Official .260 tOBR Thread-Pics/Range/Loads/Updated Thread Index (Page 11 of 188)
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Originally Posted By mettee:
I like the gen II, great glass. My only issue is the reticle thickness at high power. They are awesome as far as build quality and fit and finish. |
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My shooting buddy reminded me that I have some "popped" primers, not necessarily "blown" primers. He has an excellent point as sometimes semantics are critical when discussing the finer points of an issue and as thoughtful analysis is applied. The internet lives forever and over time the original intent is lost, misconstrued or just used to skew the story. It's not fair to Mark and since I have no evidence of over-pressure, I'm editing my posts.
Mike also mentioned if the primers popped the pockets are still in spec and could be reloaded, whereas if there was over-pressure, the pockets are most likely over-sized and may not take a new primer. Reference this piece of primer, on reflection I think this too was in the rifle and simply dropped out when I was manipulating the rifle. 
This could be the piece of primer hanging on the top right of the upper before it dropped out. Since I was working the rifle, that piece could have been hiding anywhere in the upper or lower. 
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Originally Posted By Blaster7R:
The worst thing you can do for your gun budget is lay down behind a S&B scope... you did know how much you "needed" it until then lol. The next worst thing is to turn the turrets on it.. then every time you make an adjustment on your other scope you just feel let down lol I will say I do prefer a Horus reticle... makes holds very easy and spotting takes the geuss work put of a lot of things. I have 2 bushnell HDMR scopes and like them just fine.. just sight it in and don't touch a thing and only times I touch the turret is to put 5mil on when I am out past 800 or so.. |
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Originally Posted By buss45:
Alpha Munitions 260 Remington Brass came in today. http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/will4445/Alpha%20Munitions/alpha260_1_zpsffq0xvpi.jpg 
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
Care to elaborate on the subtentions? I notice that the actual line thickness throughout the reticle is thicker and in general less refined...at the higher powers. I have looked through/used several of the HD Gen II and even the AMG, and they all have that same characteristic... |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
Just comparing to say any factory NF, Khales, SB, Leupold, anything with HV reticles. I notice that the actual line thickness throughout the reticle is thicker and in general less refined...at the higher powers. I have looked through/used several of the HD Gen II and even the AMG, and they all have that same characteristic... Originally Posted By mettee:
Originally Posted By Defender3:
Care to elaborate on the subtentions? I notice that the actual line thickness throughout the reticle is thicker and in general less refined...at the higher powers. I have looked through/used several of the HD Gen II and even the AMG, and they all have that same characteristic... |
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
Interesting. I read somewhere that the S&Bs use subtentions of like 0.095. Unsure if the 27 power vs the 25 power has anything to do with that. I just didnt like the line detail that is all I know. |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
...you would love the SB. Originally Posted By mettee:
Originally Posted By Defender3:
And Optics Planet has 10% off and free shipping... 
Originally Posted By mettee:
Depends which reticle...The ones I have shot mostly have the Horus in them. The one SB I used a long time ago had a popular factory reticle and it was super fine. Unsure if the 27 power vs the 25 power has anything to do with that. I just didnt like the line detail that is all I know. Arrived home to find the first of the weekend orders has arrived. 
I'm heading down to the basement to check out the tOBR and watch my current guilty obsession, Live PD, it's Cops on steroids. I'll report back once I finish the clean and inspect. |
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
JMHO - Go with the 5-25x56 if you have the coin. I was shooting at 1000 today with a 5-20x50 and appreciated extra magnification (older eyes too). A friend was shooting the Vortex HD II 4.5-27x50 and it was also very nice and not too much for that range. A second friend was shooting a 5-20 S&B and it was superb, what a piece of glass in that S&B. I bought the 5-25 S&B for a bolt action I've yet to decide on, so I've been running it on my ARs, but will be switching to a 1-8x Trijicon for 308 (16"), hunting within 500 yards and range use out to 750 yards, and a 3-15ish (S&B or Tangent Theta) for the 260 (22"), hunting out to 750 yards, range use out to 1000yards. |
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Excellent Live PD, AK with a 50rd drum and a Glock with a 32rd mag, I luv that show!
I finished the clean and inspect of the tOBR and can't find any issues with the bolt, BCG, upper, chamber or barrel; everything looks good. I'm going to call Prime and speak with Jim since I had two popped primers and another case showed evidence a third was about to go. No idea why I would have the issues, but I'll keep trying to determine the cause. Here are the two popped primers and the third that was about to go. It's hard to see, but that primer is pushed out. 
