Posted: 8/17/2015 11:42:04 AM EDT
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Way back when I was new to shooting (15 or so year ago) they were regarded as top of the line scopes just under the quality of NF, USO, S&B, etc. Now I hardly ever see them even mentioned, much less recommended next to Vortex and the better Bushnell's on the market.
What's changed? Has their quality diminished that much? Has the specs of desired specs changed the market and Leupold is behind the times? Or is it that Vortex and the like are just that much value for the money? |
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I think their stuff is still top notch, but their reluctance to move to mil reticle with mil turrets has been annoying and probably losing them sales. Do they not offer the M5 (or whatever their designation is for mil) turrets on most of their offerings or is that only on one or two? How does their glass compare to others in their price bracket? |
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They have a LOT of competition, but are still top notch. NF, S&B among others are pushing them hard.
They have replaced two older scopes for me under warranty, no questions asked, with current production models. Their custom shop will do just about anything for you. |
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Leopold is offering mil-dot reticle and turret options on their Mk 4, 6 and 8 scopes. The Mk 4s are priced in the same ball park as a comparable Nightforce scope. On the other hand, the Mk 6s and Mk 8s can get very spendy ($3K to $5K) and I think they've priced them out of most reasonable people's budgets. Some of their reticle options are a little over the top and strike me as being a bit gimmicky, so it's perhaps an issue of going too far.
Mk AR scopes have mil dot reticles, but a BDC turret, but they are priced in $500-$600 range. ----- In terms of optical quality the Leopold VX2 series are arguably Leopold's best bang for the buck and their finger adjustable turrets are nicely done, and the VX3s are still under a grand - but you can't get a stock VX2 or VX3 with an MOA or Mil-Dot reticle. That is costing them sales. Nightforce expanded their offerings in the other direction offering its SHV second focal plane reticle scopes with more or less standard hunting reticles as well as 20 MOA and 30 MOA reticles. In that regard, given that the target market is probably more likely to be inch and yard using hunters and shooters rather than military trained shooters schooled in meters, the MOA system makes more sense than the Mil-Dot system. In any event, very good optics, an MOA reticle option and decent turrets at under or not too far over $1000 makes them a very attractive alternative to a VX3 Leuopold and it's the direction I took when I looked for a new long range scope. |
| i was starting to become optimistic after all the hype about leupold returning to respectability, until i got to handle their high end offering at a match this spring, next to the new NF atacr FFP and a vortex gen 2. i wish them well, but let's not kid ourselves. leupold has a long way to go to catch up. |
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Leopold is offering mil-dot reticle and turret options on their Mk 4, 6 and 8 scopes. The Mk 4s are priced in the same ball park as a comparable Nightforce scope. On the other hand, the Mk 6s and Mk 8s can get very spendy ($3K to $5K) and I think they've priced them out of most reasonable people's budgets. Some of their reticle options are a little over the top and strike me as being a bit gimmicky, so it's perhaps an issue of going too far. Mk AR scopes have mil dot reticles, but a BDC turret, but they are priced in $500-$600 range. ----- In terms of optical quality the Leopold VX2 series are arguably Leopold's best bang for the buck and their finger adjustable turrets are nicely done, and the VX3s are still under a grand - but you can't get a stock VX2 or VX3 with an MOA or Mil-Dot reticle. That is costing them sales. Nightforce expanded their offerings in the other direction offering its SHV second focal plane reticle scopes with more or less standard hunting reticles as well as 20 MOA and 30 MOA reticles. In that regard, given that the target market is probably more likely to be inch and yard using hunters and shooters rather than military trained shooters schooled in meters, the MOA system makes more sense than the Mil-Dot system. In any event, very good optics, an MOA reticle option and decent turrets at under or not too far over $1000 makes them a very attractive alternative to a VX3 Leuopold and it's the direction I took when I looked for a new long range scope. Mark AR scopes are MRAD in both turrets and reticles, at least the 1.5-4x20mm Firedot SPR and the 3-9x40mm Firedot TMR. They are $400-450. It is the 30mm main tube, better glass VX-R Patrol Firedot scopes that are $550-600. They, too, are MRAD, both turrets and reticles. The Patrol scopes are great value at their price point. |
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Leupold and Vortex are all I have purchased in the last 4 years, Bushnell burned me on a lifetime warranty nothing like sending a scope in and pay for return shipping and have them say they found nothing wrong with it. scope will not hold zero on my 270 and a 10/22. Told them to just throw it away but they cant do that sent it back to me and I put it in the trash lost, a customer for life. Now leupold I have sent a scope back it would not move the windage, they did not care how it happened they fixed it and sent it back. I only paid to ship it to them.
