Posted: 9/2/2012 1:01:54 PM EDT
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I'm going to be requesting install quotes in the near future to have a transfer switch installed and I'm looking from feedback from anyone with experience about the scope of work I need.
Here's my situation. On one side of my house is my power meter and this panel right next it. 
On the other side of my home is my garage where this panel is. 
I want to have the generator on the back wall of my garage (outside) with the transfer switch coming in to the box in the garage. Knowing next to nothing about home electrical wiring, is this an easy install? Or will the electrician try and sell me on a transfer switch on the far side of my home by my neighbor where I'm going to need about 120' of cable to get from the generator to the panel? |
| Had my transfer switch installed directly under my circuit box. It was less than an hour of work IIRC. It does not put my generator in an ideal location security wise (have to chain my genny to the fence). Worst case scenerio is if someone cuts the fence post away from the generator it is secured to. Price was not bad either. Well worth the convenience of having the whole house "hot". Nothing beats flipping a switch when you need to go to the bathroom for business, brushing your teeth, etc.. |
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Quoted:
If you just want to power the panel in the garage you are in like Flynn. You want a manual transfer switch in the garage fed from the main and the generator. If you want it back to the main panel its not so easy. Yes, all I want to do is power the circuits in the garage panel. I don't need the AC units, or any other of those circuits in the exterior panel. I just noticed that the top left circuit says cooktop and we have a gas cooktop so I'm not even sure what that is for. All the important circuits are in the garage. Primarilly the fridge. Our fridge is built in with no easy way to power it from a generator without going through the panel. |
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The physical install of a transfer switch it pretty easy. Here's how it's done. I assume your panel is an exterior panel and surface mounted which makes it easier. If it's flush mounted (set back into the wall space) you'll have some cutting and repair work to do. This is because you need a way to get the wires from the switch into the panel. You can place the power inlet box wherever you'd like, you don't have to use the inlet on the transfer switch. You'll just need wire of the proper size for the amps and distance, likely 10ga wire at a minimum.
The real thought process comes in when you're trying to balance the load on the generator. I'm assuming you'll be using a 220v generator to power all those circuits. You'll want to keep the power demand from both legs of the generator within ~500 watts. You need to think about how the circuits will be used when on generator power. You don't want a high demand of power to be on one leg while little is on the other leg. Shorts bursts like running the microwave or coffee pot won't matter, you just don't want to be running at 3000 watts on the leg 1 and 500 watts on leg 2 for hours on end. You'd want to balance things so that 1750 watts would be running on each leg for hours. The best way to figure stuff out is by writing your circuits down on a piece of paper and determining the total watts on those circuits. Then you'll need to rank the circuits by what's most likely to be used for a sustained period. After that you can get a new piece of paper and write down stuff in a balanced layout for the switch. It may be that switch leg A powers panel circuits 1, 3, 4, 6 ,10 and switch leg B powers panel circuits 2, 5, 7, 8, 9. |
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My subpanel is flush mounted so there will be some cutting and drywall repair but that's one of the few things I can do myself
This is the transfer switch I'm looking at |
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http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/644329__ARCHIVED_THREAD____DIY_Generator_Power_Cables_and_Install.html&page=1 ps for good pricing on Reliance load-side transfer switches, see http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/644329__ARCHIVED_THREAD____DIY_Generator_Power_Cables_and_Install.html&page=2#i10993465 ar-jedi |
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I currently have a manual system that powers my entire panel. It's fine when I'm here, but the wife does not understand enough about the process to proceed without me. As a result, I'm installing a transer switch. I plan on getting a smart switch from ATC. The ten circuit model is $500, but has some very neat features, including the ability to automatically turn circuitsa on and off based on load requirements. Another cool feature is you can use a UPS to power a secondary power source for uninteruptible power to a circuit. This could go to a computer or TV circuit to prevent you from losing power during momentary outages.
