Posted: 9/19/2013 10:32:00 AM EDT
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as many have I purchased chlorine, (what ever grade/percentage, I can't remember),,and placed it in storage for future use in a SHTF scenario.
This morning I decided to use some to spray the North side of the house as I have some mold growing there and its far cheaper than "deck wash" well,, the case is stored high and dry on thetop shelf of the barn with the dog, goat, and catfish feed... upon opening the case I find the plastic bags it came in are dry and crumbling, the sheets with printed info on how to mix, browned and crumbling to dust upon contact. the barn is reasonably tight, but, its a barn..not my house so it is not tempature controlled(I tried to store it inside, that lasted about an hour)moved it to the guest cabin attic and it stunk up the whole place there as well so, it went to the barn I have saved a 1/2 dozen or so 1/2 gal glass pickle jars and will be transferring the chlorine into them first of next week and double sealing the lid with wax paper and foil hopefully this'll be a better solution.. I believe the gas that escapes from the chlorine has corrupted the plastic bag as it was only intended to last a year or so at the most for your pool usage..not a 10lb box stored in the pool house for 3 years.. if you've stored chlorine,,check your stores. |
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chlorine does not come in a bag. it is a greenish gas at normal pressures and temperatures.
you might have had some kind of chlorine containing compound such as calcium hypochlorite (AKA - pool shock). if it got damp, I can believe the problems you observed. Keep it dry and it will last a long time. Maybe outlast all of us. |
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Quoted: I have saved a 1/2 dozen or so 1/2 gal glass pickle jars and will be transferring the chlorine into them first of next week and double sealing the lid with wax paper and foil hopefully this'll be a better solution.. 1. the chlorine will permeate the wax paper, then it will rust/eat the lids up 2. the glass "could" explode. you need a reagent bottle if you really want to store it. |
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it wont store well its unstable, it has a shelf life. But you can make your own chlorine from regular old salt and electrolysis. http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-12-Volt-Chlorine-Producing-Unit-for-Water-Puri/ You could also store other things such as iodine, which might last longer depending on form. |
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Chef, go to your local pool supply house. Ask if they have an empty chlorine tablet or powder bucket. They are resistant to chlorine and will last for a number of years. The tops have seals and a latch to secure it and they usually have a variety of sizes. Even better, do you have a friend or neighbor that has a pool? They may have an empty one for you. |
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Quoted:
1. the chlorine will permeate the wax paper, then it will rust/eat the lids up 2. the glass "could" explode. you need a reagent bottle if you really want to store it. Quoted:
Quoted:
I have saved a 1/2 dozen or so 1/2 gal glass pickle jars and will be transferring the chlorine into them first of next week and double sealing the lid with wax paper and foil hopefully this'll be a better solution.. 1. the chlorine will permeate the wax paper, then it will rust/eat the lids up 2. the glass "could" explode. you need a reagent bottle if you really want to store it. Pool shock in a mason jar is no-go??? |
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You are dealing with dangerous chemicals. I am in no position to assess what you are storing and how. I will tell you that you can use this website:
http://cameochemicals.noaa.gov/ You can look up chemicals using various names, listings, ID numbers, and then compare the reactivity. This is a useful tool for the hazmat team, and may save you from making a big mistake in the near future. CAS Number ...........UN/NA Number.............DOT Hazard Label .........CHRIS Code 14866-68-3 ................1461..............................Oxidizer ...........................none NFPA 704 data unavailable General Description Chlorate, inorganic, n.o.s. is a white crystalline. It is soluble in water. The material itself is noncombustible, but it can form a very flammable mixture with combustible materials, and this mixture may be explosive if the combustible material is very finely divided. The mixture can be ignited by friction. Contact with strong sulfuric acid can cause fires or explosions. When mixed with ammonium salts, spontaneous decomposition and ignition may result. Prolonged exposure of the material to heat or fire can result in an explosion. Reactivity Alerts Explosive Strong Oxidizing Agent Air & Water Reactions They are soluble in water. Fire Hazard Excerpt from GUIDE 140 [Oxidizers]: These substances will accelerate burning when involved in a fire. Some may decompose explosively when heated or involved in a fire. May explode from heat or contamination. Some will react explosively with hydrocarbons (fuels). May ignite combustibles (wood, paper, oil, clothing, etc.). Containers may explode when heated. Runoff may create fire or explosion hazard. (ERG, 2012) Health Hazard Excerpt from GUIDE 140 [Oxidizers]: Inhalation, ingestion or contact (skin, eyes) with vapors or substance may cause severe injury, burns or death. Fire may produce irritating, corrosive and/or toxic gases. Runoff from fire control or dilution water may cause pollution. (ERG, 2012) Reactivity Profile Metal chlorates are oxidants in