snowman357 I have read horror stories of bushnell warranty on the net din't really believe most of them until now. snowman357 |
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I have quite a few Leupold scopes, including a couple Mark 4s
for 99% of most peoples applications the old school Mark 4 will suit them fine Problem is the Mark 4 prices have crept up , and their feature set doesn't come close to reflecting the price they want for them now Perfect example is the std M5 ( mrad ) turret. 5 mil per rev with no zero stop. No idea why someone would buy a mil mil scope nowadays with that turret ( the M5A2 is a step in right direction ) S&B PMII DT ( one of my favorite ) the Steiners , Kahles etc all have between 13 and 14 MRAD on double turn . Most applications still on first turn and very obvious you are on 2nd turn I have a NSX that I managed ( despite zero stop ) to loose track of # of turns in the excitement of match . You can't appreciate how precise and fine the clicks are of these S&B etc until you get behind one . The fine resolution clicks and 2 turn only is a much better system The Mark 4 M1 turrets are downright mushy Their M3 turret...1MOA elevation adjustments just so you can get everything on one turn. Totally don't get that when you can have single turn S&B or USO EREK knob that is vastly superior Love it or hate it, features like the MTC turrets of the S&B , the ultra short models etc are all features that you don't get with the Mark 4. I have not spent much time behind Mark6 , but for the $$ they want, I can get what I am familiar with ...the S&B PMIIs Bottom line, I don't think it has anything do do with quality of the Leupold, its just they have been riding the wave of their great reputation on the tactical line ( especially the original fixed power Mark 4s ) when for better part of 10 years , there has been lots of new competition ( Kahles , Stieners , the new Nighforces, Vortex Razor ) |
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Leupold has not stacked up to their competition until recently.
They rode the .mil/.gov success wave from 2000 to 2012 where they suddenly realized people were buying vortex optics with twice the clarity and features for half the bill. They have since been jumping through their assess to get new stuff out but the high prices commanded put their nicer gear against top companies that people seem to like better (USO, NF, etc) I stick to the MK4s because A. I like having all my glass be the same so theres nothing to relearn. and B. military discount make it worthwhile. I have thought long and hard about selling all of them to replace with Vortex scopes though. |
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Leupold has not stacked up to their competition until recently. They rode the .mil/.gov success wave from 2000 to 2012 where they suddenly realized people were buying vortex optics with twice the clarity and features for half the bill. They have since been jumping through their assess to get new stuff out but the high prices commanded put their nicer gear against top companies that people seem to like better (USO, NF, etc) I stick to the MK4s because A. I like having all my glass be the same so theres nothing to relearn. and B. military discount make it worthwhile. I have thought long and hard about selling all of them to replace with Vortex scopes though. only ones sticking with leopold now a days are old timers like my father in law who give it the ole ' i wont buy it unless it was made in America ' speech. i truly believe vortex is going to own the scope market in the next 10 years, unless they realize what they have going and start raising prices |
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Their low and mid range offerings seem great. I used a mark 4 recently and wasn't impressed with anything about it. even those can be replaced with a vortex with more features and better glass for the same price. a vx3 cds is more expensive than a vortex pst FFP |
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In my school, I see more Mk4's fail than all other brands put together. Some of the issues I have seen in multiple Mk4 scopes are:
-Failure to return to zero -Failure to hold zero -Adjustments that are not anywhere close to being what they are supposed to be. For example, in the worst case I ran a "box drill" with a Mk4 with .25MOA turrets. Ran the turrets a supposed 4MOA per side. The resultant "box" measured a solid 8" per side. No, I did not count the "clicks" wrong and no it wasn't .5MOA adjustments. I verified, re-verified and shot a second box drill with the same results. On Day 2 of the class, the scope suddenly started adjusting at .25MOA like it was supposed to. Later that same day, .5MOA again. -Lenses that "de-laminated". 2 lenses that were glued together come apart. Funkiest thing I have ever seen when looking through a scope. It was like looking through a glass orange peel. This I have only seen in 1 Mk4.....so far. -Cannot get the parallax set I have seen issues with the Mk6 and Mk8 scopes as well. For that kinda money, they should be getting things done right. I would sincerely like to see Leupold put out a solid, American-made tactical optic. I really would. I have an old (over 20 years old) Vari-X III 2.5-8x36mm. It was a scratched up, used scope when I bought it right after I got out of the Corps. It has been mounted on my primary deer rifle, a tuned up but fairly stock Remington 788 .308, for 20 years now. For the past 17 years, it has held perfect zero. Every deer season when I go to check zero, it has been dead on.....for 17 years straight. I haven't taken the turret caps off in 17 years. That is a rugged, reliable optic. If I saw that same level of reliability out of the Mk4, Mk6 or Mk8 optics, I'd own a safe full of them. I owned an old Mk4 M3 10x. Solid scope, never had an issue with it. My old SWAT Team Mk4 6.5-20x I never had an issue with. With that said, I see too many bad ones to trust the Leupold Tactical line of scopes at all. |
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only ones sticking with leopold now a days are old timers like my father in law who give it the ole ' i wont buy it unless it was made in America ' speech. i truly believe vortex is going to own the scope market in the next 10 years, unless they realize what they have going and start raising prices Quoted:
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Leupold has not stacked up to their competition until recently. They rode the .mil/.gov success wave from 2000 to 2012 where they suddenly realized people were buying vortex optics with twice the clarity and features for half the bill. They have since been jumping through their assess to get new stuff out but the high prices commanded put their nicer gear against top companies that people seem to like better (USO, NF, etc) I stick to the MK4s because A. I like having all my glass be the same so theres nothing to relearn. and B. military discount make it worthwhile. I have thought long and hard about selling all of them to replace with Vortex scopes though. only ones sticking with leopold now a days are old timers like my father in law who give it the ole ' i wont buy it unless it was made in America ' speech. i truly believe vortex is going to own the scope market in the next 10 years, unless they realize what they have going and start raising prices I guess you don't do much competitive shooting. Leupold appears on rifles at the top of the posted lists more frequently than Vortex. I have nothing against Vortex, please understand. Leupold's Competition scopes virtually dominate benchrest. Their VX-6 scopes are doing very well in 3G. |
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even those can be replaced with a vortex with more features and better glass for the same price. a vx3 cds is more expensive than a vortex pst FFP Quoted:
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Their low and mid range offerings seem great. I used a mark 4 recently and wasn't impressed with anything about it. even those can be replaced with a vortex with more features and better glass for the same price. a vx3 cds is more expensive than a vortex pst FFP Whst is Vortex's equivalent of the .3mil daylight bright capable motion activated Firedot reticle on the various VX-R scopes? Do they shut offautomatically after motionless for five minutes? Do they activate automatically when picked up remembering their last setting? Is the Vortex illumination always ready when things go bump in the night, like an Aimpoint, with no buttons to push or knobs to turn? Do they have a battery life measured in years without turning it off? |
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Can you buy a new FFP Mk4 for less than $700? I doubt it... Quoted:
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With all the great Japanese made options today, anyone would be a fool to buy a Mk4. Unless the price is right. Can you buy a new FFP Mk4 for less than $700? I doubt it... What scope would recommend with those features? I thought Vortex is made in the Phillipeans |
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In Benchrest scopes are seldom adjusted up and down, left and right, to the degree that "tactical-type" scopes are. Where I see the majority of issues with the Mk4/6/8 line is when you are working the knobs constantly.
