Posted: 6/17/2016 7:48:43 PM EDT
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I have a nice area for potential pond build. I know nothing about building a pond and its in the long term goal.
Anyone done it ? What materials ? Lined, unlined, rock bottom ? I realize I can google the crap out of it, but want to hear from ppl that actually have done it and what issues they ran into. http://www.offthegridnews.com/how-to-2/how-to-build-a-fish-pond-for-all-the-food-youll-ever-need/ |
| I dug one at my farm with my tractor and box blade but it got so steep coming out of it the front end was coming off the ground. But about a week after that a guy brought his Cat D3C over for me to work on and when I got finished with it he finished building the pond for my labor on the repairs. I did manage to get is around 9 feet deep, I put two 700lbs wheel weights on my box blade so it would cut this hard old black land clay I live on. |
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Quoted:
I dug one at my farm with my tractor and box blade but it got so steep coming out of it the front end was coming off the ground. But about a week after that a guy brought his Cat D3C over for me to work on and when I got finished with it he finished building the pond for my labor on the repairs. I did manage to get is around 9 feet deep, I put two 700lbs wheel weights on my box blade so it would cut this hard old black land clay I live on. Okay this is completely off subject and I don't mean to jack the thread--will limit this to one question. My curiosity is pinging over into the red because you work on that kind of big equipment. do you have a "lift" of some kind for that stuff? If something's wrong with one of the tracks, for instance, how do you "change the tire?" HEY!  If I make a thread, will you answer questions so we don't jack this one????? Like.."Ask a heavy equipment repair guy anything."
ON SUBJECT for the OP: The things I have of potential value may or may not apply to you. Watching a pond get built was an event around where I grew up because we didn't often see heavy equipment brought in, so everybody gathered around and it was sort of a cause for celebration when there was success. A pond was good for everybody. The three things I learned from the old timers (though of course if you're using a liner, that's a different matter) were extremely basic so may not be of any help, but I noticed the same thing when I watched one get built up the road from me last year. Seems it hasn't changed much. 1-it doesn't pay to rush the process. People get in a hurry to get it done and move on to other things, but they all said, "You've gotta let a pond sit there. It may not hold water at first but a few good rains and it may seal itself up." 2- "don't ever put your rock in until you know for certain it's gonna hold." It was expensive to have to move the rock, then work on the base, I guess, and by that point they were working in mud. Once it's mud, the problem gets way more difficult to manage. 3-"don't build the sides too steep. Give the cattle a way to walk out all the way around if you can. On two sides if you can't." I can say from experience that it's hard to go fish dead animals out of the pond. Even harder to watch them drown in front of you because you can't get the equipment or help there in time to get them out. So you probably know all that already. 
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Quoted:
Okay this is completely off subject and I don't mean to jack the thread--will limit this to one question. My curiosity is pinging over into the red because you work on that kind of big equipment. do you have a "lift" of some kind for that stuff? If something's wrong with one of the tracks, for instance, how do you "change the tire?" HEY! If I make a thread, will you answer questions so we don't jack this one????? Like.."Ask a heavy equipment repair guy anything."
ON SUBJECT for the OP: The things I have of potential value may or may not apply to you. Watching a pond get built was an event around where I grew up because we didn't often see heavy equipment brought in, so everybody gathered around and it was sort of a cause for celebration when there was success. A pond was good for everybody. The three things I learned from the old timers (though of course if you're using a liner, that's a different matter) were extremely basic so may not be of any help, but I noticed the same thing when I watched one get built up the road from me last year. Seems it hasn't changed much. 1-it doesn't pay to rush the process. People get in a hurry to get it done and move on to other things, but they all said, "You've gotta let a pond sit there. It may not hold water at first but a few good rains and it may seal itself up." 2- "don't ever put your rock in until you know for certain it's gonna hold." It was expensive to have to move the rock, then work on the base, I guess, and by that point they were working in mud. Once it's mud, the problem gets way more difficult to manage. 