Posted: 3/12/2017 12:12:41 PM EDT
| I am looking to order dies to start reloading for my OBR and currently thinking about Redding #36155 full type s dies. Is anyone using these? Any recommendations and why? Thanks in advance for any and all advice! |
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Thanks! Any suggestion on how many thousands neck tension? ETA: And yes, these are very good dies to use...that's why I use them 
You can also use the Type-S FL Sizing die WITHOUT the internals (without the bushing, and decapping rod), and it will just work as a 'body' die, bumping the shoulder back just enough to chamber without resizing the neck. In that case, I then often resize the neck only in a separate operation, using a Lee Collet Neck Sizing die. They're very inexpensive (about $25), but produce VERY concentric ammo as a result of their design. If you are going to use the Type-S FL die with the bushing, and/or the decapping rod, I'd still definitely at the least remove the "button" from the decapping rod, as this works the neck excessively from the inside and often detracts from concentricity. Frankly, I do my decapping in a separate operation before I get around to resizing, so I don't use the rod at all even if I am using the bushing...but this will depend on your routine and the amount of OCD you have. 
You might also consider dies from Forster, and/or Whidden...both of whom also make VERY good dies. Forsters are less expensive, but don't let that put you off. They're great. |
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I am using Forsters- FL size die and micrometer seating die.
Whatever you get, make sure your press is mounted to a solid, anchored bench and you might as well put a cheater bar on the handle. Re-sizing my tOBR brass is just a little worse than bulk machinegun brass. Definitely worse than even range pickup G3 or CETME brass. Might be the xtraxn chamber- not sure, but it is hell to FL resize. This issue is multiplied with soft brass like federal. |
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Seat the bullet that you're going to use in a piece of the brass in question. Measure the outside diameter of the neck with the bullet seated. Buy the bushings that are 0.001" and 0.002" smaller than that number. ETA: And yes, these are very good dies to use...that's why I use them
You can also use the Type-S FL Sizing die WITHOUT the internals (without the bushing, and decapping rod), and it will just work as a 'body' die, bumping the shoulder back just enough to chamber without resizing the neck. In that case, I then often resize the neck only in a separate operation, using a Lee Collet Neck Sizing die. They're very inexpensive (about $25), but produce VERY concentric ammo as a result of their design. If you are going to use the Type-S FL die with the bushing, and/or the decapping rod, I'd still definitely at the least remove the "button" from the decapping rod, as this works the neck excessively from the inside and often detracts from concentricity. Frankly, I do my decapping in a separate operation before I get around to resizing, so I don't use the rod at all even if I am using the bushing...but this will depend on your routine and the amount of OCD you have.
You might also consider dies from Forster, and/or Whidden...both of whom also make VERY good dies. Forsters are less expensive, but don't let that put you off. They're great. Hollywood_Shooter Would .002 be enough tension? Thanks for the tip on the using it as a body die, I didn't think of that. Yes, I was planning on removing the button and die capping rod. I use the Redding universal decapping dies and then wet tumble. I like clean brass.  I will look more into Foster and Whidden. Thanks!
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I am using Forsters- FL size die and micrometer seating die. Whatever you get, make sure your press is mounted to a solid, anchored bench and you might as well put a cheater bar on the handle. Re-sizing my tOBR brass is just a little worse than bulk machinegun brass. Definitely worse than even range pickup G3 or CETME brass. Might be the xtraxn chamber- not sure, but it is hell to FL resize. This issue is multiplied with soft brass like federal. nihilsum  yes I am using the brass from all the Gold Medal Match ammo I have shot in the OBR. Forsters tighter tolerance?
