Posted: 12/12/2006 5:23:30 PM EDT
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Okay, guys, just want your opinion. I work in Duluth and ran over to Discover Mills to get some Teriyaki chicken from the Japanese shop in the food court. I was wearing one of my US Navy t-shirts. Yeah, it was a tiny bit chilly, but that's not important. As I was leaving, some guy in his '40s or so came up and asked if I had a son in the Navy. I said no. He asked if I had a daughter in the Navy. I said no. A grandkid?........no. Finally, I asked him what he was getting at. He said he was wondering why I was wearing a US Navy t-shirt. I said it might have something to do with four years of my life long ago. He said he was a Marine (which, after the fact, I don't believe because I have never seen a Marine act like that towards a veteran, period) and that he knew they did not have people as fat as me in the Navy. I asked him if he realized that things change in 30 plus years. He said it didn't matter, that there was no way the Navy would have ever had me. I finally said that he had said enough and turned to walk off. He started yelling a bunch of crap and started following me. I turned my upper body around enough to see him, pointed my finger at him and very forcefully said "Enough!" and continued walking. I guess he decided that he had pushed things as far as he should, I don't know. I guess he thought he could pick on my old fat ass. I guess what I am wondering is that if I had continued walking away and he charged me, would I have been justified in shooting him? He was about 6'3", probably 210 or so and was a pretty imposing figure. I guess I could have held my own for a while against him, but after my heart attack and all the drugs they have me on, my energy level is not what it was not so long ago. I don't know what his deal was and if he was drunk or maybe high on meth, but it was really ridiculous. While it was happening, I was pretty calm, but afterwards was pretty worked up with being very furious and scared at the same time. Was I a wuss for walking away from him? A few years ago, when I was younger and not carrying a piece, I might have challenged him and had at it, but for the reasons already mentioned and the fact that I was carrying, I find that I want to stay out of any situation that could escalate. |
All Marines are jealous that they didn't get to wear Navy Blues. They feel bad they spent their time in the Navy as Marines. Too bad you weren't wearing your cracker jacks so he could eat off the "Marine tray."  Larry, all kidding aside I think you did the right thing. You did what you could to break off the confrontation and de-escalate the situation. I think you acted the way a prudent person would have. Glad you were able to walk away with just a bump in the blood pressure department and nothing else. |
No. Others can say what they want, but 99.9% of the time, it takes a bigger man to walk away (no pun intended.) It reminds me of how all these stupid ass gangbangers are these days. They don't want to step down from each other, and someone ends up getting stabbed or shot. Fighting is fucking overrated. It wouldn't have mattered if the guy was a buck'o' five soaking wet - you did the right thing. It's true that we all have our pride, and want to salvage our pride. I'm 6'4" and around 250. I don't get picked on much, but I have had the occasional jackass test me for no other reason than I'm a big guy. I could turn most of these jackasses' worlds upside down, but fuck 'em. Unless they are a direct threat to my health/well-being, they can talk all the shit they want, and I walk. Nine times out of ten, all the bystanders think the antagonist is a prick anyway. There are always gonna be those out there that walk around with an attitude looking to prove something. Let these people meet the other pricks looking to do the same, and maybe they will kill each other off and make the world a better place for the rest of us. |
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You couldn't have done anything more right than to have walked away. There are times to fight, like when there isn't another choice, but this was not one of those times. You were the better man and walked away. I am 24 years old, 6'7", 280lbs, young dumb and full of cum, been in far more fights than I have fingers and toes(I work in Loss Prevention), but I know better than to get into a fight that will not accomplish anything. It is a lot tougher for a man to walk away from a fight than it is to get into one... Good Job LARRYG! 
