[ARCHIVED THREAD] - PA10 buffer length problem (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 10/10/2014 6:05:54 PM EDT
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I've built a 308 AR using the PA10 receivers and classic lower build kit. The BCG in the build is from Aero Precision. The bcg measures 4 5/8" from the end of the carrier that sits flush with the buffer to the lip just behind the carrier key.
The problem is that the "PA10 buffer" from the lbk is too short for the bcg. The bolt carrier hits the buffer tube where the tube meets the receiver. After noticing this, I switched out the PA10 buffer for an AR-15 H1 carbine buffer. The carbine buffer is long enough to stop the bcg before the bcg hits the buffer tube, and is also not too long to stop the bolt catch from locking the bcg on an empty magazine. I cycled the rifle with the H1 buffer by hand. I haven't shot the rifle with the H1 buffer. I'd like to hear from PSA about this. With the other PA10 stock kits the buffer is listed as a carbine H buffer (classic stock kit), PSA H buffer (MOE stock kit), or a standard carbine buffer (complete classic lower). Should a standard AR-15 carbine buffer be used in the PA10 6 position buffer tube? Is the buffer included in the classic lbk actually for AR-15 buffer tubes? Or, is this because I'm not using a PSA bcg? Has anyone else had this problem? 
Finish worn from carrier hitting buffer tube. |
Another issue pops up.
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Thank you for your comments. The build kits were released within a few days of the lowers. We apologize for the delay.
The following items differ Between the AR15 and the PA10 lower receiver build kits: Front and rear take down pins (longer) The bolt catch (larger) The Mag catch The carbine buffer tube (longer) Carbine and rifle buffers (shorter) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have approx. 80 rounds thru my PA-10, am not experiencing your anomaly. It came with a H1 AR15 buffer. The buffer spring is LONGER than AR15 Carbine spring but SHORTER than AR15 Rifle spring. The H1 buffer I have does not match PSA's reply above. "Carbine and rifle buffers (shorter)" The buffer tube is longer than AR15 carbine tube. Am having some minor issues locking fully loaded 20 & 25 rounds PMAGS with bolt closed. DPMS mags, even when empty require a hard rap against mag bottom to lock in place. Also minor scoring from the bolt carrier forward movement of the top round in the magazine, both PMAG and DPMS mags. When I have put nother 100 rounds thru it I'll evaluate and decide if I need to contact PSA for support. |
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Quoted:
I have approx. 80 rounds thru my PA-10, am not experiencing your anomaly. It came with a H1 AR15 buffer. The buffer spring is LONGER than AR15 Carbine spring but SHORTER than AR15 Rifle spring. The H1 buffer I have does not match PSA's reply above. "Carbine and rifle buffers (shorter)" The buffer tube is longer than AR15 carbine tube. Did you purchase a complete lower, or stripped lower with a build kit? |
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Quoted:
Did you purchase a complete lower, or stripped lower with a build kit? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I bought the complete Lower Assy. I'm wondering if the buffer in the lbk I received is the wrong buffer for use in the PA10 buffer tube. Hopefully PSA will respond to this tomorrow. |
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-------------------"Carbine and rifle buffers (shorter)"-------------
According to this PSA posting the AR15 H1, 3.25 inches length buffer that came with my lower assy is the wrong one. The DPMS 308 Carbine Buffers are 2.485 inches length (according to Midway USA Tech Info). Some day all the kinks will get worked out. |
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I will put the H2 buffer in the next range trip. Current H1 buffer is ejecting at the 1330 to 1400 clock position.
Hoping the H2 will get it closer to the 1500 clock position. I now have put approx. 80 rounds thru it. No major concerns. . Appears to be a serious difference between the PA-10 buffer in the LBK vs complete assembled lower assy. As per the Midway USA spec sheet: The DPMS LR-308 carbine buffer is approx .75 inches shorter than the AR15 carbine buffer and uses the standard AR15 carbine extension buffer tube. The LR- 308 carbine buffer spring is different than the AR-15 carbine buffer spring, Don't know how different. Don't believe I would shoot with the LBK short buffer without a confab with PSA tech services. |
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In my PA10 LBK I got from PSA 2 weeks ago, I got the shorter buffer.
My reading comp must be suffering because I cant tell from this thread whether it is supposed to be the "right" one. Quoted:
For reference: On the left is a standard H1 carbine buffer, on the right is the PA10 carbine buffer that came with the classic lower build kit. http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag372/brendontripp/20141010_162120_zps228fe350.jpg |
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Quoted:
In my PA10 LBK I got from PSA 2 weeks ago, I got the shorter buffer. My reading comp must be suffering because I cant tell from this thread whether it is supposed to be the "right" one. In my rifle, the shorter buffer in the picture is the buffer that is too short for the PA10 6 position buffer tube that came in the classic lbk. With the shorter buffer was installed and the lower separated from the upper, I could push the bcg back in the buffer tube until the bcg hit the buffer tube. |
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Quoted:
Looks as though the what is the correct buffer problem will be ignored in hopes it or the customers will go away Quoted:
Quoted:
Bump for PSA to chime in. Looks as though the what is the correct buffer problem will be ignored in hopes it or the customers will go away they probably don't even know what is going on and they are trying to figure it out on the fly............ 