3-"don't build the sides too steep. Give the cattle a way to walk out all the way around if you can. On two sides if you can't." I can say from experience that it's hard to go fish dead animals out of the pond. Even harder to watch them drown in front of you because you can't get the equipment or help there in time to get them out. So you probably know all that already. In response to the off topic part, I'm not an expert by any definition, but growing up my dad had a John Deere 1010 crawler and for the past maybe 15 years he's had a Cat 935C. Neither was for business purposes, he just had them for doing things around the property, sometimes digging/grading/moving dirt, more frequently pulling downed trees out of the woods to the fields to cut firewood. I only ever remember once having a track come off on the JD 1010. I was probably only around 5 years old, but I remember that looked like a real pain. Happened back in the woods, ironically while building a pond. When he got the 935C, almost right away he replaced the tracks and sprocket pieces. We had actually just done the same thing with his 1010 only a couple years before, before he decided to sell and get something newer (the 935C). His 935C doesn't see the use that one used for a business is going to see obviously, but it's been used a fair amount for a personal toy, it's been stuck a number of times; never had a track come off. ---------------------- To the rest, agreed on all points. My parents have two ponds. Both needed some time to seal themselves up; I'm talking years though. The one in the back, for years the water level was always about a foot below the top of the stand pipe. Then one year something changed and it filled up to the top. Years later they made the stand pipe a little taller, still no leaks though. The other pond he's been tinkering for a few years now, kept having leaks. In my opinion I think maybe it's because he dug down too far and got into shale. He smeared it with clay but still has issues. That said, in the winter with the freeze and thaw, something changes and it will frequently fill to the top of the stand pipe. I believe it's holding solid now though. |
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Quoted: Check with your local NRCS office they can give you all the help and lay it out for you. If there's money in your area they will cost share. My local NRCS office helped me survey out the pond, find a good heavy equipment operator, lake and fish manager who helped me stock and maintain the lake. They know the soil in your area. Too many good old boys out there who will take your money and you end up with a muddy hole. We put in a syphon system, 10" piping system to handle overruns. I ended up with a 4 surface acre lake. I drove around the dam this morning counting the bass floating around near the surface looking for a meal. We have caught 8lb catfish out of it and other smaller types. In the winter, it's full of ducks. |
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Quoted:
This!!!!!# Your best answer so far. |
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Thanks, found it pretty quick...............
https://nrcspad.sc.egov.usda.gov/distributioncenter/product.aspx?ProductID=115 |
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We should have some old threads. I bought a place with an old farm pont, dam blowing out, and after a few years had a new pond put in. Neighbor was getting stuff done and it became a friend sort of deal since dam between my pond and his pond was driveway for my place and his place. Anyway, we used a ravine that was always draining water anyway. Had a ton of runnoff from my 4 front acres as well as hills across paved road that fed it. We also hit a spring as it got dug so I had tons of water when it rained as well as a spring to help keep it cool and help when there was no rain. The way the front yard sloped I just gave over a big chunk to the pond. We raised the driveway probably a dozen feet, was just dirt and gravel before and dude doing the work used to do track hoe work for a living and he took it all out and started it over packing it in right. I told him to dig as deep as he could, when it was all said and done the deep end was maybe 20ft or 25ft deep. I hate shallow stuff. It ran all the way up to nothing depth because of the slopes of the yard and ravine and what not, it was not for animals just my fun and enjoyment. Neighbor bought a bunch of little fishies from a fishery he worked a deal with and I got more than a few of them. We fished my farm pond for bigger older stuff and he got some of those. Frogs and turtles made it there all by themselves. Neighbor had a part he sort of made into a "beach" for swimming. I did not care so did not have anything like that done. With today's epa stuff and their changes on wanting to mess with anyplace that has constant water and what not I would do a lot of reading up on that. I had thought about getting help from the state and what not but one thing I recall was having to give permission for others to fish it or something if they helped cover cost of building it. I disliked that concept, paid dude cash and kept on cruising along. This was done in a rural area and what not and over a couple days the ponds just majically appeared as far as anyone asking questions got answered. The new driveway was in the process of getting #2s packed in when I sold the place. We did not put down any cloth or anything, we were both broke at that point. Had a couple tubes beside each other for a drain tube and had a low spot in driveway in case tube got blocked or that much water needed out. Filled up and worked well for a couple years and then I sold the place cause there was a price that could buy it. |
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As well as pond boss, do a search on the forums at tractorbynet.com. There are numerous really detailed threads about building ponds, but inevitably people refer to pond boss.
