looked around on arfcom, somewhere in all this we have over 200 members. 200 members x 200.00 a piece = 40,000 dollars for a land purchase and such to start. I would gladly pay this per year since I use more than that in fuel driving to shoots per year down state. Just my thoughts.. |
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I'll keep my eyes on this thread to see if the idea gets legs. My suggestion this early in development would be that 3 people need to be located. 1 - someone to lead the initiative 2 - an attorney who is familiar with partnerships w/regard to real estate leases and purchases. 3 - a real estate Consultant who is familiar with available land and usage. That and I'd suggest that more brainstorming could produce a viable alternative. For ex. - Maybe there already is a range located in a central location that would give a group discount. Would short term leasing allow for the location to change periodically to accommodate those in another area of the state? (VA is actually a big state imho) Should we make Hite Hollow our official range and approach the park service to see if we could "adopt" it in the same way as that "adopt a road" program? etc... - LS |
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Since no thread can live long without discussion... The land we seek should be mostly flat with a portion of the side of a mountain to make a natural and immovable backstop for the range. Land should preferrably not contain a standing or flowing water source -- EPA/Chesepeake Watershed concerns. Insurance will be a bugger..... If anyone is a member of the NVGC they have a lease of land for a range and hunting facility. However, they did most of their leg work in the mid-late 60's....a different time. Hite Hollow is nice, but it has three negatives for me: 1. Upwardly sloped range. 2. 153yd max safe shooting distance. 3. 3 hours away -- 1 way. 6 hour drive for 3 hours of shooting.  Anyway..... |
| I'd throw my name in the had for this, but sadly I'm moving away from VA in March...about 7000 miles away to the glorious Republic of Korea. But hey, might be back in a year, so you never know. If I did move back I'd be interested in something like this though. |
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Insurance If we could be NRA certified with the range, insurance for 500,000 per year cost would be around 830 dollars per year. Checked on that already  Location Location is the predominant issue. As most of us know the metro area is possible, but the cost would be high and the taxes would as well. Zoning is an issue, watershed, etc. Firearms friendly As we all know, the metro areas are never weapons friendly, if feasible it would need to be rural yet accessible other than by pack mules. Range size Most ranges are 200 yards or less, which is nice for some. If we could have the room for it to 600 yards and be NRA certified, we could make some money by hosting service match rifle competitions. This would assist us in paying for future development or upkeep and the taxes. This is just my 2 cents worth and by no means am I claiming to be an expert, I would truly want to see this thru as reality. Everyone so far has had excellent input. |
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You guys are on the Ball! toojon emailed me with a link that I'd like to post, thanks toojon. www.rangeinfo.org/ Later Guys, got to run to town. Danny |
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Project manager is a must have, also the link to range info was an excellent post. I do not have the time for a full scale assault on this, but will glean my resources to marshal what I can find. If we can find others on arfcom and other forums, we need to find out how many are truly out there besides just us AR owners and fal enthusiast. One thing I can promise is to lend a hand at any project to ensure thus gets off the ground; we need it and desire it so teamwork is essential in this project. |
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Ok, there are 9 Districts in the State of Virginia. They are: Bristol Culpeper Fredericksburg Hampton Roads Lynchburg Northern Va. Richmond Salem Staunton Please consider a representative be named from members from each District in the State. If no Volunteers, one shall be named by the members of that District. I don't know how we can get a leader at this point. My guess is that they would be retired, have some background in management and be in close proximity to the range itself. What say ye thus far? I would also propose that our brothers in arms from West Virginia be included in our efforts. Danny |
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Things personally I would like to see in our Range: Enough land for 1000 yard range in addition to a 600, 300, 100 and less ranges for rifle. Pistol range Sporting Clays if enough interest Camping sites for those who have to travel. A club house, can be used for swap meets etc. And, here goes the Big One... A place to have a East Coast (or Bigger) ARFCOM event. Also, in times that there is nothing Big going on we could open to the Public (Supervised and accepting donations aka get new members, pay our bills). And use for training (LE) or whatever that would promote a positive image of responsible Gun Owners. Danny |
My idea may/is/could be flawed. If you accept donations are you a business? I'm more or less a Facilitator, trying to get ideas and opinions so we can get to what works. W-W, you might be a good rep. Danny |
Too many brighter then me folks up here in NoVA. I'll be the club pundit. |
That is what I was thinking too. Not much over 2 hours drive from the area of the most members. We have to talk and think this out. Danny |
