Posted: 5/31/2011 7:38:51 AM EDT
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Hey guys. I'm a long time Colt fan, since my dad bought an R6601 in 1991 when I was 6. I have that R6601 and also an LE6920 and an SP6940 now. I'd like to stick with the brand and want to do an all Colt M16A4 clone. My local gun store has a CTM6601C new for $999. It's an A2 upper, like the R6601, so I'd need to find a flat-top upper or maybe steal the one off of my LE6920, but either way I should be able to do it.
My question is this: I've tried finding info but it seems elusive: The compensator is held on with 2 pins. Is the barrel threaded under the comp? I have a feeling someone will say no, just slotted for taper pins FSB style, so I'd have to get it threaded. Hopefully this isn't the case and there are 1/2x28 threads hiding under there! |
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maybe steal the one off of my LE6920, but either way I should be able to do it. sorry that not a good idea since the 6920 receiver has the cuts for M4feedramps and your 6601 barrel doesnt have those cuts. you need a receiver without M4feedramps. take a look at the pic below: you're now in the top-left situation and will end in the low-left situation if you install the 6920 receiver. 
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My question is this: I've tried finding info but it seems elusive: The compensator is held on with 2 pins. Is the barrel threaded under the comp? no it not. send it to ADCO and have it threaded. it's and easy job...I've done the same to my 6601. btw, you should consider selling the whole upper and replace it with an original M16A4 complete upper 
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maybe steal the one off of my LE6920, but either way I should be able to do it. sorry that not a good idea since the 6920 receiver has the cuts for M4feedramps and your 6601 barrel doesnt have those cuts. you need a receiver without M4feedramps. take a look at the pic below: you're now in the top-left situation and will end in the low-left situation if you install the 6920 receiver. http://ar15barrels.com/tech/feedramps2.jpg Quoted:
My question is this: I've tried finding info but it seems elusive: The compensator is held on with 2 pins. Is the barrel threaded under the comp? no it not. send it to ADCO and have it threaded. it's and easy job...I've done the same to my 6601. btw, you should consider selling the whole upper and replace it with an original M16A4 complete upper
Oh yeah, I meant to mention that I'm aware of the feed ramps and would do what was necessary to ensure that I had the right parts. My dad has a lightly used Colt HBAR 1/7 20" barrel with the M4 cuts, this would go onto the 6920 upper if I went that route. The rifle that that barrel came on now has a Lilja barrel. |
| Don't break up your factory guns. If you want to do something custom like a M16A4 clone, then buy the parts. You can buy a real deal M16A4 barreled upper and then slap it on any lower. That's what I would do if I were you. It might cost a little bit more in the end, but you'll also have a factory barreled upper which more than makes up for the price difference IMO. |
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I have a MT6700 and wanted to do the same thing, so I bought a M16A2 barrel and replaced the original hbar barrel with it. The original Hbar
was sent off to be threaded after the barrel swap. When the barrel returned I decided to use it instead because it was a great tack driver vs the A2 barrel. |
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Don't break up your factory guns. If you want to do something custom like a M16A4 clone, then buy the parts. You can buy a real deal M16A4 barreled upper and then slap it on any lower. That's what I would do if I were you. It might cost a little bit more in the end, but you'll also have a factory barreled upper which more than makes up for the price difference IMO. Where can you find a M16A4 barreled upper? I am searching myself |
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Don't break up your factory guns. If you want to do something custom like a M16A4 clone, then buy the parts. You can buy a real deal M16A4 barreled upper and then slap it on any lower. That's what I would do if I were you. It might cost a little bit more in the end, but you'll also have a factory barreled upper which more than makes up for the price difference IMO. Where can you find a M16A4 barreled upper? I am searching myself Here's one on autoweapons.com. They are way over priced, but it's an option... http://www.autoweapons.com/photos07/sep/coltupp.html Also they can be found on GB and here on the EE. If it were me though, I would shoot Dennis Todd and email - [email protected]. He can get hard to find barrled uppers. You'll pay a premium with him as well, however it will not be nearly as much as autoweapons.com (at least in my experience.) HTH!
