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Love it, whats the rail length? I have a 9.5 I am planning on pairing with a 11.5" BCM I have the 10". I wish Daniel Defense had an 11" rail. It would have worked perfectly with the 11.5" barrel. |
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I am stuck deciding between this barrel and a Noveske N4 light for my next upper. Has anyone out there done a good range report on accuracy for the SS410? Also, does anyone know how the stripped barrel weights compare between the two?
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mtdawg,
I have 4 complete Noveske N4 guns (one 14.5" carbine and three mid-lengths) and I have a SS410 and a few other BCM uppers. I have never measured groups between the SS410 and the Noveske, but have shot both on the same day while zeroing the guns and getting them ready for upcoming matches. I didn't notice much difference in my zero group size at 100 yards using a 5x optic. I use both a Noveske N4 mid-length and SS410 mid-length in run and gun competition out to 425 yards. As a general rule a stainless barrel will always be more accurate than a chrome lined barrel. A majority of the time I use my SS410 upper for competiton Food for thought: 03designgroup | Which Carbine Is More Accurate Take care and be safe |
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Quoted:
I am stuck deciding between this barrel and a Noveske N4 light for my next upper. Has anyone out there done a good range report on accuracy for the SS410? Also, does anyone know how the stripped barrel weights compare between the two? Not sure you are going to really be able to get an objective comparison. The N4 light barrel is a chrome lined 1:7 twist. While the BCM SS410 is stainless with a 1:8 twist. Generally a stainless will be more acurate than a chrome line but both Noveske SS and N4 are accurate to start with. I have an Ion bond BCM SS410 and an Ion bond Noveske SS recon that I sent out to have work done on them. So I haven't had a change to shoot these side by side. Then Again they aren't an identical setup as the BCM is in VIS upper and the Noveske is in a URX II so it's a tough call. For what it's worth the BCM and the Noveske were the only two barrels I ever considered for the VIS or URX uppers. |
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so what kind of bench accuracy are folks getting?
so far the best ten shot groups have been around 1.25 to 1.5 for me. hornady 75gr match had two 1.5 groups from the box and my handloads ran from 1.25 up. I love the barrel overall but am still hoping to find a bit more accuracy. mine has a pws fsc556 on the end to comply with ct law. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted:
so what kind of bench accuracy are folks getting? so far the best ten shot groups have been around 1.25 to 1.5 for me. hornady 75gr match had two 1.5 groups from the box and my handloads ran from 1.25 up. I love the barrel overall but am still hoping to find a bit more accuracy. mine has a pws fsc556 on the end to comply with ct law. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Which upper do you have? 87GN posted a review of his 18" 410SS SPR on Friday and shot some .8 MOA groups with Black Hills. The thread is somewhere in AR general discussion. |
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built my own using that barrel. Someone else pointed out that thread and I checked it out. When browsing on my phone I don't load pics by default and hadn't realized it was the same barrel type until they told me.
He had significantly better moa values at 200 than 100, so I'm not sure what to think. My numbers were pretty similar at 100yards. I did some serious checking of possible mechanical issues and found that my scope's rings were not as snugged down on the tube as they should be. They were locktite'd but over the course of a year they seem to have loosened a bit. I am not sure if they were loose enough overall to let the scope shift at all, but I fixed the issue and will retest wednesday or thursday depending on weather. That was the only issue I found. ETA: my issue was apparently insufficient copper removal during break in, not to mention too casual a break in. A lot of scrubbing later I've got it down to a consistent 1.5 moa with three different loads when I do my part. That's on a fairly windy day and with ammo loaded on a progressive with lee dies, so I'm sure there's a good bit of potential lost. I'm going to pick up a couple boxes of match ammo soon to see what I can get and will wait to try it until a calm day. I also have some copper solvent coming, part of the reason I hadn't realized it had built up was that my regular solvent would show as pretty much clean unless I scrubbed the hell out of the barrel to break more loose. A lot of time and energy on the first inch past the chamber has helped a lot. |
