Posted: 2/14/2009 6:41:50 AM EDT
| how long does a bag of saline last? |
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The nice thing about NACL is that even after they are expired you can cut them open and use them for irrigation fluids.
I've seen and used IV's that were 2 years out of date. Check for floaties, is the bag still pliable? etc. I'm not a doctor so don't take this to mean anything whatsoever. Get proper training. |
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how long does a bag of saline last? Until the expiration date. thats right, ten seconds after the expiration date it can no longer be used. the ten seconds is to account for variations in time keeping. by the way, you can extend the life of all medications by sending them to the west coast becasue you gain an extra hour or two that way. |
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how long does a bag of saline last? Until the expiration date. thats right, ten seconds after the expiration date it can no longer be used. the ten seconds is to account for variations in time keeping. by the way, you can extend the life of all medications by sending them to the west coast becasue you gain an extra hour or two that way. ok ill do that. |
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how long does a bag of saline last? Until the expiration date. thats right, ten seconds after the expiration date it can no longer be used. the ten seconds is to account for variations in time keeping. by the way, you can extend the life of all medications by sending them to the west coast becasue you gain an extra hour or two that way. Thank you for your constructive contribution to the discussion. Go get on an airplane with your LR and just chase the next time zone there Killer. |
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Thank you for your constructive contribution to the discussion. There was a point to my comment, that apparently did not occur to you. Government or other entities often requires that these kind of things have an expiration date on them. that does not mean the product is automatically bad ten seconds after the expiration date. Many products that have expiration dates on them are quite safe to use years, even decades later if they have been stored correctly. Stored incorrectly, they may go bad long before the stated expiration date. |
Seriously, it really depends on the temperature you keep it at. Also, are you trained in the use of IV fluids, lines, and aseptic technique? Do you trust your mad DX skillz enough to know when you shouldn't give your patient fluids? Do you think that if stuff's bad enough that you need a liter or three of NS, there's gonna be an easy way to resupply, or a hospital to get your blow out to? As has been said countless times before in this very forum, don't have wet dreams about setting up a hospital in your house. Unless you have a ton of cash to do it properly, you're just wasting your time. You'd be much better off making up some oral rehydration salts and storing them and a good water filter. I've worked in a hospital pharmacy for six years, do you have any idea how fast a trauma pt. can go through fluids? We have a machine in the trauma rooms that is capable of pumping your body's entire blood supply into you in about two minutes, and it sees daily use (yay for cracktown GSW's!). |
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http://www.rudezone.net/images/notThisShitAgain.gif Seriously, it really depends on the temperature you keep it at. Also, are you trained in the use of IV fluids, lines, and aseptic technique? Do you trust your mad DX skillz enough to know when you shouldn't give your patient fluids? Do you think that if stuff's bad enough that you need a liter or three of NS, there's gonna be an easy way to resupply, or a hospital to get your blow out to? As has been said countless times before in this very forum, don't have wet dreams about setting up a hospital in your house. Unless you have a ton of cash to do it properly, you're just wasting your time. You'd be much better off making up some oral rehydration salts and storing them and a good water filter. I've worked in a hospital pharmacy for six years, do you have any idea how fast a trauma pt. can go through fluids? We have a machine in the trauma rooms that is capable of pumping your body's entire blood supply into you in about two minutes, and it sees daily use (yay for cracktown GSW's!). the whole reason im asking is the wifie is a nurse and i think it would be a handy SHTF item to have. i dont plan on setting up a hospitol just want a few of these around just in case something happens. |
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the whole reason im asking is the wifie is a nurse and i think it would be a handy SHTF item to have. i dont plan on setting up a hospitol just want a few of these around just in case something happens. So, think this through with me: what do you plan on being able to fix with a few liters of NS? If they're bad enough that they need an IV, you need to call an ambulance. Anything you do is gonna screw them up. If there is no ambulance to call, giving them a few liters of fluid isn't going to do anything but prolong their suffering. |
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dehydration, sickness, etc. maybe it will buy someone time enough to get them somewhere. who knows? better to have and not need than to not have and need. Both of which Oral Rehydration Solution will work better for. Cheaper and safer then an IV site, too. |