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Hollywood_Shooter Would .002 be enough tension? Thanks for the tip on the using it as a body die, I didn't think of that. Yes, I was planning on removing the button and die capping rod. I use the Redding universal decapping dies and then wet tumble. I like clean brass. I will look more into Foster and Whidden. Thanks! |
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nihilsum yes I am using the brass from all the Gold Medal Match ammo I have shot in the OBR. Forsters tighter tolerance?I have re-sized them in a forster FL size die and dillon FL size/trim die. No difference. For all brass, I resize and trim in the same step on a dillon rt1200. With tOBR brass, I do a partial resizing with the forster fl size die first so that the second operation is not so hard and then lube again to run them through the dillion size/trim die as the dillon still needs to do some sizing in order to grip the brass hard enough that the rt1200 does not grab it and spin it. After trimming, the brass goes through a lyman M die to set neck tension. With brass from my other rifles, I do not need to do the first sizing step and can go straight to the processing toolhead. The biggest problem is that the brass sizes so hard that it stretches again coming back out of the die. I can take brass from an SR25 or bolt gun and throw them all in together and the tOBR brass will come out of the trim die .005-.006 longer than the 2.005 the other brass will come out, even though it was shorter than the SR25 brass going in. I think the sizing issue comes from the tOBR chamber dimensions. Testing it against another AR10 (SR25) with the same Hirtenberger ball ammunition and measuring fired brass, the tOBR seems to have a tighter chamber from the shoulder forward, which probably contributes to the rifle's reputation for precision, but is more generous from the shoulder on back, which I am guessing helps with primary extraction and overall reliability. re: Brass type. I have relegated all my federal match brass to bolt gun use as it seems to work much better there. The next issue, however, is the primer pockets start to loosen noticeably after 2-3 firings and are often too loose by 4. I get a bit more life out of winchester or RP and twice as much out of IMI or LC. I am loading near max in each application. |
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Also - I've used both Winchester and Lapua brass in my OBR 762, and haven't had any problem resizing them more than any other chamber...YMMV Thanks for all the advice. Good to know about the Winchester and Lapua brass, I am going to stop buying Federal until I see how the resizing goes with the brass I have. |
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Thanks for all the advice. Good to know about the Winchester and Lapua brass, I am going to stop buying Federal until I see how the resizing goes with the brass I have. |
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I have re-sized them in a forster FL size die and dillon FL size/trim die. No difference. For all brass, I resize and trim in the same step on a dillon rt1200. With tOBR brass, I do a partial resizing with the forster fl size die first so that the second operation is not so hard and then lube again to run them through the dillion size/trim die as the dillon still needs to do some sizing in order to grip the brass hard enough that the rt1200 does not grab it and spin it. After trimming, the brass goes through a lyman M die to set neck tension. With brass from my other rifles, I do not need to do the first sizing step and can go straight to the processing toolhead. The biggest problem is that the brass sizes so hard that it stretches again coming back out of the die. I can take brass from an SR25 or bolt gun and throw them all in together and the tOBR brass will come out of the trim die .005-.006 longer than the 2.005 the other brass will come out, even though it was shorter than the SR25 brass going in. I think the sizing issue comes from the tOBR chamber dimensions. Testing it against another AR10 (SR25) with the same Hirtenberger ball ammunition and measuring fired brass, the tOBR seems to have a tighter chamber from the shoulder forward, which probably contributes to the rifle's reputation for precision, but is more generous from the shoulder on back, which I am guessing helps with primary extraction and overall reliability. re: Brass type. I have relegated all my federal match brass to bolt gun use as it seems to work much better there. The next issue, however, is the primer pockets start to loosen noticeably after 2-3 firings and are often too loose by 4. I get a bit more life out of winchester or RP and twice as much out of IMI or LC. I am loading near max in each application. The Dillon trim setup looks nice I never seen it before, this is my first go at rifle ammo. I'm assuming the OBR and tOBR share the same chamber, so I guess I will find out soon how bad this resizing process with be with Federal Brass. I was planning on seeing what kind of life I get out of the Federal and then try some LC to compare. Picked up some 168 ELD's and some 175 ELD-X's with 8208 XBR for powder to start. Thanks again for all the input. |
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The Dillon trim setup looks nice I never seen it before, this is my first go at rifle ammo. I'm assuming the OBR and tOBR share the same chamber, so I guess I will find out soon how bad this resizing process with be with Federal Brass. I was planning on seeing what kind of life I get out of the Federal and then try some LC to compare. Picked up some 168 ELD's and some 175 ELD-X's with 8208 XBR for powder to start. Thanks again for all the input. |