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Remy
I'm on my second 16" SS410, with the latest, I've run 19-5 shot groups with 8 different types of ammo running from 62 grain to 77 grain overall MOA is 2.36 so far. Thus far the best load looks like it might be the BH 60 grain VMAX which is running 1.45 MOA, for 2-5 shot groups. It's running 1.81 MOA for 3-5 shot groups of PPU 62 FMJ's, the least expensive ammo I'm running in it. I haven't tried any 55's yet, but so far it's beginning to look like this 1/8 upper prefers light verses heavy bullets. 5-5 shot groups of 75 grain Hornady .233 TAP Practice ammo gave me 2.32 MOA, the Black Hills 77 SMK, is slightly better at 2.1 MOA, BVAC 75 grain TAC load and FGMM and BVAC 69 SMK are similar, but nothing breaking 2 MOA when I "average" multiple groups. My single best group of 1.05 MOA was with the Hornady load, followed by the BH 60 grain VMAX at 1.19 MOA. I've read that the SAM-R chamber is "designed" to deliver 2MOA with the Mk-262 load, so maybe this is all it will do? I'm not getting much if any copper out of it, although I'm going to try some Sweets in the throat area, but so far the bore appears to be staying clean. I'm considering a JP/VTAC free float to squeeze a little more out of it and was wondering if you free floated your barrel? |
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Remy I'm on my second 16" SS410, with the latest, I've run 19-5 shot groups with 8 different types of ammo running from 62 grain to 77 grain overall MOA is 2.36 so far. Thus far the best load looks like it might be the BH 60 grain VMAX which is running 1.45 MOA, for 2-5 shot groups. It's running 1.81 MOA for 3-5 shot groups of PPU 62 FMJ's, the least expensive ammo I'm running in it. I haven't tried any 55's yet, but so far it's beginning to look like this 1/8 upper prefers light verses heavy bullets. 5-5 shot groups of 75 grain Hornady .233 TAP Practice ammo gave me 2.32 MOA, the Black Hills 77 SMK, is slightly better at 2.1 MOA, BVAC 75 grain TAC load and FGMM and BVAC 69 SMK are similar, but nothing breaking 2 MOA when I "average" multiple groups. My single best group of 1.05 MOA was with the Hornady load, followed by the BH 60 grain VMAX at 1.19 MOA. I've read that the SAM-R chamber is "designed" to deliver 2MOA with the Mk-262 load, so maybe this is all it will do? I'm not getting much if any copper out of it, although I'm going to try some Sweets in the throat area, but so far the bore appears to be staying clean. I'm considering a JP/VTAC free float to squeeze a little more out of it and was wondering if you free floated your barrel? Doesn't make much sense to have a barrel like this and not free float it. Mine is sub moa easy with black hills blue box heavier stuff. |
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Free floated with a troy trx extreme rail. I haven't had a remotely calm day to check my results so I have no idea where I'm at now. I also decided that most of my prior results are not fair to the barrel, regardless of break in goofs, because the amount of wind variation was enough to ruin things. I was looking at the chart for how big a deflection I'd see at 100 and then looking at my targets... A lot of the results could be explained away as wind. When I'm whining about 1/2" at 100 yards but dealing with 10-20mph wind changes with both velocity and direction changing constantly it's not really fair to the hardware.
I'm hoping today will be calm after work, the forecast gives me hope. If not this afternoon, maybe tomorrow. I have a few test loads ready and waiting. No V-Max, but some loads that have been consistent sub moa in another AR and shown better than average results in this barrel. I also have some brass all ready to load the 69 grain nosler custom comp bullets I picked up, but haven't had a chance to actually load any. That will probably be for saturday. If It is windy today I'll probably head over to a shop afterwork and pick up a box of black hills 68 grain ammo, I tried at cabela's the other day and they didn't have any. Normally I'd mail order, but would rather give them a try tomorrow if weather permits. As for copper build up, my scrubbing did get a lot out, and when I got my bore tech copper remover in it got a touch more. |
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Thanks...free floating will be my next project.
Yes, wind will bat a bullet around. Good luck with the next range session and please keep us posted. |
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Quick update, since I still haven't gotten to try new factory ammo.
