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Posted: 5/6/2016 4:50:50 PM EDT
My new gun club has some for sale pretty cheap. I dont really see much of a need for it. With a handgun and rifle I believe the shotgun sort of hasnt much of a place for defensive use.
Yet again, the prices on used ones are pretty good, and Spain is pretty lax regarding barrel lenght with a 12" minimum length. This means that for 200-300 bucks you have some nice used short barrel shotguns. I dont know, maybe theres something I'm missing. I'll probably end up getting one anyway just for kicks, but I'd feel better if I had a good excuse for it as well/ 
Some inspiration... 
FerFAL |
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Posted: 5/6/2016 5:38:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Didn't you have a short barreled shotgun when living in Argentina? I remember a picture of a possible 20ga shotgun revolver if memory serves and a 12ga shorty too. But hell, if it's being offered, why not? They cost at least $600 + the $200 or $5 stamp here in the states.
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Posted: 5/6/2016 5:42:18 PM EDT
[#2]
They are not the best for defense but are almost unmatched as a do it all one gun solution.
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Posted: 5/6/2016 5:42:51 PM EDT
[#3]
the USPSA World Shoot in 1987 was held in Florida, and we had shooters from South Africa and Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) at several of our local matches.... had a change to talk to them about what was effective as anti-hijacking deterrent during the troubles there... while most carried high cap 9mm as sidearms, they commented the muzzle blast from a 12ga was pretty effective....Browning A5s were in high demand at local gun shows
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Posted: 5/6/2016 5:45:07 PM EDT
[#4]
You can make a 14" 870 or 500 that doesn't require the $200 NFA tax
link The host starts with a Pistol Grip Only (PGO) shotgun that has *never* had a stock mounted on it. Its pretty easy to find a PGO 500 and a little more difficult to find a PGO 870 but they are out there. When you add the shockwave pistol grip you are able to have a 26"+ OAL with a BBl of 14". For the 500 you need to buy the complete 14" front end but IIRC the 870 only needs the BBL cut (due to the where the BBL lug is mounted on the 870 vs the 500). 9 page thread in the Shotgun forum |
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Posted: 5/6/2016 6:01:37 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't you have a short barreled shotgun when living in Argentina? I remember a picture of a possible 20ga shotgun revolver if memory serves and a 12ga shorty too. But hell, if it's being offered, why not? They cost at least $600 + the $200 or $5 stamp here in the states. You mean these two? 
Yes, but they are in Argentina. And as I was saying, other than fun guns I didnt use them much. The Mos500 shotgun I did have ready for use, and I liked that if the situation called for you could use LTL, although daily riots and looting really arent a thing here in Spain. Hell, even home invasions are very rare in my area, let alone armed ones with people inside. FerFAL |
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Posted: 5/7/2016 11:46:13 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 5/7/2016 12:21:46 PM EDT
[#7]
At that price, grab it. They are real handy in the house and the versatility of the ammunition types allow you to tailor them to your specific needs.
I have a 14" Mossy 590 SBS and it is just a blast to shoot. I also have a BATF&E Form 1 submitted to have a VEPR - 12 cut to 14" as well. I can't wait to get that done. The main drawback to them is that they are excruciatingly slow to reload, especially under pressure. A good high cap pistol should be part of your shotgun strategy because a second gun is sometimes the fastest reload. That is part of the reason that I really like the VEPR - 12 which is magazine fed. In the time it takes to load a couple of rounds in the pump gun's tube I can have a ten round mag in the V-12. But I am sure that you know all of this FerFAL ... YMMV, The MULE |
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Posted: 5/7/2016 2:19:18 PM EDT
[#8]
With 12 ga, you'll want the Pachmayr Vindicator grip or a folding stock, and low-recoil subsonic ammo. If they have a 20 ga available, that's actually enjoyable w/ #3 buck and a modified Vindicator grip.
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Posted: 5/8/2016 3:47:29 PM EDT
[#9]
I picked up a new Rem 870 a number of years ago for cheap. Had the barrel cut down to 16" and put on, 1) an extended tube and 2) a 'Cop Stock' grip (spring loaded and really cuts down the recoil). Eight rounds with one in the chamber. Lite, easy to carry and for 'up close and personal' not a bad arm.
