No, it's an apropos comment about Zippos being maintenance intensive and unreliable in a thread about lighters.

Safest to keep the flame moving, and warming things up in 10 - 30 second bursts (trying the lock between bursts) when using those to thaw locks.

I think the only valid comparison is between the Thyrm case, and similar gasketed cases.  Against an un-gasketed zippo case, I believe the Thyrm should show some improvement.

Are you saying the Thyrm case does not hold fuel longer than the typical un-gasketed zippo case?

Not trying to argue, nor disparaging your remarks, which I respect.  Just asking for clarification.

Much obliged for helpful comment.  I reckon a little "thread diversion" as long as it's generally useful, will be tolerated.

That's exactly what I did; No sense in over-doing things.  TYVM for good advice.

Another option -
Martatac Peanut lighter

Sorry if you took my light-hearted comment askance; no offense intended.

I hope readers of this thread are learning more about lighters then before reading it.  I sure have.

Zippos have their uses.  I found an ancient, much-corroded Zippo buried in my lawn and sent it off to Zippo who replaced everything except the engraved lower case.  Free, except for postage to them, IIRC.

Are there "better" liquid-fueled lighters than Zippo?  YES, and unquestionably so.  Examples abound in this thread.  Is there better customer service/warranty than offered by Zippo?   Likely not, given the level of customer service/warranty service I've personally seen from Zippo. It would be hard for me to imagine better warranty service than offered by Zippo, but perhaps such stellar warranty service is available from other mfrs/vendors.  IDK.

I long ago considered typical Zippos as UNSAT as far as unavoidable fuel evap from the wick is concerned.

The different gasketed cases, and the "capped" inserts might solve that problem.  Looking forward to receiving the items and reporting on them.

Until then, learning from folks who make instructive and useful comments.

That's how we all learn.

I have some Maratac lighters of various sizes/materials. Well-made items, but unfortunately, their unshielded flame is highly vulnerable to winds.

While the Maratac lighters are well-sealed against wick-induced fuel evap, they are probably less capable of producing a reliable flame than the common zippo or bic lighter.

Very useful as SHTF items in Zero-Wind conditions.  Aside from that, not so much.  YMMV.

I keep one of the titanium ones on my keychain for just-in-case use. Have to remind myself to refill it at least quarterly, because even with the cap screwed on, the lighter fluid eventually all evaporates. IIRC, by ~6 months, mine was dry/empty.

This may not be a lighter but I still stand by the idea that a 1/2” ferro rod 6 inches long and tinder is the best lighter around. It was 4 degrees below and wind in the 30 mph range here.Long after any battery powered or butane powered lighters would be waaaaaay out of commission.

I can warm up a butane lighter for minutes in my armpit if I want to but if I want a fire immediately I don’t trust a bic or butane lighter. If it is dire, to get warm as fast as medically safe to. The old rule of survival is the rule of 3. There hours of exposure to the elements before death(extremely harsh weather like subzero and arctic wind.) 3 days without water. 3 weeks without food. Even if I have to wait 5 minutes to warm a butane lighter that’s still 5 minutes off of my 3 hour lifespan in the most dire weather. I don’t want to waste a second if I don’t have to. That’s why I’m so deliberately stubborn about the absolute most reliable, easy to use, fastest to get results around.

Imagine if you were Luke in Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back. Those are the the scenarios I think of when I think of when I think of the very best lighter. Now he didn’t have any trees to burn.

I rewatched A cry in the wild the other day. That’s the movie about the book Hatchet. A match or a butane lighter would have been ok for him as in the movie it was above freezing. The ease of starting a fire is always related to temperature. The warmer it is the easier it is. It is a game of BTUs. BTUs are a measure of total energy not temperature but they’re related.

I almost think the very best lighter ever made is probably a candle and a ferro rod. Enormous amounts of BTUs. It never evaporates, it is durable if it’s a candle with a high melting point and carried in a protective case. It will burn many times longer than ANY lighter, it is waterproof, small, cheap, high temperature, can be held and placed into hard to reach areas and spread the heat source around. Never depends on any temperature whatsoever to ignite. Common. It can be ignited fairly easily by ferro rod but take some skill. Carrying a small waterproof tinder like a Vaseline cotton ball in a canister or wax paper will easily ignite from a spark of a ferro rod.