Out of three groups I shot the other day when it was calm out I got: 1.55" with 55 grain game kings over 26 grains of varget 1.12 and 1.2 with nosler 69 grain custom competition. I don't have the load weight handy, but it was a mid to upper end load, but under book max by a decent cushion since it was a new load for that rifle. Neither load had any pressure signs and a competitive shooter that uses an AR based rifle suggested that I bump it up another notch and see what happens. If it improves, keep going until case capacity stops me or I see signs of pressure. He also suggested that, just for the sake of seeing what kind of groups I can get at 100 yards, I try some of the 52-53 grain match bullets. I've ordered a couple options as well as some 60 grain V-Max. I'm planning to get some other powders that give me a bit more velocity room than Varget, I don't like compressing loads. I did discover something pretty funny. The barrel is absolutely terrible with my 22 conversion, at least with Blazer standard and Fiocci sub sonics. At 50 yards it was having trouble keeping them on an 8.5x11 paper, forget 100 yards, it was all over the place. I'd fire ten rounds and not see one hole appear in the target sheet sometimes. I'm going to try some other ammo to see if it matters, but if that's as good as it gets I'll limit my conversion use to 25 yards and action oriented drills. Boy did I go through a lotta 22 before I figured out what was going on. I was checking that the scope wasn't loose, that the conversion was seated properly, all the same ammo in the magazine, checked that it was not falling short or going high... Keep in mind that this was a pretty much dead calm day, any wind and I'd probably have been completely lost. |
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I just ordered a 16" SS 410 barrel with the hope of putting together a compact tack driver. Has anyone gotten sub MOA groups with this barrel or did I mistake the capabilities of this barrel.
My barrel should be here tomorrow, but if I bought the wrong barrel for my intended purpose, I'm hoping to find out pretty quickly so that I can have another barrel overnighted to me by the weekend. |
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"1.12 and 1.2 with nosler 69 grain custom competition."
That's pretty darn good, are these 5 shot groups? And a little more velocity, powder choice, case trimming or whatever should get you sub MOA. Thanks for posting your results! I'm wanting to get some 68-77 grain bullets working if I can and I found some interesting data by a shooter using N-135 and SMK 77's, he has an interest in accuracy and has posted some excellent results at http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1213512 I can't comment on the .22 conversion experience, I've never tried it. Obviously something didn't jive, but good to know for future reference. Tony Check out this Blog, I "think" this is the SS410. http://vuurwapenblog.com/2010/04/16/bcm-mk12-mod0-upper-initial-accuracy-report/#comments Other then the above reference, I have not been able to find any information regarding someone actually sitting down on a bench, averaging 4-5 shot groups and posting the results with the SS410. The guy above did 10 shot groups so his results are really impressive! Best bet would probably be to "bench it" with quality loads, a good optic and trigger and see what you can get it to do. I have the same intentions as you and it's my first AR, I mistakenly tried "cheap ammo" first and went with a non free float rail, hind sight being 20/20....I'd recommend getting several weights of Black Hills, free float it and go from there. I could have free floated with what I wasted in "crap ammo" gas and range fees. Other then Molon, Cody and a few and far between others, very few guy's here seem to have any interest in finding out what thier AR's will really do from a bench, practical accuracy and reliability seem to valued more then tack driving, which is understandable with "fighting carbines". If you're not familiar with Molon's work I suggest you read up on it to get accurate expectations. With the SS410 I'm hoping to achieve both and with the current non free float and factory ammo I consider an honest, consistent 1.5 -2 MOA average that I'm getting (with the right loads) to be ok. I think with the right load and free float I can get it in the sub MOA range. There is a hunting forum called Predator Masters with an AR section and the "hunters" claim to be getting sub MOA all day long using Rock River, DPMS and Remingtons along with a few custom barrels. |
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In my case I'm doing 10 shot groups unless otherwise noted (such as 9 shots with a called flier when I mess up. For now I'm testing the rifle and ammo, not me, so I'm dumping things I know are caused by outside factors.)
