Posted: 2/3/2010 7:31:07 PM EDT
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OK, I've got a Generac 8k-12k sitting on my back deck.
It's connected to my breaker box by way of a 30 amp Square D QO breaker (when I need it to be) by way of a short cord plugged in to a weatherproof box mounted on my outside wall. Power goes off, cut the main breaker and ALL the small breakers, start the generator, and power up the main box via the 30 Amp breaker installed in the bottom of the main box. Then I cut on or off all the breakers in the box as I need them. The generator I have will not run the heat pump, the range top, or the oven....I know that. But, It will run all the small stuff in my house as I need it.......even the water heater and the clothes dryer, if they are the only thing going at thatt time, and on THAT BREAKER only at that time. The installation was done last week by a licensed electrician. If any of y'all have a similar set up, please let me know if there is anything I need to know that y'all have learned from experience . All comments are welcome!! Thanks!!!!!!!! |
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Don't forget to turn off all the breakers except for the circuit you want to run. You don't want the freezer to kick in while you're drying your clothes. Thanks for the comment Tommy! That's the general idea.........just run what I need (on one breaker at a time) AS NEEDED!! I'm hoping for some tips and info from folks who have a similar set up. Thank you! |
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I have a 10K MEP-003a Diesel hooked up to my house pretty much the same way.
I don't cut off any breakers other than the mains. We just don't run the oven, A/C or the dryer at the same time but it will run them separately.. I start the gen, let it warm up and while waiting I cut the mains and cut on the generator breakers at the house. Once the gen is warmed up I cut on it's breaker and we are in business. Andy... |
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I am very surprised that a licensed electrician is using a backfeeding breaker without an interlock to lock out the line power. FYI this is not up to code anywhere that I know of. Further FYI, a lot of us do this as you describe. Powering one appliance at a time is excellent. I am surprised to find that an 8kW will not run your heat pump with the exception of the strip heat.
Outside of the lack of interlock, excellent system and good post. Ops |
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+1 on the backfeed switch..how would you like to be a lineman in a downed lines area reconnecting what are supposed to be dead wires because some fool has no interlock and sending power back in the system.If any harm is caused like death is a felony.
Is pretty cheap box and breakers to have that double toggle shutting off the power to the main lines when you fire up to feed the house |
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I am very surprised that a licensed electrician is using a backfeeding breaker without an interlock to lock out the line power. FYI this is not up to code anywhere that I know of. Further FYI, a lot of us do this as you describe. Powering one appliance at a time is excellent. I am surprised to find that an 8kW will not run your heat pump with the exception of the strip heat. Outside of the lack of interlock, excellent system and good post. Ops Well, I guess it's all according to the code in your area. I am very well aware of backfeeding. I have several very close friends who work for the local power company, and we have had several conversations about the backfeeding issue. The 8kw just might run my heat pump minus my heat strips, but I have no idea about how to disconnect them. I'll be getting (backup) propane heat set up real soon, so the heat pump will be a moot point. |
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the range top, or the oven
These are 220 volt appliances, usually. I don't know about the heat pump. Your generator has one 30-amp breaker so it is supplying only 115 volts into your house. even the water heater and the clothes dryer
Sounds like these are 115 v appliances??? Very unusual. |
When I backfed my genny to run the house I made a double male cord, I know  . But to eliminate the possibility of a" mistake" happening I was the only one who ran the genny and I hid the cord so no one else could backfeed it if I wasn't home. I also labled the plug where it plugged in "welder outlet" so no one would think it was a backfeed outlet.
One idea to avoid a bad scenario taking place when you are not home is to tie the key that starts the genny to the mains with a red tag that says "turn off mains before removing key". I'm sure you are plenty careful but you can never underestimate the ability of some one else trying to help during an emergency causing a disaster. Especially if you are not home at the time. With an 8k I'm sure you can run several of the burners on the range with no problem. The entire range/oven is probably on a 50 amp breaker and that's enough to run it with every burner and oven turned to high. |
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I am very surprised that a licensed electrician is using a backfeeding breaker without an interlock to lock out the line power. FYI this is not up to code anywhere that I know of. Further FYI, a lot of us do this as you describe. Powering one appliance at a time is excellent. I am surprised to find that an 8kW will not run your heat pump with the exception of the strip heat. Outside of the lack of interlock, excellent system and good post. Ops Well, I guess it's all according to the code in your area. I am very well aware of backfeeding. I have several very close friends who work for the local power company, and we have had several conversations about the backfeeding issue. The 8kw just might run my heat pump minus my heat strips, but I have no idea about how to disconnect them. I'll be getting (backup) propane heat set up real soon, so the heat pump will be a moot point. Its called the National Electrical Code for a reason. Local jurisdictions can be more strict, but never less. Make sure you keep your bill for that install to properly cover your butt! |
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I have 6250/8750 B&S and I do basically the same as you with a few minor modifications...