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I also use 8208XBR for my OBR ...it meters great. I've tried a number of bullets over the past few years, but currently I'm doing a work up with 175 TMK's. I will say that I've tried the Horny ELD-X and ELD-M in my bolt rifle and they are just great! Really good BC bullet, consistent, and less expensive than Bergers I will admit I was a little concerned with quality when I opened the box of 178 ELD-X's and found a bullet missing a tip. I was thinking the tip must have fallen out and wondered if this was going to be a problem, but I can not find the tip in the box so I am assuming it some how missed that process in the manufacturing. so the 8208XBR has been good for you so far? |
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If you shoot in large temp swings, watch the pressure in 308 with heavy bullets and xbr. I am using comp-are with very good luck with 175's. Temp stable version of 4064. Quoted:
If you shoot in large temp swings, watch the pressure in 308 with heavy bullets and xbr. I am using comp-are with very good luck with 175's. Temp stable version of 4064. On IMR's website they say: IMR 8208 XBR The latest in the versatile IMR line of fine propellants, this accurate metering, super short grained extruded
rifle powder was designed expressly for match, varmint, and AR sniper cartridges. Ideally suited for cartridges like the 223 Remington/5.56mm, 308 Winchester/7.62mm NATO and the 6mm PPC, shooters will find IMR 8208 XBR totally insensitive to changes in temperature, while yielding max velocities and “tack driving” accuracy. Clearly, the competitor’s “choice” and the Varmint Hunter’s “dream powder”. |
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If you shoot in large temp swings, watch the pressure in 308 with heavy bullets and xbr. I am using comp-are with very good luck with 175's. Temp stable version of 4064. I live in Louisiana and have heard of winter, but never really seen it. LOL All joking aside I thought I read on the Hogdon / IMR website that it was supposed to be temperature insensitive, thanks for the heads up! I will definitely work up slow and be looking for pressure signs and probably wait till summer to do it. |
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Not sure why you say that? I wouldn't call it extreme temp swings, but I've used it from 40-degrees to 105-degrees without significant velocity changes. On IMR's website they say: Quoted:
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If you shoot in large temp swings, watch the pressure in 308 with heavy bullets and xbr. I am using comp-are with very good luck with 175's. Temp stable version of 4064. On IMR's website they say: IMR 8208 XBR The latest in the versatile IMR line of fine propellants, this accurate metering, super short grained extruded
rifle powder was designed expressly for match, varmint, and AR sniper cartridges. Ideally suited for cartridges like the 223 Remington/5.56mm, 308 Winchester/7.62mm NATO and the 6mm PPC, shooters will find IMR 8208 XBR totally insensitive to changes in temperature, while yielding max velocities and “tack driving” accuracy. Clearly, the competitor’s “choice” and the Varmint Hunter’s “dream powder”. Ok so I wasn't crazy and did read that. |
| I have to admit I am a bit shocked hearing about the problems with resizing. If you look at how long I have been a member vs my post count, I do a lot more reading than posting. Probably year before last there was a thread dedicated to reloading for Larue rifles and what everyone was using. I don't remember anyone saying anything about case sizing being an issue, but then again that might be why so many were using LC brass. |
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I have to admit I am a bit shocked hearing about the problems with resizing. If you look at how long I have been a member vs my post count, I do a lot more reading than posting. Probably year before last there was a thread dedicated to reloading for Larue rifles and what everyone was using. I don't remember anyone saying anything about case sizing being an issue, but then again that might be why so many were using LC brass. Another caveat reloading with the tOBR is that you will not see pressure signs easily. I see cratered primers and ejector swipes on just about everything. Being a semi-auto, you will not have the sticky bolt lift that is often an indicator. Since few others have had the same issue, I may be the outlier. I reload mixed range pickup brass for bulk ball reloads, including brass that has been through MGs and old battle rifles, but my tOBR is a special case...might just have a slightly different chamber than others. Be assured you are getting one of the finest precision AR10s on the market. |
I know it is suppose to be temp stable. my googlefu is failing me right now but I know I was reading something about it at the time. I really didn't want to get another powder but I wound up going and buying 16#'s of AR-Comp instead of using some of the 16+#'s of 8208 that I already had because of that. I use 8208 for all my 77gr .223 loads. (so now I am up to 6 rifle powders that I have to keep in stock  )
it is something that only affected 30 cal stuff over 168. the 155's had no issue. IIRC loads that were developed in hot temps (around 80 degrees) had a pressure spike issue around 30 degrees. There were no pressure or issues until it was that large of a swing. what primers are you using? hey OP, what part of the state are you in? I use to live in New Iberia and my parents now one a condo in NOLA. |
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I know it is suppose to be temp stable. my googlefu is failing me right now but I know I was reading something about it at the time. I really didn't want to get another powder but I wound up going and buying 16#'s of AR-Comp instead of using some of the 16+#'s of 8208 that I already had because of that. I use 8208 for all my 77gr .223 loads. (so now I am up to 6 rifle powders that I have to keep in stock )
it is something that only affected 30 cal stuff over 168. the 155's had no issue. IIRC loads that were developed in hot temps (around 80 degrees) had a pressure spike issue around 30 degrees. There were no pressure or issues until it was that large of a swing. what primers are you using? hey OP, what part of the state are you in? I use to live in New Iberia and my parents now one a condo in NOLA. |