I HAVE gotten sub moa out of the barrel, but it was never repeatable so for now it's still just luck. Obviously I'm right on the cusp, and I'm the first to admit my reloads are not as perfect as they could be, I'm limited to what my finances allow in terms of tooling and testing options. I also have not tested seriously at 200 yards, which is where 87's report shows it really shined. Once I get some loads I'm happy with at 100 I'll see how it does further out. For now I just enjoy ringing the plates at 200 when I'm done with my testing. I like to know exactly what a rifle is capable of, then I know where the limits are even when not using all the available accuracy. I will figure out what I can get for accuracy when that's the primary goal, and what I can get for accuracy with loads tailored for other needs. For example, when all my testing is done I'll probably pick the most accurate of the heavy bullet social purpose bullets and a cheat sheet for scope adjustments from my usual day to day ammo at various ranges and conditions. A hundred or so rounds of that ammo will get loaded up and kept stored for future needs. Ideally I can pick a load that works decently in both of my AR's, though as long as it's not unstable in the other one I'll just note the adjustments and be done. |
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For 10 shot groups I'd say that's is pretty good...excellent actually. Your getting there and it's in the range of what Molon is getting with his top quality reporting and gear.
Sounds like we're pretty much on the same page, man I've got to find the money and time to reload, it's been about 10 or more years, but something I must get back into. |
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Guys, I really appreciate the input. It seems that your results have been pretty typical. I got this barrel because I thought it was a barrel that I could expect sub MOA groups from, given good ammunition. I really wasn't expecting to have to hunt high and low for a tweaked load just to get MOA. I'm almost afraid to tear down my rifle to install it now. I may have just gotten lucky, but I have a Rock River chrome lined HBAR that shoots 1.5 to 2 MOA groups with Silver Bear and will do MOA on a good day. I'm getting consistent sub MOA with Hornady 55gr V-Max too.
I guess I'm just going to have to try it out to see. I guess the worse that can happen is that I wind up selling the SS 410 on the EE for a couple hundred and picking up WOA barrel. I'm just kind of anxious to get this project behind me, so that I can move on to the next. Thanks again. |
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I wouldn't consider these match barrels, and some of the RRA and DPMS barrels really are tailored that direction. On the other hand, several folks have reported very good results as the range increases.
A WOA may or may not be better in that area, depending on the barrel you choose. I'm pondering a Krieger for a true precision AR but we'll see, this one's already more accurate than I am anywhere but the bench so I'm not sure it's worthwhile for me. Even off a bi-pod I can't really hold steadier than this barrel shoots without some sort of bag. To clarify my comment about the RRA and DPMS barrels, I just mean that both companies offer barrels specifically designed for maximum accuracy off the bench. Lots of companies make barrels for different purposes, with different end results, it's not just a factor of brand. |
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Therein lies my mistake. Some of the comments and representations that I got led me to believe that this was a match grade barrel. The other barrel that I was considering was a Sabre Defense barrel, but I decided to go with the BCM. Oh well, it's already done. I'll shoot what I have through it, which should be a pretty good variety of ammo. If I can't get groups to better those of the RRA barrel, I'll just put it up on the EE.
It should, at the least, be a good all around barrel. Maybe I'll have it chopped to 14.5" and throw it on my carbine. I'll see and will report back after I've run some lead down the pipe. Since this barrel is hand lapped, I suppose that no break in procedure is needed. |
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BREAK IT IN. trust me, you really really really wanna break it in.
I had serious accuracy issues at first due to not properly breaking it in and having copper build up. It took a lot of work to get it properly cleaned out, far more than if I'd done things right. I think this is about ideal as a general purpose barrel if you aren't after super light. |
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I don't feel at liberty to disclose the barrel maker, since BCM has been quiet about it and I don't know if they all come from the same vendor... but from what Bravo told me in an email it is a top of the line barrel from a very well known and highly respected company, I'm sure you wouldn't be disappointed.
I've been shooting over 50 years, but I'm an AR newbie and getting an AR to be accurate is a new experience for me, I'm not an expert at anything and I've only got all of 600 rounds downrange and about 3-4 months of experience with AR's, so take what I say with a grain of salt. From my "online research" I found out that the SAM-R chamber is a Marine designation and they called for a barrel that would deliver 2.0 MOA with the Mk-262 load. I'm running 2.1 MOA with the red box BH 77 grain SMK for 3-5 shot groups, that's all time and money has allowed so far. Being a Marine designation, I think it's obviously designed to be accurate in a battle environment, so the chamber is probably "looser" then a Wylde but a tad tighter then a standard 5.56. Some other things is that the RR and DPMS guns at least from the "hunting crowd" have clean barrels meaning no flash hiders or front sight towers and almost all are free floated, I think when you combine all of these things I think it leads to better accuracy reports...but I'm just speculating. I went with the complete BCM because I wanted BCM reliability at BCM prices, and from my research it's reported to be more reliable then RR...and maybe so but perhaps at the cost of some accuracy due to the looser chamber? I'm just speculating, as some guys such as "87" have reported astounding groups, and as we all know each barrel has it's own personality. I don't have time to look it up, but Molon has accuracy reports for 69 and 77 grain loads, and IIRC he's running right around 1 MOA with some pretty expensive gear. As far as break-in? I don't know, I'm not picking up any copper...yet, which I assume is due to the hand lapping. |
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give the throat a good scrubbing with some copper solvent and see what you get out. Mine had plenty of copper fouling to remove at first. Accuracy improved significantly afterward.