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ok sure. i know about oral solutions but they only only fix one of the problems, dehydration. what about blood loss? Again, if the pt. is to the point that they've lost that much blood and you can't get them to an ER, a bag or two of NS ain't gonna do diddly. |
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actually a bag or 2 of fluids might buy you enough time to get them somewhere. why do you think medics always use it? Use of LR and blood expanders are actually two different things. Lactated Ringers is for fluid replacement. Heparin/Hextend is usually used for blood expansion, blood pressure management. Both are actually prescribed medications that are available primarily to auhorized medical personnel. There is some training involved in using these besides just sticking someone with an angiocath. Nothing wrong with being ready for something, but these require a little more support than most private citizens can usually muster routinely. Just my little opinion. |
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actually a bag or 2 of fluids might buy you enough time to get them somewhere. why do you think medics always use it? Use of LR and blood expanders are actually two different things. Lactated Ringers is for fluid replacement. Heparin/Hextend is usually used for blood expansion, blood pressure management. Both are actually prescribed medications that are available primarily to auhorized medical personnel. There is some training involved in using these besides just sticking someone with an angiocath. Nothing wrong with being ready for something, but these require a little more support than most private citizens can usually muster routinely. Just my little opinion. sure and i respect you opinion. i was just trying to see if they would make a good SHTF item. |
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actually a bag or 2 of fluids might buy you enough time to get them somewhere. why do you think medics always use it? Actually I've been a medic for 14 years and the primary reason I start an IV is not for fluid replacement or blood loss but for access for my medications, i.e morphine, fentanyl, zofran, D50, ativan, etc. I'd say that at least 90% of patients who get an IV is for that reason. |
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I can think of some examples where an IV would be useful. Maybe a flu epidemic which had serious stomach symptoms, if someone got really dehyrdated and could not take fluids by mouth somehow. Example, a very bad stomach flu, and a small child who had gotten seriously dehydrated. If there was no hospital or ambulance available, it would be good to have a last ditch way to get them some fluid until they were able to absorb it through their intenstines again.
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I can think of some examples where an IV would be useful. Maybe a flu epidemic which had serious stomach symptoms, if someone got really dehyrdated and could not take fluids by mouth somehow. Example, a very bad stomach flu, and a small child who had gotten seriously dehydrated. If there was no hospital or ambulance available, it would be good to have a last ditch way to get them some fluid until they were able to absorb it through their intenstines again. Just don't do it. Really. You can cause more damage than you know. Follow the oral hydration fluid, give Pepto Bismol first for a hour, repeat the PB, then start oral fluids a oz at a time. If you aren't trained in IV therapy, don't think you can just stick a needle in and give them fluid. It's not that easy. RN for 30 years ER, ICU, Anesthesia. WJ |
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the whole reason im asking is the wifie is a nurse and i think it would be a handy SHTF item to have. i dont plan on setting up a hospitol just want a few of these around just in case something happens. So, think this through with me: what do you plan on being able to fix with a few liters of NS? If they're bad enough that they need an IV, you need to call an ambulance. Anything you do is gonna screw them up. If there is no ambulance to call, giving them a few liters of fluid isn't going to do anything but prolong their suffering. I can think of a use....... for a much loved pet.  My wife is a vet tech and routinely administers IV's. It is hard to verbally convince a dog to drink their oral re-hydration salts. Keeping an animal hydrated until they can heal on their own is sometimes most of the battle to keep them alive. I only add this because we keep IV supplies for our dogs and I am not advocating use on people.
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Quoted:I was just trying to see if they would make a good SHTF item.
They would make a great emergency item if you know how to use them. Quoted:
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Ahhh, I do love a litter of fluid when I am hung over. Makes the world a lot more plesant. lol. so ive heard.. I'd stick my drunk room-mate when I was single for practice. He thought he was Superman with tequila for a while... then I quit baby-sitting his ass. |
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IV solution will often yellow when it gets really old. I'd be hesitant to use it more than a month or so past the expiration date in a true emergency. There are some studies indicating that there is a lot of "wiggle room" between the expiration date of a drug and the actual time that it is no longer suitable for use. Of course, that's quite a bet to make. You might not know that there is something "bad" about the fluid (plastic breaking down, bacterial growth, whatever).
