Posted: 12/8/2012 9:54:00 AM EDT
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Since my divorce/separation my daughter and I have gotten into prepping/survival stuff. Anyway our BOL is about a 45 min drive from our home. I was just wondering if the situation should arise that forces us to bug out on foot how far could I reasonably expect to travel per day. We would be traveling through exclusively rural, sparsely populated areas. I know as the crow flies I could shorten the distance but it would still be a good distance on foot. We are both fit and healthy but she is only 7 so I know we wouldn't cover an extreme amount of ground. Anybody have any thoughts?
Just trying to get a plan together that covers most everything. Better to have it and not need it than need and not have it, plan for the worst and hope for the best etc, etc.... |
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My youngest is 7 also. That seriously limits your travel by foot. We would be doing good to make 8 miles a day with children that young. If it were just us grown folks, and we've practiced with our BOB, we may be able to do ~20-25 miles a day...maybe. Cross country is rough going.
I've invested in bicycles for every member of the family and a bike trailer for my bike to help us along a little further, if the need arises, but still with the little ones, it'll be slow going. |
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I'm guessing BOL implies that you aren't taking much with you. When I was younger I did some time in the White Mountains, lots of up and down with a decent sized pack. 3-man teams with tents and what not. Relatively rough terrain. We made about 5 miles/day with a late start and early camp. We weren't really trying to make distance. Traveling lean and with some urgency, you could probly make 7-8 miles in that terrain, flatter, probly more. The problem is, if you take nothing, what happens if you show up to nothing, ie. your BOL is uninhabitable, inaccessible, burned to the ground or worse, inhabited by someone else?
Recently, when I lost the chain on my mountain bike I walked 8 miles of flat trail (with a bike) in about 3 hours. It all depends on loadout and terrain. (Which reminds me, if your bug out plan involves bikes, make sure they are in good order and that you have parts and can fix them on the run. If one goes down, your whole party slows to a walking pace...or you split up...) |
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Quoted: Since my divorce/separation my daughter and I have gotten into prepping/survival stuff. Anyway our BOL is about a 45 min drive from our home. I was just wondering if the situation should arise that forces us to bug out on foot how far could I reasonably expect to travel per day. We would be traveling through exclusively rural, sparsely populated areas. I know as the crow flies I could shorten the distance but it would still be a good distance on foot. We are both fit and healthy but she is only 7 so I know we wouldn't cover an extreme amount of ground. Anybody have any thoughts? Just trying to get a plan together that covers most everything. Better to have it and not need it than need and not have it, plan for the worst and hope for the best etc, etc.... Have you done any study about bugging out on foot? Or Did you just watch some TV show and say OMG OMG OMG BBQ then look through Arfcom, find the SF, and post this? If you really want to talk about this I may be able to later today, but If you just want to be a reality TV star I cannot help you. PA |
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Ok here are a few facts: 1. If you die on the way then there is a VERY HIGH chance that your daughter will die too. 2. This trip will probably take 6 days on foot. 3. Groups that have had to bug out on foot have suffered 50% fatalities during the journey. See item one and think carefully about your girl's life if she is 3 days walk from family and you have just died. If you want to do this and live, then I humbly suggest that you pay close attention to Waldo and learn to backpack camp. You should begin with modest overnight stays during good weather and build your and your girl's endurance. When you two plan your vacation between Christmas and New Year to include a wilderness camp in the Yukon then I would say that you could safely Bug Out on foot. |
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I don't think it's as impossible as you're making it sound. He's only going 60 miles or less. Look to history and the holocaust survivors who had to walk on foot across difficult country with no (or few) supplies and malnutrition. And many had to walk hundreds of miles. Sure, many died. But many survived. The OP would be starting out in much better shape and prepared for the trek.
If he had a motorcycle or a bike with a trailer for the kid-- even better. |
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I did not say it was not possible. I also have read the book about walking out of the gulag in Siberia. Half died. In the OP's party there are 2. Can the OP afford to go where the odds of half of his party die??? Now let us look at the demographics of the OP's group. One adult male and one 7 year old female. How would the adult male feel if the girl dies??? What would the girl's chances be if the man dies??? OP there is a reason that you see refugees pushing carts, dragging wagons, and riding tractors. There is a reason that wheeled vehicles have replaced horses. You can look back through the archives in this section and see that between about 2007 and 2011 I might have been familiar with moving kids on bicycles  |
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10-15 miles a day if you start training by hiking and camping.
