Posted: 7/3/2012 9:50:25 AM EDT
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My parents farm is being considered for a 50 acre solar farm for the local power company. Does anyone here have any experience with the pro's and con's of this kind of arrangement?
They have offered to either buy or lease the land. Other than that not alot of details yet. My parents are meeting with them friday to discuss it further. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Boro |
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My parents farm is being considered for a 50 acre solar farm for the local power company. Does anyone here have any experience with the pro's and con's of this kind of arrangement? They have offered to either buy or lease the land. Other than that not alot of details yet. My parents are meeting with them friday to discuss it further. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Boro They otta take the enviroweeniwacko libtards $$$ straight to the bank. Suggest to them they negotiate hard and don't fall for any Obama crew BS like they otta do it for little $$$ to save the Earth from Climate Change Nonsense. Seems like the worst is they can 'harvest'  a bunch of panels someday when these 'solar farms' are found to be highly inefficient and a waste of taxpayer $$$ to benefit Friends of the Left.
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As a person who builds these things, I can tell you thats going to be in the area of 5 Mega-watts if its a stationary (non tracking) system. Tracking systems could improve productivity up to 100%, but will also just about double the cost.
The money spent will be in the multi-millions, so don't take any low-ball bullshit. There is no real serious detriment to the environment, assuming a deer doesn't try eating a wire. The land will be essentially off limits as it is now a power plant. So don't let them go telling you you can still use the land like its not there or something. The area the installation takes place in will be temporarily "destroyed" on account of equipment driving over it dozens of times, trenches being dug for conduit runs, pile driving poles into the ground or concrete. Its all dependent on the racking system used, and there are hundreds of different options. If it were me, I would lease the land. And "free" electricity would be cool. Good luck! |
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One thing I would make sure of, is that my pay check had nothing to do with any government tax breaks or benny's or ANY future regulations that could affect to the power company.
The gov can cut those incentives at anytime, or add to the already mountains of rules and regs, and then what happens to your parents pay check? I would also make sure that in the event something happens to them, that everything transfers to the new owner. I don't know about you, but my crystal ball is still not working to well. I would also have it addressed in there about selling the property and new owners. I mean what happens if you had someone offer you a sweet price that is actually a life changing offer that you could use to buy a new place debt free or even start that dream business as well. Just keep YOUR options open. Basically like other have said, get a lawyer. Write down EVERYTHING you can think of and talk to a lawyer about your concerns. All these things are not going to change what the power company wants to do or their bottom line, but it will protect you in any and all future events. |
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How about a monetary inflation clause? I am not sure how you would work it, but it might be something to consider. Probably something like this: "In addition, if during the initial term or any renewal term there is an increase in the Producer Price Index over the Producer Price Index reported for the month in which you signed your Order, we may increase your fees by the same percentage as the increase in the Producer Price Index; provided that we may not increase your fees pursuant to this sentence more often than once per twelve months, and we must give you at least thirty days advance written notice of the increase. The "Producer Price Index" means the Producer Price Index for Finished Goods, WPUSOP3000, not seasonally adjusted, and first published as "preliminary" data by the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics in its PPI Detailed Report or successor publication. For historical information on the Producer Price Index, you may visit the Bureau of Labor Statistics website. (Example: if the Producer Price Index for the month in which you sign the Order is 186, and then increases in a subsequent month during the term of the Order to 195, we may increase your fees by up to 4.8%)." |
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Why not build your OWN solar farm? USA made HELIOS modules are down around $1.25 per watt... This is going to be around a $15,000,000 project best that we can figure. That is well beyond anything that they could do. We went and looked at a similiar setup about 50 miles away yesterday that is a private corporation, we were really impressed by the setup. |
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Even if they don't get the deal I would consider solar just because they must have some nice sunshine in order to be considered. These days I would probably work out a deal to sell outright if the price was right because there is a fair bit of property for sale at decent prices if you have the cash to close on the deal. I also get annoyed with "property" that is mine but I can't use it and I have to let others come in and work on stuff and check on stuff periodically. The lawyer thing would be my first step and I guess if this thing could have its own entry road and security fencing that they maintain I could handle having it there if it pays me enough. I would seriously consider the news of the recent solar panel companies going bankrupt though and all the government subsidies this thing is probably relying on. That is why I would want my money in an up front chunk but I could see still working the lease as well if the property means something to your family or is just an awesome property. If I go lease a car I have to put so much down. I personally could live with them leaving the stuff there once the lease is up. Just the amount of copper and scrap would be awesome but I personally think it would still put out more than enough power for little ol me long after their math says the panels are done. Put a lot of thought into people trying to steal the copper or just having all the construction going on for x number of months. I would either work a ton of overtime or take a vacation for part of it. I hate people and noise. At least these things will be quiet once done. |
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Put a lot of thought into people trying to steal the copper Yep - If it's a constant invitation for thieves to break into your property, that's not good. And it's not just the copper - Stolen solar panels would also go for big bucks on ebay or Craigslist. |
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Why not build your OWN solar farm? USA made HELIOS modules are down around $1.25 per watt... This is going to be around a $15,000,000 project best that we can figure. That is well beyond anything that they could do. We went and looked at a similiar setup about 50 miles away yesterday that is a private corporation, we were really impressed by the setup. Not all at once. Build in stages. Plan for expansion, once the revenue is streaming in, invest in more PV. |
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Wait a minute.
