Posted: 1/12/2010 8:58:09 AM EDT
Thought I'd pass along a few tips......maybe I'll get some in return.
Some of these are obvious, some maybe not so obvious. In no particular order: ––Establish an ash can in a safe spot, away from structures. Ash cans should be metal and have a lid. ––Always keep a pile of kindling on hand. At least a five day supply is a good thing. If you get sick, you won't want to be splitting kindling. ––Fill your indoor rick before it's empty. If you use a wood bag, fill that too once you have your indoor rick filled. Then you have a jump on the next time you need wood. ––If you keep an outdoor rick, never let it get below half full. Pulling wood off the main stack when it's dark and 5 degrees because you ran out at the house is......suboptimal. ––Split your wood to a variety of sizes so you can burn strategically. ––Try to always keep your stove running at optimal temperature (which may vary depending on your make/model). Always be thinking a half-hour ahead when it comes to adding wood. ––Keep a fire extinguisher and a Chimfex stick handy. ––Never delay cleaning the chimney. ––Put a steamer pot on top of the stove to add humidity. ––Burn only properly seasoned wood. Moist wood is wasteful and hard on stoves and chimneys. ––Stay off that air inlet as much as possible. Learn to burn with your air wide open and try to get away from choking the stove down to control the fire. Hot fires with lots of air make for clean burning. ––Close your flue damper ~2/3 on a hot fire and your stove'll throw more heat into the room. ––Close off areas of the house to concentrate the heat where you need it. Use fans as needed to move heat around. Keep in mind that if you're using nothing but the woodstove for heat that some areas of the house may get quite cold......gotta protect your water pipes. |
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Add the following:
- buy and maintain(batteries) a decent Carbon Monoxide detector. Yes. Woodstoves do sometimes generate CO2. My family and I are here only because we have CO2 detectors. Otherwise, a wood stove generated CO2 problem would have put us into the 'big sleep'. |
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Add the following: - buy and maintain(batteries) a decent Carbon Monoxide detector. Yes. Woodstoves do sometimes generate CO2. My family and I are here only because we have CO2 detectors. Otherwise, a wood stove generated CO2 problem would have put us into the 'big sleep'. I think you meant CO detector. CO= carbon monoxide. CO2= carbon dioxide. |
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I'll add these, I prefer to open the dampers and let my stove burn for several minutes after filling it each morning. This helps keep creosote from building up quickly. IT DOES NOT STOP the build up. It is better to blow cool air to the stove rather than try to move warm air away. |
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Learn your stove. I had mine installed the weekend before Thanksgiving. I've got the luxury of working from home, which has given me ample time to learn how to burn this thing. Keeping the coals forward, and adjusting the air intake to burn them down, etc. My mother-in-law likes to add wood when I step out (she babysits my little one two days a week to allow me to travel), this adds up to a big coal load if I don't watch it.
K |
| All good points. I follow all of those but one and that is the covered ash bucket. We have an old, steel, "hod" that we use and it is open topped. I am DAMN careful about what goes into it. If I ever replace it it will be with one of the Minuteman covered cans. Got to be careful with ashes. |
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Quoted:
Add the following: - buy and maintain(batteries) a decent Carbon Monoxide detector. Yes. Woodstoves do sometimes generate CO2. My family and I are here only because we have CO2 detectors. Otherwise, a wood stove generated CO2 problem would have put us into the 'big sleep'. I agree! We have one and could probably use another. Got any details on your CO event? Might help somebody out. |
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Back when I burned wood, I cut and stacked my wood by use. At one end, I had Silver Maple and some Ash. In the early winter I'd start on the maple and Ash. The Silver Maple didn't burn to good coals, but the Ash did. As the winter progressed to colder times in late November to Mid December, I now had access to Ash with a bit of Red Oak. Now I was getting good coals and nice steady heat. In late December and January, my cord wood was now Oak and Hickory. Man, that was almost as good as burning coal. Then the remaining stacks reversed. By the time I was willing to let the fire die, I was back to Silver maple. Cut, split, and stacked about 7-8 cord a year from my 8-acre woods I used to have. The wood burner was an Ashley air-tight stove.
Now I burn Anthracite and love it. I don't have the land anymore since we moved back in the early 90's. Cutting my own wood was good work, but now that I'm into my 60's, I don't really miss it. 