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Thank you for the inquiry.
While the shorter buffer was initially used, we are currently using a standard carbine length heavy buffer for best performance with the wide variety of carriers available. If you purchased a PSA kit and received a short buffer, please IM us your order number and we will replace it. |
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Quoted:
Thank you for the inquiry. While the shorter buffer was initially used, we are currently using a standard carbine length heavy buffer for best performance with the wide variety of carriers available. If you purchased a PSA kit and received a short buffer, please IM us your order number and we will replace it. Thank you for the reply. I will check my kit tomorrow and let you know. |
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Quoted:
Thank you for the inquiry. While the shorter buffer was initially used, we are currently using a standard carbine length heavy buffer for best performance with the wide variety of carriers available. If you purchased a PSA kit and received a short buffer, please IM us your order number and we will replace it. iM sent |
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Quoted:
Thank you for the inquiry. While the shorter buffer was initially used, we are currently using a standard carbine length heavy buffer for best performance with the wide variety of carriers available. If you purchased a PSA kit and received a short buffer, please IM us your order number and we will replace it. yup i had the short one too.. IM sent |
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Quoted:
bc_tripp, Thanks for the heads-up. I checked my buffer and it was also a short one. Yup..., it was banging against my buffer tube extension just like your's! 
http://i62.tinypic.com/313py5h.jpg http://i59.tinypic.com/f1idlk.jpg http://i59.tinypic.com/14czcbm.jpg IM has been sent to PSA. Has anybody gotten their replacement buffer yet? Thanks, Mark I have not. they did acknowledge my message and stated they would have one out to me asap. that was monday iirc. |
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Quoted:
bc_tripp, Thanks for the heads-up. I checked my buffer and it was also a short one. Yup..., it was banging against my buffer tube extension just like your's!
http://i62.tinypic.com/313py5h.jpg http://i59.tinypic.com/f1idlk.jpg http://i59.tinypic.com/14czcbm.jpg Thank you for those photos. One picture is indeed worth 1000 words. |
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Now that we have figured out that the short buffer was wrong.....
What buffer spring should the PA10 have? On a local forum here in Tennessee, another PA10 owner with a later build that came with the correct H buffer, has a 12.5 inch buffer spring in his PA10. Here is a pic of my short buffer with what appears to me to be a standard carbine length spring that measures a little over 10.5 inches. 
So - - - What Is The Correct Spring????????? |
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The spring that came in my PA-10 complete lower assy with an H buffer is approx. 11.2 inches long, with 27 turns.
With H buffer installed shells were ejecting out to the 1-1:30 o'clock position. With an H2 buffer installed the shells are ejecting out to the 2:30-3 o'clock position. The spring in my PA-15 carbine is approx. 10 inches long, with 38 turns. |
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27 coils? That is interesting. Quoted:
Quoted: The spring that came in my PA-10 complete lower assy with an H buffer is approx. 11.2 inches long, with 27 turns..... 27 coils? That is interesting. From the photo on the Aero website, their .308 buffer spring has ~38 coils, and the one on the DPMS website has 32-35 (hard to count a small photo). I wonder the lengths of these springs. |
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Quoted:From the photo on the Aero website, their .308 buffer spring has ~38 coils, and the one on the DPMS website has 32-35 (hard to count a small photo). I wonder the lengths of these springs. Hking, The spring that came with my short buffer appears to me to be a standard AR15 carbine buffer, 10.5 inch, 39 coils. However, it did reject the cases to the 3-4 o'clock position. I'll asked my local Tennessean about the number of coils with the 12.5 inch spring that he said he had with the H buffer. That 12.5 inch almost sounds rifle length to me. Mark |
| Well I just ordered (2) PSA PA10 .308 Complete Pistol Lower's and plan to build one I am glad I found this thread as I do not want any catastrophic failures happening on my clock. With the deal I got I could not pass it up and I am not planning on building pistols with it and will have (1) pistol buffer tube and buffer for trade if anyone wants to trade. I will be posting pics of the build as I get the funds to build it but I am looking at the Red X Arms barrels and really like this one http://shop.redxarms.com/308-STRAIGHT-FLUTED-20-HBAR-BARREL-30820HBARF.htm has anyone have any experience or knowledge on this barrel or barrel company? |
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tat2,
You will want to get another back plate and castle nut as well as the pistol does not come with a nut and the back plate does not have the notch that fits in the carbine buffer tube. I assume that you know, but I just wanted to give a little FYI that you will have a need for other parts than you listed. Quoted:
Well I just ordered (2) PSA PA10 .308 Complete Pistol Lower's and plan to build one I am glad I found this thread as I do not want any catastrophic failures happening on my clock. With the deal I got I could not pass it up and I am not planning on building pistols with it and will have (1) pistol buffer tube and buffer for trade if anyone wants to trade. I will be posting pics of the build as I get the funds to build it but I am looking at the Red X Arms barrels and really like this one http://shop.redxarms.com/308-STRAIGHT-FLUTED-20-HBAR-BARREL-30820HBARF.htm has anyone have any experience or knowledge on this barrel or barrel company? Is that redx barrel rifle length gas or mid? Nice looking barrel for a good price |
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I thank you for the info on the parts needed for the buffer tube and Castle nut. I just wanted to know since this will be a rifle for long range and huntin g I will not need any type of Tactical butt stock or anything so I was wanting to know if my A2 butt stock off my bushy 20" 5.56 would work on it. I have several of the old A2 type butt stocks laying around.