I’m still learning at about BTUs but flame puts out a lot more BTUs than a ferro rod spark. I would classify the BTUs like so:

Ferro rod ? Low to moderate because it’s brief
Lighters (bic) 3200-3500 BTUs
Candles of 4” tall 1” wide ? Not sure but many more than a bic lighter
Magnesium  more than lighters


Here is a chart of very useful materials for an ignition source:

Bic Lighters………………………1900 F continuous
Candles ………………………….2500 F continuous
Average campfire..600F to 2200F peak continuous
Ferro Rod  …………………   3000-5000 F momentarily
Thermite    …………………   4000 F continuous
Magnesium  ………………… 4000 F Continuous
White Phosphorus ……..,….,4800 F Continuous,
Arc Welding…………6500-10,000 F continuous


The zippo in a gasket sealed case comes in pretty well too as does a maratac xl peanut lighter and a Exotac Titan lighter. I think the Exotac is the easiest to use of the peanut lighters. You must think about cold fingers and loss of dexterity in conditions of 30mph winds and subzero temps. Matches, mainly those like the UCO stormproof matches are another stellar fire lighter.

If we’re talking only lighters I conclude the very best for just about any scenario and in any temp and any weather. It has got to be a zippo fluid based lighter with a gasket seal. For a general purpose any weather any temperature ignition source a stormproof match and a ferro rod. Preferably a case to keep the ferro rod in as they will dissolve in extremely humid conditions.

Ferro rods, along with an attached striker are utterly reliable.   What some don't know is that ferro rods suffer from moisture-induced corrosion.  Most Ferro rods come coated from the factory with a coating that inhibits their corrosion.  Once used, the coating needs to be replaced if the item will be put into long-term storage.

I've had originally "red" coated Zippo flints (same item as "ferro rods") disintegrate into dust inside a sealed, non-fueled lighter.  Yes, took many years, but still......

love the movie but that scene always makes me laff as a regular and practiced Zippo user.

i have a couple of the Soto torches from REI.

use those with cheap lighters from the dollar store.

you'll like it.

*nervous laughter*

Your above comments fully understood and concurred.

SOTO has a good reputation amongst many different products.

Concur with almost all of the above, EXCEPT the "windproofness" (if such a word in English language) of the ignition source.  Maratac lighters, lacking any sort of windscreen are vulnerable to wind, IMHO.

I respect your valuable comments.  I differ in some ways from your conclusions, but that does not say either of us is "right".

Most often wet and especially wind will be worst enemies in starting a fire, wind often being the worst problem.  I've tried to use magnesium scrapings from known, GTG sources.  Without wind shielding, they blow away.  With adequate wind-shielding, probably OK to ignite even wet tinder.   Maybe not.

I always strongly suggest that users try to start fires in their backyards, under dark, windy, and wet conditions in order to see how difficult starting a fire might be.

Some personal experience will prove highly useful.

As mentioned, my backup backwoods firestarter is a UST Blastmatch.

Biggest advantage to me, vs a ferro rod and striker, is that the Blastmatch can be used 1-handed. A thin coating of wax before storage, helps protect against corrosion/humidity.

I have some BlastMmatch devices, and I concur that their "one-handed" usability might be highly useful.  No expert on such, other than initial trial usage.

Being able to use any sort of fire-starter "one-handed" is an often overlooked and potentially essential issue.

i carry and use both petrol Zippos and bics for this exact reason.

Zipo with  piezo insert or a Cigar  lighter.

I agree windproof ness needs addressed. I also agree entirely that more people need to practice in cold, dark windy wet conditions to understand the reality of how hard it can be if you don’t have the proper knowledge, tools or skill.

Also the other poster who pointed out the blast match for one handed operation, that’s very smart too. The large ferro rods can be used one handed too if you raise the spine of the knife off of the ground with a wrist thick to fist size stick, step on the handle to hold it down and pull the ferro rod up, HARD to send sparks down into the tinder. This of course requires more steps than just a blast match for one handed fire starting.

One handed, in the cold, dark, wet makes you a master at firestarting. It also makes it extremely clear the need to have a source of ignition that burns for MINUTES at a minimum. I’m thinking of Vaseline cotton balls here. You’ll need to get out of the wind. Vaseline cotton balls will burn for at least 2 minutes with flames 3-5” high and should dry out almost any slightly damp wood if it’s pencil thick. Pencil lead thick is preferable

I believe this thread was originally begun as a thread concerned about "best" pocket lighter, and not necessarily "best" SHTF lighter.

