[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How does ADM get away with it? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/16/2009 5:52:44 PM EDT
Copying LaRue's products, that is.
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Both are good mounts. The ADM does not violate LT patent(s) on the throw lever, otherwise we would have heard from someone by now. My personal preference is for the LT mount but there are many ADM throw levers in use by SOCOM and they do not break. Obviously lots of LT stuff (optic mounts, etc) in use by those folks too and they keep coming back for more.
I am not enamored with the way ADM designed the mount (specifically the rings). I do think they "borrowed" a lot from LT. Frankly I prefer horizontal split rings, but I'm weird like that. Regardless, it isn't a patent violation. LT's best option is to continue to make good mounts, continue to have good CS and continue to update their products and the market will decide the winner. |
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My grandfather has been in a lawsuit with the local scheming land developer for 10 years. The guy is the type that gets a bunch of people together to invest and then keeps the money and never develops the land. He is friends with enough people in the right places that he gets away with it. Part of the dispute has to do with surface water rights to a local private lake. The original judgment says that gramp's people get lake rights. The d-bag won't allow them to get on the lake. New judge (original judge was a friend of d-bag and awarded him everything, much was reversed on appeal, now it is going to be reheard) says, "You have to let the members access the lake." He won't. People say, "That is illegal, he can't do that!" Well, he is doing it. He is friends with the sheriff and will make sure you are escorted away by him if you try to get to the lake.
Fact of the matter is that shady people get away with a lot because they are willing to do things that decent people aren't. If ADM is not breaking any laws, what is going to stop them? Hell, even if they were breaking laws it can be tough to stop people who have the will. ADM is willing to accept the fact that a small % of informed gun owners know they are copying LT because most people outside of this forum don't know, and money is evidently more important than their "good name." |
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ADM: http://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/img/product/95dff3640a2cf11e45ca64614ebc4852.jpg LaRue: http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/catalog/P1012070.JPG Shameless bastards.  WOW. That one is an obvious ripoff. They even put the little bit of extra picatinny rail on the back. The only thing that makes it not identical in appearance is the fact that it has one more slot on that short rail, and it has more slots overall. I realize their mounting doohicky lever thing works as a cross bolt and LaRue's works as an actual clamping device against the side of the rail, but damn. That's the only noticeable difference, and you can only see that if you look for it and know what you're looking for. I mean, if someone else invents a product like yours, but the new one works slightly differently and looks different, it's not a total ripoff. When they mimic yours down to where if you squint, they look the same, and they do the same thing, it's blatant patent infringement. If he hasn't already, I hope LaRue lawyers up on this one. Do they use Chinese reverse engineers, or are theirs domestically trained, you think? |
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ADM: http://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/img/product/95dff3640a2cf11e45ca64614ebc4852.jpg LaRue: http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/catalog/P1012070.JPG Shameless bastards. Hush your mouth... ADM would never do that... |
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Also, why does MidwayUSA (was seeing if a LaRue search turned up this new ADM mount - they don't offer it yet) sell the LT-110 for almost twice what it sells for straight from LaRue ($183 vs $110)?
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=356732 WTF? It's the only actual LaRue product turned up by a "larue" search at Midway. Did they ask ADM to make the new mount, so they could stop selling the LT-110s and be 100% free of LaRue products, or something? Edit: Oops, I overlooked the "LT66" - should be LT-660, I think. It's $115 at Midway vs $98 at LaRue. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=240004 |
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Why would anybody buy LaRue from anybody other than LaRue?, just asking. I've bought all of my LaRue gear used for much less. It's hard to find someone wanting to part with LaRue gear, it seems, but I have bought two BUISs and one LT-110 riser so far. Each one has set me back about 75% of retail from LaRue prices. I'm looking for a used Eotech mount right now... 
ETA: If I was buying new, I would surely get it from LaRue directly for the freebies. I'm trying to keep the resale value up for LaRue used stuff, though, to do them a favor.
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Why would anybody buy LaRue from anybody other than LaRue?, just asking. I've bought all of my LaRue gear used for much less. It's hard to find someone wanting to part with LaRue gear, it seems, but I have bought two BUISs and one LT-110 riser so far. Each one has set me back about 75% of retail from LaRue prices. I'm looking for a used Eotech mount right now...
ETA: If I was buying new, I would surely get it from LaRue directly for the freebies. I'm trying to keep the resale value up for LaRue used stuff, though, to do them a favor. I meant new, should have been more specific. |
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ADM: http://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/img/product/95dff3640a2cf11e45ca64614ebc4852.jpg Sweet! I like that mount. Who has these in stock? |
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Quoted: Quoted: ADM: http://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/img/product/95dff3640a2cf11e45ca64614ebc4852.jpg Sweet! I like that mount. Who has these in stock?  |
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After reading all of this again, I think either LaRue is already undertaking legal action or doesn't care. If LaRue doesn't care, I guess we shouldn't either.