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Another caveat reloading with the tOBR is that you will not see pressure signs easily. I see cratered primers and ejector swipes on just about everything. Being a semi-auto, you will not have the sticky bolt lift that is often an indicator. Since few others have had the same issue, I may be the outlier. I reload mixed range pickup brass for bulk ball reloads, including brass that has been through MGs and old battle rifles, but my tOBR is a special case...might just have a slightly different chamber than others. Be assured you are getting one of the finest precision AR10s on the market. Quoted:
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I have to admit I am a bit shocked hearing about the problems with resizing. If you look at how long I have been a member vs my post count, I do a lot more reading than posting. Probably year before last there was a thread dedicated to reloading for Larue rifles and what everyone was using. I don't remember anyone saying anything about case sizing being an issue, but then again that might be why so many were using LC brass. Another caveat reloading with the tOBR is that you will not see pressure signs easily. I see cratered primers and ejector swipes on just about everything. Being a semi-auto, you will not have the sticky bolt lift that is often an indicator. Since few others have had the same issue, I may be the outlier. I reload mixed range pickup brass for bulk ball reloads, including brass that has been through MGs and old battle rifles, but my tOBR is a special case...might just have a slightly different chamber than others. Be assured you are getting one of the finest precision AR10s on the market. Please don't get me wrong, I greatly appreciate the input. Guess i'm more upset with myself for not asking around first, because when I bought it I knew I was going to start reloading for it at some point. I purchased a bunch of FGMM to get me started and to use the brass after to reload, plus I bought new brass. In the end it's not that big of a deal I can always sell the new brass and order some LC brass. My curiosity has the best of me now, I ordered the Redding Type S comp dies and can't wait for them to come in so that I can try to resize some, even without the bushings just as a body die to see, then once my bushings come in I can run them again for the neck. |
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I know it is suppose to be temp stable. my googlefu is failing me right now but I know I was reading something about it at the time. I really didn't want to get another powder but I wound up going and buying 16#'s of AR-Comp instead of using some of the 16+#'s of 8208 that I already had because of that. I use 8208 for all my 77gr .223 loads. (so now I am up to 6 rifle powders that I have to keep in stock )
it is something that only affected 30 cal stuff over 168. the 155's had no issue. IIRC loads that were developed in hot temps (around 80 degrees) had a pressure spike issue around 30 degrees. There were no pressure or issues until it was that large of a swing. what primers are you using? hey OP, what part of the state are you in? I use to live in New Iberia and my parents now one a condo in NOLA. I was planning on using CCI #34 or FGMM primers. I'm in Houma 45 minutes south west of NOLA. |
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Another caveat reloading with the tOBR is that you will not see pressure signs easily. I see cratered primers and ejector swipes on just about everything. Being a semi-auto, you will not have the sticky bolt lift that is often an indicator. Since few others have had the same issue, I may be the outlier. I reload mixed range pickup brass for bulk ball reloads, including brass that has been through MGs and old battle rifles, but my tOBR is a special case...might just have a slightly different chamber than others. Be assured you are getting one of the finest precision AR10s on the market. Also, Lake City and FC brass are awful to resize, but Winchester, Lapua (best for Berger bullets so far), and Norma (best for Hornady ELD-X so far) give me no trouble. |
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I was planning on using CCI #34 or FGMM primers. I'm in Houma 45 minutes south west of NOLA. Quoted:
I was planning on using CCI #34 or FGMM primers. I'm in Houma 45 minutes south west of NOLA. Seems like a good choice.....both should be consistent. Winchester WLR are the most available right now but best saved for large cases or ball powders. Quoted:
Nope, you're not alone... 16" here, and all but the mildest starting loads or super softball factory ammo (Norma TAC gently lobs a 150gr FMJ at 2430ish, but shoots great, makes for tricky wind practice, and generates top-notch brass for lower cost than just buying the brass) has primer craters and ejector swipes (and sometimes extractor bites) out the wazoo. I think the carbine length system is a bit overgassed. Even leaving it on the suppressed setting all the time, it beats up case heads on moderately warm loads like anything I've tried from SSA, XM80, and 7.62 FGMM (aka Mk316 Mod 0 overruns). I've trashed a lot of primer pockets on really good brass because the first reliable pressure sign I get is when the primer falls out, hahaha. One of these days when I have money I'll probably pick up an 18 or 20" barrel and see if the longer gas system cycles more gently (plus get 50-100 more FPS). Also, Lake City and FC brass are awful to resize, but Winchester, Lapua (best for Berger bullets so far), and Norma (best for Hornady ELD-X so far) give me no trouble. Mine is an 18" and I also leave the PST set to "suppressed" with an H3 buffer and no suppressor. |
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I have used wlr and cci. I got better velocity and smaller sd/ed with the wlr's. Don't get me wrong though, the cci' are good too.