All that has to be done during an outage is crank the generator and connect the cord. The smart switch will do everything else. It's virtually wife-proof. One downside is that it is electronic, so it may not last forever. http://www.amazon.com/APC-Universal-Transfer-Switch-10-Circuit/dp/B000XQGNFC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1346680202&sr=8-2&keywords=apc+uts |
| Instead of a transfer switch, we got a panel interlock which cost half as much as the transfer switch installed. We simply have to engage the interlock, turn off the central A/C breaker, turn on the generator breaker and then crank the generator up to power pretty much our entire house. |
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Instead of a transfer switch, we got a panel interlock which cost half as much as the transfer switch installed. We simply have to engage the interlock, turn off the central A/C breaker, turn on the generator breaker and then crank the generator up to power pretty much our entire house. Is this installed at the main panel or at a sub panel? |
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Quoted:
The physical install of a transfer switch it pretty easy. Here's how it's done. I assume your panel is an exterior panel and surface mounted which makes it easier. If it's flush mounted (set back into the wall space) you'll have some cutting and repair work to do. This is because you need a way to get the wires from the switch into the panel. You can place the power inlet box wherever you'd like, you don't have to use the inlet on the transfer switch. You'll just need wire of the proper size for the amps and distance, likely 10ga wire at a minimum. The real thought process comes in when you're trying to balance the load on the generator. I'm assuming you'll be using a 220v generator to power all those circuits. You'll want to keep the power demand from both legs of the generator within ~500 watts. You need to think about how the circuits will be used when on generator power. You don't want a high demand of power to be on one leg while little is on the other leg. Shorts bursts like running the microwave or coffee pot won't matter, you just don't want to be running at 3000 watts on the leg 1 and 500 watts on leg 2 for hours on end. You'd want to balance things so that 1750 watts would be running on each leg for hours. The best way to figure stuff out is by writing your circuits down on a piece of paper and determining the total watts on those circuits. Then you'll need to rank the circuits by what's most likely to be used for a sustained period. After that you can get a new piece of paper and write down stuff in a balanced layout for the switch. It may be that switch leg A powers panel circuits 1, 3, 4, 6 ,10 and switch leg B powers panel circuits 2, 5, 7, 8, 9. What does that hurt? And to the OP, whoever added your bath circuits and bath heater violated the NEC (electric code) |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Instead of a transfer switch, we got a panel interlock which cost half as much as the transfer switch installed. We simply have to engage the interlock, turn off the central A/C breaker, turn on the generator breaker and then crank the generator up to power pretty much our entire house. Is this installed at the main panel or at a sub panel? Our electrician put the interlock unit into our main panel. |
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Quoted:
Instead of a transfer switch, we got a panel interlock which cost half as much as the transfer switch installed. We simply have to engage the interlock, turn off the central A/C breaker, turn on the generator breaker and then crank the generator up to power pretty much our entire house. i think this is what i'm looking for. do you have a total cost for the install? |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Instead of a transfer switch, we got a panel interlock which cost half as much as the transfer switch installed. We simply have to engage the interlock, turn off the central A/C breaker, turn on the generator breaker and then crank the generator up to power pretty much our entire house. i think this is what i'm looking for. do you have a total cost for the install? I got the interlock installed with a 30 amp breaker in my main panel, with a 20' cord and a 30 amp male connector for $450! 
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Instead of a transfer switch, we got a panel interlock which cost half as much as the transfer switch installed. We simply have to engage the interlock, turn off the central A/C breaker, turn on the generator breaker and then crank the generator up to power pretty much our entire house. i think this is what i'm looking for. do you have a total cost for the install? I got the interlock installed with a 30 amp breaker in my main panel, with a 20' cord and a 30 amp male connector for $450! thanks |
