Posted: 11/9/2009 2:49:20 PM EDT
| How do you do it Travis? I've watched the AOTTC Volume 2 DVD a few times now and I'm still amazed at how much trigger control you have and how fast you can pull off those round accurately. I'm sure it's because you practice nearly every time you teach a class and all the trigger time you've had in the Middle East, but is there anything special to how you're able to keep it so controlled and quick? |
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I will admit it has taken all my life and continue to learn. Now a majority of that time was through trial and error and many different environments of institutional inertia and false magic tricks. But the shitty part is that it doesn’t take all your life. I will tell you that it comes down to how efficient and deliberate you are at the basic fundamentals and then how much desire you have to climb the ladder of excellence on a daily basis which is not easy to do.
Once you hone the fundamentals PROPERLY, then you can start to raise the speed bar. Just keep in mind when you start to raise the speed bar, then accuracy bar will drop, hence our BSA template which is built to force you to balance both speed and precision. Speed is not more important than accuracy. Accuracy is not more important than speed. Speed and accuracy are two parts of the same machine. When they mesh, a shooter's survivability rate in a time-is-life situation climbs significantly, as does their positive effect on the target. Like said above, grip on the gun and understanding how proper body mechanics control the platform and keep the sights on target. Training to reality-tightening up the body like in a Dynamic Body alarm response, will help you isolate the dot on the target and isolate proper reward pressure and release of the trigger. Also training slow but deliberate, and forcing yourself to reset the trigger properly without having your trigger finger come off the face of trigger every time you break a shot even firing at a fast rate. FYI: (for me) Single Stage triggers help also… I run mostly JP’s. If you plan on running a gun hard and fast be careful of double clutching the trigger on Two-Stage triggers. I will find myself fumbling with a two stage due to the fact that you have to 1: press 2: reset 3: Slack 4: Press. Sometimes when running it fast I will reset thinking it reset the trigger when all I did is let the slack out which then causes an extra step. Single Stage 1: press 2: reset 3: Press… So that may help if you find yourself one day trying to go faster and then your gear limits your true ability. |
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Travis also does 1000 index finger push ups a day.
Every time i watch the dvd's im amazed at how fast he can shoot. Ive spent the better part of a year trying to work on my speed and ive seen only marginal results. Hopefully in another 10 years or so ill be half as fast as Travis or Chris. :) |
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I will admit it has taken all my life and continue to learn. Now a majority of that time was through trial and error and many different environments of institutional inertia and false magic tricks. But the shitty part is that it doesn’t take all your life. I will tell you that it comes down to how efficient and deliberate you are at the basic fundamentals and then how much desire you have to climb the ladder of excellence on a daily basis which is not easy to do. Once you hone the fundamentals PROPERLY, then you can start to raise the speed bar. Just keep in mind when you start to raise the speed bar, then accuracy bar will drop, hence our BSA template which is built to force you to balance both speed and precision. Speed is not more important than accuracy. Accuracy is not more important than speed. Speed and accuracy are two parts of the same machine. When they mesh, a shooter's survivability rate in a time-is-life situation climbs significantly, as does their positive effect on the target. Like said above, grip on the gun and understanding how proper body mechanics control the platform and keep the sights on target. Training to reality-tightening up the body like in a Dynamic Body alarm response, will help you isolate the dot on the target and isolate proper reward pressure and release of the trigger. Also training slow but deliberate, and forcing yourself to reset the trigger properly without having your trigger finger come off the face of trigger every time you break a shot even firing at a fast rate. FYI: (for me) Single Stage triggers help also… I run mostly JP’s. If you plan on running a gun hard and fast be careful of double clutching the trigger on Two-Stage triggers. I will find myself fumbling with a two stage due to the fact that you have to 1: press 2: reset 3: Slack 4: Press. Sometimes when running it fast I will reset thinking it reset the trigger when all I did is let the slack out which then causes an extra step. Single Stage 1: press 2: reset 3: Press… So that may help if you find yourself one day trying to go faster and then your gear limits your true ability. Geez, I could almost close my eyes and see you on the pit-run gravel surface at Birchwood saying this . . . Then someone from the back screams, "Incoming . . ." |
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It's pretty impressive. One of the ROs at our class actually thought Travis snuck a full auto in to the class.
As reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKS6C0Dc1Hc |
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It is always fun and informative watching guys at the top of their game.
I shoot USPSA with some top level shooters. I have seen disected videos and their form is flawless. That is why I always find it funny when people try to take shortcuts such as flicking the safety off early or prepping the trigger before they are on target. One of these days I would love to take a carbine course |
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It is always fun and informative watching guys at the top of their game. I shoot USPSA with some top level shooters. I have seen disected videos and their form is flawless. That is why I always find it funny when people try to take shortcuts such as flicking the safety off early or prepping the trigger before they are on target. One of these days I would love to take a carbine course What's even MORE funny is when Costa or Haley jump somebody's shit for gaming a drill by flipping the safety off early. 
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It is always fun and informative watching guys at the top of their game. I shoot USPSA with some top level shooters. I have seen disected videos and their form is flawless. That is why I always find it funny when people try to take shortcuts such as flicking the safety off early or prepping the trigger before they are on target. One of these days I would love to take a carbine course What's even MORE funny is when Costa or Haley jump somebody's shit for gaming a drill by flipping the safety off early.
I wouldn't know what you're talking about, Flyboy.
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Quoted: <snip> Training to reality-tightening up the body like in a Dynamic Body alarm response, will help you isolate the dot on the target and isolate proper reward pressure and release of the trigger. Also training slow but deliberate, and forcing yourself to reset the trigger properly without having your trigger finger come off the face of trigger every time you break a shot even firing at a fast rate. </snip> There can be some kinda shitty results when old guys try that...  |
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It is always fun and informative watching guys at the top of their game. I shoot USPSA with some top level shooters. I have seen disected videos and their form is flawless. That is why I always find it funny when people try to take shortcuts such as flicking the safety off early or prepping the trigger before they are on target. One of these days I would love to take a carbine course Dont ever think you are the at the top of your game.... one can never stop excelling. And like you metioned of those who take shortcuts not only cheat themselves but cheat our socity in case they find themselves in a dynamic stress situation one day. |
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It is always fun and informative watching guys at the top of their game. I shoot USPSA with some top level shooters. I have seen disected videos and their form is flawless. That is why I always find it funny when people try to take shortcuts such as flicking the safety off early or prepping the trigger before they are on target. One of these days I would love to take a carbine course Dont ever think you are the at the top of your game.... one can never stop excelling. And like you metioned of those who take shortcuts not only cheat themselves but cheat our socity in case they find themselves in a dynamic stress situation one day. No worries here  I love shooting, all types and kinds. While I dont spend as much time as I should I am well aware that there is a whole lot of room for improvement
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Here's his REAL secret... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZMhOzUxw4s
Just playing, thanks for the great advice. One should never underestimate the value of an eager attitude and willingness to learn and improve themselves in whatever they choose. And boy do I have A LOT to learn!!! |
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Here's his REAL secret... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZMhOzUxw4s Just playing, thanks for the great advice. One should never underestimate the value of an eager attitude and willingness to learn and improve themselves in whatever they choose. And boy do I have A LOT to learn!!! OMG.... I remember having a pair of those glasses and and a hellstorm on my MAC10! |
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It's pretty impressive. One of the ROs at our class actually thought Travis snuck a full auto in to the class. As reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKS6C0Dc1Hc I heard the ATF is in the process of regulating Travis' trigger finger. 
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It's pretty impressive. One of the ROs at our class actually thought Travis snuck a full auto in to the class. As reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKS6C0Dc1Hc I heard the ATF is in the process of regulating Travis' trigger finger. not just the ATF.... As for the JP, I havent have to many problems with them and not had to maintain them much at all. One of the best consistant triggers I have used. |
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It's pretty impressive. One of the ROs at our class actually thought Travis snuck a full auto in to the class. As reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKS6C0Dc1Hc I heard the ATF is in the process of regulating Travis' trigger finger. not just the ATF.... HI-OOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! |
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It's pretty impressive. One of the ROs at our class actually thought Travis snuck a full auto in to the class. As reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKS6C0Dc1Hc I heard the ATF is in the process of regulating Travis' trigger finger. not just the ATF.... HI-OOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! 