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Don't break up your factory guns. If you want to do something custom like a M16A4 clone, then buy the parts. You can buy a real deal M16A4 barreled upper and then slap it on any lower. That's what I would do if I were you. It might cost a little bit more in the end, but you'll also have a factory barreled upper which more than makes up for the price difference IMO. Where can you find a M16A4 barreled upper? I am searching myself Here's one on autoweapons.com. They are way over priced, but it's an option... For $1300, I wouldn't even halfway consider that. They also kill me with that "e-mail for price" nonsense. |
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With the overwhelming success of the Colt World War 1 and World War 2 1911 repro's along with the Series 70 repro, You would think Colt could see that making a Vietnam era Repro M16 and a Civilian clone of the M16a2 and A4 would be a MASSIVE HUGE hit.
Im sorry, I am making sense! Seriously Colt, go back to what made you the standard in the first place. Bring back the woodsman, Python, Detective Special, Diamondback, and so on. If we LOVED the repro 1911's, we are going to love a Vietnam era Civilian "M16" and Civilian "A2 or A4 Government M16" We love the Military guns Colt, we really really do. And none of this 1/9 twist crap....1/7 please! COME ON COLT, WAKE UP!!!!! Colt, check out the popularity of the Retro Forum! Check out the prices people are paying for Pythons and Retro AR parts for their Vietnam build. All the Vietnam Vets are retiring and they would probably buy one as well. |
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With the overwhelming success of the Colt World War 1 and World War 2 1911 repro's along with the Series 70 repro, You would think Colt could see that making a Vietnam era Repro M16 and a Civilian clone of the M16a2 and A4 would be a MASSIVE HUGE hit. Im sorry, I am making sense! Seriously Colt, go back to what made you the standard in the first place. Bring back the woodsman, Python, Detective Special, Diamondback, and so on. If we LOVED the repro 1911's, we are going to love a Vietnam era Civilian "M16" and Civilian "A2 or A4 Government M16" We love the Military guns Colt, we really really do. And none of this 1/9 twist crap....1/7 please! COME ON COLT, WAKE UP!!!!! Colt, check out the popularity of the Retro Forum! Check out the prices people are paying for Pythons and Retro AR parts for their Vietnam build. All the Vietnam Vets are retiring and they would probably buy one as well. The "retro" stuff is a pretty niche market. The appeal is nowhere close to as broad as 16" and shorter rifles. |
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With the overwhelming success of the Colt World War 1 and World War 2 1911 repro's along with the Series 70 repro, You would think Colt could see that making a Vietnam era Repro M16 and a Civilian clone of the M16a2 and A4 would be a MASSIVE HUGE hit. Im sorry, I am making sense! Seriously Colt, go back to what made you the standard in the first place. Bring back the woodsman, Python, Detective Special, Diamondback, and so on. If we LOVED the repro 1911's, we are going to love a Vietnam era Civilian "M16" and Civilian "A2 or A4 Government M16" We love the Military guns Colt, we really really do. And none of this 1/9 twist crap....1/7 please! COME ON COLT, WAKE UP!!!!! Colt, check out the popularity of the Retro Forum! Check out the prices people are paying for Pythons and Retro AR parts for their Vietnam build. All the Vietnam Vets are retiring and they would probably buy one as well. man. i dont mean this as mean spirited or sarcastic but you need to wake up do you know how much it would cost to hand make pythons again? the only reson they sell now is they are no longer made. no one was buying them back then, thats why they stopped making them. few people want a rifle that can not be modified as a force multiplier except a few nostalgic types. it aint gonna happen |
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[/quote]man. i dont mean this as mean spirited or sarcastic
but you need to wake up do you know how much it would cost to hand make pythons again? the only reson they sell now is they are no longer made. no one was buying them back then, thats why they stopped making them. few people want a rifle that can not be modified as a force multiplier except a few nostalgic types. it aint gonna happen[/quote] Thanks Shawn for the reply and yes it seems a little mean spirited, but I am a big boy and can take it LOL. I would like to see data that made you come to that conclusion that only a few people would want that rifle. Springfield cannot keep their M1A's in stock. The CMP is running out of Garand's. The Colt WWII and WWI repro's sold out quickley. You read the traffic on the retro forums and the posts/internet traffic is high there. Colt already makes an A1 upper (i.e. 6450). I can't imagine it would cost that much to order bulk pencil thin barrels and other parts. With all kindness sir (and Ive read numerous posts by you and you are very educated and informative). I really mean that Shawn, I respect your posts here. I think several people are underestimating the demand of such a rifle. People yearn for the old school. I understand the Pythons were a pain to make. Maybe they didn't sell well