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Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By turtle2472: Thank you for the replies. I read it last night, a few times, thinking through how I can make this happen. Everything from trying to find other sources for this type of zoysia at different supplies for less and maybe be able to buy enough rolls of sod. I've not been able to find ANY plugs for this strain either, sod only. The only place I can find it locally is the one distributor I bought these from. Apparently I chose a strain that golf courses love. Now I know why they charge such a premium for it. I can't say I never had taste. While I don't have champagne taste on a beer budget, but my yard is on a beer budget. To answer my water source, regional water district. I'm willing to pay for the water consumption to get this established though. The logistics of getting a sprinkler set up on that patch is something I'll have to work through but will figure out how to make happen. Would the recommendation be an oscillating wand or impact style? The area is about 460 sqft total (almost perfect square) that is all clay. I'll set up the hose on a timer so I don't have to think about it, it will happen rain or shine on whatever interval is needed. I'm going to see about buying more rolls from the local supplier. There was only about 10 rolls left on the pallet when I picked these up so I will see what is left when I head out there later. From there I'm open to breaking out the machete and chopping up my current patch and spreading it out. When breaking them up and "planting" them, do you mean to mostly cover with the clay too? I'm good with that but I know clay isn't forgiving. I'm envisioning using a dirt knife/trowel to dig a shallow square and then set the sod chunk in it and gently cover with finer clay so blades are exposed but the core mat is mostly covered. Is that about right? What kind of other supplies should I look at getting? I have Tractor Supply, Home Depot and Lowe's all in town I can go to. Of course, anything that is available for delivery will get there too. I'm assuming fertilizer but no idea what is the best for what I'm going to be doing here. For the weeds... the thought had crossed my mind that they would naturally come back. I have a backpack sprayer that is just herbicide, but I'm good with getting another sprayer to spray down weed killer. Ideally, for my lazy style, it would be great if I were applying whatever product with a garden hose and sprayer. If better for the lawn, I'll go out there with a pressure sprayer type and manually walk around instead. View Quote Okay a few things. 1-No, don't bury the sod. But you DO need to hollow out a little space, and "set" the dirt part in the ground, and make sure the edges have dirt sloping up to them. Basically, when you have a big piece of sod, you have the middle that does not dry out completely, and the edges that get very dry, if they are not butted up against something (which they almost always are). With small pieces of sod that you are treating like plugs, you've got to sort of "plant" that piece of sod. Use the soil to help it not die from drying out too fast. Even with you watering plenty, a small piece, without a root ball (like a plug would have) is going to get very dry, very quickly. So this is more work than just rolling out strips of sod, but it will pay off for you. 2-Your sprayer is fine. Herbicide for the weeds in zoysia is what you want. So you want a herbicide that won't hurt the zoysia/warm season grass. It will be primarily 2, 4-D, but usually the formulations have something else in there too, to give it more punch. They are usually generic and very cheap in small bottles. You are going to overspray your turf, and also spray your bare areas. Folks seem to really like Celsius, but you should research that. 3-I tell my customers to go to Lowe's or Home Depot and get decent quality impact sprinklers from there. Cuz they are not gonna order something specific. They just want to buy it, shove it out there, and have it work. The ones @TheStig posted are absolutely fine. I could recommend some truly outstanding sprinklers, but they are more expensive, and you don't need fancy just for establishment. I do have some opinions on timers that I absolutely hate and you should not buy. Pay the money and get the one you can run from your phone. I can't think of the name of the rotten one. If you need that, I'll go look at the POS one I tossed in the garage. HERE IS THE TROUBLE: Zoysia is slow to establish. It does not spread quickly like Bermuda does. Especially at first. It can take a couple of years to really get established and covering ground. That means you are going to be spraying that bare ground a LOT, and you are likely to go over your annual rate for the herbicide use. This is more than just a problem on paper. 1- Weeds develop resistance, just like bugs do. Overuse of one herbicide can make it less viable for you in the future. 2- While we say "X herbicide doesn't hurt Y grass" that's not entirely true. The grass still has to process that herbicide, and it's going to slow down the establishment and spread even more. So you've got yourself kind of between a rock and a hard place here. I do NOT recommend using glyphosate "between the plugs of sod" because you're accidentally going to kill some of it. You can't use a pre-emergent herbicide like prodiamine because that's a root pruner. It will keep your sod from rooting, tacking down runners, etc. Honestly if you can swing it, I'd either sod the whole thing, or go with a different, less-expensive cultivar and just redo the whole thing. Maybe put the fancy sod on a curb strip or something so it all matches in one section? I dunno. This is a tough one. I wish I had a better solution. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
I REALLY like this strain of Zoysia so I don't really want to change it out. Maybe I'm going to be setting aside money each month to add another handful of rolls as I go along every month. It will be a long process, but it sounds like it is going to be much shorter than waiting for it to grow naturally.
