Posted: 8/15/2015 3:51:30 PM EDT
| Not getting any responses in other forum so thought I would post here. Anyone reloading these is there 308 with varget or 4064? Curious what your loading these up to. Am reloading these for a Savage 10T (1:10 twist, 24 in barrel). Seems I am pushing it around 43.5 but trying different brass to see if there is any difference. Would appreciate any info. Thanks |
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I haven't tried Berger match bullets yet. I just worked a load for my bench 24" 1:10 .308 using 175gr SMK, IMR 4064 @42.7gr in Lake City LR brass (pretty sure the capacity is close to my lapua brass as well. My max coal measure 2.866" and I loaded to ~2.84" which still fits in an AiCS magazine.
To do load dev, I started with quickload data for Max charge and then stepped down 10%. I loaded 20 rounds at min charge for breakin. Then I built an OCW ladder with 2 bullets per charge weight in 0.5gr increments. I shot the OCW string up and down @300 yards then used OnTarget to measure vertical offset from point of aim for each bullet. This gave me a grain window where my sweet spot was. Then I went back and loaded another ladder with multiple 3-shot groups for the 2.0 grain window still in 0.5gr intervals. Then I measured shot group sizes and vertical offset, and extrapolated the sweet spot to be in the middle of 42.5gr and 43.0gr. I still need to do some COAL tuning / brass culling but that load is good enough as it stands. Next up for me are some lighter 155GR, as I will be shooting mostly inside 300 yards they're reported to do well in my barrel config. I've been dragging my feet as I want to do a ton of brass prep. |
| Thanks for the info. You should get some commercial brass as you can get a bit more powder in it safely. Don't use SSA brass. Junk IMHO. Going back out with hornady brass and 43.1-43.5 on both Varget and 4064 to see if I still pop primers as I did with SSA brass. Am close to figuring which load. Last time out seemed to point to 43.3 grains. Think I will pick up some SMK to try too. Thanks again. BTW, did you chrono your loads? |
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There is an old saying: If 4064 does not work in your .308, you're doing something wrong. Varget will also work well, the burn rate of both being very close. The supposed difference is that Varget has lower sensitivity to temperature changes. I do not know if that is true. I used to shoot 175s, but have switched to Berger 185s. Nobody wins (F-T/R) matches shooting 175s any more. I use 43.7g Varget with a 185 loaded long in my AIAE MK3 24", and can keep most of them in the 10-ring (OK, 9-ring) at 1000. Of course, YMMV. |
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1 in 12 twist barrel. ETA: I have had some 8# jugs of Varget on backorder for a long time. I am thinking about switching to Hodgden's new powder called 4166. It has a burn rate close to 4064 and Varget, and supposedly has some fancy anti-fouling additive. More importantly, it is readily available. |
| My savage is a 1:10 twist so thing those 185's would not do very well. Might give Hornady 178's a try. I got lucky when I found a guy getting out of reloading and sold me 5 one lb jugs at 20 bucks a piece. 4166 isn't to bad. Usually do a work up along side 4064 and varget if I think I have time at the range to shoot them off. If and when I do rebarrel (if I don't get the RPR), will get a 1:11.5 twist or 1:12. When the rush for RPR's come down, might contact Ruger to see if they would let me do a special order and order a rifle without the barrel. They already told me no on a longer barrel 308 when I asked them. |
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I tried the 155 Lapua Scenars and didn't have much luck with them at all. My observation was that the Scenars like to jump to the rifling, they didn't like being close to the lands and their grouping confirmed that in my rifle. I switched to 155.5 Berger Full Bore Match bullets. The Bergers perform quite well out to 1K, the B.C. is .464, they do well in wind. They also like being close to the rifling. The load I'm using is: 46.7 gr. Vihavuori N-150, Coal is 2.850 MV is 2814 at sea level chronographed with an Oehler 35P on an 8' beam 20' from the muzzle I'm getting some good accuracy with Berger 185's and Varget but I haven't had the opportunity shoot them for distance yet. My rifle is 1:10 26" barreled Sako TRG 22. ETA corrected on the grain. |
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To get match benefit of the 155 gr bullets, they need to have a velocity over 2900 fps.