Suggest there is room for both separate topics, since there is some overlap.

Suggest a separate thread on separate cold/wet/wind suitable fire-starting devices.

road flare.

lolol Ive thought the same in Prison movies. Guy gets out the joint after a 10 year bid, puts on his surprisingly wrinkle free suit, fires up his Zippo to smoke a freedom cig...

True dat, but probably not suitable for pocket EDC, let alone multiple usage, lol.

This is what I use around the house, starting fires outside, burning bugs, lighting birthday candles, occasionally soldering, whatever else.  Highly recommend, but not very pocket friendly, definitely can’t be edc’d.

i see an untapped market here.

Yep. Vaseline dipped cotton balls are GREAT tinder. What's even easier is that dryer lint works just as well (actually better, when it's dryer lint from something like synthetic fleece), and you don't need to even buy the cotton balls.

Kinda miss ye olde little plastic 35mm camera film cans. Those things are perfect for stuffing the vaseline dipped firestarters into. The can weighs next to nothing (although opening it 1-handed while hypothermic and shivering, with numb fingers, sounds like it might be problematic, you can actually just stomp on it and it'll pop open).

Orion actually makes a small, pocketable flare called the Fire Pit Pro. ~6" long. ~4-5 minute burn time.

perfect.

Merry Christmas everyone

Got the Thyrym 2.0 today (along with this spiffy V40 replica).

Fueled it up, and I will report back on how long the fuel lasts. It's now Dec 25; if it lasts till Jan 25 or more I'd rate it as a success.

I will say ergonomically, a tiny lanyard like I've added makes a world of difference. You want something short with a fat knot to anchor your pinky against, as the nature of the short case + huge button means you effectively only have a 1 finger grip on the lighter.

35mm Plastic Film Cannisters

Black/Translucent both available from same mfr.  Shop around, as bulk-buying is possible.

Merry Christmas to you, and everyone else!

Looking forward to your 1-month report.  May I suggest you put the Thyrm-cased lighter in some sort of environment where it will mostly stay warm?  This would mimic the Thyrm lighter being carried in pants pocket, the added heat aiding in fuel evap.

Awesome! For some reason it never occurred to me to look on Amazon

There are a zillion different liquid fueled lighters out there.  Some far better made than others--even though they look alike.  

From what I've seen, read, and personally experienced, the common Zippo lighters waste a lot of fuel primarily because fuel evap from the wick, and secondarily from fuel evap from bottom of lighter insert.

There are aftermarket cases, with an "O-ring" between cap and case that will help reduce fuel evap.  There are plastic inserts for the bottom of the lighter insert that may reasonably "seal" the bottom of typical Zippo liquid fueled insert.  I have heard reports of some of these "bottom-case" plastic inserts "shrinking" over time, and thus becoming useless.  Suggest trying different mfrs/vendors of such in order to obtain "non-shrinking" bottom case inserts, which apparently exist.  There are aftermarket Zippo inserts with a "cap" for the wick, and a brass insert for the bottom of the insert.

IMHO, the most effective substitute "Zippo" inserts have a "cap' over the wick, which eliminates, or at least greatly reduces fuel evap from the wick.

I'm pursuing this "Zippo-related" theme because I have lots of Zippo lighters, and because it's a useful intellectual exercise for me, because I like to tinker.

Aside from superlative Zippo warrantee and customer service, I would never buy a Zippo nowadays, already owning some.  IMHO, too Damn much inherant fuel wastage.

At some point, such fuel wastage might be problematic, possibly life-threatening.

Looking forward to reporting on new items which solve most common Zippo issues.

Not sure why Zippo does not offer such "options". Perhaps they are "comfortable" with current offerings; perhaps such devices are too expensive to domestically produce.

Suggest that Zippo company might not be so damn "comfortable: in the future.  US car makers initially laughed at Japanese car makers.

If you're not hiking, a butane soldering torch is a great alternative. It'll light any fire without much effort and is easy to refill from a compact butane can.

Looking into such torches and have much to learn.  Will buy one eventually, after due research.  OTOH, no substitute for an EDC, pocket-carried lighter.

How are those Exotac lighters on fuel evap?

One con seems to be needing 2 hands to unscrew the cap.