Part of the challenge I have is that my wife likes this grass and hates pretty much all other heat tolerant grasses. Y'all have given me some good info and input. Thanks. It really is appreciated. I'll keep asking questions as I go along for sure. |
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Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
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Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By turtle2472: I REALLY like this strain of Zoysia so I don't really want to change it out. Maybe I'm going to be setting aside money each month to add another handful of rolls as I go along every month. It will be a long process, but it sounds like it is going to be much shorter than waiting for it to grow naturally. Part of the challenge I have is that my wife likes this grass and hates pretty much all other heat tolerant grasses. Y'all have given me some good info and input. Thanks. It really is appreciated. I'll keep asking questions as I go along for sure. View Quote Yes, ask questions, and show us how it goes! So if you are going to aim for, say, a hundred square feet per month. (just guessing...it could be half that...no idea what you are thinking) MAKE A PLAN. Grid off your yard, and make a paper plan. DECIDE NOW which are the first three squares (300 square feet) you are going to sod. THEN...put prodiamine down (this is a pre-emergent herbicide) on EVERYTHING ELSE. This will save you so, so, SO much hassle. I would also consider getting some bags of peat moss at Lowe's or HD, and spreading that over the bare soil, just to help it hold water and not blow away, turn into a complete mud pit, etc. But That's a "nicety". What you really need is weed prevention. The pre-emergent is your friend, AND...if you do the application correctly, it will wear off in....drum roll please.....three months. Just when you are ready to start your next square of sod. OR you could get landscape fabric and a bunch of staples, put down the pre-emergent, then roll out the fabric and staple the hell out of it. (And lay down some rocks, pavers, etc.) It won't be beautiful but it will help you in the long run. (Or you could do black plastic and no pre-emergent.) |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
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Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By turtle2472: A week in and I have roots! https://turtle2472.com/ar15/IMG_1198.jpeg I watched that video from LCN so I had to check. It is really nice to see this stuff setting in for the long haul. It does look greener now then it did when I unrolled it and the blades are certainly perking up. :) Progress. View Quote Yes If you haven't, you need to get a little fertilizer on that sod. Something with phosphorus in it is good. That helps with root development. Like what I use on new sod is, I put down a granular starter fertilizer on the bare dirt before I lay the sod (this is NOT a heavy application. It's just a little.) Then I water it like crazy, then I apply RGS, (this is a liquid) which is Greene County Fertilizer's root growth stimulant. Water that in. Then in about four-seven days (depending) I apply a liquid 16-21-2 with humic and fulvic acid. Now, I grow cool season grass (fescue, bluegrass, etc) but I don't think this sod starting technique varies much between cool and warm seasons. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Beautiful - hold the line! Jealous how healthy and full your yard looks. Excellent work.