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I agree about the looks and feel. I would also discount my early accuracy reports, more recent tests after removing a lot of copper from the leads and picking better wind conditions are showing better results. Still not quite moa, but close enough that until I get to test with high end factory ammo I am willing to guess my handloads just aren't up to better with the dies and such I'm using. Correcting that issue is on my priority list, first with some black hills and other match ammo, and hopefully soon with a better seating die and a single stage press.
It is also possible my goof in terms of break in did a bit of permanent damage. I'm not sure how likely that is, and if so, my error. I've tried to keep my reports as open and clear as possible, particularly in regard to the factors beyond the barrel that might have been at fault. I certainly wouldn't want to sour anyone on these, I'm very happy with mine and even if I can't beat 1.1" consistently with ten shot groups that is still excellent on a rifle this weight with a comp and shooting magazine fed rounds. Basically what I'm saying is that my reports are just MY results and include a lot of probable weak links hurting the group size, and I'm hearing plenty of folks are getting much better results from theirs so I'm inclined to keep removing potential weak links from my own shooting. ETA: Finally bit the bullet and ordered some BH red box 68 grains and some 60grain 22LR for the conversion. If anyone's interested in the BH, they have a really good price on it right now at a2g. |
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My real concern is that I really don't have the time to reload and would like to avoid it, but I'm also not crazy about the idea of $1 every time I squeeze the trigger. I'm going to try a variety of Black Hills and BVAC. I've read some really good things about BVAC's 55gr V-Max load. If it shoots well, it will be a blessing considering that it's around $10 a box of 20 at cheaperthandirt.
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Sweet setup Tony!
Make sure to let us know how it performs with the BH and BVAC. I checked out some of Molon's accuracy reports, regarding 75-77 grain loads, he was running around .9 to 1.1" with a variety of loads in several of his different setups, all top quality gear, including a 24" Krieger with a 5.56 Match chamber. |
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Ok, I took the new build out to the range today. I put about 50 rounds of M193 through it, cleaning the bore every 5th round. Since the barrel is supposed to be hand lapped, I figured that would be enough. Since my order of Black Hills ammo hasn't come in yet, I was limited to what I got in from BVAC. I started with their 55gr V-Max round. It shot about like it did out of my chrome lined HBAR. MOA or just a bit over. I then moved to the 69gr BVAC match. I think they use Sierra for these. It hated these. 1.5 MOA or so. I then moved to the BVAC 75gr Tactical rounds. I shot two rounds and thought that I had missed the target. I was shooting at a 1" paster at 100 yards and couldn't see a second hole. I then shot the other two rounds and still couldn't see any more holes. For a second, I freaked out thinking that something was really wrong. I ran inside and grabbed a spotting scope. When I took a look, it turned out that all of my rounds had landed. Almost one ragged hole. I was excited, but after that everything went down hill. I couldn't shoot anything under 1.5 MOA with any ammunition. I thought that it may have been copper fouling, so I used a copper solvent to clean the bore, but I never got it back. It just wouldn't shoot under 1.5 MOA.
Those first few groups showed real promise, but all of the following groups left me sorely disappointed. I came home and have it a good cleaning with copper solvent again and got no copper. I'm going to make one more trip with the barrel when the Black Hills comes in and I'll see, but I'm going to go ahead and order a White Oak barrel just to have it on hand. |
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Hey Tony, I wish it did better for you. I hope you get to run a set with the Black Hills before installing the WO and post the results.