Groucho |
| at night i'll put in a couple BIG pieces of hickory/black locust and once it gets burning good i'll turn down the damper so the wood will slowly "roast" all night. in the morning i stir the coals to a nice flat bed and open the damper and close but barely latch the door. the draft will suck air thru the gap in the door to blow over the coals and heat them up. once the coals are glowing a nice orange i'll put in a couple good size pieces and again barely latch the door, once those pieces are burning with good flames i'll latch the door tight. i keep a shop vac nearby to suck up ashes that blow out whenever you open the door and dirt/dust that comes off the logs in the little rack next to the stove. for kindling i have a brush pile along one side of the property line, come fall i go and break off the tips of all the brush [snaps right off when dry] 1/4 inch -1/2 inch by 6 inches or so long. i fill up my wheel barrow with those and put them in a box in the breezeway [connects the house and garage] , a handful of them on top of balled up newspaper pages catch fire pretty good and provide enough heat and flame for bigger pieces of split kindling. |
Details on our CO (not CO2!  ) event...
We don't heat with wood. Our woodstove is merely a backup for those sorts of temporary events that happen in winter in the Northeast. We keep a couple facecords on hand. Between the generator (to run the NG furnace fans), kerosene heaters and woodstove we have several sources of heat. Sometimes I'll fire up the woodstove if the basement is chilly and I want to work down there. The particular event happened one Jan or Feb when it was cold (as in -20F) and blizzard-like conditions. I had fired up the stove, let it run for most of the morning and let it die down. Several hours later (six? eight? ten hours?) I was getting ready to go to bed. I ran downstairs and checked the woodstove. It was cold. I opened up the stove, looked inside and saw nothing but dead, gray ashes. I stirred it up some, checking for live coals. Nope nothing. Not wanting the cold air to draft inside the house through the pipe I closed the damper completely. Then I closed the doors and locked them tight too, closing the air vents, and went to bed. A couple hours later all hell broke loose. We had alarms going off. I kept pressing the smoke detector button (stupid when I'm half asleep) and then realized it was not the smoke detector. It was the CO Detector. It was reading 144 PPM if I remember correctly (more on this later). I grabbed jackets and got Mrs and Daughter outside by the patio door and then ran through the house openning windows (actually cracked a pane doing so). I was very much aware that the protocol for CO is "Get Out". However, the winter weather was such that a decent -20 degree wind blowing 30 mph ripped through the house. In the one to two minutes it took to open windows I could feel a massive drop in temperature. that meant cold fresh air. I could subsequently see the CO detector readings plummet... I knew that running through the house openning windows was NOT the recommended course of action but trust me: Air flow was GOOD! After getting the mainfloor cleared I ran downstairs. The CO detector down there was higher. It was the damned wood stove! I opened the draft, and cracked a door to the stove, as well as opened a few set of Bilco doors and windows. Again, tons of airflow (it was a damned blizzard!). Apparently I had missed a small coal or two. Those ashes were not as dead as I thought. The lack of air in the stove generated Carbon Monoxide. I learned a few lessons that night: 1) It's not dead. Don't dog the doors down tight until tomorrow. I will never, ever burn a stove with the air intakes nearly closed. I know it makes for an all night burn, but it creosotes the hell out of a chimney and the CO risk is too damned high. 2) I really REALLY like the CO detectors that show an actual numerical reading, rather than just sound an alarm. Since that time I have become even more convinced that the numerical readout type displays are superior to simple alarm-only units. Here is my rationale... If I understand these CO units correctly, they will alarm under one of two conditions. If you have a high CO level over a short period of time they will trip. If you have a lower level over an extended period of time they will also trip. Fair enough... What happens if you have a low level for a short period of time? It may not be life threatening, but I wanna know about it! The numerical displays are superior for a couple of reasons. You can monitor the CO levels during an event as I did (quite nice to see the unit go from 140ppm tom 100 to 80, to 60 and then zero in a span of a couple minutes). In addition, they provide a reading event when the alarm conditions are not met. I had a older stove in a camp. I'd periodically freshen it up with some stove black. On the first firing after blackening it would often stink a bit, giving off a little odor (CO is odorless, musta been something else off gassing as well) and the CO monitor would read somewhere in the low teens for 30 minutes or so. I then realized that being able to see a CO level, even if its too low to trip the alarm levels, is valueable. Mine here at home always read "0". Very small CO levels might not be enough to trip the alarm, but if they are registering on the monitor, it tells me something "not good" is happening. This is important, especially given that I run NG hot water, heat and cooking. Even if 8 or 10 PPM are not enough to trip an alarm, I wanna know. Its time to investigate and find out what is starting to go wrong before it gets to real trouble levels. I currently run four CO detectors in my home. Two are AC wall units with battery backup. Two are battery only units. One of each on each floor. I will not live without them. I've also bought a battery only unit for the hunt camp, and one for the pop-up camper. |
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––Keep a fire extinguisher and a Chimfex stick handy. Inspect that sucker and insure it's serviceable on a regular basis. I checked mine a few weeks ago at the cabin before firing up the stove and it had lost pressure. Kidde has a recall on a few particular units. |
| Ive been running a woodstove for years and use a empty soda can to keep the exhaust pipes clean from build up. Just throw one empty soda/beer can into a hot fire. As the can is consumed the minerals in the metal are released helping the pipes stay clean. At first I was skeptical but we just bought a new wood stove and pipe, much to my surprise nary a hint of creasote build up. This is what most loggers do for their stoves in this area. |
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Details on our CO (not CO2! ) event...