Here is my limited knowledge on the subject. In the dam, you will have a section in the middle made of clay that functions to keep the water from seeping through. As you build the damp compaction is your friend. You will need an overflow mechanism, which can be as simple as a low area of the damn with a spillway that leads the water away from the damn - if the water cuts back toward the damn, it will weaken the damn (this is how the pond I had was, it worked great). Another option for overflow is a culvert or pipe running horizontally through the dam, it needs to exit far enough from the dam so that it doesn't cause erosion. On the water side, the culvert/pipe is connected with a water tight seal to a vertical culvert/pipe. The top of the vertical part will be the depth of your pond, as water rises to that level, it will enter the pipe and be directed to the opposite side of the dam. The dry side of the dam will be longer and a more gradual slope than the wet side. I don't recall. Exactly the ratio, but want to say it's something like the wet side is 2/3rds longer than the dry if you were to measure it at the base. To retain the water a liner is quick, easy and expensive, last I checked it was $1/sq ft, long time ago. Another option is sodium bentonite aka bentonite clay. It looks like fertilizer pellets, I've seen people use a broadcast spreader and a fertilizer spreader that you push and more industrial spreaders. You then rake in the bentonite. When it gets wet, it expands to7-10 times its original size, iirc, and seals the pond. You can buy it in 20-50lbs bags or 1000lbs bags. Around here, there are areas that have high concentrations of bentonite. You can't drill a well cost effectively because as soon as the water hits the bentonite, it seals up the well or causes all kinds of extraction havoc. Pond boss will have all the correct calculations and ratios. |
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After that post I will say the part of ohio I was in was clay. Held water just fine. Not sure on dam ratio cause my pond ended and my neighbors started on other side of dam. His was shallow end on that side and his was equally deep at the other end as my deep end. Or maybe a bit more. He always wanted to outdo everyone else. |
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Your best answer so far. That. The two places I have owned are conducive to ponds ... Lots and lots of clay with no sand layers. My former neighbor dug two with a backhoe. The small one was the size of a large swimming pool and served as a place for roof rainwater and surface water to collect. The other was four times the size of the small one, about 15 feet deep, with a nice slope to one end and sand in the shallow area for kids to swim. He pumped them down every few years to rake out the leaves and keep the bluegill under control. Current neighbor had a pond dug three years ago, out of necessity as their yard needed fill. 1/4 acre, back yard, 15 feet deep, reasonable slope in all around. I'm in the same boat as they were with a flat yard that is sopping wet six months out of the year, and will likely dig a pond and use the fill. Only problem for me is that I have a septic lagoon at the lowest spot in the yard (ten acres with a very shallow slope to an area that is about two feet lower than everywhere else), and there is a linear wetland 50 feet away. Don't want to get rid of the grandfathered lagoon (doesn't stink, extremely low maintenance, vs $$$ for engineered drainfield with maintenance problems). Not sure what I'm going to do yet. Read the USACE regs plus whatever regs your state has. If you are within 500 feet of a wetland in Michigan you need a permit. Wetland has an extremely broad definition, however it is easy to obtain approval provided you write down the correct things on the application. |
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Is it too late to introduce minnow or other feeder fish into an established pond? The ponds are approximately 4 acres and 1.25 acres in size with largemouth bass, crappie, bluegill and catfish in them...would a person even need to introduce minnow, etc.?
Thanks for the heads up on pond boss as I'll be checking that out later. 
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I built lakes and tanks in Texas for a living for 8 years. It is generally not something a novice should attempt with teeny equipment because you can end up with nothing but a mudhole that is a complete eyesore. A good part of our business was fixing mistakes made by the local bulldozer "pro". Fixing a mistake is always more expensive than doing it right the first time. I cannot tell you how many tons of bentonite we have removed from leaking lakes that was sold as being the cure all for a bad lake. Snake oil folks. Nada mas.
Some of the more common mistakes were: Dam with an improperly constructed core leaks or gives way. Banks or the rear face of the dam too steep. You need to be able to traverse everything with a tractor mower or atv. Too shallow -- weeds will grow in anything less than 4'. And of course the leaking lake fiasco. Pond Boss is a good resource. I am familiar with some of the major vendors on there and I have witnessed their work first-hand. I can only say do your homework and let the buyer beware before you employ them.
THIS GUY builds the cadillac lakes and tanks in Texas or Oklahoma and also offers a valuable consulting service that is worth every penny. He generally flies his Cessna to consults and ranges over all the Texas Border States. He is NOT cheap and he stays very busy. Last time I checked he was booked a year in advance on construction and was backed up a month for consults. |
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I can speak from very limited experience because I've only done it once but I did learn a lot from it. I too would suggest Pondboss but when I built mine almost 20 years ago, I was not aware of them. And possibly they weren't even online then.