Neither of mine seemed to care for the 69 SMK and for what it's worth I haven't seem much if any copper at all. I've had several instances of groups of 3 or 4 going into one ragged hole with various loads, only to open up on me with one or two and it's not the sight or trigger. My wife say's I'm getting old, slow, deaf and stupid but I'm not so sure it's the shooter, I don't know what's up. My best load so far is Black Hills 60 grain V-Max, so far it's running around 1.5 MOA. With the BH 77 SMK I'm averaging 2.1 MOA. But... I need to run several more sets of groups before I come up with a definite overall average. I've got 5-5 shot groups of the Hornady 75 grain practice load, if I toss the worst of the 5 and average up four I'm running 1.98 MOA. This is 50 yards, bench rested with a Leupold 3x9. Non free float and a Bill Springfield 3 pound trigger. This is my first AR so I don't have anything to compare it with. |
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I had the annoying experience yesterday of getting what would have been a .75moa group spoiled by a change in cheek weld while waiting for the wind to break. my mistake and it still came out to 1.4
that was with v max 60grains over 26.5 of varget. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Remy
If you got 9 into .75 MOA, that is very encouraging news! |
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Eight, but yeah, the other two are clearly on their own and are the two I fired after resting for a few minutes until the wind let up. Similar experience with a second group but the core was .9 on that one so I figured I'd just mention the better of the two. I'm still thinking on various solutions to help me keep this more consistent without going to a PRS style stock.
I had a lousy day yesterday though, I'm not sure if I got a lousy batch or my barrel just doesn't like the 68 grain black hills or maybe I just was not shooting well. I couldn't get it to stay consistent at all, 1.5-2" groups, which is the same as my plinking reloads turn in. Prvi 69grain match did the same. On the positive side, 60 grain "super sniper" 22's work better than the lighter stuff through the conversion with this barrel. They hit about a foot low but at 50 yards it was about a 4" group, which is a lot better than I had been getting with anything else. They're impressively quiet too, but the fumes are nasty. eta: Has anyone else had the Black Hills stuff change your poi dramatically? It was a few inches low and a few inches left at 100 compared to my reloads and most factory ammo in the same weight range. The elevation I'd understand but the windage just seemed weird so I figured I'd ask. |
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Remy
That's encouraging with the 8 shot group. I need to run several more groups of BH 60 VMAX myself. Neither of my uppers seemed to like the 69's, running 2.4 - 2.8 MOA, so I didn't bother with the 68's, as much as I wanted that weight to work. So far it seems to like 60-64 grain loads and then the 75-77's. I've had relatively decent results with the 75-77 grain loads excepting the BVAC 75 grain TAC load which is running just over 4 MOA. I haven't tried anything lighter then 60 grain in the new upper, but have some decent 55's and some BH Blue Box 52 grain Match Hollow Points I'm going to try. I haven't "zeroed" yet since I'm running so many different loads, I just shoot for groups, so I can't really comment on the shift with the Black Hills, other then to say, overall I haven't seen any drastic shifts in POI. |
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I just wanted to update my previous experience with the 16" SS 410 barrel. I had previously posted negative results with this barrel and feel that it's only fair to do an update.