Pro-tip, keep some patches in a baby food jar, you can keep them soaked and use them without creating a mess. 
Think I might need to clean the brake? 
Some drinking pleasure arrived from Cuba today.
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maybe
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
Excellent Live PD, AK with a 50rd drum and a Glock with a 32rd mag, I luv that show! I finished the clean and inspect of the tOBR and can't find any issues with the bolt, BCG, upper, chamber or barrel; everything looks good. I'm going to call Prime and speak with Jim since I had two popped primers and another case showed evidence a third was about to go. No idea why I would have the issues, but I'll keep trying to determine the cause. Here are the two popped primers and the third that was about to go. It's hard to see, but that primer is pushed out. <snip> As a reference, I find that some of my (especially ball powder) loads can go up by more than 100 FPS from 40F to 90F ambient and sitting in the sun. In load development, it would be the equivalent of adding .5 grain or so of TAC or 2000mr for example to get that extra speed. In many cases, that extra half grain would have put it above max. On the Vortex- you asked about subtentions- the EBR-2C only has .5mils on the elevation as opposed to .2mil like most of the horus trees. It is a tiny bit thicker in the 4.5-27, but I do not really notice it in use and that might be to get the illumination to work better. It's tough to illuminate a horus evenly and Vortex does it really well. |
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Any thoughts on installing a jp high pressure bolt? Or possable the gun is unlocking too soon?
I'm by far from a expert and don't want to rush to judgement but it would seem to me maybe the issue is not with the ammo but with the gun? Can you post up the lot number of the prime ammo you are shooting as I bet I may have some from the same lot.i'm going shooting Saturday if the weather is good and my work gets done this week.i'll let you know if my 260 exhibits any of the same issues with the prime ammo,hopefully I can use ammo from the same lot to compare. Pete |
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Originally Posted By bfk4lyfe:
I could have sworn the guy that had one of the first/t&e 260s (can't remember his user name but I know he changed it, he has a few listings on the moa challenge) said the Prime was too hot for a gas gun. Could this primer issue be caused by running the gun suppressed? Or did the primers blow unsuppressd? Maybe mark could chime in with some ideas as to what is going on. |
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Originally Posted By nihilsum:
Originally Posted By Defender3:
Excellent Live PD, AK with a 50rd drum and a Glock with a 32rd mag, I luv that show! I finished the clean and inspect of the tOBR and can't find any issues with the bolt, BCG, upper, chamber or barrel; everything looks good. I'm going to call Prime and speak with Jim since I had two popped primers and another case showed evidence a third was about to go. No idea why I would have the issues, but I'll keep trying to determine the cause. Here are the two popped primers and the third that was about to go. It's hard to see, but that primer is pushed out. <snip> As a reference, I find that some of my (especially ball powder) loads can go up by more than 100 FPS from 40F to 90F ambient and sitting in the sun. In load development, it would be the equivalent of adding .5 grain or so of TAC or 2000mr for example to get that extra speed. In many cases, that extra half grain would have put it above max. On the Vortex- you asked about subtentions- the EBR-2C only has .5mils on the elevation as opposed to .2mil like most of the horus trees. It is a tiny bit thicker in the 4.5-27, but I do not really notice it in use and that might be to get the illumination to work better. It's tough to illuminate a horus evenly and Vortex does it really well. Here’s a picture of the 1,000y line where you can see my rifle, mags and ammo out in the sun. I also removed the ammo carriers from the box and they were exposed. By that time of the day, it was about 90-92 degrees, exactly the conditions nihilsum is referencing, let alone the thermal transfer from the direct sunlight. 
Here’s the picture of the popped primers and when I looked closely at the third case with the primer pushed out, you can see the carbon in the firing pin depression indicating the primer was about to be pierced. That could have been the first round hot enough (temperature) to have a pressure increase. One of the popped primer rounds was number two and the last was the third causing the primer to be blown into the upper/extension. So, the environment was hot, the rifle, mags and ammo were in direct sun and the round was charged into a hot chamber that could again raise the cartridge/powder temp. I think we have a winner here folks as there were no previous issues shooting at 600 when temps were in the 70’s and rising, or at anytime I shot 350 or so rounds previously.