I think I'll go reverse-engineer a Ford truck, put some cutout holes in the doors for extra air flow and less weight, change the engine to a coal-burning steam engine and put my logo on it. I mean, it works differently under the hood, and it has a different logo on it, so I should be okay, right? |
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ADM: http://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/img/product/95dff3640a2cf11e45ca64614ebc4852.jpg Sweet! I like that mount. Who has these in stock? lol. 
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Both are good mounts. The ADM does not violate LT patent(s) on the throw lever, otherwise we would have heard from someone by now. My personal preference is for the LT mount but there are many ADM throw levers in use by SOCOM and they do not break. Obviously lots of LT stuff (optic mounts, etc) in use by those folks too and they keep coming back for more. I am not enamored with the way ADM designed the mount (specifically the rings). I do think they "borrowed" a lot from LT. Frankly I prefer horizontal split rings, but I'm weird like that. Regardless, it isn't a patent violation. LT's best option is to continue to make good mounts, continue to have good CS and continue to update their products and the market will decide the winner. Hmmm, I think I get around, but I am unaware of "there are many ADM throw levers in use by SOCOM". As for breaking, IIRC, I've seen threads about busted ADM mounts ... So what's the SOCOM story ? 
ML ETA - I've lost count of how many NV devices we got spec'd on ... it's a metric shi*t-ton. One very large OEM quietly called and said they had bought samples of all mounts, and all but ours failed their tests. They moved over to us to stop the defective materials calls. When the mount breaks, those $10,000 gizmos are pretty much useless, and result in a phone-con starting with "WTFO?". Remember this, if a soldier gets half a shot at a sh*t-head, we are obsessed with our part of the project performing as advertised. |
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The QD vertical grip by Tango Down for the Insight pressure switch. Like I said, I get around. " This one ? " I like that advertising blurb (copied below) that insinuates that adjustment on a critical mission very well could be required and that it's lucky one needs no tools to achieve said necessary adjustment. Our all-metal combat-proven mounts are on the highest dollar clip-on items in theater ... 100,000+ levers later, we know damn well that in-the-field adjustment will never be required. Metal just doesn't seem to creep as much as plastic does under pressure.
Next, the adjustment system for fitting ANY type of rail, from authentic MIL-STD 1913 to commercial Weaver type is KISS compliant. Adjustment is accomplished in a flash, with no tools. It is simple, elegant, light and strong. No more fumbling for wrenches that may or- may not be in your kit while you're on a mountain top in Afghanistan. All hardware is TYPE III hard coat anodized, or given an anti-glare black Melonite coating for superior corrosion protection.
ETA - " Speaking of 6 ft. Drop Tests " |
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Strange thing, the only wrench missing from both my wrench sets is 3/8" and I lost the LT one that came with my LT-152...Probably because I use 3/8" wrenches so often. However I do not live on a mountaintop in Afghanistan...
But I do have a multitool...it works fine, though I don't swap the Aimpoint from rifle to rifle very often. But yes, there are a number of those grips in the hands of SOCOM. Exactly how many, I don't know. But it is not an insubstantial number. Not 100,000, though. 
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I don't have any railed forends at the moment...And I have to run, no time to upload to Youtube... Same grip...screws kept breaking... A total of 1 minute of "whackage" http://www.545ar.com/DSCF2739.MP4 http://www.545ar.com/DSCF2740.MP4 http://www.545ar.com/DSCF2741.MP4 |
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I don't have any railed forends at the moment...And I have to run, no time to upload to Youtube... Same grip...screws kept breaking... A total of 1 minute of "whackage" http://www.545ar.com/DSCF2739.MP4 http://www.545ar.com/DSCF2740.MP4 http://www.545ar.com/DSCF2741.MP4 Uh, hmmm, double-backed tape might have held that a little better.
ETA - Watching those drywall screws so easily snap-off, reminds me of why we don't go the crossbolt route. 
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Does anybody know how to play MP4 files? 
I don't want to download QuickTime because of all the fricking popups asking if I want to install updates (I did away with all Apple software because of that), but that seems to be the only way people online recommend viewing them. I ws waiting for Mark to say something, but he's apparently more tech-savvy than me when it comes to this, since he already posted now.
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Does anybody know how to play MP4 files?
I don't want to download QuickTime because of all the fricking popups asking if I want to install updates (I did away with all Apple software because of that), but that seems to be the only way people online recommend viewing them. I ws waiting for Mark to say something, but he's apparently more tech-savvy than me when it comes to this, since he already posted now. Wrong, I ain't tech savvy ... I went to another computer in the facility.