This is the info on the Barrel it is a 20" barrel. .308 STRAIGHT FLUTED 20" HBAR BARREL Item #: 30820HBARF •MADE FROM 416 STAINLESS STEEL HARDENED TO 26-32 RC AND STRESS RELIEVED. • 1-10 RH TWIST •CHAMBERED IN .308 WINCHESTER •.750" DIAMETER UNDER GAS BLOCK. • STANDARD 5/8-24 THREADS FOR MUZZLE DEVICE •COMES AS SEEN IN PICTURE WITH BARREL EXTENSION AND EXTENSION PIN INSTALLED. THIS BARREL ALSO HAS THE GAS PORT HOLE PRE-DRILLED. BARREL EXTENSION HAS THE M4 FEEDRAMPS |
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tat2,
Just for the record, I do not work for PSA. I just live near enough to go to the store and have spent enough money there that I fund payroll!! LOL Putting the AR15 complete A2 stock on the lower may present a whole other issue. All the LBKs and complete lowers that PSA has sold has either been with a carbine length tube or the pistol tube. None have been sold with the A2 stock, and to be honest, there has been some confusion on buffers/springs being brought to light. You are getting into unfamiliar territory for me with the PA10 since I am very much a .308 AR newbie myself. You may want to steer the question about what you need for a rifle length buffer tube for the A2 stock to the AR Variants forum. There are a handful of very knowledgable folks there. Sounds like you will need a whole buffer/buffer tube/spring setup to run that stock. It may just be as simple as switching the stock between the guns, but IDK. Quoted:
I thank you for the info on the parts needed for the buffer tube and Castle nut. I just wanted to know since this will be a rifle for long range and huntin g I will not need any type of Tactical butt stock or anything so I was wanting to know if my A2 butt stock off my bushy 20" 5.56 would work on it. I have several of the old A2 type butt stocks laying around. |
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Thanks Again lizARdman15,
I know I will have to buy the tube, Buffer & buffer spring I just wanted to know if the retro stock would work as this riffle will not be for CQB or tactical battle or anything this will be my hunting rifle and long range shooter so its not going to be built on that type of platform so that is why I asked as I don't see spending $250.00 on an adjustable stock with adjustable cheek weld and so on. I mean hey if I was going to dump another 200 bills into it I would surely use the $200 on a better optic and use the retro A2 butt stock. |
Ouch, I checked my lower to see if there was any damage from the buffer being too short, and well it got wacked up pretty good by the carrier. 
PSA said they are sending a new buffer, hopefully it will keep my lower from being destroyed because that damage is from only 20 rounds. A few more rounds and it would have staked my buffer tube in! |
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From everything I see, they are using the correct spring. I might pick up a heavier spring anyways because I am having problems feeding the first 2 rounds from a full mag. Maybe the longer (maybe heavier) buffer PSA is sending out will help, who knows? when i picked up mine, they had given me a H2 buffer, and a replacement buffer Detent spring. |
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So....... Is the H2 now the correct buffer and not a H? Quoted:
Quoted:.... when i picked up mine, they had given me a H2 buffer, and a replacement buffer Detent spring. So....... Is the H2 now the correct buffer and not a H? I got a H with a detent spring?? What the hell are they doing over there??? PSA what is the correct buffer to use?? |
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I got a H with a detent spring?? What the hell are they doing over there??? PSA what is the correct buffer to use?? Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:.... when i picked up mine, they had given me a H2 buffer, and a replacement buffer Detent spring. So....... Is the H2 now the correct buffer and not a H? I got a H with a detent spring?? What the hell are they doing over there??? PSA what is the correct buffer to use?? I still have not shot mine because I want to make sure I have the correct buffer... |