Your property is being considered BY the local utility or FOR the local utility? Massive difference. The first scenario implies that there is something inherently advantageous to the utility with regard to your property, including perhaps proximity to other infrastructure. However, this is rarely the case. Utilities almost never develop these projects on their own on land they don't already own or control. The second implies that you're talking to a third-party developer. If that's the case, buyer beware. There are some established folks who are very good at this...and there are a lot of shysters (or just get-rich-quickers) who have little idea what they're really doing and making ridiculous claims. Be somewhat skeptical of any developer. Ask about prior experience and in-service projects. Subscribed. |
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Boro,
As someone who deals with mineral management situations daily, (oil/natural gas/coal), be cautious and realistic. Remember you are negotiating with a power company, if you become too much of an @$$ they can and will use their right of Eminent domain. Eminent domain, an action of the state to seize a citizen's private property, expropriate property, or seize a citizen's rights in property with due monetary compensation, but without the owner's consent. The property is taken either for government use or by delegation to third parties who will devote it to public or civic use or, in some cases, economic development. The most common uses of property taken by eminent domain are for public utilities, highways, and railroads. |
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Why not build your OWN solar farm? USA made HELIOS modules are down around $1.25 per watt... This is going to be around a $15,000,000 project best that we can figure. That is well beyond anything that they could do. We went and looked at a similiar setup about 50 miles away yesterday that is a private corporation, we were really impressed by the setup. Not all at once. Build in stages. Plan for expansion, once the revenue is streaming in, invest in more PV. Do you actually think, in the absence of corporate welfare, that a solar farm can make money? The only reason that the private corporation is in it is the subsidies. If you are going to "bootstrap" a successful "solar farm" you are imagining things... |
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Why not build your OWN solar farm? USA made HELIOS modules are down around $1.25 per watt... This is going to be around a $15,000,000 project best that we can figure. That is well beyond anything that they could do. We went and looked at a similiar setup about 50 miles away yesterday that is a private corporation, we were really impressed by the setup. Not all at once. Build in stages. Plan for expansion, once the revenue is streaming in, invest in more PV. Do you actually think, in the absence of corporate welfare, that a solar farm can make money? The only reason that the private corporation is in it is the subsidies. If you are going to "bootstrap" a successful "solar farm" you are imagining things... Precisely. Solar farms are a mechanism [of many] to take taxpayer money and transfer it to the connected. And I don't mean 'electrically connected'!
Folks need to get a clue. |
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Wait a minute. Your property is being considered BY the local utility or FOR the local utility? Massive difference. The first scenario implies that there is something inherently advantageous to the utility with regard to your property, including perhaps proximity to other infrastructure. However, this is rarely the case. Utilities almost never develop these projects on their own on land they don't already own or control. The second implies that you're talking to a third-party developer. If that's the case, buyer beware. There are some established folks who are very good at this...and there are a lot of shysters (or just get-rich-quickers) who have little idea what they're really doing and making ridiculous claims. Be somewhat skeptical of any developer. Ask about prior experience and in-service projects. Subscribed. After finally meeting face to face with the negotioator today my parents found out that the negotioator is a third party developer that is building these solar farms FOR the local utilities. HUGE RED FLAG went up today  . My fathers first reaction after the meeting was that he felt like he was being conned, his gut instincts are usually correct. The proposal is going to the lawyers Monday to be reviewed. All the warm and fuzzy feelings are now gone.
I would like to thank everyone that has given advice. I sincerely appreciate each of you taking the time to post your thought and experiences on the subject. Hopefully it has diverted a possible shyster from taking what my parents have spent a lifetime aquiring. |