I now have about 500 rounds down the pipe. Since I my last post on this subject, I've added a JP 3.5lb spring kit to my Geiselle SSA trigger and it worked wonders on the weight of the pull. For the last three hundred rounds or so the barrel has really seemed to settle in. The first comment that I have to make is regarding the BVAC ammunition that I was shooting. It was crap in this barrel. The 75gr did horribly. The 69gr did OK. I could get MOA groups with the 55gr V-Max, but there were frequent fliers. Since the BVAC ammo, I've tried Black Hills 52gr hollow points and 69 gr whatever they were. I've also tried Prvi 69gr. The expensive ammo I've tried is Hornady TAP in 55 and 75gr. The barrel will now shoot sub MOA with any of the ammunition that I've listed, if I'm on that day. I'm shooting four shot groups, mostly because my mag only holds four rounds and I'm still getting fatigued pretty quickly. I really need to quite smoking. I've also discovered that I'm a lousy shot and some of my problems may have been my fault. I can shoot good groups when I really take my time. When I'm not worried about shooting groups, I can hit anything that I put the crosshairs on. Shot shell hulls, Nilla wafers, golf balls and little 1" swingers at 100 yards. I now feel that the barrel was well worth the investment and that it is a quality barrel. I say this not because it is the most accurate barrel, but because it's performance remains consistent even after the barrel is so hot that I can't even touch it. |
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Just built my Daniel Defense upper with my awesome BCM 11.5" SS410 barrel. Range report whenever my approved Form 1 arrives. http://www.therearemanylikeit.com/bgo/sbr1/sbr-2.jpg http://www.therearemanylikeit.com/bgo/sbr1/sbr-3.jpg http://www.therearemanylikeit.com/bgo/sbr1/sbr-4.jpg http://www.therearemanylikeit.com/bgo/sbr1/sbr-5.jpg http://www.therearemanylikeit.com/bgo/sbr1/sbr-6.jpg I just finished my build with a BCM 11.5" SS410 barrel.....Haven't shot it yet, I'm still waiting on my backordered T-1/660 from Larue.............but here she is... |
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I don't know what it is but when my 18" BCM S/S barrel has been sitting for a while with a chrome CMT bolt in the chamber, it requires a surprising amount of force to pull the charging handle back. (it was headspaced)
I'm not sure what the round count required to break it in is, but my 11.5" BFH "beater" barrel from BCM is to date more accurate at 50 yards than the 18" I need to get the 18" out on a 300 yard range and see how it does with Prvi 75 grain. |
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An update on my 16” SS410 data.
I wasn’t happy with the results I was getting with my 16” SS410 and due to it’s reputation for accuracy, decided to purchase a complete 16” Rock River with a Stainless barrel and Wylde chamber, this model has a flash hider ,thin profile barrel (not the heavy varmint model) 2 stage NM trigger and a free float “Quad rail”, it’s the wifes gun…. Here are the results and conclusion. I got the new RR yesterday morning and headed straight for the range. I quickly zeroed with the 3x9x40 Leupold and fired 8-5 shot groups at 50 yards off a solid bench and bags in perfect 70 degree, calm weather, using Black Hills 60 grain VMAX RB Hornady 75 grain TAP Practice Privi Partizan 62 grain FMJBT Black Hills 77 grain SMK RB 2 groups each. According to On Target software, the average MOA of these groups is 1.89 MOA. Using the 16” SS410 this same ammo yields 1.92 MOA… I doubt if this is a coincidence, and the more likely explanation is that the shooter is a 1.9 MOA shooter and in all likelihood both guns will no doubt do better with a better shooter. This getting old business sucks… The 60 grain V-Max performed best at about 1.5 MOA, I got the same results with the SS410. I’ll update the BCM SS410 data when she (or another better shooter) gets around to shooting it… From here on out I’m going to “test for accuracy” at 100 yards rather the 50, I may be wrong but I have a feeling my 100 yard groups aren’t necessarily going to double in size, and if so this will improve the MOA. |
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I may be mistaken, but I do believe that the longer, heavier bullets need a bit of distance to stabilize. 50 yard groups may not give an indication of what the accuracy would have been like at 100 or more yards.
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It isn't uncommon to see better groups on a MOA basis further out, but it has nothing to do with the round stabilizing more as it goes. If it's not on track leaving the barrel it's not going to magically correct. Either a round is stable and on track when it leaves the muzzle or it is not. The reason you see better groups further out is aiming error being smaller on a percentage basis.
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OK, I continue to hone my skills as "precision" shooting is still pretty new to me. Since I'm not a big fan of paying a buck a round for ammo, I'm still shooting Prvi 75 gr match. I figured that I'd just do the best that I can with it. One of these days, I'll start loading my own, but for now, the Prvi will do.