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 Being a marine, I would say the guy was just an ass hat! Hell, I havent even been out 4 years yetr and am already a fatass, But I have never had anyone screw with me about it....excepy biggetstick, and he got kicked in the sack, just kidding. But I think if someone called me a liar about it...I probably wouldnt be the bigger man about it..... And thanks Larry... |
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My friend, you certainly did the right thing. I understand how you feel too. You probably went to bew replaying in your mind how you could have done things differently. Probably intertained thoughts of beating the asshole or drawing down on him so, at the least, he wets his pants and turns tail. I've been there. But don't second guess things. You did right. You both walked away without blood shed or the cops showing up. You are the better man for it too. Mark |
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I think this is an excellent example of a problem many of us face, not having sufficient options. There is a reason for the law enforcement "Use of Force" scale. It gives the officer options for dealing with different situations. There is no reason why a private citizen should not work towards the same goal. There is a saying, "If all you have is a hammer, then the only thing you can fix is a nail." My take on things (for whatever it's worth) is strive in your personal training to give yourself more options. I see four primary levels that one should work for. 1- Verbalization/De-escalation- Most people are able to do this, but we all know those people whose mouth gets them into trouble rather than getting them out of it. Most of this is a result of Ego. If you are going to carry a firearm, you can't have an Ego. 2- Soft techniques- This is very defensive in nature. Some basic escapes from wrist or shirt grabs and all chemical devices (OC spray) If you are in Larrys situation, where your physical condition is a factor, then having a chemical device might be your only option. 3- Hard techniques- This is offensive in nature. Most of your Martial arts/fighting skills that allow you to go on the offensive when the situation has deteriorated and the battle has moved from the passive to the active stage. This also includes any impact devices such as a expanding baton or kubotan. 4- Deadly force- We all know what this is, but I like to put it in this context. Deadly force is akin to nuclear war. There is nothing higher. Total and complete destruction forever. You'd better have no options left before you push the launch button. And this brings us back to the options issue. The more options you have, the more effective and reasonable your response will be, and at the end of the day, your actions will be judged under the standard of "Reasonableness." Was it reasonable for you to shoot an unarmed man verbally harrassing you? Probably not. Was is reasonable to shoot an unarmed man, physically larger than you, actively attacking you, and you have a phyiscal condition which prohibits you from fighting back and you have no avenue of escape, probably is. Wouldn't it be nice to have the option of spraying the attacker with OC and walk away while he's writhing in pain? Probably. Please don't interpret this as what LarryG "should have" done. Larry did the right thing and avoided the confrontation. He effectively used verbal commands to deescalate the situation and successfully got out of a bad situation. My point is that (and I see it all the time in LE circles) people put too much emphasis on a firearm solving all their problems, and they are at a loss when the firearm doesn't. Work to give yourself more options in your personal situation. You'll have more confidence in your abilities to defend yourself and you'll be able to more successfully make the argument that your actions were reasonable based on the circumstances of the event if you actions are ever called into question, whether it be by a LEO, and civil attorney in a lawsuit, or a judge and/or jury. VSP |
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VSP, very well put.... Larry, you absolutely did the right thing under the circumstances. As Erik said, your verbal commands de-esculated the situation and allowed you to get out of it. I've known a lot of assholes in my time, even a few asshole Marines-but I never met any that would do what this supposed "Marine" did to a fellow servicemember/veteran. I like what VSP said in that it is nice to have options other than deadly force. When I carry off-duty, I also carry an 18" ASP baton (collapsible baton). When collapsed, it's roughly the size of a roll of quarters and I hardly notice it's there. As for OC....well I don't even bother. It usually takes one pissed off person and makes them even more pissed off, I've just seen it too many times. Add the fact that I know it works particularly well on me really keeps me from wanting to use it. I don't even bother to carry it at work and instead rely on joint manipulation and pressure points instead. |
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Dear Squidward: I'd let it go and not dwell on it. You did the right thing. It's better to be a fat-ass veteran like you and I, than to be a dumbass moron veteran. Many moons ago, I also used to work for Uncle Sam, but now if they dropped me from a C-130 - they'd have to use a cargo chute and roll me out on a pallet. OK. Maybe I'm overstating it a bit, but you get the point. I'll bet the jarhead wouldn't have been so critical of your figure if he needed a pickup from the beach. My business partner is a gyrene. We live the inter-service rivalry everyday. But when all is said and done - we know that we are all on the same team hank Brownie |
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If he was a Marine, and I doubt he really was, he must not have payed attention at the stateside bases. I saw tons of guys who had put on weight after they got out, and they hadn't been out anywhere close to 33 years. Anyway, don't let it get to you. Some fuckhead hanging around at the mall harrassing people isn't worth the trouble. |
| Yeah I hate it when members of different branches of the military insult each other based solely on the branch they're in. I know a guy in the Army in Iraq right now who,before he left,was ragging on Marines and all the other branches badly. I gave him a hypothetical situation in which a member of the a different branch saved his life. Would he be stubborn and refuse their help? Hell no if he's sane! He agreed with me. Like Brownie said,each branch depends on each other and are all working to keep America safe. Why should pride or ignorance get in the way of accomplishing that goal? United we stand,divided we fall. |
hair.gif LMAO... |
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Just some retard wannabe. You did the right thing and I wouldn't let it get to you, but I know how things like that can. I remember some old fart snowbird idiot flipped me off on I-95 south after he about ran me and my family off the road because he was an idiot driving an RV and didn't check his mirrors before changing lanes. Somehow it was my fault. It ate at me for at least a day or two. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack. You did the right thing. |
Typically all of the inter-service jabbing you see is just that, jabbing-usually in good fun too. I won't go as far as to say that "you'd have to be in the military to understand", because those with friends or family members usually understand also. I'm a former Marine myself-and I'm sure other former Marines and Navy can vouch for this-but the Marines and Navy would fight like cats and dogs amongst ourselves, but god forbid an outsider (read-non USMC or USN) get involved and it was on. I likened it to sibling rivalry more than anything. The fact of the matter is, we all are on the same team and we (usually) realize that. Yes Mark, the stuff works great on me-don't even try it though! |
Yep, one big dysfunctional family. Constant bickering and teasing among ourselves but anyone else pick on one of us, the others would be on them like white on rice. The old "I can pick on my brother but you can't".  Like I said initially, I don't really believe this guy was ever a Marine given the way he acted. Then again, he may have been one for a short time and got booted for mental problems. 