With the inlet breaker in the off position, I start the generator and allow it to run for a minute or 2 while I am checking everything. When I am setting up the breaker box to run under genny, I only turn off all the double pole (220V) breakers (water heaters, stove, A/C units, pool pump) - I don't think there are enough 110 loads in my house to overload my gen. unless they are all running at the same time. Once I flick the inlet breaker to on, I walk around the house turning off any unnecessary loads. The reason I do it this way is that I want to be able to go anywhere in the house and turn on a light (or any other minor electric device) and have it work without going to the breaker box to figure out which circuit I need to energize every time I want to use something. In terms of your stovetop, each burner on the stovetop draws about 1000 to 1500 watts. You should be able to run 1 or 2 burners if you are not running any other large loads although I understand not wanting to run the stovetop routinely. Big-ish microwaves, toaster ovens, & hand held hair dryers draw similar amounts of power and you probably wouldn't think twice about running any of these... Sounds like you have a nice little setup - Enjoy! 
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I am not going to add my name to the list of those telling you that you might kill someone. You already know the seriousness of this. I have the exact same setup as you. I know it is not code. I am a contractor! I may upgrade to the proper arrangement some day, but for now, I am powering the house on the cheap. I am the only one who touches it, so nobody else will make a mistake.
I only have a 5000 watt genny. If the power goes out, the genny powers the well pump, the electronics on the propane water heater, the electric fans on the fireplace insert if it is cold, box fans if it is hot, television, lights, and the fridge in the kitchen. We also have two other fridges and three deep freezers that we power alternately. For cooking, we can cook over the fire if we have one, or we turn off other stuff and run the microwave or the eye on the stove. I know it sounds like alot, but I keep a check on volts, and alternate things, or turn off things when needed. We get by. Now that I have a second, it will take pressure off the first one, but the above is how we have managed to get thru several power outages. Things that I learned along the way....Pay attention to volts unless you want to burn up a compressor. If your freezers are not stuffed to the gills, try to consolidate items to be able to stop powering one freezer or fridge. Think of it as a good excuse to defrost! Also, a full freezer keeps longer than a half-full one too. You can power a freezer for 4-6 hours, and it will keep for the rest of the day if you don't open it. Wrap it in a blanket if you have one handy. In the winter, let mother nature be your friend. If its cold out, some things store fine without refridgeration. Just keep animals out of it. If you are using extension cords, buy good ones. I am sure that most reading this already know this stuff, and probably alot more! I just added it for the ones that don't. |
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Its called the National Electrical Code for a reason. Local jurisdictions can be more strict, but never less. Make sure you keep your bill for that install to properly cover your butt! Local goverments can do what ever they want. The NEC has no force of law until adopted by state, local, or tribal authorities. It's written by a private company (NFPA). And it is not unheard of for commerical installations to have the ability to backfeed if the right breakers are set in the right positions. Switchgear like this is designed for use by trained personel in an emergency to bypass certain failed components like transfer switches. Yeah it can be dangerious. It was rumered that backfeeding caused the death of a Pike lineman in South Alabama after a hurricane (Maralyn?). If so, this is the first death I ama aware of. Fore there to be a letal situation, a number of things have to happen. |
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+1 on the backfeed switch..how would you like to be a lineman in a downed lines area reconnecting what are supposed to be dead wires because some fool has no interlock and sending power back in the system.If any harm is caused like death is a felony. Is pretty cheap box and breakers to have that double toggle shutting off the power to the main lines when you fire up to feed the house He hired an electrician to hook up a generator and if somebody gets hurt he is charged with a felony? |
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the range top, or the oven
These are 220 volt appliances, usually. I don't know about the heat pump. Your generator has one 30-amp breaker so it is supplying only 115 volts into your house. even the water heater and the clothes dryer
Sounds like these are 115 v appliances??? Very unusual. I would imagine his generator is plugged into a double pole 30 amp breaker and is supply 120v to both sides of the load center. I must assume what you are saying is wrong. Grove |
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You can lockout the strip heat on your heat pump by disconnecting the W2 terminal from the (white) wire on the T-stat connection strip. AN 8kw gennie should handle a 40 amp load easily. Ops Be careful, even tho the W2 terminal from the thermostat is disconnected in the air handler, the control board in the OD unit may have a path to pick the heat strip contactor during the periodic defrost cycles. I've previously suggested pullling the 24vac wire from the heat strip contactor/sequrencer and you will probably need a wiring diagram to find it. |