The reason I switched though is that I had a case of primers that were defective per winchester. The cups were not annealed right and failed. They did make it right though. If you have wlr primers that are few years old, I would pull the lot numbers and Google them. |
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I have used wlr and cci. I got better velocity and smaller sd/ed with the wlr's. Don't get me wrong though, the cci' are good too. The reason I switched though is that I had a case of primers that were defective per winchester. The cups were not annealed right and failed. They did make it right though. If you have wlr primers that are few years old, I would pull the lot numbers and Google them. Thank you for the heads up. Newer WLR seem to be a bit hotter and will ignite large volume/low charge cases and/or ball powders well where lower flash/better SD primers will hang fire. I can't get them below 25-30 SD in .308 with 3031 or 4064 but they go into the single digits easily with heavy ball powders. |
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Nope, you're not alone... 16" here, and all but the mildest starting loads or super softball factory ammo (Norma TAC gently lobs a 150gr FMJ at 2430ish, but shoots great, makes for tricky wind practice, and generates top-notch brass for lower cost than just buying the brass) has primer craters and ejector swipes (and sometimes extractor bites) out the wazoo. I think the carbine length system is a bit overgassed. Even leaving it on the suppressed setting all the time, it beats up case heads on moderately warm loads like anything I've tried from SSA, XM80, and 7.62 FGMM (aka Mk316 Mod 0 overruns). I've trashed a lot of primer pockets on really good brass because the first reliable pressure sign I get is when the primer falls out, hahaha. One of these days when I have money I'll probably pick up an 18 or 20" barrel and see if the longer gas system cycles more gently (plus get 50-100 more FPS). Also, Lake City and FC brass are awful to resize, but Winchester, Lapua (best for Berger bullets so far), and Norma (best for Hornady ELD-X so far) give me no trouble. Thank For the heads up on brass. I wish my Dies would get here so I can get started before I have to leave town next week, but don't think that will happen. Heading to the range tomorrow, I still have a few hundred rounds of FGMM. My OBR is a 20" brass lands consistently at about the 4 or 5 o'clock position. In September and October of last year it went back to the mother ship, I was having intermittent feeding problem. This will be the first range trip after the repair. |
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On suppressed without suppressors are both of y'all guns cycling, or manualy charging? |
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On suppressed without suppressors are both of y'all guns cycling, or manualy charging? My tOBR cycles just fine with factory FGMM (benchmark) how is usually set it up: -PST set to "suppressed" and no suppressor -H3 buffer with factory spring -bolt carrier packed and action lubed with mobil 1 axle grease instead of oil. Below 40F, the thick grease slows it down enough it will occasionally not feed, but setting the block to "unsuppressed" again frees it up. It's nice because the tOBR has plenty of gas energy to cycle with it packed like a U-Joint, it doesn't splatter, and slows visible wear down to nothing. |
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Huh. The ONLY time I ever had a failure of any kind with my OBR was when it didn't LRBHO because I accidentally moved the lever to suppressed when cleaning the brake. Moved it back to unsupressed and it's fed, ejected, and LRBHO on everything it could get. the PST set to "suppressed" with an H3 buffer and no suppressor. |
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On suppressed without suppressors are both of y'all guns cycling, or manualy charging? |
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Yep, cycles fine on most stuff with a bit less brass damage than leaving it set to unsuppressed. Still throws brass forward on warm loads. Funny thing is, I can't get the 200gr ELD-X to cycle reliably with anything from light to hot loads. Every 2-3 rounds I get a bolt over base malfunction on feeding. My guess is the lowish velocity, slower powder, heavy weight, and bearing surface like an ICBM stretches out the dwell time and pressure curve so that gas port pressure is unusually high, leading to a bolt speed that the Larue mag spring can't keep up with. I haven't yet tried with Lancer mags (which seem to have stiffer springs), as the best accuracy node, which still wasn't very good, wasn't giving me enough velocity with that bullet (about 2350 fps), so I gave up on it and switched to the much more promising 178, which I can drive at up to 2550 fps if I'm feeling saucy, shoots more accurately in my gun, and really doesn't give up too much in BC... it seems to have the same nose and boat tail as the 200 just with a shorter bearing surface. Been working on 175gr TMKs, but at 2.89" I also find that my rifle is a little easier on brass on "suppressed" and still works fine with no can. Does not bend the rims as bad. |
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ELD-X at mag length? Is the ogive starting inside the case? Been working on 175gr TMKs, but at 2.89" I also find that my rifle is a little easier on brass on "suppressed" and still works fine with no can. Does not bend the rims as bad. 