If you saw my previous posts, you know that my initial impressions with the SS410 barrel were disappointing. Since then, I did some practicing and tried a bunch of different types of ammo. I had gotten to a point where I was getting some pretty good, MOA groups, but still felt that my rig could do better. This past weekend, I dropped in a new BCM bolt. I also pulled the barrel and lapped the upper to make sure that I had a good flat mating surface. Yes, it was uneven and took a little bit of lapping. I put it all together and took it out today. I fired five fouling shots and then shot for groups. I don't know if it was the lapping, the new bolt or because I'm getting better, but I was able to keep my groups well inside of a 1" target circle. I'm going to order another selection of ammunition and try again. It was raining today, so I didn't get to take pics. I'll do it next weekend. |
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Tony
That's interesting. I've read that making certain everything is "square" in that area is important to accuracy and I would have suspected that BCM would have taken this into account, when putting together what is supposed to be an accurate system. I think I'll put that on the to-do list for when I free-float it. I've run the 75 grain Privi Match through a RR with a 16" stainless and it didn't like it at all, I was getting 3-4 MOA, my buddy shooting a Stag 3L was getting just over 1MOA with the same load, I haven't tried it in the BCM yet. That same day I ran some Black Hills 52 grain HPM BB through the RR and got .65 MOA, all 5 in the same hole, which blew me away...it's all about matching the right bullet to the barrel. I haven't tried that load in the BCM yet. I can't afford this high end ammo business either, and my next project is going to dust off and get to work on reloading. The wife and I were doing "carbine drills" over the weekend, shooting standing, offhand at 15, 25 and 50 yards, taking turns with the BCM and RR, we were using 62 grain PPU and 55 PMC, the RR has a 3x9 Leopold and the BCM SS410 a Vortex Red Dot. Both did very well, but the BCM and R.D. turned out to be the favorite, due to the lighter weight and short range speed of the R.D. For that type of shooting accuracy was excellent with both guns. We saw a Coyote take out 2 antelope fawns and I was going to try and "even the score" using the RR with the 75 grain PPU Match, but we weren't able to get into position to take a shot. |
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I'm considering truing the receiver I have mine mounted on. It's about $30 for the tool and once I have that it's an easy operation worth doing on any build. I'll have to look around, all I've found so far are the kind you mount on a drill that insert completely into the receiver, using the bc's channel as a way to align things. I know there's another style but haven't had time to track it down yet. I'd rather a hand operated method personally, given the amount of material to be removed, and the desire for precision, it just seems more suitable.
I'm happy enough with my results with this barrel, but I do think there's something hindering it. Unfortunately, being in CT I have to have a pinned comp, which is always suspect when accuracy issues come up. I can't exactly remove it and test with a bare muzzle, then try various options and adjustments there. Regardless, it is more than good enough for practical use. A friend and I picked up some small MGM pop ups and at 100 it was no problem smacking them in the "head" every time. |
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Jitterbug, I have my ss 410 barrel in a home built rifle. The upper is either a bushmaster or rock river. I don't remember which. If you got the complete upper from BCM, I don't know that it wasn't squared. I do know that at least one of the more prominent industry partners has expressed the opinion that squaring the receiver is a waste of time. I got the lapping tool from midway and it was pretty cheap, so I figured what the heck. I didn't have to take much material off at all, but it certainly wasn't square when I started. I used a power drill and went very SLOWLY.
As for getting 3 or 4 MOA out of your SS 410 with Prvi, I don't know what to say. I get groups much better than that with Silver Bear 62gr hollow point. In an effort to stay on the cheap, I just ordered some Hornady 75gr training ammo. I've read good things about it, so I'll post something next week. BTW, I just added a Vortex flash hider. It's supposed to help with accuracy. I'll see next weekend. |
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I'm getting decent results with the .223 Hornady 75 grain TAP practice ammo, the SS410 is running 2.3 MOA and the RR stainless is running 1.65 MOA. The PPU 75 Match ran 3.5 MOA in the RR so I settled on the Hornady load, it will do until I can start reloading. I didn't bother benching the PPU Match in the SS410.
Black Hills 77 SMK ran 2.1 MOA in the SS410, which is good, but it's just too pricey for my budget. Averages of multiple, 5 shot groups, off a solid bench, 3x9 scope. I don't let things get really hot. Lately the wife and I have been working on rapid fire drills, shooting off hand, standing position out to 100 yards. We're using PMC 55 grain and PPU 62 grain FMJ's. The RR has a 3x9 Leupold on it and the BCM SS410 is running a Vortex Red Dot. The SS410 setup has emerged the favorite for speed, handling and accuracy...the wife is referring to it has "her gun".Last time out she shot a perfect rapid fire, 50-5x score at 15 yards. Later this summer we're going to start running them out to 300 yards or so. These are really fun guns. |
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