Yep, the Vortex Viper PST optics are made in the Philippines. I am not sure, however, where the glass is sourced from. If someone knows, chime in. I'd call Vortex and ask, but I'm overseas right now. |
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In my school, I see more Mk4's fail than all other brands put together. Some of the issues I have seen in multiple Mk4 scopes are: -Failure to return to zero -Failure to hold zero -Adjustments that are not anywhere close to being what they are supposed to be. For example, in the worst case I ran a "box drill" with a Mk4 with .25MOA turrets. Ran the turrets a supposed 4MOA per side. The resultant "box" measured a solid 8" per side. No, I did not count the "clicks" wrong and no it wasn't .5MOA adjustments. I verified, re-verified and shot a second box drill with the same results. On Day 2 of the class, the scope suddenly started adjusting at .25MOA like it was supposed to. Later that same day, .5MOA again. -Lenses that "de-laminated". 2 lenses that were glued together come apart. Funkiest thing I have ever seen when looking through a scope. It was like looking through a glass orange peel. This I have only seen in 1 Mk4.....so far. -Cannot get the parallax set I have seen issues with the Mk6 and Mk8 scopes as well. For that kinda money, they should be getting things done right. I would sincerely like to see Leupold put out a solid, American-made tactical optic. I really would. I have an old (over 20 years old) Vari-X III 2.5-8x36mm. It was a scratched up, used scope when I bought it right after I got out of the Corps. It has been mounted on my primary deer rifle, a tuned up but fairly stock Remington 788 .308, for 20 years now. For the past 17 years, it has held perfect zero. Every deer season when I go to check zero, it has been dead on.....for 17 years straight. I haven't taken the turret caps off in 17 years. That is a rugged, reliable optic. If I saw that same level of reliability out of the Mk4, Mk6 or Mk8 optics, I'd own a safe full of them. I owned an old Mk4 M3 10x. Solid scope, never had an issue with it. My old SWAT Team Mk4 6.5-20x I never had an issue with. With that said, I see too many bad ones to trust the Leupold Tactical line of scopes at all. How much of this could be perception based on the quantity of scopes you see? I suspect that Leupold over the last 30 years has made 10-20x the number of scopes of the rest combined, so consequently you see a lot more of them fail. Statistics vs perception based on quantity is an internet fight. Thousands of happy customers can be completely blanked by 5 vocal unhappy customers. |
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I guess you don't do much competitive shooting. Leupold appears on rifles at the top of the posted lists more frequently than Vortex. I have nothing against Vortex, please understand. Leupold's Competition scopes virtually dominate benchrest. Their VX-6 scopes are doing very well in 3G. Quoted:
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Leupold has not stacked up to their competition until recently. They rode the .mil/.gov success wave from 2000 to 2012 where they suddenly realized people were buying vortex optics with twice the clarity and features for half the bill. They have since been jumping through their assess to get new stuff out but the high prices commanded put their nicer gear against top companies that people seem to like better (USO, NF, etc) I stick to the MK4s because A. I like having all my glass be the same so theres nothing to relearn. and B. military discount make it worthwhile. I have thought long and hard about selling all of them to replace with Vortex scopes though. only ones sticking with leopold now a days are old timers like my father in law who give it the ole ' i wont buy it unless it was made in America ' speech. i truly believe vortex is going to own the scope market in the next 10 years, unless they realize what they have going and start raising prices I guess you don't do much competitive shooting. Leupold appears on rifles at the top of the posted lists more frequently than Vortex. I have nothing against Vortex, please understand. Leupold's Competition scopes virtually dominate benchrest. Their VX-6 scopes are doing very well in 3G. Not in PRS matches, which is what 90% of this forum is geared to. |
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What scope would recommend with those features? I thought Vortex is made in the Phillipeans Quoted:
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With all the great Japanese made options today, anyone would be a fool to buy a Mk4. Unless the price is right. Can you buy a new FFP Mk4 for less than $700? I doubt it... What scope would recommend with those features? I thought Vortex is made in the Phillipeans SWFA SS 3-15x42 Weaver Tactical 3-15x50 EMDR Some of the Vortex scopes are made there but the Razor line is Japan. |
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jestertoo, I don't see any more Leupolds than I do NF's, Vortex Viper PST's or Vortex Razors. As a matter of fact, in the last 2 classes I taught, there was a single Leupold (a Mk6). That was a single Leupold total for both classes. I don't see near as many Leupolds as a used to, now that there are so many other optics on the market. Here lately I have had more S&B PMII's come through my courses than Leupolds.