We're finally up past 60 degree 5 day average soil temps and green up has been painfully slow with the new sod. It's ugly and patchy at the moment and the ground is super compacted. Waiting on someone to come out to core aerate. Till then, just applied some Lesco CarbonPro-G with 28-3-10 and looking forward to it waking up more. In other non-related lawn care news but landscape-adjacent, I've been getting some hardscape work done. Had masonry edging put in around our flower beds, extended the backyard concrete patio another 144 sqft for a sitting area and future pergola, and having an outdoor kitchen put it. Hoping this time next year we'll be ready to put in a pool. |
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Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By Cobalt135: Pic I took a few days ago looking across lawn into neighbors property who don't do anything but cut every week. Other side of property is field like so all the undesirable seeds blow in. Can you say weed pressure. West central OH to give a perspective on the zone I am in. https://i.imgur.com/NJSjG8Y.jpg Very happy so far with application of Stonewall .037% 13-0-0 non slow release N on March 3rd as far as the green-up goes. Another application of over 100 lbs. of slow release 30-0-10 on April 7th to get it out of the garage and out of the way. https://i.imgur.com/CJ4Izyg.jpg Past few days I sprayed some dandelions with some 2-4-d in the backpack sprayer that I should have treated this past fall as they made it through the mild winter we had. Impressed with the green-up so far. Growth rate so far will mean cutting every 4 or 5 days with moisture and rain but I'm OK with that. View Quote Very nice domination line! How many thousand square feet? (I'm wondering how much that 100 lbs was, as far as pounds on the ground per K). |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
Originally Posted By TheStig: Beautiful - hold the line! Jealous how healthy and full your yard looks. Excellent work. We're finally up past 60 degree 5 day average soil temps and green up has been painfully slow with the new sod. It's ugly and patchy at the moment and the ground is super compacted. Waiting on someone to come out to core aerate. Till then, just applied some Lesco CarbonPro-G with 28-3-10 and looking forward to it waking up more. In other non-related lawn care news but landscape-adjacent, I've been getting some hardscape work done. Had masonry edging put in around our flower beds, extended the backyard concrete patio another 144 sqft for a sitting area and future pergola, and having an outdoor kitchen put it. Hoping this time next year we'll be ready to put in a pool. View Quote We want pics, dude! You got any Greene County Air-8? Throw that to it, as SOON as you core aerate. It is HUGELY helpful to get it in the bottom of those core holes! |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Very nice domination line! How many thousand square feet? (I'm wondering how much that 100 lbs was, as far as pounds on the ground per K). View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Originally Posted By Cobalt135: Pic I took a few days ago looking across lawn into neighbors property who don't do anything but cut every week. Other side of property is field like so all the undesirable seeds blow in. Can you say weed pressure. West central OH to give a perspective on the zone I am in. https://i.imgur.com/NJSjG8Y.jpg Very happy so far with application of Stonewall .037% 13-0-0 non slow release N on March 3rd as far as the green-up goes. Another application of over 100 lbs. of slow release 30-0-10 on April 7th to get it out of the garage and out of the way. https://i.imgur.com/CJ4Izyg.jpg Past few days I sprayed some dandelions with some 2-4-d in the backpack sprayer that I should have treated this past fall as they made it through the mild winter we had. Impressed with the green-up so far. Growth rate so far will mean cutting every 4 or 5 days with moisture and rain but I'm OK with that. Very nice domination line! How many thousand square feet? (I'm wondering how much that 100 lbs was, as far as pounds on the ground per K). The Stonewall with 13-0-0 nitrogen was at the published rate of 6.2 Lb. per acre. Applied first week of March with no spring growth evident yet but wanted to get the Pre emergent down before soil temperatures warmed. Non slow release..... TOTAL NITROGEN (N) ........................................................................................13.00% 13.00%Urea Nitrogen* DERIVED FROM: Urea *3.20% Urea Nitrogen Stabilized with (N-(n-butyl) thiophosphoric triamide). April 7th applied just Nitrogen according to the rate on the bag.... 0.8 lb of nitrogen per 1000 sq/ft 30% urea nitrogen* 0.02 water soluble Iron Derived from: Polymer coated urea, Urea, Muriate of Potash, Iron Sucrate, Maganese Sucrate, *4.50 Urea nitrogen stabilized with Dicyandiamide 7.50% slow release nitrogen; from polymer coated urea. Best greenup I have seen in years, but I put some extra effort in this year putting down some extra N. Also sprayed about 3 gallons of 2-4-D this year mainly on dandelions that I should have started spraying in the fall of last year since they seemed to survive the winter. |