<snip> I currently run four CO detectors in my home. Two are AC wall units with battery backup. Two are battery only units. One of each on each floor. I will not live without them. I've also bought a battery only unit for the hunt camp, and one for the pop-up camper. That's a good cautionary tale and one that folks would do well to heed! (Note to self: buy a couple more CO detectors.) I've pretty much gotten away from closing off the air inlet on the stove at all. The only time I do it is when I've overloaded the stove and want to cool it off a bit. I sacrifice some burn time leaving the air wide open, particularly overnight, but still have coals in the morning for the next day's fire. |
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––Establish an ash can in a safe spot, away from structures. Ash cans should be metal and have a lid. I picked up a full-size galvanized trash can at Lowe's a few months back for just this purpose. It sits in the side yard, on concrete and five feet or so from anything flammable. Works great to collect the hot ashes from the ash pail I keep next to the stove for emptying it. I have heard many stories of people burning up walls and filling garages with smoke from 'cold' ashes. I tossed a 2-day old bucket into the corner of the backyard only to wash it smolder up, had to toss buckets of water onto it to keep the grass from catching. Definitely, take the time to learn your stove, where to damp it to and when. It'll run much more predictably if you've figured out how to run it properly. A cheap firestarter (for those time when it is really out), I use a single egg holder from a cardboard egg carton and a small 4-hour tea candle. Pull the candle out of the metal holder, remove the wick and place it into the egg holder. Light the cardboard after placing it under your kindling. This will give you a good 2-4 minutes of decent flames to ensure your kindling and all catches well. |
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Forgot this one: ––Get a magnetic stove thermometer and pay attention to it. Looking at the fire doesn't always tell you how hot the stove is running. +1 on that! Get one with a probe that goes in the flue. Magnetic ones are not reliable. Creosote insulates the pipe/stove and provides incorrect readings. The flue gas temperature is the one that matters most. -Do not "burn the stove hot" to clean the flue. This is called a chimney fire Small or not, the cumulative damage done to the flue from several smaller chimney fires (i.e. unnoticed) can weaken the flue and prevent it from doing it's job in the event of a violent fire.
-Do purchase Cre-away powder and use as directed to ensure less build-up and easier/more thorough sweeps. -Do use seasoned wood and do not use wood that has snow etc. on it. Keep wood stored in a driy place. Moist wood = cooler fires. Cooler fires =cooler flue gas temperatures=more creosote build-up. Moist wood also smolders and adds more combustible gases to the exhaust. More gasses to condensate + cooler flue temperatures = Really bad creosote. -Do not damp down fires to make them last. Smoldering = creosote. -Do understand newer high tech appliances and burn them correctly. Burning them incorrectly can create crazy creosote problems. |
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Get one with a probe that goes in the flue. Magnetic ones are not reliable. Creosote insulates the pipe/stove and provides incorrect readings. The flue gas temperature is the one that matters most. Do you think the magnetic thermometers are better than nothing? I had asked our sweep about a flue thermometer when we rebuilt our chimney in '08. IIRC, he told me our pipe coming off the stove is double-wall and "It's better to not drill through that." What's your take on that? ETA Note to Self: Look for some Cre-Away powder. |
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Get one with a probe that goes in the flue. Magnetic ones are not reliable. Creosote insulates the pipe/stove and provides incorrect readings. The flue gas temperature is the one that matters most. Do you think the magnetic thermometers are better than nothing? I had asked our sweep about a flue thermometer when we rebuilt our chimney in '08. IIRC, he told me our pipe coming off the stove is double-wall and "It's better to not drill through that." What's your take on that? ETA Note to Self: Look for some Cre-Away powder. The magnetic ones are another tool in the tool box. Coupled with some comon sense and history with the stove you will run your stove a lot more efficiently and safer. I am confused about your "double wall" pipe tho. Usually that means fresh air between the pipes? I have never heard of that on a woodstove. Usually its either regular stove pipe to a thimble in the wall or some sort of Metalbestos or equal which should not be drilled, but which a magnetic thermometer would be useless on. |
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I am confused about your "double wall" pipe tho. Usually that means fresh air between the pipes? I have never heard of that on a woodstove. Usually its either regular stove pipe to a thimble in the wall or some sort of Metalbestos or equal which should not be drilled, but which a magnetic thermometer would be useless on. Dunno......maybe I misunderstood what he was telling me? We're going hunting together in a couple weeks––I'll ask him to clarify.