the presence of strong acid; liberates explosive chlorine dioxide gas; liberates chlorine dioxide and carbon dioxide by heating a moist metal chlorate and a dibasic organic acid; mixtures of perchlorates with sulfur or phosphorus are explosives [Bretherick 1979 p. 100]; mixtures of the chlorate with ammonium salts, powdered metals, silicon, sulfur, or sulfides are readily ignited and potentially explosive [Bretherick 1979 p. 806]. A combination of finely divided aluminum with finely divided bromates (also chlorates and iodates) of barium, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, or zinc can explode by heat, percussion, or friction [Mellor 2:310 1946-47]. Belongs to the Following Reactive Group(s) •Oxidizing Agents Potentially Incompatible Absorbents Use caution: Liquids with this reactive group classification have been known to react with the absorbents listed below. More info about absorbents, including situations to watch out for... •Cellulose-Based Absorbents •Expanded Polymeric Absorbents |
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Quoted:
You are dealing with dangerous chemicals. I am in no position to assess what you are storing and how. I will tell you that you can use this website: http://cameochemicals.noaa.gov/ You can look up chemicals using various names, listings, ID numbers, and then compare the reactivity. This is a useful tool for the hazmat team, and may save you from making a big mistake in the near future. CAS Number ...........UN/NA Number.............DOT Hazard Label .........CHRIS Code 14866-68-3 ................1461..............................Oxidizer ...........................none NFPA 704 data unavailable General Description Chlorate, inorganic, n.o.s. is a white crystalline. It is soluble in water. The material itself is noncombustible, but it can form a very flammable mixture with combustible materials, and this mixture may be explosive if the combustible material is very finely divided. The mixture can be ignited by friction. Contact with strong sulfuric acid can cause fires or explosions. When mixed with ammonium salts, spontaneous decomposition and ignition may result. Prolonged exposure of the material to heat or fire can result in an explosion. Reactivity Alerts Explosive Strong Oxidizing Agent Air & Water Reactions They are soluble in water. Fire Hazard Excerpt from GUIDE 140 [Oxidizers]: These substances will accelerate burning when involved in a fire. Some may decompose explosively when heated or involved in a fire. May explode from heat or contamination. Some will react explosively with hydrocarbons (fuels). May ignite combustibles (wood, paper, oil, clothing, etc.). Containers may explode when heated. Runoff may create fire or explosion hazard. (ERG, 2012) Health Hazard Excerpt from GUIDE 140 [Oxidizers]: Inhalation, ingestion or contact (skin, eyes) with vapors or substance may cause severe injury, burns or death. Fire may produce irritating, corrosive and/or toxic gases. Runoff from fire control or dilution water may cause pollution. (ERG, 2012) Reactivity Profile Metal chlorates are oxidants in the presence of strong acid; liberates explosive chlorine dioxide gas; liberates chlorine dioxide and carbon dioxide by heating a moist metal chlorate and a dibasic organic acid; mixtures of perchlorates with sulfur or phosphorus are explosives [Bretherick 1979 p. 100]; mixtures of the chlorate with ammonium salts, powdered metals, silicon, sulfur, or sulfides are readily ignited and potentially explosive [Bretherick 1979 p. 806]. A combination of finely divided aluminum with finely divided bromates (also chlorates and iodates) of barium, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, or zinc can explode by heat, percussion, or friction [Mellor 2:310 1946-47]. Belongs to the Following Reactive Group(s) •Oxidizing Agents Potentially Incompatible Absorbents Use caution: Liquids with this reactive group classification have been known to react with the absorbents listed below. More info about absorbents, including situations to watch out for... •Cellulose-Based Absorbents •Expanded Polymeric Absorbents you know I'm just a cook; right? 
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Chef, go to your local pool supply house. Ask if they have an empty chlorine tablet or powder bucket. They are resistant to chlorine and will last for a number of years. The tops have seals and a latch to secure it and they usually have a variety of sizes. Even better, do you have a friend or neighbor that has a pool? They may have an empty one for you. thank you. a nice simple polite answer with a reasonable (CHEAP) suggestion.. |
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Quoted:
1. the chlorine will permeate the wax paper, then it will rust/eat the lids up 2. the glass "could" explode. you need a reagent bottle if you really want to store it. Quoted:
Quoted:
I have saved a 1/2 dozen or so 1/2 gal glass pickle jars and will be transferring the chlorine into them first of next week and double sealing the lid with wax paper and foil hopefully this'll be a better solution.. 1. the chlorine will permeate the wax paper, then it will rust/eat the lids up 2. the glass "could" explode. you need a reagent bottle if you really want to store it. Thank you.. |
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Quoted:
chlorine does not come in a bag. it is a greenish gas at normal pressures and temperatures. you might have had some kind of chlorine containing compound such as calcium hypochlorite (AKA - pool shock). if it got damp, I can believe the problems you observed. Keep it dry and it will last a long time. Maybe outlast all of us. I know, I'm just a dumbshit, thanks for pointing that out.. 