Large part of this is going to be how much you carry or drag around with you. I can bug out sans guns and ammo with total pack weight including winter weight clothing and sleep system for 16 pounds including food and 2 liters of water. Add in a rifle 6 mags and pistol and 2 mags and I'm up to maybe 30 pounds total weight. You don't need 100pound pack and 1k of ammo to bug out. If I end up on foot my goal is to move quickly and quietly. Haul ass to get to where I'm going, no open fires, no giant Rambo firefights, no playing heroics. Also have to accept that people will die and atrocities will take place. Women will be raped, people will be killed, and you'll most likely see children alone, hungry, and dead. You cannot save everyone, protect your family and keep moving. |
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The ideal solution would be to relocate. BO on foot with young children would e impossible. you are looking at MAYBE 10 miles a day. You won't be able to use roads as the BG's would be watching the road and waiting for a soft target. Kids tend to cry when upset and would be like running an air raid siren. No child is gonna go a week without food, so add that on to your pack, Bad weather? You'll need a tent and fartsacks. Does your 7 yr old know how to handle firearms? Why not?
I've seen little girls refuse to pee in the woods b/c they were trained to use the toilet. As my friend PA has suggested, you need to try a backpack campout with your daughter before you even think about this. After careful considering all of this, we left promising careers in a major metropolitan area and moved t a far more rural area. Our possibility of BO here is very, very small. I also had our youngest learn how to handle firearms as soon as possible. At age 5 he was plinking with a 22, and by age 8 he could handle an AR as well as anyone. I wish you luck, you will sure as hell need it. Ops |
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This is going to sound horribly wrong but I would look into a plastic tub wheel barrow with an airless tire and some camo netting/sniper veil.
Throw your unrolled sleeping bag in the bottom...toss in your daughter, a couple small toys and your ruck and rifle and start pushing. You can hide out of sight with the netting and local brush breaking up your silhouette as needed. IF you walk with her...at some point, your daughter will want to be carried...then yur done for the day or you'll twist an ankle from her squirming. |
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Quoted:
Since my divorce/separation my daughter and I have gotten into prepping/survival stuff. Anyway our BOL is about a 45 min drive from our home. I was just wondering if the situation should arise that forces us to bug out on foot how far could I reasonably expect to travel per day. We would be traveling through exclusively rural, sparsely populated areas. I know as the crow flies I could shorten the distance but it would still be a good distance on foot. We are both fit and healthy but she is only 7 so I know we wouldn't cover an extreme amount of ground. Anybody have any thoughts? Just trying to get a plan together that covers most everything. Better to have it and not need it than need and not have it, plan for the worst and hope for the best etc, etc.... My guess is no more than 5-10 miles a day, given mostly flat and level terrain that is not especially difficult to walk on. Probably more realistic to be < 5 miles after a day or two. Bush whacking or hilly terrain you will be lucky to do 3-5 miles a day. I don't know what 45 minutes means - 45 miles maybe? I think this is an unrealistic scenario given she is not going to be carrying much in the way of gear or supplies, but is going to need 30-50 pounds of gear and supplies to get through the likely 10+ days of the proposed journey. take her out on a 10 mile hike in the woods and see how she does. that will tell you a lot. my guess is you are lucky to get much further than 2 or 3 miles before she poops out. |
| Your average adult can walk about 2 miles in an hour, unloaded. With your 7 year old, I would expect no more then 5 or 6 in a day. i can tell you that a bicycle will be your saving grace. We have 5 kids one being a 9 year old girl and we ride 4-6 miles a night without any real issue, and that is just before bed time. So I am confident that 10-15 miles a day with breaks is doable. Key is to start riding now so it's not such a shock to hop on a bike all of a sudden and ride for miles. For you, I would suggest one of the pull behind kid carry trailers. You can load everything iChat so your darter is just riding for herself. Now obviously, this is based on staying withint sidewalks and bike paths. So much unknown, so I would drive your path and look for pathways as well as study google earth. If bugging out is a plan, the best thing you can do is your homework to study your path, know it well, then come up with a plan B, do that same and go on with plan c. |
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Quoted: You could make up time by using bicycles to get you from where you live to your BOL and this doesn't cost much money. You have been here long enough to know I have posted pics of doing bike travel with kids Figure 3.5 mph average speed on paved road for the kid with a bike and probably 5 hours a day at that average. Any BO takes planning and practice. Auto, ATV, bike, or on foot all take practice. Human and animal powered BO require MORE Practice and training. If you think that you can just take an untrained 7yo on a walk and do a foot BO equal to a 45 min drive...that is a very bad plan. If you think that you can just take an untrained 7yo on a bike ride and do a bicycle BO equal to a 45 min drive...that is a very bad plan too. |
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There are a ton of variables. If you are walking on roads/paths over even ground, you can probably make 2 mph for a few hours.