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Posted: 5/9/2016 7:05:28 PM EDT
[#10]
IMHO a pistol grip 12" -14" shotgun is almost worthless, hell ANY pistol grip shotgun is almost worthless in MOST scenerios... you have low capacity, poor ability to aim it, a good chance of getting smacked in the face if you DO try to aim it, and its not even a very good club.
.. now the same shotgun with decent sights, and a stock... that's a totally different animal, and is very useful. I would not feel under gunned with a 14" sbs shotgun. especially if I had slugs and buckshot. something like this. its not a assault rifle, or a high capacity handgun, but its definitely not worthless. a single good hit with a load of buckshot gives 9-15 , 9mm sized holes in something. a good hit with a slug is priceless, and a slug will beat ANY handgun round in power and penetration. plus shotgun ammo is not hard to find, vs many handgun rounds. not to mention, even a sbs is still good at shooting animals. 
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Posted: 5/10/2016 11:17:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMHO a pistol grip 12" -14" shotgun is almost worthless, hell ANY pistol grip shotgun is almost worthless in MOST scenerios... you have low capacity, poor ability to aim it, a good chance of getting smacked in the face if you DO try to aim it, and its not even a very good club.
.. now the same shotgun with decent sights, and a stock... that's a totally different animal, and is very useful. I would not feel under gunned with a 14" sbs shotgun. especially if I had slugs and buckshot. something like this. its not a assault rifle, or a high capacity handgun, but its definitely not worthless. a single good hit with a load of buckshot gives 9-15 , 9mm sized holes in something. a good hit with a slug is priceless, and a slug will beat ANY handgun round in power and penetration. plus shotgun ammo is not hard to find, vs many handgun rounds. not to mention, even a sbs is still good at shooting animals. http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp58/buck19delta/4903f1e4fb10ebe93c2be2c02712bc78_zpsoineqoim.jpg Agree. My primary load out for SHTF is in fact a pump action (normal stock,) loaded with buckshot and a 1911 on my side. I have a pistol grip single shot for fun, and call it my hand cannon, but it isn't particularly good at anything... 
Its still fun, neat, and handy to toss under the seat of my Jeep. 
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Posted: 5/10/2016 1:07:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can make a 14" 870 or 500 that doesn't require the $200 NFA tax link The host starts with a Pistol Grip Only (PGO) shotgun that has *never* had a stock mounted on it. Its pretty easy to find a PGO 500 and a little more difficult to find a PGO 870 but they are out there. When you add the shockwave pistol grip you are able to have a 26"+ OAL with a BBl of 14". For the 500 you need to buy the complete 14" front end but IIRC the 870 only needs the BBL cut (due to the where the BBL lug is mounted on the 870 vs the 500). 9 page thread in the Shotgun forum I picked a Coast to Coast 880 (Mossy 500) at a fun show recently for $125. I added a Shockwave grip and Esstac shotshell card Velcroed to the side, chopping barrel to 19". It's very compact Cylinder bore shotgun. |
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Posted: 5/10/2016 1:46:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
My new gun club has some for sale pretty cheap. I dont really see much of a need for it. With a handgun and rifle I believe the shotgun sort of hasnt much of a place for defensive use. Yet again, the prices on used ones are pretty good, and Spain is pretty lax regarding barrel lenght with a 12" minimum length. This means that for 200-300 bucks you have some nice used short barrel shotguns. I dont know, maybe theres something I'm missing. I'll probably end up getting one anyway just for kicks, but I'd feel better if I had a good excuse for it as well/
Some inspiration... https://www.gunfactory.ch/langwaf/images/fabarm_martial.jpg FerFAL Then you need to watch more American Movies!!
Seriously, Look at history! World war II! As well as Vietnam and the Tunnel Rats who went down the tunnels! I do not know how much the Military use it today! (Someone who just got out know the shotguns usage today?) We have to jump through hoops to get something like that! I myself would like an auto loader if I was going through the paper work here!!! IMHO!!! You do not need one with sights. With out a stock aiming is damn near impossible!! 