Whuddapimp. 
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Single stage, match triggers certainly helps for "trigger speed"
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As for the JP, I havent have to many problems with them and not had to maintain them much at all. One of the best consistant triggers I have used. Travis, which version of JP do you have? The modular one or the regualr one? Also, which springs(trigger weight) are you running? (yellow?) |
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JPs are pretty sweet.I run one in my main rig.But those SSAs are really starting to become my fav trigger. I love the SSAs personally. In 3 of my ARs I've got 2-stage triggers; an LMT, SSA, and KAC (SR-15). The SSA being the best IMHO, as the LMT's break just feels a bit stiff, not crisp. And the KAC is just overcomplicated in comparison to the SSAs. That said you can't supplement hardware in place of skill. |
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Single stage, match triggers certainly helps for "trigger speed" Quoted:
As for the JP, I havent have to many problems with them and not had to maintain them much at all. One of the best consistant triggers I have used. Travis, which version of JP do you have? The modular one or the regualr one? Also, which springs(trigger weight) are you running? (yellow?) typically this is what I will run: JP Triggers JP Springs |
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Hmmm I vaguely remember Travis saying something about "fancy triggers" being a waste of money... Travis...YOU LIE!! 
No... I'm not absolute, LOL and I have started that with the understandind that you don't need a fancey trigger to aquire good trigger control. |
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Hmmm I vaguely remember Travis saying something about "fancy triggers" being a waste of money... Travis...YOU LIE!!
No... I'm not absolute, LOL and I have started that with the understandind that you don't need a fancey trigger to aquire good trigger control. I'm no internet superstar, but I've become pretty good with an old, stock trigger. People in my company look at me funny when I balance a dime on the barrel and practice trigger pull before we go to the range. Those are the same guys that ask me how I shoot one solid hole in my zero target. 
I might have to try a set of those JP springs in my AR-15. Brand new springs are always so heavy (8-9lbs). |
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I have always mixed and matched stock trigger groups until I get a crisp break and minimal pre-travel. The rest of the trigger parts end up in used parts guns or a friends build. I only get to the range a few times a year and do not participate in competition, but when I get out of NY, I intend to spend much more time shooting.
I have never actually checked the lbs of pull, so how do you guys check? can you use a small fish scale or something. what is a good way to measure pull? Travis. Where are your courses held? I have been wanting to take some good courses. Most of my triger time over the years is bench shooting and I need something more. |
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I have always mixed and matched stock trigger groups until I get a crisp break and minimal pre-travel. The rest of the trigger parts end up in used parts guns or a friends build. I only get to the range a few times a year and do not participate in competition, but when I get out of NY, I intend to spend much more time shooting. I have never actually checked the lbs of pull, so how do you guys check? can you use a small fish scale or something. what is a good way to measure pull? Travis. Where are your courses held? I have been wanting to take some good courses. Most of my triger time over the years is bench shooting and I need something more. I've got a question mark-shaped steel rod that you attach weights to that I use on M16s. I've never measured my AR-15, but I'm sure it's in the 8lbs region, just from personal experience. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hmmm I vaguely remember Travis saying something about "fancy triggers" being a waste of money... Travis...YOU LIE!! No... I'm not absolute, LOL and I have started that with the understandind that you don't need a fancey trigger to aquire good trigger control. I'm no internet superstar, but I've become pretty good with an old, stock trigger. People in my company look at me funny when I balance a dime on the barrel and practice trigger pull before we go to the range. Those are the same guys that ask me how I shoot one solid hole in my zero target. I might have to try a set of those JP springs in my AR-15. Brand new springs are always so heavy (8-9lbs). May want to get the speed hammer along with those springs.Some had probs with light primer strikes |
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Hmmm I vaguely remember Travis saying something about "fancy triggers" being a waste of money... Travis...YOU LIE!!
