Posted: 1/30/2015 9:09:28 PM EDT
 Going to test heat, burn time, and boil time. I'll have my boy record it tomorrow night. |
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Well, nevermind then. |
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Well, nevermind then. Quoted:
Well, nevermind then.
Do it anyway. Never hurts to confirm data... |
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Quoted: Should have been "DO".... Don't is actually the exact opposite of what I was saying  . Damn "smartphone".  Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Don't it anyway. Never hurts to confirm data...  Should have been "DO".... Don't is actually the exact opposite of what I was saying . Damn "smartphone". I speed read it, and took it for how you meant, not you wrote.
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I never really gave it much thought but I have the bluet brand fuel tabs and pocket stove since they were clearance at REI for like $4. After watching some of those videos it turns out the bluet is said to be pretty poor for actually cooking and won't light up with a ferro rod. Thankfully I only planned to use them as a "cheat" fire starter as I prefer wood fires.
Based on the videos posted, it looks like I should pick up some actual esbit tabs next time I see them on sale. Thanks for posting bcauzy. |
| Part of my winter vehicle water plan uses esbit tabs. I just assume that my water will be frozen and I keep a few packs of tabs and for melting heat along with an aluminum pot. I actually switched to plastic disposable water bottles in the winter because the plastic can be cut off of them exposing the block of ice for melting. I rotate them periodically. Once melted the water would be stored in pouches I can fit on the inside of my cost if necessary. |
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Well, not exactly the results we were hoping for. Single Esbit: boil 16oz - FAIL Two Coghlans" boil 16oz - FAIL The two coghlans got hotter (~100 deg hotter) than the Esbit, but burned out faster, in about 11 minutes. Never got a boil with either!!! Had to go back to tried and true twigs in the stove to get a boil. Took 15 minutes, and started it with a cotton/petroleum ball.  I'm taking the fuel tablets out of my kit, and going back to twigs and cottonballs.
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This is the stove I used for testing: We did test rubbing alcohol in a cut off beer can, and it got hotter than either of the fuel tablets, but still didn't get a boil. |
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Another note: Neither of the tablets would light from a ferro rod. The alcohol and petroleum/cotton did. I think I remember the old round hexamine tabs took a bit to light but trioxane bars were much easier. I've never cared for either as fuel. I normally use an MSR Whisperlite International stove. |
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This is the stove I used for testing: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FOPO0AW/ref=pe_385040_30332200_TE_item We did test rubbing alcohol in a cut off beer can, and it got hotter than either of the fuel tablets, but still didn't get a boil. I'm a fan of Esbit/hexamine fuel tabs, but they have their limitations. Possibility, the pot of water you used required more BTU's than the tabs could be fairly expected to provide? Our experience is that one tab is roughtly sufficient to prepare a bag of Mountain House if it isn't too cold out. Incidentally, larger qty's of tabs can be purchased from ebay Sellers at good prices. Some years ago a company was selling a sort of rocket stove that had a small fan that ran on 2 AA batteries. It would burn most any scrap twigs available and make a good high BTU fire. I could never get the tabs to light from sparks either, some sort of secondary assist is needed. In any case good experiments and good info! |
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Yea, it was cold out, and a little windy. The container was thicker, too. this one I think the water was hot enough to warm food, or to get a mountain house good enough to eat. |
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Yea, it was cold out, and a little windy. The container was thicker, too. this one I think the water was hot enough to warm food, or to get a mountain house good enough to eat. That explains some of your results, then. Stainless has a much higher heat capacity than aluminum and a much lower thermal conductivity. In short, it takes more heat to change the temperature of stainless, and once you get it hot it isn't as good at transferring heat to your water. |
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Quoted: That explains some of your results, then. Stainless has a much higher heat capacity than aluminum and a much lower thermal conductivity. In short, it takes more heat to change the temperature of stainless, and once you get it hot it isn't as good at transferring heat to your water. Quoted: Quoted: Yea, it was cold out, and a little windy. The container was thicker, too. this one I think the water was hot enough to warm food, or to get a mountain house good enough to eat. That explains some of your results, then. Stainless has a much higher heat capacity than aluminum and a much lower thermal conductivity. In short, it takes more heat to change the temperature of stainless, and once you get it hot it isn't as good at transferring heat to your water. Thank you for explaining that.
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Quoted: Boiled a cup and half of water (room temp) in a minute and 35 seconds. http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/hero2three/Mobile%20Uploads/20150131_114257_zpshvdleznl.jpg http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/hero2three/Mobile%20Uploads/20150131_114312_zpssa5hmucp.jpg I say, not bad for my first time building one. (And with help of a 9 year old) |
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Heet? Quoted:
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Boiled a cup and half of water (room temp) in a minute and 35 seconds. http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/hero2three/Mobile%20Uploads/20150131_114257_zpshvdleznl.jpg http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/hero2three/Mobile%20Uploads/20150131_114312_zpssa5hmucp.jpg I say, not bad for my first time building one. (And with help of a 9 year old) There's 2 kinds of Heet, IIRC methanol and isopropyl alcohols. IIRC, both have similar BTU characteristics. Yellow and red bottles, cheapest at the Dollar Type Stores. Used to be $1 a bottle. |
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I once coked one of those Hormel Compleats meals in a small aluminum loaf pan that was put crosswise over another loaf pan. Inside the lower pan was an aluminum cupcake liner that I'd squirted about a quarter of an inch of hand sanitizer in. Lit it with lighter, put top pan on, had boiling lunch in 2 minutes. (Note that the regular time in a microwave is 90 seconds.)