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Its called the National Electrical Code for a reason. Local jurisdictions can be more strict, but never less. Make sure you keep your bill for that install to properly cover your butt! Local goverments can do what ever they want. The NEC has no force of law until adopted by state, local, or tribal authorities. It's written by a private company (NFPA). And it is not unheard of for commerical installations to have the ability to backfeed if the right breakers are set in the right positions. Switchgear like this is designed for use by trained personel in an emergency to bypass certain failed components like transfer switches. Yeah it can be dangerious. It was rumered that backfeeding caused the death of a Pike lineman in South Alabama after a hurricane (Maralyn?). If so, this is the first death I ama aware of. Fore there to be a letal situation, a number of things have to happen. You are sort of right. However it looks like the OP lives in Ky and they have adopted the 2008 NEC statewide. Where you are its adopted more locally so there may be areas that are not really code enforced. However, IMO, a licensed electrician would be stupid to not adhear to the code. What really drives the code and its changes are the insurance companies (yeah, and the makers of electrical equipment). If you are a licensed electrician and are insured you may find that you are dropped like a hot potatoe in a laawsuit where the insurance company can prove that the install you did was not up to code. If you hire a licensed electrician you should be expecting the work to be done in a proper manner and that it is insurable. Also, I have never seen any commercial or industrial situations where backfeeding for emergency power was considered OK, but my experience is pretty much limited to New England so I cant say I have seen it all. |
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the range top, or the oven
These are 220 volt appliances, usually. I don't know about the heat pump. Your generator has one 30-amp breaker so it is supplying only 115 volts into your house. even the water heater and the clothes dryer
Sounds like these are 115 v appliances??? Very unusual. No, they are 220 appliances. The power cord is connected to the 220 twist-lock plug on the generator. The 220v then comes into the power box through a 30A breaker, added in the box, that is used as an on/off switch from the generator. The generator also has a 30A breaker on the 220V plug. |
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Frank you are making a lot of assumptions. the op did not say it was a single pole breaker. +1 should have an interlock....they are $35 for square D So, is there an interlock that I can add on for $35 that will prevent any possibility of backfeed? This site has ones but they are $150. http://www.interlockkit.com/squareDmain01.htm |
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AJE, I've got the same generator. It seems to be a good one!
OK, I've looked at the "interlocks", talked to the electricians, the power company folks, and everybody else I can think of to make sure I have a sysyem set up that will bring generator power into my house as easily as possible, and pose absolutely ZERO threat to the good folks that work their a$$es off to get my power back on. Until I posted this topic, I had never been told that there was a possible "code" violation. I have been warned several times about backfeeding, and I have taken the necessary precautions to guard against that possibility. So after looking at the "interlock" devices, it became clear to me that they were a simple manual block that was available for a total doofus that did not know any better than to have the breaker from the generator power and the main breaker from the outside power on at the same time. I realize that there are several different ways for me to spend a whole lot more money to get the same results, but is there any reason to believe that the system I now have is anything but TOTALLY safe for all concerned IF all of the procedures are followed correctly every time I have a power outage and need to resort to generator power? |
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I have 6250/8750 B&S and I do basically the same as you with a few minor modifications... With the inlet breaker in the off position, I start the generator and allow it to run for a minute or 2 while I am checking everything. When I am setting up the breaker box to run under genny, I only turn off all the double pole (220V) breakers (water heaters, stove, A/C units, pool pump) - I don't think there are enough 110 loads in my house to overload my gen. unless they are all running at the same time. Once I flick the inlet breaker to on, I walk around the house turning off any unnecessary loads. The reason I do it this way is that I want to be able to go anywhere in the house and turn on a light (or any other minor electric device) and have it work without going to the breaker box to figure out which circuit I need to energize every time I want to use something. In terms of your stovetop, each burner on the stovetop draws about 1000 to 1500 watts. You should be able to run 1 or 2 burners if you are not running any other large loads although I understand not wanting to run the stovetop routinely. Big-ish microwaves, toaster ovens, & hand held hair dryers draw similar amounts of power and you probably wouldn't think twice about running any of these... Sounds like you have a nice little setup - Enjoy! I do about the same thing Reorx does... Also I've taken a red Sharpie and marked all 220V breakers ( the panel ) with a large RED DOT that are " normally " off, in generator mode ( including the mains ). Since the labeling on the breaker box is hard to read, I've duplicated the diagram list ( with the red dots ) on a card for legibility ( in the dark with minimal lighting if need be ) and keep it inside the door. With the diagram list, I use a checklist for switching to generator and back to commercial power... step by step checklist. ( mains off, gen breaker off, 220's off, etc. ). The breaker box area may be a good place to stash a flashlight. 