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Quoted: From what I understand, running 220 you are using both phases so you want to try to equal them out so as not to put undo stress on the generator. Otherwise it would be like you walking down the street, your left leg at half step and your right leg trying to run a 4 minute mile...to try to keep it as simple as possible balance the loads as best you can Quoted: ...... The real thought process comes in when you're trying to balance the load on the generator. I'm assuming you'll be using a 220v generator to power all those circuits. You'll want to keep the power demand from both legs of the generator within ~500 watts. You need to think about how the circuits will be used when on generator power. You don't want a high demand of power to be on one leg while little is on the other leg. Shorts bursts like running the microwave or coffee pot won't matter, you just don't want to be running at 3000 watts on the leg 1 and 500 watts on leg 2 for hours on end. You'd want to balance things so that 1750 watts would be running on each leg for hours. The best way to figure stuff out is by writing your circuits down on a piece of paper and determining the total watts on those circuits. Then you'll need to rank the circuits by what's most likely to be used for a sustained period. After that you can get a new piece of paper and write down stuff in a balanced layout for the switch. It may be that switch leg A powers panel circuits 1, 3, 4, 6 ,10 and switch leg B powers panel circuits 2, 5, 7, 8, 9. What does that hurt? 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The physical install of a transfer switch it pretty easy. Here's how it's done. I assume your panel is an exterior panel and surface mounted which makes it easier. If it's flush mounted (set back into the wall space) you'll have some cutting and repair work to do. This is because you need a way to get the wires from the switch into the panel. You can place the power inlet box wherever you'd like, you don't have to use the inlet on the transfer switch. You'll just need wire of the proper size for the amps and distance, likely 10ga wire at a minimum. The real thought process comes in when you're trying to balance the load on the generator. I'm assuming you'll be using a 220v generator to power all those circuits. You'll want to keep the power demand from both legs of the generator within ~500 watts. You need to think about how the circuits will be used when on generator power. You don't want a high demand of power to be on one leg while little is on the other leg. Shorts bursts like running the microwave or coffee pot won't matter, you just don't want to be running at 3000 watts on the leg 1 and 500 watts on leg 2 for hours on end. You'd want to balance things so that 1750 watts would be running on each leg for hours. The best way to figure stuff out is by writing your circuits down on a piece of paper and determining the total watts on those circuits. Then you'll need to rank the circuits by what's most likely to be used for a sustained period. After that you can get a new piece of paper and write down stuff in a balanced layout for the switch. It may be that switch leg A powers panel circuits 1, 3, 4, 6 ,10 and switch leg B powers panel circuits 2, 5, 7, 8, 9. What does that hurt? And to the OP, whoever added your bath circuits and bath heater violated the NEC (electric code) Funny, we bought our home from the builder of our subdivision  . I wonder what else isn't up to code.
I mean,he lived in this home for 11 years before he passed away and we bought the place |
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The physical install of a transfer switch it pretty easy. Here's how it's done. I assume your panel is an exterior panel and surface mounted which makes it easier. If it's flush mounted (set back into the wall space) you'll have some cutting and repair work to do. This is because you need a way to get the wires from the switch into the panel. You can place the power inlet box wherever you'd like, you don't have to use the inlet on the transfer switch. You'll just need wire of the proper size for the amps and distance, likely 10ga wire at a minimum. The real thought process comes in when you're trying to balance the load on the generator. I'm assuming you'll be using a 220v generator to power all those circuits. You'll want to keep the power demand from both legs of the generator within ~500 watts. You need to think about how the circuits will be used when on generator power. You don't want a high demand of power to be on one leg while little is on the other leg. Shorts bursts like running the microwave or coffee pot won't matter, you just don't want to be running at 3000 watts on the leg 1 and 500 watts on leg 2 for hours on end. You'd want to balance things so that 1750 watts would be running on each leg for hours. The best way to figure stuff out is by writing your circuits down on a piece of paper and determining the total watts on those circuits. Then you'll need to rank the circuits by what's most likely to be used for a sustained period. After that you can get a new piece of paper and write down stuff in a balanced layout for the switch. It may be that switch leg A powers panel circuits 1, 3, 4, 6 ,10 and switch leg B powers panel circuits 2, 5, 7, 8, 9. What does that hurt? And to the OP, whoever added your bath circuits and bath heater violated the NEC (electric code) Funny, we bought our home from the builder of our subdivision . I wonder what else isn't up to code.