I may have to try a similar experiment with an esbit tab and see what happens. |
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This is the stove I used for testing: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FOPO0AW/ref=pe_385040_30332200_TE_item We did test rubbing alcohol in a cut off beer can, and it got hotter than either of the fuel tablets, but still didn't get a boil. Do you think the stove was part of the issue? It seems like while those are great for wood fires, it may have too much open space for heat to escape for fuel tabs. Since I have the same exact oilcamp 16oz cup, I may have to try out the folding bluet (esbit copy) stove to see if that does any better getting a boil. I do keep this setup in my GHB afterall, it's only wise to test it. I'll also compare to my $4 DIY solostove. Will report back this afternoon. UPDATE: It is 41F here with inconsistent light wind. I just tried the Bluet pocket stove and fuel tab, took 2 matches to light, won't light with ferro rod, burned for 12m 40s but failed to boil 16oz of water in an oilcamp cup w/ aluminum foil lid. At 8min the water was 135F, at 11min as the flame was visibly dieing down the water was 140F. There were bubbles forming but not even close to boiling, being 70F shy of the boiling point. I believe it would take 2 tabs or better yet a good ol' trusty wood fire. I'll continue to keep these tabs in my pack as a fire starting aid, knowing they're not ideal for boiling water. I attempted to try my DIY solostove but it turns out the pot stand I built is too large for the oilcamp cup since I built it with my GSI MicroDaulist in mind. So nothing to tell here, sorry. |
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Quoted: Do you think the stove was part of the issue? It seems like while those are great for wood fires, it may have too much open space for heat to escape for fuel tabs. Since I have the same exact oilcamp 16oz cup, I may have to try out the folding bluet (esbit copy) stove to see if that does any better getting a boil. I do keep this setup in my GHB afterall, it's only wise to test it. I'll also compare to my $4 DIY solostove. Will report back this afternoon. UPDATE: It is 41F here with inconsistent light wind. I just tried the Bluet pocket stove and fuel tab, took 2 matches to light, won't light with ferro rod, burned for 12m 40s but failed to boil 16oz of water in an oilcamp cup w/ aluminum foil lid. At 8min the water was 135F, at 11min as the flame was visibly dieing down the water was 140F. There were bubbles forming but not even close to boiling, being 70F shy of the boiling point. I believe it would take 2 tabs or better yet a good ol' trusty wood fire. I'll continue to keep these tabs in my pack as a fire starting aid, knowing they're not ideal for boiling water. I attempted to try my DIY solostove but it turns out the pot stand I built is too large for the oilcamp cup since I built it with my GSI MicroDaulist in mind. So nothing to tell here, sorry. Quoted: Quoted: This is the stove I used for testing: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FOPO0AW/ref=pe_385040_30332200_TE_item We did test rubbing alcohol in a cut off beer can, and it got hotter than either of the fuel tablets, but still didn't get a boil. Do you think the stove was part of the issue? It seems like while those are great for wood fires, it may have too much open space for heat to escape for fuel tabs. Since I have the same exact oilcamp 16oz cup, I may have to try out the folding bluet (esbit copy) stove to see if that does any better getting a boil. I do keep this setup in my GHB afterall, it's only wise to test it. I'll also compare to my $4 DIY solostove. Will report back this afternoon. UPDATE: It is 41F here with inconsistent light wind. I just tried the Bluet pocket stove and fuel tab, took 2 matches to light, won't light with ferro rod, burned for 12m 40s but failed to boil 16oz of water in an oilcamp cup w/ aluminum foil lid. At 8min the water was 135F, at 11min as the flame was visibly dieing down the water was 140F. There were bubbles forming but not even close to boiling, being 70F shy of the boiling point. I believe it would take 2 tabs or better yet a good ol' trusty wood fire. I'll continue to keep these tabs in my pack as a fire starting aid, knowing they're not ideal for boiling water. I attempted to try my DIY solostove but it turns out the pot stand I built is too large for the oilcamp cup since I built it with my GSI MicroDaulist in mind. So nothing to tell here, sorry. |
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I did an experiment about a year ago and didn't have any problems getting a boil with the Esbit cubes, however it was not very cold out and I was using a different pot.
Here is the write up: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/674400_.html I also used tin foil at the bottom and stood the cube upright. Just something to try. |
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Quoted: I did an experiment about a year ago and didn't have any problems getting a boil with the Esbit cubes, however it was not very cold out and I was using a different pot. Here is the write up: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/674400_.html I also used tin foil at the bottom and stood the cube upright. Just something to try. Makes sense to me. Honestly though I think I'd rather have something I know I can get a boil out of, no matter what conditions.