As with any bullet you need to try them for yourself. The Berger 185gr Juggernaut is intended for 1000 yd shoot and to remain stable while they go transonic. The OP should consider shooting F Class TR Class although the season is done at Elk River it would have been a place to work on shooting Long Range and seen what bullets work. |
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Quoted: Please post your results of those 185's and chrono too if you can. Am curious if the 185 gr bullet is to heavy for 1:10 twist. I'm pretty sure popnfresh uses 185s through a 1:10. Berger says it's good: http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/ Some of the best .30 caliber reading online: http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/p/articles-index.html |
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Quoted:
Please post your results of those 185's and chrono too if you can. Am curious if the 185 gr bullet is to heavy for 1:10 twist. My 1:10 has handled up to 208gr AMAX and those were even subs. The 10 twist was specifically designed for the heavier/longer bullets over the more traditional 1:12 rate. |
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Quoted:
I tried the 155 Lapua Scenars and didn't have much luck with them at all. My observation was that the Scenars like to jump to the rifling, they didn't like being close to the lands and their grouping confirmed that in my rifle. I have great luck with 155 Scenars, typically allowing my M40 to shoot 0.3" 5-shot groups at 100 yards. In my gun, the Scenars like two jump ranges:: 0.015 to 0.035 and 0.075 to 0.125 and disliked the range in the middle. |
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Quoted:
175 Berger OTM Fed 210 Match WW brass or FC Military Brass IMR 4064 @ 41.7 2.80" COAL Light Crimp with Lee Factory Crimp Die SCAR 17 What kind of velocity are you getting with this load? I've got some 185s I'll be messing with soon and I'm debating on sticking with 2.800" OAL or getting outside of mag length and hunting for a little more accuracy as well as velocity with the increased case capacity. |
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Quoted:
175 Berger OTM Fed 210 Match WW brass or FC Military Brass IMR 4064 @ 41.7 2.80" COAL Light Crimp with Lee Factory Crimp Die SCAR 17 Seeing any damage to the brass like ejector marks shooting this load? I know my bolt gun can use more powder but gas guns are different. Am at 43.5 with Varget but thinking will back them down a bit. According to my ballistics program, bullet is still flying above 1300 @1000 yards. Primers are almost flat. |
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Bearcat24,
Your 1-10 twist Savage will work just fine with our 185 grain Juggernauts. H4985 , IMR4064, VARGET. Are good powders to try. H4895 - START- 36.5 grains, max - 40.5 grains. Approximate velocities are 2343 to 2570 . Approximate fill ratio is 97% IMR 4064 - START- 37.0 , MAX - 41.0 . Approximate velocities are 2307 to 2532 fps - Approximate fill ratio is 103% ( compressed) VARGET - START - 37.5 , MAX - 41.6 . Approximate velocities are 2306 to 2535 fps - Approximate fill ratio is 102% ( compressed) ALL OF THERE LOADS ARE BASED ON MAGAZINE LENGTH LOADED AMMUNITION ! Hope this helps! Take care! Phil Hoham Berger Bullet Tech |
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Bearcat,
If your primers are "almost flat" and the round is still running 1300 fps at the target at 1000 yards you should be ok if your load was tested in hot weather and this was the case. If your primers are showing a "squared off" edge instead of a rounded edge . You are really close to your maximum load IF you are not showing ejector marks too! If you are. Drop back a touch on the powder. Take care, Phil Hoham Berger Bullet TECH. |
| Appreciate the info barefooter. They are kind of squared off so planning on dropping down to 43.3. Will be doing one more test in different brass to make sure though. Thought about trying the 185's but after buying 300 175's and seeing a bit of a swing when I weighed all of them, probably going to a different brand. I emailed berger with my findings but since I didn't buy them from a store, I was basically shit out of luck. |
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Quoted:
Bearcat24, Your 1-10 twist Savage will work just fine with our 185 grain Juggernauts. H4985 , IMR4064, VARGET. Are good powders to try. H4895 - START- 36.5 grains, max - 40.5 grains. Approximate velocities are 2343 to 2570 . Approximate fill ratio is 97% IMR 4064 - START- 37.0 , MAX - 41.0 . Approximate velocities are 2307 to 2532 fps - Approximate fill ratio is 103% ( compressed) VARGET - START - 37.5 , MAX - 41.6 . Approximate velocities are 2306 to 2535 fps - Approximate fill ratio is 102% ( compressed) ALL OF THERE LOADS ARE BASED ON MAGAZINE LENGTH LOADED AMMUNITION ! Hope this helps! Take care! Phil Hoham Berger Bullet Tech Phil Are these charge weights with commercial or mil brass? Thanks Eric |
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Quoted:
Appreciate the info barefooter. They are kind of squared off so planning on dropping down to 43.3. Will be doing one more test in different brass to make sure though. Thought about trying the 185's but after buying 300 175's and seeing a bit of a swing when I weighed all of them, probably going to a different brand. I emailed berger with my findings but since I didn't buy them from a store, I was basically shit out of luck. What sort of a swing are you talking about? What did you use to weigh them? |