then, but it seems like they would make a comeback. I would order one, thats for sure. I am 31 and a LEO. All the older officers I know complain non stop about not having the woodsman (the gun they grew up with), Pythons, that rifle they had in Nam. Those people that grew up when Colt was the STANDARD miss those guns. They have those fat retirement accounts now and I bet would drop some coin on the good old guns. The baby boomers are retiring in record numbers and they got money to burn. Look at Smith and Wesson with their classic series. They are doing pretty good with sales. Colt should follow. I mean, the good ole dect. special? Who wouldn't want that? Both you and I do not have solid data to really solidify our points of view. I admit my point of view is my gut feeling along with other people I talk too. I guess my friends want them and the people you know just don't. I get that. I wish Colt did a study and polled several people on this topic and maybe that would settle it. I can wish all day long though right? And lastly Shawn, you can modify anything on the AR platform, even the nostalgic rifles. Im not sure why you would want to do that. It would seem easier to buy a base rifle and modify one of those. It would be like modifying a WWII repro 1911a1...whats the point of that? Mark something Military and the general public usually wants it..... |
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man. i dont mean this as mean spirited or sarcastic
but you need to wake up do you know how much it would cost to hand make pythons again? the only reson they sell now is they are no longer made. no one was buying them back then, thats why they stopped making them. few people want a rifle that can not be modified as a force multiplier except a few nostalgic types. it aint gonna happen[/quote] Thanks Shawn for the reply and yes it seems a little mean spirited, but I am a big boy and can take it LOL. I would like to see data that made you come to that conclusion that only a few people would want that rifle. Springfield cannot keep their M1A's in stock. The CMP is running out of Garand's. The Colt WWII and WWI repro's sold out quickley. You read the traffic on the retro forums and the posts/internet traffic is high there. Colt already makes an A1 upper (i.e. 6450). I can't imagine it would cost that much to order bulk pencil thin barrels and other parts. With all kindness sir (and Ive read numerous posts by you and you are very educated and informative). I really mean that Shawn, I respect your posts here. I think several people are underestimating the demand of such a rifle. People yearn for the old school. I understand the Pythons were a pain to make. Maybe they didn't sell well then, but it seems like they would make a comeback. I would order one, thats for sure. I am 31 and a LEO. All the older officers I know complain non stop about not having the woodsman (the gun they grew up with), Pythons, that rifle they had in Nam. Those people that grew up when Colt was the STANDARD miss those guns. They have those fat retirement accounts now and I bet would drop some coin on the good old guns. The baby boomers are retiring in record numbers and they got money to burn. Look at Smith and Wesson with their classic series. They are doing pretty good with sales. Colt should follow. I mean, the good ole dect. special? Who wouldn't want that? Both you and I do not have solid data to really solidify our points of view. I admit my point of view is my gut feeling along with other people I talk too. I guess my friends want them and the people you know just don't. I get that. I wish Colt did a study and polled several people on this topic and maybe that would settle it. I can wish all day long though right? And lastly Shawn, you can modify anything on the AR platform, even the nostalgic rifles. Im not sure why you would want to do that. It would seem easier to buy a base rifle and modify one of those. It would be like modifying a WWII repro 1911a1...whats the point of that? Mark something Military and the general public usually wants it.....[/quote] no doubt a lot would want them. but few would really want to pay the extra cost for a special run, they woudl find a reason to bitch. twist rate is 1/9 or 1/7. lower was A2 not real A1 profile roll mark wouldnt be right etc etc etc. the cost of retooling up for them would be high as hell im sure. and not as many want them as you think. go to all the gun forums and just see how big their retro section is. compare it to the number of guys who want flat top carbines... sure the WW1 and WW2 1911s sell. because they are limited and people think they will be worth a lot. Not cause there is a huge demand for them because of their fighting prowess. look at the colt cowboy as an example. to me it shows what happends perfectly. same with the python. if they came back. the wonder of having a gun to gloat over that others cant get, goes away. yeah they are the finest revolvers ever. but they set on shelves when made. and few gave a crap until it went away everyone whinned for a easy to find cheaper SSA repro. once they got it, they all bitched, found a reason NOT to like it. few sold and it went away. it was a fine gun, but purists fuck stuff up I wish we could get SP1 again. I like them as much as the next guy. but only if i could get a SP1 with a 1/7 twist so i can use