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Thanks guys. bcauz3y, good test anyway. It is great to know the limits of equipment and systems. hero2three, you dun good on that there stove. It is purdy. planemaker, I know what movie you watch...key word "sand dab."  
Google tells me a sanddab is a "medium sized flatfish" normally found in the Pacific. I'm guessing they are easily cooked in one of those smallish bread loaf pans? ETA: These are the loaf pans I was using: 1lb. mini loaf pan at Wallyworld These are the little cupcake liners: aluminum liners (baking cups) |
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Makes sense to me. Honestly though I think I'd rather have something I know I can get a boil out of, no matter what conditions.
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I did an experiment about a year ago and didn't have any problems getting a boil with the Esbit cubes, however it was not very cold out and I was using a different pot. Here is the write up: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/674400_.html I also used tin foil at the bottom and stood the cube upright. Just something to try. Makes sense to me. Honestly though I think I'd rather have something I know I can get a boil out of, no matter what conditions.
I actually use mine quite a bit, its kind of my go-to system. However when its time to make dinner I usually use two cubes standing upright back-to-back. This gives me more than enough to get a rolling boil and to make a nice and hot cup of hot chocolate (dont judge me  )
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Quoted: I actually use mine quite a bit, its kind of my go-to system. However when its time to make dinner I usually use two cubes standing upright back-to-back. This gives me more than enough to get a rolling boil and to make a nice and hot cup of hot chocolate (dont judge me )Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I did an experiment about a year ago and didn't have any problems getting a boil with the Esbit cubes, however it was not very cold out and I was using a different pot. Here is the write up: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/674400_.html I also used tin foil at the bottom and stood the cube upright. Just something to try. Makes sense to me. Honestly though I think I'd rather have something I know I can get a boil out of, no matter what conditions. I actually use mine quite a bit, its kind of my go-to system. However when its time to make dinner I usually use two cubes standing upright back-to-back. This gives me more than enough to get a rolling boil and to make a nice and hot cup of hot chocolate (dont judge me ) |
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I think the fundamental takeaway from this thread is that most users will need to carry a lot more heat agent (whatever form) in the winter. Stands to reason, given a container of cold water to heat up to a boil, not to mention heating up frozen water.
If one has an alcohol stove that is not easily refilled, then carry two, or three. Point is to be able to boil possibly contaminated water, under worst-possible survival conditions: Winter-- frozen water, wind, snowing, hands numb, Bic lighten not working. You get the drift. We can't have too many of these sorts of real world, extreme tests. |
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Quoted: I think the fundamental takeaway from this thread is that most users will need to carry a lot more heat agent (whatever form) in the winter. Stands to reason, given a container of cold water to heat up to a boil, not to mention heating up frozen water. If one has an alcohol stove that is not easily refilled, then carry two, or three. Point is to be able to boil possibly contaminated water, under worst-possible survival conditions: Winter-- frozen water, wind, snowing, hands numb, Bic lighten not working. You get the drift. We can't have too many of these sorts of real world, extreme tests. As long as I get it started, I can boil as much water as I have time for.
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Quoted: There's 2 kinds of Heet, IIRC methanol and isopropyl alcohols. IIRC, both have similar BTU characteristics. Yellow and red bottles, cheapest at the Dollar Type Stores. Used to be $1 a bottle. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Boiled a cup and half of water (room temp) in a minute and 35 seconds. http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/hero2three/Mobile%20Uploads/20150131_114257_zpshvdleznl.jpg http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/hero2three/Mobile%20Uploads/20150131_114312_zpssa5hmucp.jpg I say, not bad for my first time building one. (And with help of a 9 year old) There's 2 kinds of Heet, IIRC methanol and isopropyl alcohols. IIRC, both have similar BTU characteristics. Yellow and red bottles, cheapest at the Dollar Type Stores. Used to be $1 a bottle. Use Yellow heat for these kinds of stoves. Methanol is what you want. Toxic fumes though so use in well ventilated area, avoid skin contact. Don't use Isopropyl at all. Burns like water. Bad. |
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I agree, that's why I'm going to rely on wood. I know it's different in every AO, but here, fallen limbs, trees, twigs, etc is really common, and pretty much everywhere. As long as I get it started, I can boil as much water as I have time for. Quoted:
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I think the fundamental takeaway from this thread is that most users will need to carry a lot more heat agent (whatever form) in the winter. Stands to reason, given a container of cold water to heat up to a boil, not to mention heating up frozen water. If one has an alcohol stove that is not easily refilled, then carry two, or three. Point is to be able to boil possibly contaminated water, under worst-possible survival conditions: Winter-- frozen water, wind, snowing, hands numb, Bic lighten not working. You get the drift. We can't have too many of these sorts of real world, extreme tests. As long as I get it started, I can boil as much water as I have time for. I agree completely. Sometimes wood is unavailable, such as in true desert, or above tree line in mountains.. |