I mean,he lived in this home for 11 years before he passed away and we bought the place It's nothing really to worry about, you just can not have more than 6 main breakers, so it's just a technical failure nothing that will burn the house down. |
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I've been reading more about the interlock kits vs the transfer switch. I can't figure out the benefit of the transfer switch over the interlock kit especially considering the cost is usually higher for the install of the transfer switch
Do I need a licensed electrician to install the interlock kit? |
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From what I understand, running 220 you are using both phases so you want to try to equal them out so as not to put undo stress on the generator. Otherwise it would be like you walking down the street, your left leg at half step and your right leg trying to run a 4 minute mile...to try to keep it as simple as possible balance the loads as best you can
Quoted:
...... The real thought process comes in when you're trying to balance the load on the generator. I'm assuming you'll be using a 220v generator to power all those circuits. You'll want to keep the power demand from both legs of the generator within ~500 watts. You need to think about how the circuits will be used when on generator power. You don't want a high demand of power to be on one leg while little is on the other leg. Shorts bursts like running the microwave or coffee pot won't matter, you just don't want to be running at 3000 watts on the leg 1 and 500 watts on leg 2 for hours on end. You'd want to balance things so that 1750 watts would be running on each leg for hours. The best way to figure stuff out is by writing your circuits down on a piece of paper and determining the total watts on those circuits. Then you'll need to rank the circuits by what's most likely to be used for a sustained period. After that you can get a new piece of paper and write down stuff in a balanced layout for the switch. It may be that switch leg A powers panel circuits 1, 3, 4, 6 ,10 and switch leg B powers panel circuits 2, 5, 7, 8, 9. What does that hurt? You want to balance the load to keep one leg from going over its rating and tripping the breaker on the generator. Breakers aren't intended to trip a bunch of times and putting them in that position isn't wise when emergency power is needed. Also, the engine may be forced to run inefficiently in order to make the power for the higher demand on one leg. More watts needed mean higher RPMs needed which means more gas needed. |
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Also, the engine may be forced to run inefficiently in order to make the power for the higher demand on one leg. More watts needed mean higher RPMs needed which means more gas needed. no. a 120Vac/240Vac split-phase alternator head is run at constant speed, either 3600 RPM (2 pole alternator) or 1800 RPM (4 pole alternator), to give a constant 60Hz output. ar-jedi |
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I've been reading more about the interlock kits vs the transfer switch. I can't figure out the benefit of the transfer switch over the interlock kit especially considering the cost is usually higher for the install of the transfer switch. here are some considerations: 1) a suitable interlock kit must exist for your specific breaker panel. 2) two adjacent breaker positions must be available for installation of the new 2 pole backfeed breaker. 3) since the backfeed powers all of the other branch circuit breakers in the panel, careful load handling must be followed or you'll continually pop the generator breaker. Quoted:
Do I need a licensed electrician to install the interlock kit? not necessarily –– assuming you are comfortable with wiring a new 2 pole breaker into your service panel. don't forget, even with the main breaker switched off there are 2 live wires in the panel carrying 120Vac each –– at essentially unlimited current. pay attention, wear glasses, and work carefully/methodically. there are no second chances with unfused feeders. ar-jedi |
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I've been reading more about the interlock kits vs the transfer switch. I can't figure out the benefit of the transfer switch over the interlock kit especially considering the cost is usually higher for the install of the transfer switch. here are some considerations: 1) a suitable interlock kit must exist for your specific breaker panel. 2) two adjacent breaker positions must be available for installation of the new 2 pole backfeed breaker. 3) since the backfeed powers all of the other branch circuit breakers in the panel, careful load handling must be followed or you'll continually pop the generator breaker. Quoted:
Do I need a licensed electrician to install the interlock kit? not necessarily –– assuming you are comfortable with wiring a new 2 pole breaker into your service panel. don't forget, even with the main breaker switched off there are 2 live wires in the panel carrying 120Vac each –– at essentially unlimited current. pay attention, wear glasses, and work carefully/methodically. there are no second chances with unfused feeders. ar-jedi AR-Jedi outlined the exact set-up that was used to install an interlock on my electrical panel early last week! Note: It was important not only to match the same make of panel. I also had to match the right model or series of panel as well to make sure that the interlock would work! |
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Hers'a better pic of my garage sub panel I would need to add a sub pannel main along with the generator breaker in the cut out at the top of the pannel. Does this look like enough space? http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/bhart8911/abc61105fcf752db342ccce77102559d.jpg http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/bhart8911/123dcebdefc0094bb1bcec34d69c71f9.jpg you can get the main in there, but where are you going to put the generator backfeed breaker? it needs a pair of adjacent branch circuit breaker positions to sit within the interspersed "E"s on the panel backplane. otherwise you are going to have to buy some tandem breakers (if your panel accepts them) and free up some positions. ar-jedi |
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you can get the main in there, but where are you going to put the generator backfeed breaker? it needs a pair of adjacent branch circuit breaker positions to sit within the interspersed "E"s on the panel backplane. otherwise you are going to have to buy some tandem breakers (if your panel accepts them) and free up some positions. ar-jedi My thiking was that I could get both the main sub panel cut off and the generator backfeed breaker in that punch out unused space in my garage panel. Does it not look like there is enough room for both? The punchout is 2.25" tall and 4' wide. |