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Quoted:
What sort of a swing are you talking about? What did you use to weigh them? Quoted:
Quoted:
Appreciate the info barefooter. They are kind of squared off so planning on dropping down to 43.3. Will be doing one more test in different brass to make sure though. Thought about trying the 185's but after buying 300 175's and seeing a bit of a swing when I weighed all of them, probably going to a different brand. I emailed berger with my findings but since I didn't buy them from a store, I was basically shit out of luck. What sort of a swing are you talking about? What did you use to weigh them? Gempro 250. 173.8 to 175.1. Was emailing with Ryan back and forth. Got them from a seller in the EE reloading section. |
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Quoted:
Did you weight them all just once? Or go through the batch a couple times/ Ive had weight swings like that in 155 Sierra Palma bullets in an earlier life. Didn't really make a difference on the target. I weighed all of them after coming back from the range. Shot 25 (275 left) and noticed some drifting a little so decided to weigh the rest. I have them separated now so could go back and see if they are like before. The gempro is accurate but doesnt hurt to check again. I moved up to Hornady 178 A-Max and Match to try. Someone else advised me to go even higher so am considering that. Have a batch made up for when I can hit the range again. I maxed out on 43.5 gr varget with good primers in Lapua brass so my next batch will bring me up to 40 gr with .1 difference and see how far I can go before the primers tell me to back off or I see brass showing signs. |
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I am using the Berger 175 grain long range bullets. So far I've only shot them out of my Rem SPS with the 1-12 twist. They work very good at 800 yards.
I just got a Savage FCP with 1-10 twist and loaded some up this evening. I'll be on the range in the morning trying them out. 175 grain Berger 43 grain IMR 4064 Lapua brass, full length sized and flash hole cleaned up Fed 210 primers No crimp (neck tension in the Lapua brass is tight!) |
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Quoted:
I am using the Berger 175 grain long range bullets. So far I've only shot them out of my Rem SPS with the 1-12 twist. They work very good at 800 yards. I just got a Savage FCP with 1-10 twist and loaded some up this evening. I'll be on the range in the morning trying them out. 175 grain Berger 43 grain IMR 4064 Lapua brass, full length sized and flash hole cleaned up Fed 210 primers No crimp (neck tension in the Lapua brass is tight!) Post your results when your done. I worked up 4064 along side of varget and found varget did a little better but it was close. |
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My 185 Berger and Dietlin Bullets load is 40.0 grs of varget, Winchester brass, BR2 or Tula primers. I shoot a 28" Obermeyer barreled trued Remington. In F-Class midrange matches I have cleaned 500 yrd line 200-10x. This combination is a lot more forgiving and accurate than I am.
Its a mild load and doesn't punish the shoulder, brass or rifle. Po-Po |
| Have been paper punching with 178 A-Max and match lately with good results with the A-Max. Match was poor. going one more time the summer with the match closer to the lands to see if I can tighten it up. Might try heavier next year. With Hornady coming out with the newer tips, might give those a try. Hoping to try a match close to home to get my feet wet in competition shooting. This savage is impressing the hell out of me so far. |
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I have not tried any of the Hornady bullets yet but I have heard that unexplained flyers have occurred with enough frequency that none of the big names use them in F-Class matches. Now that being said I have two boxes of 208 bthp that I am going to work up for those windy match venues if I can get them to shoot straight.
Oh that 1-10 twist is good for heavier bullets BUT has been known to shoot 155's good too. |
| Been seeing that too on the 155's. Would think they would suck bucking the wind. 208 is a monster bullet. Let me know how it performs. After getting burnt on berger bullets, not sure if I want to try them again. The 185 Juggernaut is supposed to be one hell of a long range bullet but hard to find. |
| Got out to the range today to re try the 178 grain match. Before OAL was 2.800. Today went great with OAL of 2.850. Forgot to take a pic. 3 within a 50 cent piece @100 yards. Next spring will try the heavier bullets. The 185 grain Juggernauts will be on my list to try. |
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It is courting danger to use the same loads in different headstamped brass.
Each weights differently. Loads worked up in WW brass would be bad news in FC or LC brass. The 308 is way different then swapping loads with 223 brass. There is no universal loading of different brands. Go look as Hodgdon web site which used WW brass for load work ups versus say the Sierra manual which used Federal brass for load work ups. |