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Originally Posted By SWIRE: How do I get rid of this weed without killing off good plants? It comes up from the ground but then grows in between and over everything. I can pull it out by hand easy enough but it is everywhere and I can't get all of it. The weed has fibers all over it that will cause it to stick to clothing and other things. Pretty sure that is how it populates itself. View Quote What are the good plants (grass type/plant name/etc)? You just want to make sure whatever selective herbicide you use will not damage the nearby good plants. I'm not familiar with the pictured weeds but I'm certain someone more knowledgeable can chime in with proper identification and recommendation if they know what plants you don't want hurt/killed accidentally. |
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Originally Posted By SWIRE: How do I get rid of this weed without killing off good plants? It comes up from the ground but then grows in between and over everything. I can pull it out by hand easy enough but it is everywhere and I can't get all of it. The weed has fibers all over it that will cause it to stick to clothing and other things. Pretty sure that is how it populates itself. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed2_JPG-3189526.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed1_JPG-3189525.jpg View Quote That looks like goose grass, AKA catchweed bedstraw. Mixed in with desirable ornamentals hand removal is about all you can do without damaging what you want to keep. It is an annual that sprouts from seeds every year so a pre-emergent like Dimension could help if you get it down before the seeds germinate in the spring. |
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Hi Folks, just ran into this thread. Northeast Ohio here. A bit colder then @Cobalt135 Central Ohio.
Here’s some issues, I’m trying to deal with, hopefully someone can help me. Currently mowing about 3 acres (130,000 sqft), as some would say, that’s small, but it’s a beast. Running a Zero turn with a 64” cut with mulching blades. Granule Fertilizer is expensive, there must be a better way. Burning through about 350 lbs of 28-0-4, roughly cost $400. Which applied about every 3 years. In the other years, using Gordon’s liquid 20-0-0, which if about half the price $200, but not as effective but overall continues to make my grass green, using a 10’ boom sprayer and Crab Grass / Weed killer as well in the same treatment. What's an alternative compared to buying bagged fertilizer? How often to you mow your lawn? Me, in the spring, is like every 4 days. You miss a day, you’re screwed, it looks like the first harvest hay season. I would really like to bag it (that’s another purchase) what do I do with all the grass? And that’s a lot of grass. *Edit – Also core aeration in the fall, should it also be done in the Spring, as in now? |
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"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson
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Originally Posted By NotDeaf: Hi Folks, just ran into this thread. Northeast Ohio here. A bit colder then @Cobalt135 Central Ohio. Here's some issues, I'm trying to deal with, hopefully someone can help me. Currently mowing about 3 acres (130,000 sqft), as some would say, that's small, but it's a beast. Running a Zero turn with a 64" cut with mulching blades. Granule Fertilizer is expensive, there must be a better way. Burning through about 350 lbs of 28-0-4, roughly cost $400. Which applied about every 3 years. In the other years, using Gordon's liquid 20-0-0, which if about half the price $200, but not as effective but overall continues to make my grass green, using a 10' boom sprayer and Crab Grass / Weed killer as well in the same treatment. What's an alternative compared to buying bagged fertilizer? How often to you mow your lawn? Me, in the spring, is like every 4 days. You miss a day, you're screwed, it looks like the first harvest hay season. I would really like to bag it (that's another purchase) what do I do with all the grass? And that's a lot of grass. *Edit Also core aeration in the fall, should it also be done in the Spring, as in now? View Quote I don't apply liquid fert. except to some landscape plants and flowers so not going to be any help there. Spring mowing here with a fertilized lawn is every 4 to 5 days typically, especially if you want to follow the 'only cut 1/3 of the grass blade' which I don't always do. Weather obviously factors in. Mowed this past Sunday and will cut again this evening since it could rain tomorrow afternoon and Thursday night. Bagging is just taking away nutrients that would have made it back into the soil. Aeration in the spring on cool season grass just opens up the soil to allow any weeds to germinate (and destroys any pre-emergent barrier you had applied) and can cause the soil to lose moisture more easily as the days are getting warmer until the plugs break up and re-fill the holes. |