I don't have anything against Leupold and I do not have an axe to grind. As I stated above, the Leupolds I have owned or been issued have been solid performers. I see many more scopes than the average shooter on a regular basis. Not only do I see a lot more scopes, they are oftentimes put through the wringer during my courses, depending upon the course. If an optic is going to fail, it will fail during one of my courses. As an old American optic company, I would like nothing better than for Leupold to make products that I can wholeheartedly throw my support behind. I sincerely hope it happens, and sooner rather than later. Leupold Mk4's used to be my favorite readily accessible optic. I didn't used to be an NF fan and now they're my favorites. In a year or so as things change my opinions could change. I'm not some internet yahoo with a chip on my shoulder. I've been a USMC Scout/Sniper, SWAT Sniper and Sniper Instructor for over 25 years. I don't get paid by any optics, ammo or rifle company. I give my honest, informed, professional opinion on gear that I have seen in action or used myself. I won't just throw out comments without the research and time spent to readily back them up. If you're using the Leupold line, you like them and they've given you stalwart service, then by all means keep using them. It's a free market society and you can use whatever you want. It would be a boring world if we all used the same kit. |
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i was starting to become optimistic after all the hype about leupold returning to respectability, until i got to handle their high end offering at a match this spring, next to the new NF atacr FFP and a vortex gen 2. i wish them well, but let's not kid ourselves. leupold has a long way to go to catch up. Yes sir. I wouldn't even bother with a Mark 4 at this point. Viper PSTs have been a better scope, IME. |
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jestertoo, I don't see any more Leupolds than I do NF's, Vortex Viper PST's or Vortex Razors. As a matter of fact, in the last 2 classes I taught, there was a single Leupold (a Mk6). That was a single Leupold total for both classes. I don't see near as many Leupolds as a used to, now that there are so many other optics on the market. Here lately I have had more S&B PMII's come through my courses than Leupolds. I don't have anything against Leupold and I do not have an axe to grind. As I stated above, the Leupolds I have owned or been issued have been solid performers. I see many more scopes than the average shooter on a regular basis. Not only do I see a lot more scopes, they are oftentimes put through the wringer during my courses, depending upon the course. If an optic is going to fail, it will fail during one of my courses. As an old American optic company, I would like nothing better than for Leupold to make products that I can wholeheartedly throw my support behind. I sincerely hope it happens, and sooner rather than later. Leupold Mk4's used to be my favorite readily accessible optic. I didn't used to be an NF fan and now they're my favorites. In a year or so as things change my opinions could change. I'm not some internet yahoo with a chip on my shoulder. I've been a USMC Scout/Sniper, SWAT Sniper and Sniper Instructor for over 25 years. I don't get paid by any optics, ammo or rifle company. I give my honest, informed, professional opinion on gear that I have seen in action or used myself. I won't just throw out comments without the research and time spent to readily back them up. If you're using the Leupold line, you like them and they've given you stalwart service, then by all means keep using them. It's a free market society and you can use whatever you want. It would be a boring world if we all used the same kit. So they are the minority now in representation AND failing more often. Ouch. |
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I guess you don't do much competitive shooting. Leupold appears on rifles at the top of the posted lists more frequently than Vortex. I have nothing against Vortex, please understand. Leupold's Competition scopes virtually dominate benchrest. Their VX-6 scopes are doing very well in 3G. Quoted:
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Leupold has not stacked up to their competition until recently. They rode the .mil/.gov success wave from 2000 to 2012 where they suddenly realized people were buying vortex optics with twice the clarity and features for half the bill. They have since been jumping through their assess to get new stuff out but the high prices commanded put their nicer gear against top companies that people seem to like better (USO, NF, etc) I stick to the MK4s because A. I like having all my glass be the same so theres nothing to relearn. and B. military discount make it worthwhile. I have thought long and hard about selling all of them to replace with Vortex scopes though. only ones sticking with leopold now a days are old timers like my father in law who give it the ole ' i wont buy it unless it was made in America ' speech. i truly believe vortex is going to own the scope market in the next 10 years, unless they realize what they have going and start raising prices I guess you don't do much competitive shooting. Leupold appears on rifles at the top of the posted lists more frequently than Vortex. I have nothing against Vortex, please understand. Leupold's Competition scopes virtually dominate benchrest. Their VX-6 scopes are doing very well in 3G. Back when I was shooting F class monthly, most of the guys were running the same guns for BR matches as f class. There were a lot more NF, Sightrons and March scopes compared to Leupolds. Leupold fumbled the ball while everyone else picked it up and ran with it. You can't survive in a free market on your name alone. Innovation and quality is required; which Leupold may have forgotten. |
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SWFA SS 3-15x42 Weaver Tactical 3-15x50 EMDR Some of the Vortex scopes are made there but the Razor line is Japan. Quoted:
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With all the great Japanese made options today, anyone would be a fool to buy a Mk4. Unless the price is right. Can you buy a new FFP Mk4 for less than $700? I doubt it... What scope would recommend with those features? I thought Vortex is made in the Phillipeans SWFA SS 3-15x42 Weaver Tactical 3-15x50 EMDR Some of the Vortex scopes are made there but the Razor line is Japan. What's your opinion of the Vortex PST series? Are they reliable? |
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Whst is Vortex's equivalent of the .3mil daylight bright capable motion activated Firedot reticle on the various VX-R scopes? Do they shut offautomatically after motionless for five minutes? Do they activate automatically when picked up remembering their last setting? Is the Vortex illumination always ready when things go bump in the night, like an Aimpoint, with no buttons to push or knobs to turn? Do they have a battery life measured in years without turning it off? Quoted:
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Their low and mid range offerings seem great. I used a mark 4 recently and wasn't impressed with anything about it. even those can be replaced with a vortex with more features and better glass for the same price. a vx3 cds is more expensive than a vortex pst FFP Whst is Vortex's equivalent of the .3mil daylight bright capable motion activated Firedot reticle on the various VX-R scopes? Do they shut offautomatically after motionless for five minutes? Do they activate automatically when picked up remembering their last setting? Is the Vortex illumination always ready when things go bump in the night, like an Aimpoint, with no buttons to push or knobs to turn? Do they have a battery life measured in years without turning it off? a FFP, accruate tracking , and better glass are features that trump any fancy illumination gadgets |
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I guess you don't do much competitive shooting. Leupold appears on rifles at the top of the posted lists more frequently than Vortex. I have nothing against Vortex, please understand. Leupold's Competition scopes virtually dominate benchrest. Their VX-6 scopes are doing very well in 3G. Quoted:
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Leupold has not stacked up to their competition until recently. They rode the .mil/.gov success wave from 2000 to 2012 where they suddenly realized people were buying vortex optics with twice the clarity and features for half the bill. They have since been jumping through their assess to get new stuff out but the high prices commanded put their nicer gear against top companies that people seem to like better (USO, NF, etc) I stick to the MK4s because A. I like having all my glass be the same so theres nothing to relearn. and B. military discount make it worthwhile. I have thought long and hard about selling all of them to replace with Vortex scopes though. only ones sticking with leopold now a days are old timers like my father in law who give it the ole ' i wont buy it unless it was made in America ' speech. i truly believe vortex is going to own the scope market in the next 10 years, unless they realize what they have going and start raising prices I guess you don't do much competitive shooting. Leupold appears on rifles at the top of the posted lists more frequently than Vortex. I have nothing against Vortex, please understand. Leupold's Competition scopes virtually dominate benchrest. Their VX-6 scopes are doing very well in 3G. oh ya? 
