Posted: 8/9/2013 8:28:04 AM EDT
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Hey Guys,
I bought a new upper from PSA and threw in my new rguns bolt and took the rifle to the range. I shot 5 shots at 25 yards, adjusted the front sight, and the gun experienced a case head separation the destroyed the upper, the barrel, the bolt, and my magazine on the 6th shot. I sent them pictures of the carnage. I had purchased the ammo with the upper. When I contacted PSA, they said it was an ammo problem and tough luck. I contacted them again, reiterating I bought the ammo with the upper and they offered me $50 towards another upper. I could not even replace the bolt/magazine that their products destroyed, let alone the upper that I purchased from them with the $50 they offered? Am I outa line here? I cannot accept that the upper self destructed on the 6th round and PSA is being standoffish and offering me a measly $50 credit as opposed to replacing the upper/ammo/bolt/magazine. I have purchased lower build kits and other misc stuff from them before, but this was my first upper with them. I know this is the PSA forum, but I am curious what others think in a more public forum as my 3 communications with them on this matter have been fruitless. Ben P.S. Sorry to everyone that I steered to PSA on this thread |
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Thank you for your purchase. We are sorry to hear of your misfortune, and are glad no one was injured.
However, as we explained in our correspondence, the issue you encountered appeared to be case head failure. This is caused by a fault in the ammo, and is the responsibility of the ammo manufacturer. If you would like to ship the upper back to us, we would be happy to confirm that this is indeed what happened. While we had no part in the responsibility for the ammo defect, we sympathize with your plight and offered to give a credit on a new purchase. We value all our customers. If any of our employees told you "tough luck", please share the name, they will be dealt with immediately. |
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Quoted: The thing is, I bought the ammo from them when I bought the upper...I would think they would go after ammo company on my behalf and get me back up and shooting. Do you think that if you had purchased the ammo from Walmart, Midway, or any other vendor, that they would have replaced your upper and gone after the ammo maker on your behalf? No, they would have told you the same thing that PSA said, that it is between you and the ammo maker. |
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Dear 13er
When it comes to case head separation, there are typically two things that cause them: Improper headspace Thin case walls due to improper production or multiple reloadings (probably not likely in factory fresh ammo). In your case and by your own admission, adding in a fairly suspect new bolt (yes, R-guns is pretty shoddy QC as any Google search will tell you) can cause headspace issues. Did you check with a go/no-go gauge before you started blasting away? Or a field gauge as a minimum? Was this a case head separation or a case of an improper charge resulting in a obstructed barrel? Can you distinguish the difference? Or are you going to continue to act offended and deny the company to take a look at the product to determine if it's at fault to hopefully warn the rest of us that bought the same upper? So as a consumer, you all the sudden start blaming a manufacturer for a "defect" and screaming about how the upper blew up your magazine, bolt and upper when chances are... It very well could be ammo related and/or a defective part on someone else's account? And get mad when PSA refuses to refund your money without you even sending them the damaged part to determine if it was their fault or not? Since you declined to post pics, we surely can't tell what the cause is or help you diagnose the problems. You dropped an aftermarket bolt in a brand new upper, didn't check headspace, won't tell us the type of ammo but have come to the deduction it's Palmetto's fault? Classic 13er move. |
| I am glad you were not injured. What ammunition and lot number(often found on packaging)? I understand your frustration. I hope you can get things reconciled to your satisfaction. First step: make a PSA. Second step : go after the ammo maker to make things right. Head spacing gauges are cheap insurance for the future. Good luck. This thread will be monitored. |
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Quoted: You know what, that does help clarify. Obviously my passions are up and I am unhappy with the situation. Being out of the money for an upper, a bolt, etc hurts. Yeah that sucks. Glad you are okay enough to type. Consider yourself lucky on that regard. I reload, and can say (like all others here) it was ammo or headspace issue. Id likely blame the ammo as that is highly the cause of your issue but since R Guns was the BCG thats now a possibility as well. I can however say PSA is highly, HIGHLY unlikely at fault here. Contact the ammo mfg, send in your rifle pieces for inspection, and wait for them to cut you a check. When your check arrives, thank PSA for the $50 discount (which I feel they dont owe you in any way, and shows class on their part) and dont let it discourage you from the hobby. Good luck!
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Quoted:
You know what, that does help clarify. Obviously my passions are up and I am unhappy with the situation. Being out of the money for an upper, a bolt, etc hurts. We understand that being out of the money hurts, it down right sucks. But to place blame where it does not lie is not the answer. PSA didn't make the ammo, they just sold it, just like walmart, bass pro, cabela's, etc. To me they are going above and beyond to make customers happy, even when it is not their fault. |
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Quoted:
Dear 13er When it comes to case head separation, there are typically two things that cause them: Improper headspace Thin case walls due to improper production or multiple reloadings (probably not likely in factory fresh ammo). In your case and by your own admission, adding in a fairly suspect new bolt (yes, R-guns is pretty shoddy QC as any Google search will tell you) can cause headspace issues. Did you check with a go/no-go gauge before you started blasting away? Or a field gauge as a minimum? Was this a case head separation or a case of an improper charge resulting in a obstructed barrel? Can you distinguish the difference? Or are you going to continue to act offended and deny the company to take a look at the product to determine if it's at fault to hopefully warn the rest of us that bought the same upper? So as a consumer, you all the sudden start blaming a manufacturer for a "defect" and screaming about how the upper blew up your magazine, bolt and upper when chances are... It very well could be ammo related and/or a defective part on someone else's account? And get mad when PSA refuses to refund your money without you even sending them the damaged part to determine if it was their fault or not? Since you declined to post pics, we surely can't tell what the cause is or help you diagnose the problems. You dropped an aftermarket bolt in a brand new upper, didn't check headspace, won't tell us the type of ammo but have come to the deduction it's Palmetto's fault? Classic 13er move. Woah Grand, I don't know what got you so fired up and passionate about this. Rguns as a company and how they treat customers has a shoddy rep, but not their parts. Just as I was making assumptions about PSA, you are making the same about rguns. I had sent pictures to PSA already, didn't see the point of posting here as the fact that the upper is wrecked is already established. I had already offered to send parts back to them. They know the ammo involved as it was on my order with the upper. I appreciate you sticking up for a manufacturer, but I think you are way off base with your assumptions and the condescending 'tude. Lets agree to not be friends and move on, eh? Ben |
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Also curious what brand of ammo and lot #? Have a friend who had the same issue in October 2012 with a brand new Colt rifle and Remington ammo. Gun blew up on the first magazine. He contacted Colt and Remington as well as the gun store he bought it all from. Both Colt and Remington gave him the run a round and didn't want to take any responsibility. Finally the gun store stepped in and sent the gun back to Colt. Colt said it was the ammo and sent it to Remington. He just recieved notice last week that Remington would replace the rifle with a voucher from Colt for a new one. This was 10 months ago and he finally got someone to take responsibiliy, but it will most lilely still be another 2-3 months before he recieves the voucher and gets a new rifle back from Colt. Sooo be prepared for a long wait.
He had minor injuries to his hands (cuts) and a small cut on his face. Remington is also sending him a voucher for 200 rounds of ammo for his time and injuries. |
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Thank you for your comments.
As was confirmed in multiple posts, the likely culprit is the ammo. While it is possible the issue could have been caused by improper headspace on the bolt, it is incumbent on the user to check headspace when mixing and matching components. We sympathize with OP, but we do not have liability in this issue. As soliciting comments was the purpose of this thread, we will consider it answered. Please contact customer service directly if you have further questions. |