Here are some articles about ammunition and powder sensitivity to temperatures. Review them and make your own conclusions, but I’m going to take common sense measures to keep the temps of my ammo down by removing them and the mags from direct sunlight. Powder Temp Stability Fact or Fiction about Temp Sensitivity From the M14 Forums H4350 Sensitivity in a .260 I have a note into Jim at Prime to discuss, I’ll also ask if he knows what powder Prime is using so we can possibly learn its sensitivity to temps. Thanks for the info on the Vortex subtentions. I’ll probably end up ordering a HD II but for now I think I’ll give the CC a bit of a rest. Originally Posted By icecold1:
Any thoughts on installing a jp high pressure bolt? Or possable the gun is unlocking too soon? I'm by far from a expert and don't want to rush to judgement but it would seem to me maybe the issue is not with the ammo but with the gun? Can you post up the lot number of the prime ammo you are shooting as I bet I may have some from the same lot.i'm going shooting Saturday if the weather is good and my work gets done this week.i'll let you know if my 260 exhibits any of the same issues with the prime ammo,hopefully I can use ammo from the same lot to compare. Pete I think, looking at the “evidence” we have, it doesn’t support a mechanical issue with the rifle, quite the opposite, the tOBR is rock solid and engineered like a tank. For example, if the rifle was unlocking too soon, that would indicate a pressure issue. There would be clear signs including a flattening of the primers and the brass would still be hot and expanding so the case could be bulged or suffer a case head separation. There are also no other indicators of a pressure or mechanical issue, for example, excessing hammering from hard recoil (and recall brass is being thrown right where it should be, every time). Absent mechanical, we then have the ammo to examine. I fired 350 some rounds previous to this range trip and the Prime worked fine, but temps were never higher than 80 degrees and I was shooting under cover. I check brass after each trip and there were no indicators of pressure, thus supporting no mechanical or ammunition issues. That leaves us with nihilsum’s suggestion that it could be environmental. I do think he provided thoughtful analysis and when reading some articles on temp sensitivity, it’s definitely the leading possibility. Looking over the brass and analyzing the circumstances, supports the supposition that heat induced higher pressures. I think that was the cause and I’ll be keeping my ammo from direct sunlight on a hot day. I could be back at Quantico this weekend and I’ll be using the same lot ammo, so we’ll see what happens on this trip (I can also foresee a portable canopy in my future.) 
Originally Posted By icecold1:
Originally Posted By bfk4lyfe:
I could have sworn the guy that had one of the first/t&e 260s (can't remember his user name but I know he changed it, he has a few listings on the moa challenge) said the Prime was too hot for a gas gun. Could this primer issue be caused by running the gun suppressed? Or did the primers blow unsuppressd? Maybe mark could chime in with some ideas as to what is going on. Originally Posted By bfk4lyfe:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/265969_18-New-260-Remington-PredatOBR---accuracy-repeatability-exercise-.html&page=7 This was the thread/post I was thinking off. All said and done, I’m leaning heavily towards an operator induced situation due to environmental conditions. I'm backing myself off the ledge and will be keeping ALL my ammo out of direct sun on a hot day. |
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Live PD is such a hoot, Friday night's episode had a car chase (IIRC) in Phoenix where the female SJW type refused to stop, led about 10 units on an erratic highway chase and then refused to exit the vehicle after she was spiked and stopped. Po-Po K9 was released into the vehicle and chewed on her until she had enough and rolled out the driver's side and into the roadway. Great camera shots of the subject with multiple arm bites and the K-9 wanting moar; what gets into these folks?