to add there is a trend for vortex to surpass s&b |
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Coming from a die hard Leupold user of 24 years (it was the only scope my father and his hunting group would buy, back when Premier would put custom reticles in them for you), Vortex is eating their lunch, right in front of their faces.
They've priced their high end into S&B territory. Their middle of the road MK4 are more expensive and lesser scopes than comparable Vortex, Bushnell, etc offerings. Their hunting lines were surpassed in quality features, reticles and price by Zeiss of all companies, first with the Conquest and then the Terra. And their low end stuff? I don't know I don't really look at anything past VX-2 level. I have one older Mk4, which I'll never get rid of because it has ultrafine crosshairs and a 1/4 minute target dot and I love that for what I use it for. I still have half a dozen VX or Vari-X 2s and 3s on hunting rifles that I see no need to replace. But I don't see myself buying any new Leupolds in the near future. The last 4 optics I've purchased were Steiner, Nightforce, Zeiss, Zeiss. The next one I purchase will either be a Vortex Razor, Bushnell 3-21x or another Nightforce, more than likely. |
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Not in PRS matches, which is what 90% of this forum is geared to. Quoted:
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Leupold has not stacked up to their competition until recently. They rode the .mil/.gov success wave from 2000 to 2012 where they suddenly realized people were buying vortex optics with twice the clarity and features for half the bill. They have since been jumping through their assess to get new stuff out but the high prices commanded put their nicer gear against top companies that people seem to like better (USO, NF, etc) I stick to the MK4s because A. I like having all my glass be the same so theres nothing to relearn. and B. military discount make it worthwhile. I have thought long and hard about selling all of them to replace with Vortex scopes though. only ones sticking with leopold now a days are old timers like my father in law who give it the ole ' i wont buy it unless it was made in America ' speech. i truly believe vortex is going to own the scope market in the next 10 years, unless they realize what they have going and start raising prices I guess you don't do much competitive shooting. Leupold appears on rifles at the top of the posted lists more frequently than Vortex. I have nothing against Vortex, please understand. Leupold's Competition scopes virtually dominate benchrest. Their VX-6 scopes are doing very well in 3G. Not in PRS matches, which is what 90% of this forum is geared to. You are right. I stand corrected. But in PRS the only Vortex that seems to do well is the Razer HD. While several Leupold scopes are doing pretty well, like both the Mark 6 and Mark 8, none of these are inexpensive scopes, however. |
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a FFP, accruate tracking , and better glass are features that trump any fancy illumination gadgets Quoted:
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Their low and mid range offerings seem great. I used a mark 4 recently and wasn't impressed with anything about it. even those can be replaced with a vortex with more features and better glass for the same price. a vx3 cds is more expensive than a vortex pst FFP Whst is Vortex's equivalent of the .3mil daylight bright capable motion activated Firedot reticle on the various VX-R scopes? Do they shut offautomatically after motionless for five minutes? Do they activate automatically when picked up remembering their last setting? Is the Vortex illumination always ready when things go bump in the night, like an Aimpoint, with no buttons to push or knobs to turn? Do they have a battery life measured in years without turning it off? a FFP, accruate tracking , and better glass are features that trump any fancy illumination gadgets So you answer is that Vortex does not have a comparable feature. Thank you. It is extremely effective for those of us who use scopes in low light or on rapidly moving targets and is not a gadget. |
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So you answer is that Vortex does not have a comparable feature. Thank you. It is extremely effective for those of us who use scopes in low light or on rapidly moving targets and is not a gadget. Quoted:
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Their low and mid range offerings seem great. I used a mark 4 recently and wasn't impressed with anything about it. even those can be replaced with a vortex with more features and better glass for the same price. a vx3 cds is more expensive than a vortex pst FFP Whst is Vortex's equivalent of the .3mil daylight bright capable motion activated Firedot reticle on the various VX-R scopes? Do they shut offautomatically after motionless for five minutes? Do they activate automatically when picked up remembering their last setting? Is the Vortex illumination always ready when things go bump in the night, like an Aimpoint, with no buttons to push or knobs to turn? Do they have a battery life measured in years without turning it off? a FFP, accruate tracking , and better glass are features that trump any fancy illumination gadgets So you answer is that Vortex does not have a comparable feature. Thank you. It is extremely effective for those of us who use scopes in low light or on rapidly moving targets and is not a gadget. Different scopes for different reasons. You have to pick the right tool for the job at hand. No scope does everything perfectly. Vortex are built very well for their intended use. |
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So you answer is that Vortex does not have a comparable feature. Thank you. It is extremely effective for those of us who use scopes in low light or on rapidly moving targets and is not a gadget. Quoted:
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Their low and mid range offerings seem great. I used a mark 4 recently and wasn't impressed with anything about it. even those can be replaced with a vortex with more features and better glass for the same price. a vx3 cds is more expensive than a vortex pst FFP Whst is Vortex's equivalent of the .3mil daylight bright capable motion activated Firedot reticle on the various VX-R scopes? Do they shut offautomatically after motionless for five minutes? Do they activate automatically when picked up remembering their last setting? Is the Vortex illumination always ready when things go bump in the night, like an Aimpoint, with no buttons to push or knobs to turn? Do they have a battery life measured in years without turning it off? a FFP, accruate tracking , and better glass are features that trump any fancy illumination gadgets So you answer is that Vortex does not have a comparable feature. Thank you. It is extremely effective for those of us who use scopes in low light or on rapidly moving targets and is not a gadget. I would think having accurate tracking would be needed more then a reticle that shuts itself off after x amount of time. Yes, a neat feature but it is supercilious . I own a vx 6 and the glass on a pst is hands down better. The vx6 was much more money and doesn't have the same turret system. Sorry leupold fell off the wagon long ago |
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How much it run with the Mil discount? Vortex also offers LE/Mil discounts on their optics. Just over $1K Optics Planet is running a 10% off labor day sale. For $860 I get the Viper PST 6-24x with FFP and zero stop. Hard to beat those features at that price. I was just about to pull the trigger... |
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Just for the sake of full disclosure it is not a hard zero stop but makes the stop with the use of a shim system. It works but just wanted you to know going in. Have had a few students with the zero stop set up in place and they like it.
I have that exact scope with the 2C reticle and it's a very nice scope for the money and at that price it's a great deal. Not sure if you saw my post about it but here's a link http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_277/266984_New_PST_mpounted_up_.html |
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Just for the sake of full disclosure it is not a hard zero stop but makes the stop with the use of a shim system. It works but just wanted you to know going in. Have had a few students with the zero stop set up in place and they like it. I have that exact scope with the 2C reticle and it's a very nice scope for the money and at that price it's a great deal. Not sure if you saw my post about it but here's a link http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_277/266984_New_PST_mpounted_up_.html I did. Thanks. That was part of the reason I went looking this morning. I need to go find the user manual and take a look at the shims. |