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While I'm not a leo/mil or anmything like that. I have been training in Martial arts for almost 9 years now (Bujinkan 3rd dan). Prior to my training I did get into a scuffle trying to protect someone & I got OC'ed. Since I was wearing glasses I was spared some of the eye searing & was able to stay in the fight. What I hated was that even hours after everything was over & the perp was in processing, I still had oc crap on me. I forget how many showers I had to take to get fully d-conned. Point being, if you use environmental contaminants, you must take into account the risk of you becoming a victim of it. As my wife has asthma, I keep OC out of the "defensive" tool bag. |
They have Dippin' Dots there! 
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The Japanese place in the food court has some marvelous teriyaki chicken and it's only about 2 miles from work.
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Never Again Volunteer Yourself Just tell the guy you had a good Food Service Officer. I have dealt with more weirdos over my life than I can possibly count. I somehow attract the nutjobs. Even at my job, which actually has somewhat stringent standards, I always manage to bump into the oddballs. Sounds like you did what I do, brush it off and move on. I don't consider using force until someone actually puts hands on me. |
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Try being a Navy Hospital Corpsman stationed with Marines. It is one time when they tease you a lot but I will say that when it comes down to it they take care of "Doc". He's the guy who will patch you up, plug the bleeding holes, stop the burning when you pee, and you don't want to piss him off cause he can get mean with the vaccine. Now I tell them the best Marines are Submarines. It can be hard to keep the weight off when there's a meal available every six hours and the farthest you could ever have to run is 300 feet. |
When your in the service it's more joking than anything. But there are countless people I've met who are not in the service and will never be, that will rag on the Marines,Navy,Air Force,Army,etc. But when they are faced with the fact that all the above branches are protecting them they shut their mouth very quickly. If they want to really jab at another branch why don't they join the military themselves and then they will have much more respect for them and all the jabbing will be with a good heart,like you said Lawman. |
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As a former Marine, I am sure that jerk was not a real Marine. He was either a wannabe or a nutcase. I will rag or tease my brothers on the blue side but I would never ever insult them. LarryG, you won the fight by de-escalating the situation. By walking away you protected yourself and any innocent bystanders. VSP's post nicely summed up all the tools you could have used. You chose wisely and responisbly. I would only add don't forget a cell phone. After removing ones self from the situation it might be wise to contact mall security or 911. This might prevent someone else from getting hurt and it might provide some legal cover as well. Generally, the police view the first person to contact them as the either victim or, at the very least, not the person causing the problem. LarryG, I'm not trying to bust your balls just sharing my thoughts. Thanks for sharing this experience with all of us on the Georgia forum. My wife and I have added this "what if" to our "tactical database". Force on force training, such as David Blinder's"Personal Defense Training's "The Test" or "Tactical Response's "The Fight - Force on Force Scenarios" are excellent training courses. We are all far more likely to be in a sitution similar to LarryG's than a gunfight. Force on Force training can prepare you for that. The Bald Monk |
That explains alot..... Hell, I even pick on other Marines, I like to give em the ole "Hey, I heard you were a jarhead" I really gets a charge out of the ones that dont know I also am a Jarhead. Yeah, I will vouch for the sibling rivalry, We used to give our "doc" hell, But dont let anyone else say a cross word to him. Even within our platoons, Engineers would give motor t crap, and vice versa, But dont let someone outside of our unit talk trash...Cause then "It's on like a pot of neckbones" We should have had a veterans day get together....Maybe next year. 
