Posted: 9/25/2007 8:47:52 PM EDT
|
This is actually a thread I want to post here for the SF hive mind. I figure its a survival thread because its about bugging out or in if needed and situational awareness. My son is a Senior this year at a small high school. There is a very loud, obnoxious group of students that are harassing a couple of the girls my son and his friends hang around with on a daily basis. My advice to him was that they are walking the edge of what they can get away with by running their mouths, but it borders on threats - saying loudly for all to hear " I'm going to put the beat down on her" while standing within 5 feet of her, etc. What they want is confrontation and an escalation - they want one of the guys or girls to open up the door by confronting them. Then they can take it further. Best thing for him to do is watch carefully and not get hemmed up with them, or caught unawares of them. Also, next time they threaten this girl, she needs to report it right then to the SRO, and also tell the head football coach as well (he's an icon there), since the SRO and administration don't seem to be involved. One of the girls parents has already been to school - but they have a rule there stating if you complain, both you and the accused have to be there to "discuss" it in the principal's office. That apparently got nowhere, because it has gone on this week so far as well. I think with everything in the news, some of these peole are just looking for some publicity or a cause. However, sometimes this is how much darker things get started. My son already understands getting out of there and knows areas of egress all around his school. He also keeps his cell phone handy but out of sight so he doesn't lose it. The last SRO took it away in the parking lot one day before school last year. I went over there that afternoon and got it back and handed it to him in front of the SRO and principal. They weren't real happy about it but understood my adamancy at last. The school administration is apparently taking the low road on this stuff and not trying to reel in the loud mouths or even disperse the groups. Its like they are just waiting until something to happen - then they can hold assemblies and meetings and fillout reports to determine why. Anyone else seeing this going on now in there schools? The students seem to ratcheting up the tension around here. My son knows what he'd be up against if it ever got physical - the harassers -even the female -are bigger than I am. I just don't want to see this escalate in to a big fight or worse. The father of one of my son's friends told him to hit 9-1-1 if something broke out - not to wait on any school authority or SRO, based on how they are handling it. I figure I am going to the principal as well if it keeps going on - kind of an outside voice noting that we see this crap too. Any input or advice is appreciated. |
|
Your topic is High school survival. I'm afraid these days its as real as daylight and many of us who have children in school live it every day. I've done a number of threads on this topic in the past. Here's the reality. The school doesn't care about the kids safety only the safety of the procedures they have to handle the problems that concern their safety. They're very inflexible in this. Start a fight or not, participate it is equal quit. They are training sheep and wolves and there is no place in the system for a sheepdog. Sad isn't it. Cliques, gangs, and racial unrest are common place. Harassment is tolerated until someone gets hurt. Last year a favorite was pulling girls pants down. You want the real crime of Columbine, this is it for its what led to that fateful day. Discipline is a joke in our schools as even the most mundane punishments these days is delegated to the court system. I don't blame the people for its the system that rules them like an iron hammer. Uphold the system and stay employed. The system permits threats so threats will happen. All we can really do is teach our children how to react when those threats become real. As parents, we have to make a conscious decision to intervene and set our children's path forward and not let the schools take over that duty. That's pretty easy if you want you child to be a sheep or wolf but can be awfully difficult if its a sheepdog. If it is a sheepdog then dad be prepared for you will most definitely being spending some time with the school administration. Go ahead and accept the fact. You see something wrong and you don't like, let them know. Get it on the record and even in writing. In writing forces them to react for it is a record. Its a formal complaint or concern. Sometimes you get their attention especially if it is a warning of safety issues. Getting involved isn't just a coined phrase but necessary these days just don't be surprised when you find most parents don't. Sadly unless the court is involved, these days its up to the children to police themselves. The system will not until too late. Then like you said, they will follow the rule book and have their assemblies. That's a pretty tough system if the children, many aren't, are not taught right from wrong from their parents. Children today need to have their friends they can count on in crisis even more than ever