Being O-ring sealed, very little fuel evap from wick, as long as it's sealed.   If need be, a stick can be slid through the slot in the cap, the body of the lighter held somehow, and the cap unscrewed.  A light film of suitable O-ring grease on the O-ring and on the threads of the body/cap will greatly help.

Suggest practicing one-handed cap removal before it becomes necessary.

Decent kit, but it has its' limitations, as you've noted.  After playing with it, I hate to say it, but I cannot recommend it.  YMMV.

Thanks. Guess I'll stick with the Windmill lighters.

It's well-made kit, albeit expensive.  Might serve well in some instances, for some folks.

For the civilized world of electricity and recharging and indoors I would probably choose an electric rechargeable lighter or a hot flameless lighter.

Bic Easy Reach

I keep these in my gear, Zippo's are horrible.

So Thrym was filled 12/25, and on 12/28 it was no longer lighting, despite smelling heavily of fuel. Each day prior to this the flame has been lower, and on the 27th I smelled a bit of the wick burning. The lighter has been carried in my back left pocket this whole time.

My hypothesis is that the thick polymer case is producing a thermal barrier between my body heat and the metallic Zippo core. And without that heat warming up the zippo core, the naptha fuel is not vaporizing adequately to light.

I've now refilled the lighter - very little fuel was required to return it to full. I'll report back to see if this is a fluke of a repeat problem.

This is a good point, many of the smaller rods are more susceptible to corrosion (like the Exotac ones, and those in Zippos). I will say that when I carried a Zippo, I kept an extra wick and a couple extra flints in the base with the cotton padding and they never showed any signs of corrosion.

For my larger rods, I specifically look for the “Misch” versions as they tend to be produced with a higher concentration of magnesium and have been pretty much corrosion free over the past decade or so (and I get more reliable strikes with larger, molten-sparks).  Another trick for long term storage, is to clean them with a little alcohol and make sure they’re dry and then coat them with clear fingernail polish to seal them. It still pays to do a quick annual check on any kits with ferro rods.

Yes, those Orion “Fire Pit Pro” starters are excellent. They’re rated for a 7 minute burn time, but I’ve found them usually about 5-6 minutes. Still, with tinder and enough smaller kindling ready to go, I can have a “warming” fire in 2-3 minutes with this flare. Not a good “pocket” kit, but I keep one in my Line-2 kits and any small sling or daypack when out.



ROCK6

The Delta Turbo arrived today. Considering it shipped from Japan, that's not bad at all.

A little thicker (with the rubber armor) than a Zippo, but smaller than the Quest/Trekker and will work for leaving it in my Winter jacket just-in-case.

Like the Quest/Trekker, I like that it has the rubber armor and 2 retention devices to keep it closed, but the devices can be disengaged and the lighter ignited 1-handed.

P.S.

I don't think the seller was supposed to ship the thing fueled, but that was how it arrived. Lol

same guts as the Windmill JP Turbo?

Not familiar enough with Windmill lighters to know. I'll defer to the guys who seem to know a lot more about them.

For someone who uses a lighter regularly (smokers), I'd think the JP would be the better choice. It appears to have an O-ring, but it looks like it flips open like a Zippo.

Seems a better choice between that and the all-metal case that would probably be better for something that's handled a couple dozen times a day, every day, vs the Delta Turbo with the 2 retention catches and rubber armor (that experience has shown will eventually become uncleanably grimy/dirty looking. The orange rubber armor on my OG Quest/Trekker isn't bright orange anymore ). *** looks like the same seller from Japan also has the Delta Turbo in Black, which would mitigate the grimy look issue somewhat.

Recently received the brushed aluminum bodied JP "Windproof" Windmill lighter.  IDK how much lighter the plastic-bodied equivalents might be, but IMHO the HINGE on these cases is the most vulnerable/wear/damage point as regards the case.  The Aluminum-cased units seem very stout in this respect.  Time will tell.  Any of these Windmill gas-fueled lighters are likely to be serviceable even if the hinge becomes damaged and/or the cap detached.

Owning an aluminum-bodied JP "Windproof" Windmill lighter, I find myself not much interested in the plastic bodied (and plastic hinged) variants.  YMMV.

IDK if the "guts" are the same or different.

As a former long time smoker, I consider myself informed.
BIC is the bomb. Most reliable. Works in cold weather (cheap butane lighters struggle). Won't splode in your car in the summer. (cheap butane lighters splode)
Will recover from being dropped in water quickly.