Trying to E&E in the mountains, and you get down to 0.5-1km/hr if you are lucky (for fit adults). I'd highly recommend a wheeled solution, as your primary plan. (or bug IN) |
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I walk 3 miles per day unloaded at 3 miles per hour...
Loaded on good terrain I can do 2mph. (nice trails or pavement) Just straight walking in very rough wooded/ wilderness terrain (bushwhacking over and around small mountains) with a very light load 5~10lbs and a rifle I can do 15~20 miles per day... But my ass is severely kicked that night and the next morning. That pace is not sustainable and expect to feed yourself at least 3000+ calories per day. I consider myself to be in excellent walking/ hiking shape... At 28 years old I am actually in the best shape since high school sports. But I have to walk every day I can and watch everything I eat... I walked about 100 miles in the woods this past deer season and feel great... But I also walk 600~700 miles per year... On that note I would never try to ruck more then 30~40lbs and expect to make any time at all. and be able to do it more then two days in a row. With a child my vote goes for 1mph for 8 hours in one day... Get a second day out of her and you are doing good... I wouldn't expect much more then that with out a lot of practice. That gets you 16 miles and its time to start looking for a shopping cart? YMMV. 
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| Have you ever gone "cross country" before? Can you read a map or even have one? Land nav can be extremely difficult for people not trained or who don't practice for it. Tagging a child along through some of the stuff i've been through would probably be a no go. Cutting through peoples back yards or land may not be the thing to do either. Just a thought. |
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Quoted:
Get biCycles you can cover some good miles that way. Me and my wife can do 100 miles in one day with gear if we had to. we regularly ride 25 miles near daily, this is a back up to our bug out plan/catastrophe plan That's all fine until you need to stay off the road. Much more likely to get hurt riding off road than walking. |
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Consider mountain bikes.
Easier to store/maintain than motorized alternatives. Can be carried if need be. Can be used on or off road. Can reduce the strain of carrying a load, even if you're just walking the bike. Also provide diversion, entertainment and exercise in normal use. And they're a LOT faster than walking. |
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Get a trail a bike since a 7 year probably won't cover enough miles in a day to matter. The pedaling is completely independent (unlike a tandem) so the kid doesn't even have to keep pedaling and you can still make headway.
It's exercise and fun in the meantime. |
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It ain't happening. Plan to BO in a vehicle. Not saying don't plan for the ankle express, just that it's not realistic. There are ALOT of people here who seriously overestimate their chances in this scenario, and that is the last thing you want to do. Take the mileage you can do per day alone and halve it. Then halve it again. That is probably your best case with a small child in tow, because they will stop frequently and they are slow movers. For planning purposes and to give Murphy his due, halve it again...
I did this mental math awhile back and came to the conclusion that BO on foot over long distances is likely death for everyone when you have small children in tow. If you have no choice, you will still need to do it on bikes or something similar. The little ones simply don't have the stamina. You can't really carry enough food and water for everyone, either. And you can't carry her. Plan on a vehicle BO, and know when to go. |
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Quoted:
Get a trail a bike since a 7 year probably won't cover enough miles in a day to matter. The pedaling is completely independent (unlike a tandem) so the kid doesn't even have to keep pedaling and you can still make headway. It's exercise and fun in the meantime. I had one of these...I think it was called a tag along bike. My daughter loved it so much...daddy's girl. Then Razor and Schwinn scooters came along and she never learned to ride a bike. She's 19 now. |