No... I'm not absolute, LOL and I have started that with the understandind that you don't need a fancey trigger to aquire good trigger control. Oh so true. I've been working on a standard GI trigger for a while. Taking an Appleseed course really drove into my head the basics non-stop for 2 days, and watching the MagPul DVD's drove home points regarding what I heard at Appleseed that really - REALLY clicked in my head. "Don't let PERFECTION get in the way of GOOD ENOUGH" (in regards to grouping). Keep in mind that Appleseed is a totally different animal than the type of shooting we most often see Travis and Chris teach - it's simply another tool in the tool box. I've been doing copies of the BSA drill at my local range by cutting out a 9" circle COM on my target for a few months. I've still got some work to do with the handguns, but the rifle work has been a massive improvement. Watching and dissecting stances and grips, buttstock placement, cheekweld, etc., has really improved my recoil control within 25 yards for rapid "good enough" firing. Last night after finishing a drill at 15 yards I had two LEO's ask me what kind of full auto I was shooting. I showed them some different methods of holding the rifle to get the rifle to recoil straight back, instead of back and to the right, and they immediately saw a huge increase of speed in terms of getting the sights back onto the target. My cyclic rates aren't up to Haley speeds yet, but I'm working on it. The BSA drill has been one of the best training drills I've come across, next to shooting in a competitive pistol league. Only being shown shots that don't make the grade, and forcing yourself to the failure limit, backing down a bit, and speeding it back up slowly has made drastic strides for me. I'd imagine it would help more people if they did it as well. Thanks for the hole-cutting idea Travis, I'm hoping to get the spare cash and time off to attend one or two carbine courses with you and Chris next year. |
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Single stage, match triggers certainly helps for "trigger speed" Quoted:
As for the JP, I havent have to many problems with them and not had to maintain them much at all. One of the best consistant triggers I have used. Travis, which version of JP do you have? The modular one or the regualr one? Also, which springs(trigger weight) are you running? (yellow?) typically this is what I will run: JP Triggers JP Springs I can definitely vouch for the springs because I upgraded them as soon as I got my rifle and polished the sears on my stock trigger, this made my trigger pull much lighter and the break feels much cleaner. As for the JP trigger, looks like I should start saving up money
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It is always fun and informative watching guys at the top of their game. I shoot USPSA with some top level shooters. I have seen disected videos and their form is flawless. That is why I always find it funny when people try to take shortcuts such as flicking the safety off early or prepping the trigger before they are on target. One of these days I would love to take a carbine course
I got the wife to agree to me taking a course if (when) I make MSgt this year. 
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It is always fun and informative watching guys at the top of their game. I shoot USPSA with some top level shooters. I have seen disected videos and their form is flawless. That is why I always find it funny when people try to take shortcuts such as flicking the safety off early or prepping the trigger before they are on target. One of these days I would love to take a carbine course
I got the wife to agree to me taking a course if (when) I make MSgt this year. What did you get to do for your last promotion?
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Travis do you concern yourself with split times at all?
Since I got my pocket pro timer and started taking things serious instead of just blasting the bank I think I pay much more attention to trigger control and accuracy. I've gone from a 3.05 second 10 shot string in the A zone to 2.13 seconds from 7 yds in just a couple months. This is from a low ready and I'm not going to be happy until I shoot it under 2.00; any shot outside the A is an automatic do over. The shot timer, a few orange cones and some proper drills have done wonders for my attitude and abilities I think. Rambling on here but my point was to get your thoughts on shot timers, split times and first shot times etc for tactical/practical carbine work. Thanks! Roy |
| I agree on the JP triggers. I have several ARs with several triggers. A couple have Timneys, which have excellent pulls, but I've had trouble with them and have had to send them back to the factory for replacement, one of which had started doubling - firing on both the pull and release. The JP may not be my lightest trigger, but seems to be the most consistent. You can also get just the trigger, and combine it with a stock hammer, and have a pretty decent trigger, too. I've always been afraid of the adjustment screws on the JP moving, but haven't had any problems so far. |