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Get one with a probe that goes in the flue. Magnetic ones are not reliable. Creosote insulates the pipe/stove and provides incorrect readings. The flue gas temperature is the one that matters most. Do you think the magnetic thermometers are better than nothing? I had asked our sweep about a flue thermometer when we rebuilt our chimney in '08. IIRC, he told me our pipe coming off the stove is double-wall and "It's better to not drill through that." What's your take on that? ETA Note to Self: Look for some Cre-Away powder. The magnetic ones are another tool in the tool box. Coupled with some comon sense and history with the stove you will run your stove a lot more efficiently and safer. I am confused about your "double wall" pipe tho. Usually that means fresh air between the pipes? I have never heard of that on a woodstove. Usually its either regular stove pipe to a thimble in the wall or some sort of Metalbestos or equal which should not be drilled, but which a magnetic thermometer would be useless on. Magnetic is better than nothing. The double-wall connector is OK to drill through IMO. red The double wall pipe he is referring to is the length of pipe referred to as the chimney connector. This is the length visible in the room. Double walled pipe is preferred in this situation even though single wall "gives off more heat". Double walled pipe A.) reduces clearances to combustibles B.) has a stainless inner liner (MUCH more longevity) C.} Helps maintain higher flue gas temperatures particularly at start up which helps reduce creosote problems. Feral, if you want I can order some cre-away powder at my price and send it out to you. |
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How to Burn
+1 on the flue pipe thermometer. Don't put it on the stove. Additionally it should be exiting gas you are reading, right out of the stove, not 3 feet above. if you have a fireplace insert, place it on top, as far back near the flue as possible...much better than nothing. If you have a stove, or wood species, that is causing that much interior build-up as to render a magnetic thermometer totally innaccurate, you really should assess the situation. You shouldn't get that kind of build-up the first couple of feet out of the stove? Further up as the gasses are cooling, maybe. *The biggest sin of woodburning in a stove is running the stove too cool. A lot of people are in search of the Longest Burn time, which is nice, but, running it too coolis where the CO problems and creosote all develop. My wood stove does secondary burning, as long as it's running at the proper temperature. I keep my flue reading in the orange zone of the thermometer, with a bias toward at least halfway into the orange zone, but preferably 2/3rds to 3/4 of the way toward red. I burn black cherry, locust and some oak. After an entire season my flue pipes and chimney do not have any build-up to speak of. Some dry soot, that's about it. When starting a cold stove, here is what i do.... Open the door of the stove and open the air 100% full open. Do not light immediately, natural daft will occur, give it 3 to 5 minutes. A lot of times I may be hauling wood inside, so opening and closes the door also helps induce a better draft. use "clean" fast burning kindling. it's better to stay away from barked woods as kindling, if at all possible. When starting the flue gasses are cool, and the junkier the kindling and starting wood, the more potential build-up you can cause. A Fast Hot start-up is what you want with plenty of draft. Don't cut air or dampen until the stove is into the proper operating temperature. When splitting wood I collect wheel barrows full of wood shavings and chips, no bark. Excellent kindling. I also am mindful to split down a small pile into kindling from the main logs. I have been relying less and less on sticks gathered the past 3 or 4 seasons, and it seems to make a difference on start-up and leaves the flue pipe cleaner. Aother tip, when cleaning the firebox leave any black charcoal chunks that are leftover. They are fuel and will burn, and burn cleanly. I see some ashpiles at other folks houses that are just full of a lot of black charcoal chunks. They are probably burning a low fire, and it's leaving a lot of charcoal at the end of the burn. If it's warming up outside, and you know you are near the end of the fire, and going to allow it to go out, open up the AIR all the way, let it go out rapidly, with a quick full burn. Allowing it to smolder itself to completion also creates more smoke, soot and creosote. There is a temperature range for clean burning, the idea is get to that range as quickly as reasonably possible, and maintain it throughout the entire burn. Even a campfire will burn relatively clean and smokeless once you get the temperature in the proper zone. Fuel: -Season and dry that firewood! -Keep the pile covered during burn season so it doesn't get rained or snowed on. -Wet wood is no good for a woodstove. dry it out first. -Bring the wood inside well before usage, cold wood doesn't burn as well initially. -Try to use the highest quality wood you have in your area. remove bark if/when possible. |
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I am new to burning wood.... and I'm going to be changing how I do some things on account of this thread..... Question about creosote: when is it time to sweep the chimney? I have burned for a good month off and on... (my wood supply has been slow––-). I went up and checked the liner yesterday and I could see some formation... even some 0.25" creosote "icicles" on the top of the chimney cap. The liner itself ( a 6" stainless flex liner, not insulated) has a paper thin coating of creosote - black, a little oily and flaky. When should you sweep? Is there a set time or amount of build-up?  |
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I considered a metal ash bucket, but I came up with what I think is a much better solution.