before. I not only advocate moral instruction but physical instruction. Its very important they know not only when to act but how in detail. They need to know when they do, Dad is beside them and will support them. They need to know when not to act. That means talking every possible situation you can think of in detail. I'm a big advocate for martial arts in school age children. My son has long wanted to be in law enforcement. That right there put him at odds with the school system. His first fight was not defending himself but a smaller weaker kid being beat on by a bully. He spent one week in a detention school, an almost jail like environment, for defending himself after being attracted by two guys despite both young men openly admitting they attacked him with no provocation. Dad gave the Sheep, Wolf, and Sheepdog speech to an unsympathetic principle that simply said take it up with the school board for the system is what it is. I know your pain. Right now here, there is no racial unrest due to what is happening in Louisiana. The memory of last year is just too fresh in everyones mind. Yes, its that common. Last years problems didn't end well either for the students or the school. Isolated acts of violence against one race was finally answered by more violence by the attacked race which finally had had enough and banded together. Remember who started it doesn't matter in the system, the school got sued by the race that started it for not protecting them when it came to a head. Advice, yes get involved both with your son and the school. Depending on the severity even get involved with the local papers and school board. I've done all of this and will probably have to do more. My son's only a Junior. Tj |
|
Yeah this stuff sucks. when My little brother was in sixth grade he was jumped by around 6 black guys. My brother is white and did not know any of these kids. whats this sound like to yall? Anyway, my brother got a black eye bloody nose, messed up. He and the kids who did it to him (that he could ID, again he didn't know them) were suspended. Yes, my brother was suspended for getting his ass kicked when caught by surprise going to the restroom or something. Well my parents went up there and raised hell and got him out of the punishment. One of my good friends at the same school was at his locker when someone came up and punched him in the back of the head. My friend never saw the guy and just hit the ground, other people told him who did it. He went to the office to report it and in doing so got himself suspended for just being involved. Our school systems are messed up. A couple years ago there was another incident where an 8th grader was jumped by an unknown number of guys who knocked him to the ground and stomped on him. He was severely hurt and went to the ER, suffered some brain damage. This is in a small town with very little violent crime. |
| Yup, my Senior student was a senior last year. He was walking down the hall and a big kid was beating a smaller kid up. THe smaller kid went to the hospital. My sttudent told the attacker to stop, when he didn't, he hit him once like I ahad taught him. THe fight stopped as he had a broken leg then. My student was punished for it, took it like a man and told the teacher he should have DONE SOMETHING...libatard just whined |
| If you think something bad is about to go down, I'd contact the police department. I don't know where in NC you are located, but in the town where I live the police are actively involved with the school system and are seen in the schools almost daily. I know this because my wife works in a classroom of an elementry school. Speak with one of the detectives in the department and at least give him a "heads up" as to what is taking place and what you feel may happen. It's been my experience that the police don't take threats in schools lightly with all that has happened in the past few years. At least get some advise from them. |
|
Unfortunately our school system has failed and keeps failing in a lot of arenas. My daughter is a senior and have stood up on several occasions against bullies. No fist fights fortunately. But someday it may come. Our teachers and school administrators have gotten weak in discipline and keeping bullies in check. Machaira with your son's situation since he's aware of egress he may have to learn defense. One suggestion is to utilize a voice recorder not only one event but several and present that to the school administrators. |
A lot of the problem is school administrators are afraid of being sued. The state comes down with a new rule or regulation just about everyday. God forbid someone finds out that a certain child is receiving free school lunch or that a certain child is performing at a lower grade level. My Wife has told me more than a few times that a child who has performed below grade level was promoted to the next grade, against the teachers advise, because he was too big (in size) to be left behind. So now you have a kid in junior high school who reads at a second grade level, is as dumb as a log, but he'll graduate as long as he's too big to be left behind. It's easier to just promote the child than to have to pay a lawyer to defend a school system even though you have documented proof that the child is performing below grade level. They figure, why get buried in paperwork when in a year or two the child will be someone elses problem. You don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by leaving their child behind to repeat a grade! That's just a small fraction of what they have deal with on a daily basis. |