Jim from Prime e-mailed me and called me this morning to discuss the popped primers. He was very concerned and we had a great, ranging, discussion. I won't go into all the details, but he was very concerned and listened intently as I detailed what had happened (I had also sent him pictures). Jim's first comments (without me saying anything about it) were to ask about the conditions and how hot was the day. I briefed him and we spoke some more about the situation. The bottomline is the Prime is loaded to the edge (Ferrari) and customized for bolt rifles. While it still can be trusted to operate safely in a semi, the combination of environmental factors most likely were the contributors to the pooped primers (also remember this is commercial ammo that does not have staked primers akin to military stuff). I was totally satisfied with our discussion and I'm going to keep shooting the Prime, as well as do some additional testing and reporting back to Jim. |
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| Has anyone done testing with Hornady 130gr eld ammo? That's what I was planning on running through mine until I get a nice stock pile of brass to reload. Any pressure issues to speak of or is it good to go? What about heavier loads? 139-140gr etc. nosler has some really high bc 142gr bullets I was interested in but I don't want to push past the gas guns capabilities. It will be shot suppressed fwiw. |
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
Live PD is such a hoot, Friday night's episode had a car chase (IIRC) in Phoenix where the female SJW type refused to stop, led about 10 units on an erratic highway chase and then refused to exit the vehicle after she was spiked and stopped. Po-Po K9 was released into the vehicle and chewed on her until she had enough and rolled out the driver's side and into the roadway. Great camera shots of the subject with multiple arm bites and the K-9 wanting moar; what gets into these folks? Jim from Prime e-mailed me and called me this morning to discuss the popped primers. He was very concerned and we had a great, ranging, discussion. I won't go into all the details, but he was very concerned and listened intently as I detailed what had happened (I had also sent him pictures). Jim's first comments (without me saying anything about it) were to ask about the conditions and how hot was the day. I briefed him and we spoke some more about the situation. The bottomline is the Prime is loaded to the edge (Ferrari) and customized for bolt rifles. While it still can be trusted to operate safely in a semi, the combination of environmental factors most likely were the contributors to the pooped primers (also remember this is commercial ammo that does not have staked primers akin to military stuff). I was totally satisfied with our discussion and I'm going to keep shooting the Prime, as well as do some additional testing and reporting back to Jim. METH hahahahha |
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Good thinking on the ammo in the sun, I have no doubt that was a contributing factor.
That is one of the things I will always make sure I do, put the ammo out of the sun. I shoot in AZ heat all the time and you can hardly touch the brass it gets so hot just from the sun. Picking up brass becomes a how fast can I do this process |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
Good thinking on the ammo in the sun, I have no doubt that was a contributing factor. That is one of the things I will always make sure I do, put the ammo out of the sun. I shoot in AZ heat all the time and you can hardly touch the brass it gets so hot just from the sun. Picking up brass becomes a how fast can I do this process
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Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
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Originally Posted By mettee:
Good thinking on the ammo in the sun, I have no doubt that was a contributing factor. That is one of the things I will always make sure I do, put the ammo out of the sun. I shoot in AZ heat all the time and you can hardly touch the brass it gets so hot just from the sun. Picking up brass becomes a how fast can I do this process |
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Originally Posted By Joshpuh:
Has anyone done testing with Hornady 130gr eld ammo? That's what I was planning on running through mine until I get a nice stock pile of brass to reload. Any pressure issues to speak of or is it good to go? What about heavier loads? 139-140gr etc. nosler has some really high bc 142gr bullets I was interested in but I don't want to push past the gas guns capabilities. It will be shot suppressed fwiw. Posted previously: 
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Originally Posted By mettee:
One word METH hahahahha Originally Posted By mettee:
Originally Posted By Defender3:
Live PD is such a hoot, Friday night's episode had a car chase (IIRC) in Phoenix where the female SJW type refused to stop, led about 10 units on an erratic highway chase and then refused to exit the vehicle after she was spiked and stopped. Po-Po K9 was released into the vehicle and chewed on her until she had enough and rolled out the driver's side and into the roadway. Great camera shots of the subject with multiple arm bites and the K-9 wanting moar; what gets into these folks? Jim from Prime e-mailed me and called me this morning to discuss the popped primers. He was very concerned and we had a great, ranging, discussion. I won't go into all the details, but he was very concerned and listened intently as I detailed what had happened (I had also sent him pictures). Jim's first comments (without me saying anything about it) were to ask about the conditions and how hot was the day. I briefed him and we spoke some more about the situation. The bottomline is the Prime is loaded to the edge (Ferrari) and customized for bolt rifles. While it still can be trusted to operate safely in a semi, the combination of environmental factors most likely were the contributors to the pooped primers (also remember this is commercial ammo that does not have staked primers akin to military stuff). I was totally satisfied with our discussion and I'm going to keep shooting the Prime, as well as do some additional testing and reporting back to Jim. METH hahahahha |
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Originally Posted By Freakinout:
It gets almost that hot in TX (more humidity for sure) and brass sitting in the sun can get tricky as far as picking up brass, usually throw on some gloves for that to keep from burning my fingers as well as all the prickly/poisonous stuff |
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Originally Posted By Freakinout:
It gets almost that hot in TX (more humidity for sure) and brass sitting in the sun can get tricky as far as picking up brass, usually throw on some gloves for that to keep from burning my fingers as well as all the prickly/poisonous stuff Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Originally Posted By mettee:
Good thinking on the ammo in the sun, I have no doubt that was a contributing factor. That is one of the things I will always make sure I do, put the ammo out of the sun. I shoot in AZ heat all the time and you can hardly touch the brass it gets so hot just from the sun. Picking up brass becomes a how fast can I do this process Put your range bag next to your rifle and it will do the work for you.