I take a 5 gallon plastic bucket and fill it with about 2 - 3 gallons of water. When I dump my ashes in there, they don't blow all over the room (the water helps keep most of the airborne ashes down). Also, any embers will get extinguished while submerged in water. Also, it is cheaper. Also, I have 2-3 gallons of water immediately available if the fire gets out of control (it's always sitting by the fireplace). I do dump the ashes into the bucket very slowly - just in case there happens to be a large chunk of wood still burning in the ashes. I don't want it dropping to the bottom and being insulated by a layer of ashes and burning a hole in my bucket. But I haven't had any troubles at all, and I've been doing this for about a year and a half. |
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I considered a metal ash bucket, but I came up with what I think is a much better solution. I take a 5 gallon plastic bucket and fill it with about 2 - 3 gallons of water. When I dump my ashes in there, they don't blow all over the room (the water helps keep most of the airborne ashes down). Also, any embers will get extinguished while submerged in water. Also, it is cheaper. Also, I have 2-3 gallons of water immediately available if the fire gets out of control (it's always sitting by the fireplace). I do dump the ashes into the bucket very slowly - just in case there happens to be a large chunk of wood still burning in the ashes. I don't want it dropping to the bottom and being insulated by a layer of ashes and burning a hole in my bucket. But I haven't had any troubles at all, and I've been doing this for about a year and a half. Are you working with a fireplace or a wood stove? I can see that method working very well for a fireplace. But if I was doing that with the ash pan for the wood stove, I'd be messier doing that than just taking the ash pan outside and dumping it in a pail. I spill virtually no ash inside when I carry the pan outside for dumping. If I were trying to dump it inside I'd make a mess no matter what I was dumping it into. I dump our ash pan every morning and it's usually near full and pretty hot. It's part of my morning ritual......get up, make coffee, feed cats, dump ash pan, light stove with remaining embers, drink coffee, check arfcom.
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I am new to burning wood.... and I'm going to be changing how I do some things on account of this thread..... Question about creosote: when is it time to sweep the chimney? I have burned for a good month off and on... (my wood supply has been slow––-). I went up and checked the liner yesterday and I could see some formation... even some 0.25" creosote "icicles" on the top of the chimney cap. The liner itself ( a 6" stainless flex liner, not insulated) has a paper thin coating of creosote - black, a little oily and flaky. When should you sweep? Is there a set time or amount of build-up?
You need a sweep now. You also need to insulate that liner and ensure better fuel. Wood needs to be seasoned. i would go purchase a product called Cre-away and apply it per instructions. This will dry the glazed creosote and make it more brittle and less flammable. FWIW when you get tarcicles forming, you have serious condensation issues. It can be fuel, draft, installation, burning technique, or a combination of all the above. Have a good sweep come check it out and question him thoroughly. With the right conditions dangerous levels of creosote can form literally overnight in modern woodstoves. Resist the advice of the neighborhood handyman to "get it really hot" and burn it out. You will be intentionally starting a chimney fire. While your house is not likely to burn down from it, each chimney fire weakens the chimney and one time it may fail. Then your house is likely to burn down, or at least be severely damaged. |
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Just a note for anyone reading this thread looking to have a WB fireplace insert installed in their fireplace:
Any company who tells you you do not need to insulate the liner does not deserve to be in your home. The liner does not simply provide insulation from heat. It also: Establishes a strong draft faster, maintains a stronger draft, reduces creosote deposits, AND protects from heat transfer. Some fly-by-nighters even remove the clay tiles and drop an uninsulated liner down the hatch. Not good. Many appliances and codes call for the stove to be installed according to its UL listing. 99% of the time this includes insulating the liner. Anything less does not fit the way the chimney and/or aplliance was designed to operate. |