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Originally Posted By TinSpinner: That looks like goose grass, AKA catchweed bedstraw. Mixed in with desirable ornamentals hand removal is about all you can do without damaging what you want to keep. It is an annual that sprouts from seeds every year so a pre-emergent like Dimension could help if you get it down before the seeds germinate in the spring. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By TinSpinner: Originally Posted By SWIRE: How do I get rid of this weed without killing off good plants? It comes up from the ground but then grows in between and over everything. I can pull it out by hand easy enough but it is everywhere and I can't get all of it. The weed has fibers all over it that will cause it to stick to clothing and other things. Pretty sure that is how it populates itself. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed2_JPG-3189526.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed1_JPG-3189525.jpg That looks like goose grass, AKA catchweed bedstraw. Mixed in with desirable ornamentals hand removal is about all you can do without damaging what you want to keep. It is an annual that sprouts from seeds every year so a pre-emergent like Dimension could help if you get it down before the seeds germinate in the spring. Hand removal will be a time consuming task. It is everywhere in the yard, flower beds, and gardens. Does it need to be removed as well or is pulling it out and leaving it on the ground this time of year good enough? |
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Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
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Originally Posted By SWIRE: Hand removal will be a time consuming task. It is everywhere in the yard, flower beds, and gardens. Does it need to be removed as well or is pulling it out and leaving it on the ground this time of year good enough? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By SWIRE: Originally Posted By TinSpinner: Originally Posted By SWIRE: How do I get rid of this weed without killing off good plants? It comes up from the ground but then grows in between and over everything. I can pull it out by hand easy enough but it is everywhere and I can't get all of it. The weed has fibers all over it that will cause it to stick to clothing and other things. Pretty sure that is how it populates itself. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed2_JPG-3189526.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed1_JPG-3189525.jpg That looks like goose grass, AKA catchweed bedstraw. Mixed in with desirable ornamentals hand removal is about all you can do without damaging what you want to keep. It is an annual that sprouts from seeds every year so a pre-emergent like Dimension could help if you get it down before the seeds germinate in the spring. Hand removal will be a time consuming task. It is everywhere in the yard, flower beds, and gardens. Does it need to be removed as well or is pulling it out and leaving it on the ground this time of year good enough? If you leave it on the ground you are helping it to distribute seeds. I would remove it to help interrupt the cycle. What is in the yard can be controlled with a selective herbicide that your grass is tolerant to, unfortunately though your garden and ornamentals can't tolerate much for herbicides. |
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Originally Posted By TinSpinner: If you leave it on the ground you are helping it to distribute seeds. I would remove it to help interrupt the cycle. What is in the yard can be controlled with a selective herbicide that your grass is tolerant to, unfortunately though your garden and ornamentals can't tolerate much for herbicides. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By TinSpinner: Originally Posted By SWIRE: Originally Posted By TinSpinner: Originally Posted By SWIRE: How do I get rid of this weed without killing off good plants? It comes up from the ground but then grows in between and over everything. I can pull it out by hand easy enough but it is everywhere and I can't get all of it. The weed has fibers all over it that will cause it to stick to clothing and other things. Pretty sure that is how it populates itself. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed2_JPG-3189526.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed1_JPG-3189525.jpg That looks like goose grass, AKA catchweed bedstraw. Mixed in with desirable ornamentals hand removal is about all you can do without damaging what you want to keep. It is an annual that sprouts from seeds every year so a pre-emergent like Dimension could help if you get it down before the seeds germinate in the spring. Hand removal will be a time consuming task. It is everywhere in the yard, flower beds, and gardens. Does it need to be removed as well or is pulling it out and leaving it on the ground this time of year good enough? If you leave it on the ground you are helping it to distribute seeds. I would remove it to help interrupt the cycle. What is in the yard can be controlled with a selective herbicide that your grass is tolerant to, unfortunately though your garden and ornamentals can't tolerate much for herbicides. Does it have seeds now or later in the year? Everything here just started the spring growth spurt. The perennial areas are the worst as I don't touch it with any type of herbicide and typically don't weed the area much. Most of the garden area is perenialls. Are there seeds on these already or do they need to flower and then develop the seeds? Previous years I just pulled it up and left it...clearly that has not been effective. |