|
Here is my $.06 worth. Far too many people (myself included sometimes) are waiting for someone else to take care of it. Along with this is that since they didn't see anything, they can rationalize it that nothing really happened, and that the one student is overreacting or making it up. The best thing to do is make them fill out the forms to amke it official that something happened. I think far too many have become nothing more than paper-pushers, and they would rather do nothing rather than make a decision, take action and possibly offend someone. Teach you kid right, to do what's right, and stand up like a man. There may be consequences, but if he gets a reputation for doing what's right, that will work in his favor. Also, don't forget to fill in the huge gaps that the school leaves in your child's education, he will need it. |
|
Since public schools are publicly funded, your best bet is to inform the stock holders. In other words, go to the press. One well-placed round fired by a newspaper will kick off an endless series of meetings, investigations, finger-pointing, career-survival-mode-butt-covering-moves that will put a stop to it for a year or two. With the current state of the national headlines it would be an easy thing to sell to a paper. Even a blogger can get under a school systems skin if it's done well. I've seen a letter to the editor rip the lid right off lesser situations than this. The taxpayers deserve accountability from public school systems. Administrators always crow about private and charter schools but they sure as heck don't want a peep of criticism thrown their way. Make a public demand for a safe environment that is conducive to learning and then let the chips fall where they may. I attended a high school that developed a bullying problem. Our temporary principal, really the shop teacher, solved it by informing ALL the seniors that it was our school and we were to stand up against this sort of thing, no matter who it was. We were expected to take care of one another and NOBODY was to be bullied. If we crossed the line we would answer to him and the punishment would be severe and immediate. The problem was solved in less than a week and the solution cut across several social groups and income levels. If he tried that today, he'd be run out of the profession. In the meanwhile, teach your kid situational awareness, how to resist verbal abuse, and support him when it's time for him to stand up for what is right. Loving your enemies like a brother can be a mighty hard thing, and sometimes brothers fight, but it's the only way. J. |
|
We run into this as well, altho the racial thingis basent here. SBK and I have wargamed scenarios from bullying to Beslan, and here is what we do. I have gotten a tenured teacher fired by doing the state board/newspaper/shcool board route, so I doubt that SBK will be punished for self defense. He's a big kid and knowledgable in MA, so I suspect that the punks are leaving him alone out of fear that they will get thier asses kicked. In his forst year in this school, he was being picked on by a smaller kid with a rep as a bully, so we had a meetingwith his teachers and the assistant principal. We told them that 1) this bullying kid has a record of bahavior, so thier 'zero tolerance' was bullshit, and that SBK was trained in MA and would defend himself if attacked. I also told them that in the event of multiple attackers, I'd expect for a couple to end up in the hospital by the time it was over. It would look really good if the scholl suspended a kid who defended himself from multiple attackers, who in turn got punished for doing so. My reputation preceded me, I got a few googoo eyes. The trouble maker got sent to another class. SBK has yet to get into a physical confrontation. Apparently too many school teachers got bulliede when they were kids, and STILL don't understand that sometimes an asskicking is what needs to happen. Fucking dumbass liberals. Ops ETA: Threatining to attack someone is a crime, and coudl even be interpreted as felonious assault. Time for someone to bypass the school shitheads and call the real cops. |
|
I live in a small town in central Pennsylvania, surrounded by the Amish and farmland. We just had a major "incident" about two weeks ago that not only the school district but the city is trying to keep quiet. Something pretty much like what you described with your son, occurred at our "city high school". A "group" (gang) of hispanic youths were picking on some girl, and some boy told them to knock it off... The School of course did not want to get involved because of the risk of being labeled "racist". Well, after school was over, this poor white kid who spoke up, had 30, yes 30! Hispanic youths following him home from school... When he reached a hispanic neighborhood, they jumped him and beat the crap out of him for 5-8 minutes! We know this because the residents in this neighborhood