As for the IV therapy, if you're not trained to do it, don't. It's easy to kill somebody with improper use of IV fluids. You should be an advanced EMT, paramedic, nurse, or something before doing it. Even then, I know a lot of RNs who haven't ever really started or maintained lines. Experience is very important here––please be careful. |
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If you have to ask, chances are you don't need to be stocking them. simple question to answer. next time you have a gun question maybe that will be my answer to you. It's a simple answer. I'll restate it in more diplomatic terms if that helps: If one has such limited exposure to the fluids used for IV therapy as to unaware that there is an expiration date printed on every bag, one probably does not possess enough information or knowledge to safely use or store such a product. As stated earlier in the thread improper use of IV medications including fluids can cause more harm than good even with the assumption of a good site with no infiltration issues. Further problems can be created by a compromised IV site that lets fluid leak out of the vascular space into places it was not meant to be introduced. |
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If you're talking serious blood loss/last ditch, there are allot of things you could do. Just remember that unless you're giving blood to a person with blood loss, it is a very temporary fix. IV fluid will get filtered by the kidneys and pissed out! How fast depends on the size of the person and their renal function. If you just want to stop hypovolemic shock temporarily that's cool. But the clock is tickin'.
As stated before, check color, plastic integrity, and your line/needle/cath. A foreign body embolism is a serious threat to an already compromised person. Some of our combat packs were pretty beat up by the time we needed them. We use to say: "inspect all med supplies for cracks, dents, bulges, or sh*t"! LOL! I once found a dead weevil in an IV line still in the wrapper!! NO crap! In a SHTF situation, oral rehydration salts can be administered rectally as well. Might want to keep an enema bag or 3 around for that. You can make your own, but that is MacGyver stuff, and your butt ends up smelling like old garden hose! |
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There is no simple answer. The expiration date is the "under any allowable storage conditions" plus a tolerance, the product shall 100% of the time be 90% effective. And you must prove it. So Baxter et al have no reason to prove it is good for 10 years. The expiration date give hospitals a means to rotate their stock. Groups that stockpile large ammounts of the products (DOD warehouses/ Installation support packages/regional medical centers and CDC Strategic National Stockpile/Chempack) will have their own Service Life Exension Program (SLEP) to verify that the products continue to be effective.
So there is no answer to you question. Having said that, in a SHTF situation, if I'm hanging bags in the house, I wouldn;t worry about the expiration date on saline fluids. The stuff that we have good answers for tend to have short shelflives, with an identifiable mode of experation. Whole blood products are a good example. |
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Sounds like his wife is an RN. She should know when and when not to use IV fluids.
As said before hypovolemic shock d/t severe trauma/bloodloss will also often (not allways) require a blood transfusion and some surgical intervention (obviosly stopping further blood loss if possible should go w/out saying). LR or NS can buy you some time but there are other considerations that must be taken into account (meds, O2 administration, etc). More than can be responsibly discussed in this forum. I would see having fluids avail. as a bonus but they must be used by somone who knows what they are doing at either an RN, EMT, Paramedic, MD skill level. Maybe in cases of extreme dehydration it may come in handy. Dunno really depends on all of the above. Anaphylaxis or severe burn victims may be another reason to administer IV fluids but then again there is more to pt Tx than just fluid volume replacement. I have considered the same myself but even as a health professional I would be very cautious and stick to the ABC's and get the pt to a hospital or EMT/paramedics asap. Note this is not to be considered medical advice just some input to the post (my disclaimer). As far as the OP original Q it really depends on how the bag has been stored. I personally do not feel the expiration date is allways set in stone. Look at it as a best used by date but don't take it to the extreme. Discuss this with your wife and see what she is comfortable with regarding her assessment and skill level. #1 suggestion body armor, cover and concealment. 
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| People always pile on the IV threads. Bottom line is that there are hundreds of thousands of people trained to to administer IV fluids. There IS a shortage of medical supplies in the system and I''d be impressed if hospitals had a months worth of supplies stored. There are more experts than supplies, So I think its prudent to store them. |