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Chef, we had a thread on this subject just a few weeks ago. I got tired of them outgassing. Tried vacuum sealing them. Nothing works well. In the spring, I finally threw them into a 5 gallon bucket and put on a Gamma-Seal top.
Now, I'm 'fraid to try to open it. LOL 
I'll let you know how it goes... |
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Quoted:
Chef, go to your local pool supply house. Ask if they have an empty chlorine tablet or powder bucket. They are resistant to chlorine and will last for a number of years. The tops have seals and a latch to secure it and they usually have a variety of sizes. Even better, do you have a friend or neighbor that has a pool? They may have an empty one for you. OP - if you are in the North Dallas area (and I think you are, because I think we've met for an EE transaction or two in the past), I have a few chlorine buckets and could let you have one. They are made to store chlorine in and wont let moisture in, and wont vent, as a lot of other containers do. Let me know if you need one. I'm in West Plano area. |
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Do NOT store liquid bleach. It breaks down to useless salts in a rather short time. There are powder variants (like pool shock) that can be used to make a massive amount of 'bleach' in a concentration that works for sanitation or water purification.
Bleach, as found in the common 1 gallon jugs, is diluted sodium hypochlorite. Pool shock is calcium hypochlorite. Either one works as it has chlorine in it, etc. both are a recommended chemical to purify water. I compiled some extensive notes on it a while back. I will try to update my post with more specific information when I can. I had put the application info into Wikipedia on water treatment as prescribed by WHO (iirc, it was one of those international alphabet soup organizations) that was a practical guide on how to make water as drinkable as you could get with bleach, but some anal probe deleted it all and turned the page into a thesis on how a water treatment plant operates. Now it sounds like a just like a vague and condescending policy paper written by a UN author. It's looks just like what I had found before..... http://www.newjerusalem.com/PureWater.htm EDIT2: CDC is who was publishing the data for use as practical, real world (and 3rd world) application. |
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The times it Didn't end badly, what did you do differently? Quoted:
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For a long time we used to keep chlorine, STB, and other chemicals stored at work for decontamination or other aspects of CBRNE response. It ended up badly almost every time. The times it Didn't end badly, what did you do differently? We didn't wait as long to open the containers before getting rid of them. Most of the time the stuff ended up eating through whatever it was stored in. Decontaminants are one of those things that if we need them we really need them, but long -term storage has never worked out well. Current SOP is to just store bleach in containers and rotate stock annually. |
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Quoted:
Chef, we had a thread on this subject just a few weeks ago. I got tired of them outgassing. Tried vacuum sealing them. Nothing works well. In the spring, I finally threw them into a 5 gallon bucket and put on a Gamma-Seal top. Now, I'm 'fraid to try to open it. LOL
I'll let you know how it goes... Update on the 5-gal buckets of pool-shok (6 bags) with gamma seal tops... Opened it up, its been about 4 months since I put the Pool-Shok bags in them. The bags were themselves about 2 years old. There was no appreciable pressure built up in the bucket (this surprised me), and the gamma seal top was easy to twist off. Everything looked fine inside, no noticeable degradation of the plastic walls of the food grade bucket. The metal pail-type handle was in no way corroded, which verified my impression that no air/chlorine was leaking from the bucket when it was closed for those months. WARNING... the air that escaped from the bucket was extremely condensed chlorine smell. DO NOT allow yourself to breathe this. It was bad. Do it outside and away from anything. Period. Walk away and come back to it when it has been diluted with air. I am not sure how the bucket will react to the gas over the long haul. The top seemed to fare well. I will seal this back up, and see where it goes. Keeping it in the garage, as I don't have out buildings here. ETA: My buddy says he keeps his chlorine tabs for his pool in a plastic bucket that he keeps under his deck. Some of the tabs are several years old. They are not individually wrapped. He says they are just fine... |
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Just store bleach its safer and you can purify water with it also to much chorine will make you sterile lol The shelf life of bleach is VERY short, it loses full effectiveness within 6 months of manufacture. So a person prepping for a long term event in the future would need an alternative. |
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How long is powdered pool shock good for? Stored in a plastic bucket in it's original bag. I'm not sure if the OEM plastic bucket is the best for long term storage... Stored in a heavy [not necessarily large] plastic container with a lid that has a positive sealed closure, and a seal that withstands the strongly corrosive effects of the bleach... Longer than me and you likely have on this planet combined, I'd guess. |