I purchased a 5 acre piece of property that had some drainage issues and so the price was reasonable. It had only an old barn on it at the time. A large part of it stayed kinda swampy 75% of the year though and that had to be dealt with first before I could build my house and a new barn. My Dad was a huge help in this regard because he had some heavy equipment but neither of us had built a pond before. The idea was to wait till mid summer when the swampy area was at its driest and dig the area out and move that soil to build up the areas where the house and barn would be.and also to build a long wall down one side for a driveway to the new barn. I had the county engineer come and look at what we wanted to do and he said the idea was good but that we had to make sure that the long wall side (driveway) did not block the natural drainage of my neighbors property. Fair enough and it turns out he was exactly right. So we used an older Cat D6 dozer and a medium sized Caterpillar pan for the hauling. The dozer did most of the initial digging but it also spent a lot of time pushing and pulling the loaded pan out of the hole. We put in an 18" culvert on the neighbors side to catch his runoff and used a sheepsfoot roller on the long wall to pack that side down real well. And we put in a basic spillway on the opposite side for when it would get full if that ever happened. Our initial plan was looking at 12-14' deep but when we got to 10-12 we started to notice that the pond was taking on water from below and things got soupy fast. We had no idea that the water table in that area was that high. It became almost impossible to keep going further but we already had plenty of fill for our original plans and so we stopped there. The pond filled itself about halfway within a week and we were amazed. We didn't line it, we didn't use benonite or do anything because we simply had no time. We had to get the equipment out. but it all worked out fine and our drainages worked out perfect. The neighbor likes it because he no longer has drainage issues and neither do we. The spillway goes into my hayfield which is just fine by me. It can take on enormous amounts of water but I've only seen it spill 3 times in 20 years and when it does it is just feeding hay. It is about 3/4 acre or so and I stocked it with 50 young largemouth bass and 100 young bluegill that first year and both populations thrived and have done very well. I also put 3 small white Amurs in that year and all of them got enormously large but the last one died a couple years ago and so I put 2 new young ones in and 25 young channel cats in this year. Too soon to call how the catfish are doing yet. The pond became not only a solution to a problem but a huge source of fun and recreation and is an ecosystem in and of itself that completely fascinates me and everyone else that visits it. 
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I have built a couple irrigation ponds, one is over 350 acre/feet.
As my ponds are bigger than I think you have in mind I don't know if my advise is useful but: I use a 20 yard scraper behind a 435 hp tractor. Nice thing about a big scraper is they compact as they work. You can't sink a shovel 3/4" when that scraper is done. #1 most important advice, step in your dam. You have to cut away about 3-4 ft' of material where you will place the dam and replace it otherwise it will leak. #1a If you have heavy clay make a center core of clay. Clay in the middle all the way to the top then lighter soils to build up the rest. #1b If you have lots of clay or heavy soil avalable scrape the whole pond about 1' below your intended floor and replace with it. #2 compact in lifts, place about 12-16" of material then run a compactor over it. Unless you have a big scraper like me. #3 plumb for the outlet early. Seems like a no brainer but sometimes people get 10' of dam built and then remember they need an outlet. #4 your outlet cant just be a pipe running through the dam else it will leak. Place the pipe, then, depending on size, dig a nice hole around and below your pipe near the end on the water side big enough to really anchor your drain: on a 16" outlet I dig a nice square hole about 24" on either side and below the pipe and I fill it with bag mix. Put the bag mix in dry and pile it up well above the top of the pipe. Then backfill carefully so as to not disturb the bag mix. Don't bother making cement (mixing it with water) nature will provide the water. #5 Don't go over 10'. If the government catches wind of it they can cause problems. Something to do with supposing to have the Army copse of engineers design it or some shit. #6 I use large PVC for the spillway rather than concrete. It is cheaper and can be buried so you can drive across the top and it looks nice (you can't see it). I run the pvc across (no need to anchor it as there is no pressure at the top) then put a 45 on it and run it down the backside (if you just poke it out the back it will erode the backside of your dam). As my dams are for irrigation I plumb the spillway back into the outlet on the backside with a pressure relieve valve at the bottom of the system so the spillway will continue to run if the pipe is full. My ponds aren't lined but my soil is pretty heavy. I broadcast pasture mix on the dam when done; helps with the erosion and looks nice. Some guys with light soil and high wind will put a couple loads of very coarse aggregate on the water side of the dam to prevent erosion from lapping waves, I don't have this problem. If your dam leaks once built let me know and I will tell you how to fix it. Although it is a lot cheaper to make sure it doesn't leak while you are building it. |