Speaking of which, I haven't used AOL for a couple of years, but I am so tired of that AOL update thing popping up. 
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the whole wrench thing is so fucking obnoxious i can't stand it
i have several dozen LT mounts, and i have YET to have one loosen up on me after adjusting it. the same multitool that is used to adjust their flathead screw can be used to adjust a 3/8" nut then the response is "but but but... you don't need a tool with ADM... you can use a coin! or rifle round!" OR I could buy a mount that never loosens the fuck up in the first fucking place... |
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Same grip...screws kept breaking... A total of 1 minute of "whackage" Stupid QuickTime download... oh well. You screwed the short rail down to the wood table/bench with decking screws and then beat on a stubby Tango Down VFG attached to the short rail? I would expect the screws to break too before a stubby grip broke. There's very little leverage to break the mount that way. It would be more impressive if you had a "normal-length" TD VFG and an actual rail in a vise that didn't give at all, but you play the deck you're dealt, I guess. If you don't have a similar product to make a similar test, you don't have it. Still, that was a good parody. I give it a 9 out of 10 for photographic quality and similarity of appearance. 
ETA: I don't see what whacking on a grip with a hammer simulates anyway, unless you use your AR as a hammer for railroad spikes. If you slammed it in metal door a few times or let an elephant sit/stand on it, I would be impressed. It reminds me of the Tapco videos where they perfectly toss the rifle in the dirt on the magazine's floorplate over and over to make it look indestructible. Yeah, now take it out of the rifle, turn it over, and drop it loaded on its plastic feed lips. Crack.
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Same grip...screws kept breaking... A total of 1 minute of "whackage" Stupid QuickTime download... oh well. You screwed the short rail down to the wood table/bench with decking screws and then beat on a stubby Tango Down VFG attached to the short rail? I would expect the screws to break too before a stubby grip broke. There's very little leverage to break the mount that way. It would be more impressive if you had a "normal-length" TD VFG and an actual rail in a vise that didn't give at all, but you play the deck you're dealt, I guess. If you don't have a similar product to make a similar test, you don't have it. Still, that was a good parody. I give it a 9 out of 10 for photographic quality and similarity of appearance.
ETA: I don't see what whacking on a grip with a hammer simulates anyway, unless you use your AR as a hammer for railroad spikes. If you slammed it in metal door a few times or let an elephant sit/stand on it, I would be impressed. It reminds me of the Tapco videos where they perfectly toss the rifle in the dirt on the magazine's floorplate over and over to make it look indestructible. Yeah, now take it out of the rifle, turn it over, and drop it loaded on its plastic feed lips. Crack.Our video was in response to an alleged user (photos posted by a friend of a freind of a cousin on another gun forum) who claimed he broke our FUG on an obstacle during a shooting session. The claim was that our material wasn't strong enough. We weren't thinking about the mount's performance at all. In fact, mount failure didn't even enter our minds. |
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well this is what i have to add to the discussion: you dont see chicom knockoffs of ADM mounts anywhere do ya? ...even the commies know they're crap compared to LaRue Hmmm, that's an interesting observation, and gosh, I would expect them to run right out and pay the commies to knock their own stuff off after they read and come to grips (no pun) with your post. 
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Uploaded them to youtube for those with MP4 issues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEMcDM3bTWU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jlQtubrEvY |
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Uploaded one to youtube for those with MP4 issues http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEMcDM3bTWU Could we see a test where a LaRue Mount and an ADM Mount are adjusted to where the levers are tighter than recommended and then rotated into the locking position... |
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Could we see a test where a LaRue Mount and an ADM Mount are adjusted to where the levers are tighter than recommended and then rotated into the locking position... HAHA. Yeah, I think the upper receiver would get its finish rubbed on the LT and your finger would hurt when closing it, and the ADM would take a dump because of the crossbolt design getting all that leverage on it. |
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Could we see a test where a LaRue Mount and an ADM Mount are adjusted to where the levers are tighter than recommended and then rotated into the locking position... HAHA. Yeah, I think the upper receiver would get its finish rubbed on the LT and your finger would hurt when closing it, and the ADM would take a dump because of the crossbolt design getting all that leverage on it. I don't have a FUG nor the funds to buy one (nor am I begging for one), but I'll try hammering the throw lever closed with the ADM. |
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Uploaded them to youtube for those with MP4 issues http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEMcDM3bTWU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jlQtubrEvY When all else fails, get a bigger hammer.
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Uploaded them to youtube for those with MP4 issues http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEMcDM3bTWU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jlQtubrEvY " Are you getting this camera guy ? " - - Sham-wow Vince J/K, but havin' fun.
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