So long as it has something 300yds or over, that would be great for me. The NVGC, of which I am now a member is 200yds. I just got in to Quantico Shooting club for 2004, and they have 300, but only open as RSO's permit. Both of those facilities are 1.5 hours away... |
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Agreed. We have a 200 yard range down in Pungo so I would love something longer (even though I can hit @$%# at that range). I'm just trying to think of a place that is central and not too far from the interstate and C-ville is all I can think of for now. Any other areas? There seems to be a lot of nothing between C-ville and Richmond, like around Oilville, right? |
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Just some thoughts off the top of my head: With the assistance of one of our legal beagles, how about we form a LLC. Everyone who puts money into this project would become a shareholder. I'm in Roanoke. My main interest is in long range (1000 yd) shooting. I have to drive about an hour to shoot 100 yds anyway so I'd be willing to drive about twice (2-1/2 hrs) that to shoot long range. So for me somewhere just south of Richmond would be good. Charlottesville would be good as well. I think the more you come my way (towards SW VA), the less expensive and more available the land will be. Land in my area can still be had for $1000 per acre or less and steadily increases as you move East. I'm a building contractor so I'll assist in that capacity in any way I can. I'll donate any materials I have availabe to the cause as well. Again, I'm just thinking out loud here. I think we should get as many opinions on this as we can. So anyone who has ideas, let's hear 'em. |
Even though Culpeper is fine w/me I think we really need to consider the VA folks 1st. If the other folks choose to join great-if they choose not to drive down here thats fine too. Also Culpeper is as flat as a pancake and I'd like to suggest a mountain as a backstop, considering my eyes! |
Central Va. is looking better all the time for all of us. Reminder, we still need reps for each District and a Controller. Should we start another thread for those who can contribute more than money? Cougar8045 is a builder, licensed I'm sure and that is a Big plus. I have a 8000 watt generator/welder with torches and am a AWS certified welder... can do gates, targets, power carpenters tools etc. What do you all think? Danny |
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Culpeper isn't as flat as you think. Its Piedmont area with plenty of hills. I remain skeptical, but I do have an idea. I lease the hunting rights to a farm in Rappahannock county. The farm itself wouldn't be an option because there are way too many houses surrounding the property, but I'll talk to the farmer. He may know of land or may even have access to land for this. I'll also tell you property is EXPENSIVE out that way. He recently sold a parcel for $10K per acre (at least I'm pretty sure that's what he said). |
W-W, don't sell yourself short. I'm sure you can do more than you think you can. Someone has to do the leg work. Put us all in a bag... give a good shake and you will get the most highly motivated, willing, able force to be reckoned with. Guaranteed. I have no doubt. Danny |
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It would be nice to see something like this happen but I think this is going to be harder then you think. This very topic was discussed a couple of years ago on the site and IIRC it was deemed as unfeasable by the group. I can tell you from my personal experience dealing with the two local clubs I belong to. The first place is located in Nottoway County. This place only has one skeet field and a 150yd rifle range. They keep the number limited to 50 people, to help keep the cost of insurance down. The fee is only $25 a year for each member. The other club, some of you have seen during the BRD. This club has much nicer facilities, and the cost is only a little bit higher per year. It is $75 the first year and $50 every year after that. The only reason it stays this cheap is because of the hard work the volunteers put in. There is small group of people(probably around 20) who do most of the work around the club. This covers everything from maintaning the grounds, to running the events that go on throughout the year. Everyone that does volunteer lives within 20 miles of the range. This makes things much easier in terms of getting things done. Distance may present a problem for most of our members doing work except on a limited basis. This would unfairly burden a few members with most of the upkeep of the property. I will try to find out from some of the board members what insurance costs for a large club. I will say that the club needs to keep two separate carriers to cover the property and shooting events. I don't wish to put a damper on this idea, but there is going to be a lot of work needed to make something like this succeed. |
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My 2 cents. Start small and grow from there. In this topic, I already see thoughs of club houses, skeet ranges, planning NRA sanctioned matches, etc. That imho is way overkill right now. What us VA people need right now is just land where we can setup and shoot away. 600 yards would be great, anything longer and I see the price going extremely high. 1000 yards is a loooong way. Like VA-gunnut said, this topic was brought up last year and while there was a lot of interest, it didn't go anywhere. No leader to follow through and see if this was a possibility. |
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I'm definately interested, and I'd might be willing to let you AR guys shoot with me and my AK. I'd like to see something where we could shoot long ranges, 600 to 1000 yards. As for set-ups, what about looking into 501-C3 (I think that's what it is called), basically a non-profit club type of deal. |