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Originally Posted By mettee:
ETA: A lot of the new powders are temp stable from like 20-120ish F, or something. They have an mv spread in that range of temp, but when the rounds are super heated it would still cause this result. I could see people thinking when they see the word temp stable that they would be okay. Did the owner at Prime let on to what they are using for power? Originally Posted By mettee:
Originally Posted By mettee:
Good thinking on the ammo in the sun, I have no doubt that was a contributing factor. That is one of the things I will always make sure I do, put the ammo out of the sun. I shoot in AZ heat all the time and you can hardly touch the brass it gets so hot just from the sun. Picking up brass becomes a how fast can I do this process |
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
Seriously, meth, weed and DUIs. Make a bad lane change, fail to signal, have a license plate bulb out and the man stops you, from there it's a short journey to can I search your vehicle for my safety and an even shorter path to jail. |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
I have some enduron imr 4451, from what I can tell it should be a good one. I can get it regularly here. Originally Posted By mettee:
Originally Posted By Defender3:
Nope, asked but not answered. I'm going to put some rounds out in the sun for about 20 minutes and see what sort of temps I get off the brass. |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
No joke I have heard the glass pipes clanking around in people pockets, I said that sounds a lot like a meth pipe, hahahah
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
I knew there was a reason I don't visit TX. Put your range bag next to your rifle and it will do the work for you.Originally Posted By Defender3:
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Originally Posted By mettee:
Good thinking on the ammo in the sun, I have no doubt that was a contributing factor. That is one of the things I will always make sure I do, put the ammo out of the sun. I shoot in AZ heat all the time and you can hardly touch the brass it gets so hot just from the sun. Picking up brass becomes a how fast can I do this process Put your range bag next to your rifle and it will do the work for you.
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Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
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Originally Posted By Freakinout:
I do a lot of wandering around.... 800 acres and all, but I do a lot of shooting from a rocky bluff that seems to help and has a little bit of shade. Just drag a cooler full of ice and drinks and its not half bad Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Originally Posted By Defender3:
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Originally Posted By mettee:
Good thinking on the ammo in the sun, I have no doubt that was a contributing factor. That is one of the things I will always make sure I do, put the ammo out of the sun. I shoot in AZ heat all the time and you can hardly touch the brass it gets so hot just from the sun. Picking up brass becomes a how fast can I do this process Put your range bag next to your rifle and it will do the work for you.
|
Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
|
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
http://poteau-oil.com/photography/firearm2017/jeep0317-01.jpg http://poteau-oil.com/photography/firearm2017/jeep0317-04.jpg |
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
Very nice, just needs moar .260! Originally Posted By Defender3:
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
http://poteau-oil.com/photography/firearm2017/jeep0317-01.jpg http://poteau-oil.com/photography/firearm2017/jeep0317-04.jpg
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Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
|
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Yes.... I'm open to sponsorship Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Originally Posted By Defender3:
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
http://poteau-oil.com/photography/firearm2017/jeep0317-01.jpg http://poteau-oil.com/photography/firearm2017/jeep0317-04.jpg |
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
I'll send you a MBT sticker... Originally Posted By Defender3:
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Originally Posted By Defender3:
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
http://poteau-oil.com/photography/firearm2017/jeep0317-01.jpg http://poteau-oil.com/photography/firearm2017/jeep0317-04.jpg
|
Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
|
Originally Posted By mettee:
FNO you little weirdo... I think those pics are good, nice area to shoot. Who cares if its hot. Cool off in that pond Originally Posted By mettee:
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
I've got a couple of those... and I expect a few more in the box UPS should be delivering today I think those pics are good, nice area to shoot. Who cares if its hot. Cool off in that pond Those 800 acres are under 2 hours from me, our place in NM is around 10 hours |
Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
Nope, asked but not answered. Having AB or another app that allows you to set velocity at different temps in the weapon profile is great. The kestrel automagically squaring it away is even better. Good luck next time out. Not sure what your other brass looks like, but the case head also looks like it was running the rifle pretty hard. Might be interesting to keep a labradar or magnetospeed up to monitor things as you might feel the recoil (or have your trigger locked up by a loose primer) but don't have the sticky bolt lift to let you know you're too close. Also reinforces that semis and bolt actions are not created equal and can't be loaded the same unless you want to give up some of the extra margin you could get out the bolt. |