all came out on their porches, and into the streets to watch this one kid get beat unconscious... He crawed up onto the porch of one house begging for help, only to have the hispanic resident yell at him, and slam the door in his face... thats when the 30 kids beat him unconscious. After it was all over, someone called the police, and after they gave the GANG enough time to get away the police finally showed up, and wouldn't you know it, NO ONE! Not one person in that neighborhood saw or heard a thing! If that can occur in my humble small town, it can happen anywhere... Sometimes I think that we look too hard for a big dramatic SHTF event, that we don't see as far as society goes, the "S" has already hit and is dripping off the fan... Yelling at school officials is not going to get anything done, you have to clean up society, and good luck! You cannot make people "care". |
|
Besides the appaling lack of education and the rampant social programming, THIS is a reason that I'm afraid of putting my two young kids into public school when they are old enough. It also reminds me of why I carried a knife in school every day since 3rd grade, when someone first put a knife to my throat (for being white, as the attacker told me). I had lots of run ins with bullies throughout school. I wasn't the biggest or baddest (far from it) but couldn't stand the idea of cowing down to bullies. Back then at least they would only punish the agressor, not the victim who defended himself. I am so disgusted by the fact that our schools are programming children to become helpless victims. |
Yes, we notices this about 7 years ago our neighbors were going to the exact same kind of issues, and in this case the problem involved their son getting beaten up several times. They are good parents (dad is an Army Vet) and tried to work with the school but the administrator was not interested in resolving the issue. That was one of the primary motivators as to why we chose homeschooling for our children 2 years later. |
|
Some good advice here in this thread. Do all of the above. Contact then schools admins and let them know that if something happens that they have been made aware of they will be held accountable. Let the police know. If one of the bullies said the girl will get a beatdown, then he has committed assault. Often times kids feel as they are in a cocoon at school. They feel that they are the masters of their domain. Kids make mistakes. I am not saying to have the kids arrested but sufficient pressure can be asserted by the police and school officials to deter a situation. Do not be afraid to stand up and speak out. AccurateOne |
|
Being a high school senior, here is my .02 cents: First of all let me say, these days THERE IS NO SELF DEFENSE in schools anymore. I can almost guarantee you that both parties involved will be suspended. I go to a small school, and we don't usually have a lot of discrimination or people being picked on, so I can't help you out a lot there. Keep trying to go to a school official, or maybe your son has a good relationship with a teacher who will really listen. Is your son trained in any martial arts or self defense? I think all teens should get some kind of training. Maybe pops could even give him some pointers? If things do happen to get physical, make sure you press the issue of standing up for others and self defense if he is hit first. Tell your boy and his friends to just try to ignore the harassment and stick together. I hope everything works out well for you and yours. |
|
Thanks for the input guys. Some of this I have already done and some I am in process of doing. I had not thought of a letter to the editor of the local paper but that might be in order as well. I can see the disconnect where the school faculty know that if they just get thru this year, certain ones will be gone - problem solved.......for them at least. What really bothers me is the non-involvement of the SRO when some of the threats were being made. He stood off watching but at a distance. I don't know what his rules of engagement are but at least moving closer and moving the perpetrators away would have been a minimum. Two things people like this recognize - force and fear. Thinking of my 5-11, 130lb son tangling with an amazon - she's 19 and a sophmore, 6-2, approx 160-170 lbs of stupid loud mouth, and the former "star" of the football team, he's about 6' and about 190, I'd say. So force is not always a viable option. But knowing that they are on their last damn chance and looking at court for communicating threats may be. And the school administrator knowing he's being scrutinized may help too. Perilous times we live in. |
|
My wife is a Principal at a local school, and she is so hemed in by lawsuits from parents that she can do nothing... She has certified scicopaths(sp?) in her school that she cannot kick out. Federal law has gotten so out of control that there is no local control, and if there is, they dont think about child safty, they think about lawsuits... Its all about money.... MY ADVICE, HOME SCHOOL IF AT ALL POSSIBLE. I personally, will never hand my child over to ther gubermant to be indocturnated and turned into socilistst(sp?). As long as we feed people who dont work, our country will not be free. |