modern ammo to take full advantage of its capabilities. and there lies the rub. I MAYBE would buy a pure clone just to have one. but likely not if it was 1/12 and most 1st time buyers and guys who buy colt rifles want a modern combat gun. n you dont have to like it, hell. I dont really like it. but thats pretty much the way it is. and I have kinda did some informal research on it a while ago cause it dove tailed with something else I was pondering at the time anyway. im not trying to shoot you down or win some kinda argument. Im just trying help people see clearly adn not be to let down over something thats not gonna happen unless colt gets so huge and successful they can make anything they want an ot care if it sells yeah a man can wish and dream. i think about all kinds of shit i wish they would make all day. But I know sits not gonna happen and I dont feel a need to begg them online or begrudge them for it. for all i know, I may be the only guy in the world that wants a M4 with a pocket pussy attachment for the rail. kinda doubt it though |
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What would an A1 bring to the table that an A4 wouldn't? Is it just the "retro" factor? I understand wanting a brand new full size rifle- but why A1 ? I think thats it they just like the retro factor. when looked at honestly the A1 is more of a handicap then anything. unless having a light rifles is the mission 
adn if thats the only pro for the thing. the lightweight flat top carbine is a lot better and even has a 1/7 twist just like original 1911/1911A1s its just the triumph of nostalgia over common sense |
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What would an A1 bring to the table that an A4 wouldn't? Is it just the "retro" factor? I understand wanting a brand new full size rifle- but why A1 ? I think thats it they just like the retro factor. when looked at honestly the A1 is more of a handicap then anything. unless having a light rifles is the mission
adn if thats the only pro for the thing. the lightweight flat top carbine is a lot better and even has a 1/7 twist just like original 1911/1911A1s its just the triumph of nostalgia over common sense I disagree with Shawn. I am an LEO and we use the A1 uppers extensively. It is a perfect patrol rifle. The sights are set at a hundred yards and several master firearms instructors has also mentioned that the A1 platform is the perfect, simple, rugged rear sight for a battle rifle. I believe we have over 250 of the A1 20" M16 rifles through a government program (they are free) on the street between the big four departments in my county. I know of at least two officer involved shootings with the rifle and it works perfectly. If LEO's are using the A1 uppers and stake their lives on it, then I feel its worth more than the "Retro Feel." Its proven and I recommend trying it. We get caught up too often with what new, so it must be better. If not one, but numerous master firearms instructors as well as numerous officers use these, then I would take note. I have qualified just fine with that sight set up and I honestly have never used sight adjustment under the peep sight on the rear. I only use the adjustment on the side and if I need to move the point of impact up or down, I adjust the front sight post. I think the only people needing to use the adjustment under the rear peep sight are match shooters at a competition. I use the Colt 6450 in 9mm and I love the A1 rear sight. |
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What would an A1 bring to the table that an A4 wouldn't? Is it just the "retro" factor? I understand wanting a brand new full size rifle- but why A1 ? I think thats it they just like the retro factor. when looked at honestly the A1 is more of a handicap then anything. unless having a light rifles is the mission
adn if thats the only pro for the thing. the lightweight flat top carbine is a lot better and even has a 1/7 twist just like original 1911/1911A1s its just the triumph of nostalgia over common sense I disagree with Shawn. I am an LEO and we use the A1 uppers extensively. It is a perfect patrol rifle. The sights are set at a hundred yards and several master firearms instructors has also mentioned that the A1 platform is the perfect, simple, rugged rear sight for a battle rifle. I believe we have over 250 of the A1 20" M16 rifles through a government program (they are free) on the street between the big four departments in my county. I know of at least two officer involved shooting with the rifle and it works perfectly. If LEO's are using the A1 uppers and stake their lives on it, then I feel its worth more than the "Retro Feel." Its proven. I have qualified just fine with that sight set up and I honestly have never used sight adjustment under the peep sight on the rear. I only use the adjustment on the side and if I need to move the point of impact up or down, I adjust the front sight post. I think the only people needing to use the adjustment under the rear peep sight are match shooters at a competition. The reason you are using them is because they are free, not because they are the best option. If an agency had to pay for new rifles, do you really think they would select an A1 over an A4 when the price would be almost the same? Not a chance. As for the retro feel being "proven." Sure an A1 is proven. But an A4 is better and an M4 is even better than that. Do you really think a 20" fence post with iron sights only is preferable to a 14.5" M4 for patrol work? No way. A1s are obsolete which is why they are pawned off through the program that gave you yours. The Lee Enfield and M1 Garand is "proven" as well. Do you want one in the rack of your patrol car? |