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GMTA!!! I have done very similarly - I have mapped my breaker box, have an instruction sheet or 2, etc. My short instruction sheet looks like this >>>
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I have 6250/8750 B&S and I do basically the same as you with a few minor modifications... With the inlet breaker in the off position, I start the generator and allow it to run for a minute or 2 while I am checking everything. When I am setting up the breaker box to run under genny, I only turn off all the double pole (220V) breakers (water heaters, stove, A/C units, pool pump) - I don't think there are enough 110 loads in my house to overload my gen. unless they are all running at the same time. Once I flick the inlet breaker to on, I walk around the house turning off any unnecessary loads. The reason I do it this way is that I want to be able to go anywhere in the house and turn on a light (or any other minor electric device) and have it work without going to the breaker box to figure out which circuit I need to energize every time I want to use something. In terms of your stovetop, each burner on the stovetop draws about 1000 to 1500 watts. You should be able to run 1 or 2 burners if you are not running any other large loads although I understand not wanting to run the stovetop routinely. Big-ish microwaves, toaster ovens, & hand held hair dryers draw similar amounts of power and you probably wouldn't think twice about running any of these... Sounds like you have a nice little setup - Enjoy! I do about the same thing Reorx does... Also I've taken a red Sharpie and marked all 220V breakers ( the panel ) with a large RED DOT that are " normally " off, in generator mode ( including the mains ). Since the labeling on the breaker box is hard to read, I've duplicated the diagram list ( with the red dots ) on a card for legibility ( in the dark with minimal lighting if need be ) and keep it inside the door. With the diagram list, I use a checklist for switching to generator and back to commercial power... step by step checklist. ( mains off, gen breaker off, 220's off, etc. ). The breaker box area may be a good place to stash a flashlight. http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l210/fundummy/checklistpanel.jpg <<< Using a Generator to Power a House during an Outage >>> Preparation >> ·Generator: 1.Check the OIL 2.Start the generator. 3.Get the wiring out and ready (do NOT connect – yet). 4.Get the generator in position. ·Disconnects/breakers: 1.BEFORE connecting the generator to any wiring, MAKE SURE the MAIN DISCONNECT (breaker) AND the INLET BREAKER are BOTH in the OFF position. 2.Recheck that you have done #1 above correctly. 3.Turn off ALL 240 breakers. Also make sure that all “large load” appliances are turned off. Typically, “large load” appliances involve heating – hair dryers, toasters, microwave ovens, coffee pots, etc. Applying Power >> ·Connect the inlet wiring with the generator off and the inlet breaker OFF. ·Start the generator and let it warm up a few minutes without a load applied. ·CHECK/MAKE SURE that the MAIN BEAKER is in the OFF. ·Move the inlet breaker to the ON position and enjoy the electricity. Running under generator power >> ·To stretch fuel, you can run the generator intermittently instead of continuously. This also allows the generator to “rest” and time for routine maintenance (oil changes, refueling, etc.). Oil changes should be done every 25 hours of run time (for non-filtered systems). Turning off the generator overnight (8 hours or so) has no adverse effect on the contents of the refrigerator as it is not opened overnight. A good working schedule for 50% on / 50% off is >>> off midnight to 8am and 2pm to 6pm. Shutting down a generator >> ·DO NOT shut down with a load applied. ·Move the inlet breaker to the off position and unplug any other loads that may be connected directly to the generator’s 120V outlets. ·Allow the generator to run for about a minute or so with no load before shutting down the generator. ·Do your best to not allow a generator with a load applied to run out of gasoline. NOTES: ·NEVER start or stop the engine of a generator while a load is connected. ·Keep a maintenance log – dates, run hours, maintenance done, notes, etc.. ·If your generator has a battery for electric start, make sure the trickle charger is connected when the generator is stored. ·Before putting the generator away, run the tank dry using stabilized gasoline. ·Run the generator with 1 gallon of stabilized gasoline at least every 6 months - run gas tank dry. Meter the output with and without a load during each run. ·Change the oil at least once a year. ·Supplies to have on hand: a few quarts of engine oil (whatever you like), a (correct) sparkplug or 2 & a socket to fit it, an air filter or 2, a long neck funnel, fuel stabilizer, and some fuel. |