Let the hive know how much fun you have! With pictures!!!! 
PITA45
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Posted: 5/10/2016 10:46:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IMHO a pistol grip 12" -14" shotgun is almost worthless, hell ANY pistol grip shotgun is almost worthless in MOST scenerios... you have low capacity, poor ability to aim it, a good chance of getting smacked in the face if you DO try to aim it, and its not even a very good club.
.. now the same shotgun with decent sights, and a stock... that's a totally different animal, and is very useful. I would not feel under gunned with a 14" sbs shotgun. especially if I had slugs and buckshot. something like this. its not a assault rifle, or a high capacity handgun, but its definitely not worthless. a single good hit with a load of buckshot gives 9-15 , 9mm sized holes in something. a good hit with a slug is priceless, and a slug will beat ANY handgun round in power and penetration. plus shotgun ammo is not hard to find, vs many handgun rounds. not to mention, even a sbs is still good at shooting animals. http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp58/buck19delta/4903f1e4fb10ebe93c2be2c02712bc78_zpsoineqoim.jpg Folks always buy the 12 ga, then claim it sucks. 12 ga 00 buck recoil does suck. My 20 ga PG 870 has 7 in the mag, I'm a damn sight better shot w/ it than any pistol, there's no way I'm going to smack myself in the face w/ it, and I don't have to club anybody if I've just shot them 7 times w/ 20 ga buck. If you have to get the 12 ga, run low-recoil buckshot in it, put a Pachmayr grip on it, or better yet get a folding stock. Choate even has a folding stock for the 20 ga now. |
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Posted: 5/10/2016 11:10:51 PM EDT
[#15]
I have a PGO 870 12 ga with shockwave grip and 14" barrel. At reasonable ranges it is very effective. The raptor grip angle makes the "firearm" (it's not technically a shotgun as a shotgun is defined as shoulder fired) recoil more down at an angle. The muzzle flip is not as bad as a true pistol grip. I've shot full power buckshot with it and it's not as bad as some people say. Not the most useful weapon I own by any stretch but it's fun and compact.
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Posted: 5/11/2016 9:41:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMHO a pistol grip 12" -14" shotgun is almost worthless, hell ANY pistol grip shotgun is almost worthless in MOST scenerios... you have low capacity, poor ability to aim it, a good chance of getting smacked in the face if you DO try to aim it, and its not even a very good club.
.. now the same shotgun with decent sights, and a stock... that's a totally different animal, and is very useful. I would not feel under gunned with a 14" sbs shotgun. especially if I had slugs and buckshot. something like this. its not a assault rifle, or a high capacity handgun, but its definitely not worthless. a single good hit with a load of buckshot gives 9-15 , 9mm sized holes in something. a good hit with a slug is priceless, and a slug will beat ANY handgun round in power and penetration. plus shotgun ammo is not hard to find, vs many handgun rounds. not to mention, even a sbs is still good at shooting animals. http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp58/buck19delta/4903f1e4fb10ebe93c2be2c02712bc78_zpsoineqoim.jpg You must have never seen Miami Vice back in the day. Tubbs was quite effective with a SBS. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 11:35:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can make a 14" 870 or 500 that doesn't require the $200 NFA tax link The host starts with a Pistol Grip Only (PGO) shotgun that has *never* had a stock mounted on it. Its pretty easy to find a PGO 500 and a little more difficult to find a PGO 870 but they are out there. When you add the shockwave pistol grip you are able to have a 26"+ OAL with a BBl of 14". For the 500 you need to buy the complete 14" front end but IIRC the 870 only needs the BBL cut (due to the where the BBL lug is mounted on the 870 vs the 500). 9 page thread in the Shotgun forum I didn't think we could have these in Texas. Did I miss something? Because, if so.....sign me up! |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 12:08:02 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't think we could have these in Texas. Did I miss something? Because, if so.....sign me up! Sadly, I agree w/ you. Our stupid mini-NFA is written more simply than the Federal NFA, and as a consequence, I don't think we have have non-NFA sub-18" smoothbores. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, however. |
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