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What would an A1 bring to the table that an A4 wouldn't? Is it just the "retro" factor? I understand wanting a brand new full size rifle- but why A1 ? I think thats it they just like the retro factor. when looked at honestly the A1 is more of a handicap then anything. unless having a light rifles is the mission
adn if thats the only pro for the thing. the lightweight flat top carbine is a lot better and even has a 1/7 twist just like original 1911/1911A1s its just the triumph of nostalgia over common sense I disagree with Shawn. I am an LEO and we use the A1 uppers extensively. It is a perfect patrol rifle. The sights are set at a hundred yards and several master firearms instructors has also mentioned that the A1 platform is the perfect, simple, rugged rear sight for a battle rifle. I believe we have over 250 of the A1 20" M16 rifles through a government program (they are free) on the street between the big four departments in my county. I know of at least two officer involved shooting with the rifle and it works perfectly. If LEO's are using the A1 uppers and stake their lives on it, then I feel its worth more than the "Retro Feel." Its proven. I have qualified just fine with that sight set up and I honestly have never used sight adjustment under the peep sight on the rear. I only use the adjustment on the side and if I need to move the point of impact up or down, I adjust the front sight post. I think the only people needing to use the adjustment under the rear peep sight are match shooters at a competition. The reason you are using them is because they are free, not because they are the best option. If an agency had to pay for new rifles, do you really think they would select an A1 over an A4 when the price would be almost the same? Not a chance. As for the retro feel being "proven." Sure an A1 is proven. But an A4 is better and an M4 is even better than that. Do you really think a 20" fence post with iron sights only is preferable to a 14.5" M4 for patrol work? No way. A1s are obsolete which is why they are pawned off through the program that gave you yours. The Lee Enfield and M1 Garand is "proven" as well. Do you want one in the rack of your patrol car? If they let me carry a M1 Garand....I sure would. I enjoy the A1...to each their own. We even have M14 rifles through the government program as well. One of the best rifles I have ever shot. How is the A4 better? I am not doubting you. I really do not know what makes it better? Are the barrels more accurate (other than the twist ratio?) What makes it "better". I just haven't really compared the two because I am used to the A1. I understand the practicality of a 14.5" barrel, but the rifle length sight picture is pretty nice. I am old school and like iron sights. We have a deputy that has everything on his rifle. An EoTech, the 3X magnifier, Surefire Scout Light, Tango Down grip....and guess what. The batteries were dead on his EoTech, the sling broke and he had to qualify on his iron sights. And he barely qualified. Iron sights is the way to go in my opinion. Simple is better,,,also in my opinion. But to each their own. I have experience using these first hand when it counts and I am plenty happy....because it is dependable. But again, to each their own. What scenarios other than responding to hot calls with armed subjects will an A4 do better at in a civilians hands? Just curious? These new A4 rifles are probably more accurate than the person who shoots it a few times a year is. Its probably way more advanced then what the average shooter needs it for in the first place. I am not trying to pick a fight and if something will work better, then I probably will want it. But these rifles are like 50 years old, stay stored in hot trunks of cars, rarely get the proper attention is deserves and keeps on trucking just fine. Thats comfort folks. |
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The A4 is better because it has a flat top. If you want to use irons you can use irons but you also have the flexibility to use optics.
EOtechs are well known for battery issues, tell him to get an aimpoint. Sounds like he didn't have his shit squared away if he had that many problems. Simple is better until it's not. Selecting quality equipment and installing it correctly goes a long way to alleviate issues. As I said before, not many people are going to select an A1 over an M4 for serious use, you are in the minority here. The M4 is a better platform. It's an evolution and progression. I would guess that M4s would outsell A1s on at LEAST a 25 - 1 basis, probably more. From a business standpoint it doesn't make any sense for Colt to produce them. |
| I wonder if Colt sold them at maybe $200 dollars off the A4, what would happen? Although we both know they wont, so its all speculation. I think Nodak Spud is doing pretty good with their retro line, I might have to order from them. If it wasn't making them good money, I bet they wouldn't be selling them. |