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One of the guys in my shop dumped his corpman girlfriend. Somehow his entire medical record ended up missing. That guy was petrified of shots. His next assignment was overseas, so he had to get ALL those shots again. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Still makes me smile almost 20 years later. One of my disbursing buddies got picked on by three guys from the ship when we were out at a bar. He was a little bitty guy, and we weren't around when it happened. He didn't take their bait. We went to the DK shop when we got back to the ship and shredded their checks which were supposed to be handed out the next day. Back then the checks were bundled by work center and the LPO would come and sign for them after checking to make sure they were all there. The LPOs never checked, so the check was signed for and officially left the DK office. That meant that the guys had to wait 90 days for the check to expire before they could be issued a new one. I think they started believing in direct deposit. They never messed with my buddy again.  I won't tell you any of the stories from the cooks. I learned early to make friends with the cooks, DKs and corpsmen. |
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OK everybody else gave their opinion. i worked as a jailer bout 26 years ago, now i work with a large group of LEOs. fighting is your last option, if you are 50 like me you are gonna get hurt, you gonna get detained by the policeman, you prolly gonna pay some money (disturbing the peace, damages to the property, emergency room visits,etc.), civil lawsuit, etc. one guy here teaches ground fighting, jui-jitsu, knife fighting, carries several weapons on him (knife, baton, etc.) is young and in good shape. i asked him one time about fighting and he told me run if you can. this ain't 10th grade where you tussle a little and make friends. you could be maimed for life in an altercation. local home town guy recently divorced, age 53, bout 6'2" 220# and very fit got into a fight while bar hopping. he beat the crap out of a guy that approached him like the guy that approached you. when he stood up he discoverd the guy on his back on the ground had sliced him in half with a knife. trip to the emergency room, ambulance ride to Savannah,, emergency surgery, doctors removed about half of his intestines. he don't wanna fight nomo. i would have done the exact same thing that you did. |
Your heardheadedness, and willing to defend what you believe in to the end. WHich are taught by the Corps, and good things in my book. We may disagree on things (Wich after reading some of your posts and argueing back and forth, it turns out that we do agree on, IE crooked cops.) And I dont always state things in the best manner, My fault. But I guess we get em both from the same place. I think we should get the navy guys and the marines together on the 23rd, and have a few beers. Honestly, More of the average Joes will know what the flag raising of Iwo was about, than the Birthday of the corps.... On another note and not a thread hijack, Have any of you guys ever seen the Iwo Jima Monument in DC? If not, Thats one thing I would suggest sieeng in your lifetime.... |
Hey Doc: Your post reminded me of a pickup truck decal which I saw the other day. It read, "Navy Corpsman. The only sailor that the Marines like!" |
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Your heardheadedness, and willing to defend what you believe in to the end. WHich are taught by the Corps, and good things in my book. We may disagree on things (Wich after reading some of your posts and argueing back and forth, it turns out that we do agree on, IE crooked cops.) And I dont always state things in the best manner, My fault. But I guess we get em both from the same place. I think we should get the navy guys and the marines together on the 23rd, and have a few beers. Honestly, More of the average Joes will know what the flag raising of Iwo was about, than the Birthday of the corps.... On another note and not a thread hijack, Have any of you guys ever seen the Iwo Jima Monument in DC? If not, Thats one thing I would suggest sieeng in your lifetime.... I would be up for that. I know a couple of retired vets that wouldn't mind tossing a few back with some of the younger pup's. I went two and a half years ago. It was July and I got chill bumps the second I got out of my truck. I just kept walking around it reading and re-reading all the placards and inscriptions. Sorry about continuing the hijack. Chris |
 LAWMAN I gotta give props, Silent drill team is the best of the best in the corps. Thats some hardcorps shit, Can you still slap sticks? I loved drill, But being 5'5" kinda shot me out of the running to be on the drill team....But no matter how many times I watch it, i am awed every time. And I would like to say as an extension of the IWO monument, If you get a chance to go to DC, I would definetely check out the Vietnam memorial also, One thinkg that I have noticed about Marines, is at 29, I can sit down with a 70 year old marine and talk like we were both in the corps at the same time. Any other Legion Members on this board? |