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Quoted:ELD-X at mag length? Is the ogive starting inside the case? Been working on 175gr TMKs, but at 2.89"I also find that my rifle is a little easier on brass on "suppressed" and still works fine with no can. Does not bend the rims as bad. |
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Yep, cycles fine on most stuff with a bit less brass damage than leaving it set to unsuppressed. Still throws brass forward on warm loads. Funny thing is, I can't get the 200gr ELD-X to cycle reliably with anything from light to hot loads. Every 2-3 rounds I get a bolt over base malfunction on feeding. My guess is the lowish velocity, slower powder, heavy weight, and bearing surface like an ICBM stretches out the dwell time and pressure curve so that gas port pressure is unusually high, leading to a bolt speed that the Larue mag spring can't keep up with. I haven't yet tried with Lancer mags (which seem to have stiffer springs), as the best accuracy node, which still wasn't very good, wasn't giving me enough velocity with that bullet (about 2350 fps), so I gave up on it and switched to the much more promising 178, which I can drive at up to 2550 fps if I'm feeling saucy, shoots more accurately in my gun, and really doesn't give up too much in BC... it seems to have the same nose and boat tail as the 200 just with a shorter bearing surface. Quoted:
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On suppressed without suppressors are both of y'all guns cycling, or manualy charging? |
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Weekend before last i went to the range and put another 100 rounds through it and all was good.
This past Saturday I tried resizing some of my brass with the Type-s dies setup just as a body die, due to not having a bushing yet. I have to admit the FGMM brass took quite some effort to resize. I compared the resized brass to new FGMM with the Hornady tool and everything was good. I tried dropping the resized brass in my JP case gauge and they are a no go. You can physically push them in, but they will not drop in freely like new FGMM. Off to e-mail Redding! |
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Weekend before last i went to the range and put another 100 rounds through it and all was good. This past Saturday I tried resizing some of my brass with the Type-s dies setup just as a body die, due to not having a bushing yet. I have to admit the FGMM brass took quite some effort to resize. I compared the resized brass to new FGMM with the Hornady tool and everything was good. I tried dropping the resized brass in my JP case gauge and they are a no go. You can physically push them in, but they will not drop in freely like new FGMM. Off to e-mail Redding! I now only use federal brass in bolt or softer-cycling/not fluted gas guns like an SR. |
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Do you have other brass (other makes or fired in other guns) to size in the new dies and then gauge? Might be worth isolating the variables. I now only use federal brass in bolt or softer-cycling/not fluted gas guns like an SR. Quoted:
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Weekend before last i went to the range and put another 100 rounds through it and all was good. This past Saturday I tried resizing some of my brass with the Type-s dies setup just as a body die, due to not having a bushing yet. I have to admit the FGMM brass took quite some effort to resize. I compared the resized brass to new FGMM with the Hornady tool and everything was good. I tried dropping the resized brass in my JP case gauge and they are a no go. You can physically push them in, but they will not drop in freely like new FGMM. Off to e-mail Redding! I now only use federal brass in bolt or softer-cycling/not fluted gas guns like an SR. |