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Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
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Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By SWIRE: How do I get rid of this weed without killing off good plants? It comes up from the ground but then grows in between and over everything. I can pull it out by hand easy enough but it is everywhere and I can't get all of it. The weed has fibers all over it that will cause it to stick to clothing and other things. Pretty sure that is how it populates itself. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed2_JPG-3189526.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed1_JPG-3189525.jpg View Quote That's called Cleavers. I'm making medicine out of it today. I expect 2,4-D will get it, but I've never tried to kill it. I will look. ETA: Oh...it's in a flower bed. Shoot. I don't know anything you can use to overspray ornamentals that will take out Cleavers. Look for the little spiny balls (they're really small) on the plants. It is a spring annual so it flowers and seeds very quickly, then dies with the heat. But it leaves the brown, ugly vines all over everything. Pre-emergent in the fall and early spring are your best bets to stop it. But that won't be effective THIS year. That'll be for next year. Going back to read the comments. You may already have gotten help. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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@SWIRE
You're going to have to pull it by hand this year. As you clear an area, sprinkle Preen all over your flower beds. (Try not to put it ON the ornamental plants, except for the vinca. You can't kill that so don't worry. Sprinkle away.) You will need to reapply Preen every three months. Toss the cleavers in a pile, then pick it up and put it in the trash. It smooshes down much smaller than it seems like it would. It kind of collapses. FYI, this is not in fact goosegrass. That's something else, and is a good reason to use scientific names, cuz regionally the names really vary. But those scientific names can be really offputting. If you type in "Cleavers" you will normally get this plant, though. It grows pretty much everywhere around the country as far as I know, though maybe not in the deep south or southwest--not sure about that. If @TheStig doesn't know it as a weed, maybe it doesn't grow down there. Since you have mixed perennial beds, you should absolutely read the label HERE and avoid anything it says you should avoid. It is my experience that NO granular pre-emergent herbicide is labeled for use around hydrangea (at least, it wasn't last time I looked) so I just stay back a little, away from the roots. Pre-emergent is the key to low-maintenance perennial beds. In GRASS, you can use 2,4-D and/or other broadleaf herbicides. But not in your landscape beds. Unfortunately there is no selective herbicide that will get just the plants you want gone. We all want that, but it doesn't exist. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
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Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By SWIRE: I wasn't sure if it would be ok to use around perennials but it looks ok for what I have. I will pull it or what I can and then put Preen down. View Quote So the seeds that get left from this year (and some from previous years, cuz that's how seeds roll, yaknow?) will lie there until winter. Then they will germinate either in late fall or (more likely) early spring. So it's important, in the fall, to put down a late fall application, and another in, say, late January/early February here. You have to catch them BEFORE they germinate. FYI I usually see Ginormous containers of PREEN at Sam's this time of year. Much cheaper than going to Lowe's or HD. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By SWIRE: I wasn't sure if it would be ok to use around perennials but it looks ok for what I have. I will pull it or what I can and then put Preen down. View Quote You do also have chickweed in there, and of course a dandelion. Tis the season. Pre-emergent won't stop a second-year dandelion, but will stop the seeds of new ones. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By TheStig: Update on the new yard(s). Core aeration is done and have been maintaining the front yard at .4". Has a long way to go until it's as nice looking as my previous yard but will get there. I will be sand leveling once we are well into the summer months and past the rainy season. https://i.imgur.com/mR7KH1a.jpeg Shot of the masonry work we had done for the flower bed edging. Still need to get a planter for the pedestal and some flowers to add a bit of color. https://i.imgur.com/c80tBAa.jpeg Close up of a dwarf Japanese maple I planted about a month ago. https://i.imgur.com/0rNtZ48.jpeg The back is waking up nicely as well especially with the help of the added nitrogen apps courtesy of my GSD. https://i.imgur.com/Roq9Ujp.jpeg Same guys that did the flower bed masonry also built us a little outdoor kitchen. https://i.imgur.com/jrKq34T.jpeg Of course no new construction home is complete without builder trash in your yard. My reel mower found this rebar left over while scalping from what I presume was a temporary power meter grounding stake. Luckily the greenskeeper that services my mower was able to bend the reel blade back but still had to buy a new bedknife. That was not a fun day. https://i.imgur.com/WtdFp5x.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/UkkRSmp.jpeg And here's a before and after of my elderly mother's back yard whom purchased the property next door. First pic is from March and second is today. Celsius + Sertay app plus some hand pulling and it's starting to look halfway decent. https://i.imgur.com/lSgLYxl.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/mNXtJx4.jpeg View Quote I think your mom is lucky to have her own personal greenskeeper. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: @SWIRE You're going to have to pull it by hand this year. As you clear an area, sprinkle Preen all over your flower beds. (Try not to put it ON the ornamental plants, except for the vinca. You can't kill that so don't worry. Sprinkle away.) You will need to reapply Preen every three months. Toss the cleavers in a pile, then pick it up and put it in the trash. It smooshes down much smaller than it seems like it would. It kind of collapses. FYI, this is not in fact goosegrass. That's something else, and is a good reason to use scientific names, cuz regionally the names really vary. But those scientific names can be really offputting. If you type in "Cleavers" you will normally get this plant, though. It grows pretty much everywhere around the country as far as I know, though maybe not in the deep south or southwest--not sure about that. If @TheStig doesn't know it as a weed, maybe it doesn't grow down there. Since you have mixed perennial beds, you should absolutely read the label HERE and avoid anything it says you should avoid. It is my experience that NO granular pre-emergent herbicide is labeled for use around hydrangea (at least, it wasn't last time I looked) so I just stay back a little, away from the roots. Pre-emergent is the key to low-maintenance perennial beds. In GRASS, you can use 2,4-D and/or other broadleaf herbicides. But not in your landscape beds. Unfortunately there is no selective herbicide that will get just the plants you want gone. We all want that, but it doesn't exist. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: @SWIRE You're going to have to pull it by hand this year. As you clear an area, sprinkle Preen all over your flower beds. (Try not to put it ON the ornamental plants, except for the vinca. You can't kill that so don't worry. Sprinkle away.) You will need to reapply Preen every three months. Toss the cleavers in a pile, then pick it up and put it in the trash. It smooshes down much smaller than it seems like it would. It kind of collapses. FYI, this is not in fact goosegrass. That's something else, and is a good reason to use scientific names, cuz regionally the names really vary. But those scientific names can be really offputting. If you type in "Cleavers" you will normally get this plant, though. It grows pretty much everywhere around the country as far as I know, though maybe not in the deep south or southwest--not sure about that. If @TheStig doesn't know it as a weed, maybe it doesn't grow down there. Since you have mixed perennial beds, you should absolutely read the label HERE and avoid anything it says you should avoid. It is my experience that NO granular pre-emergent herbicide is labeled for use around hydrangea (at least, it wasn't last time I looked) so I just stay back a little, away from the roots. Pre-emergent is the key to low-maintenance perennial beds. In GRASS, you can use 2,4-D and/or other broadleaf herbicides. But not in your landscape beds. Unfortunately there is no selective herbicide that will get just the plants you want gone. We all want that, but it doesn't exist. You are right about the plant names being somewhat regional, goosegrass is a common name for that plant here as is catchweed or bedstraw like I mentioned. For example: Galium aparine Common Name(s): Catchweed Bedstraw Cleavers Goosegrass Stickyweed Sticky willy Velcro plant https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/galium-aparine/ I've heard of medicinal uses for it but more familiar with it's use in cheese making. All that's fine if you are trying to cultivate it for those uses but it's a nuisance otherwise. |
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Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By TinSpinner: You are right about the plant names being somewhat regional, goosegrass is a common name for that plant here as is catchweed or bedstraw like I mentioned. For example: https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/galium-aparine/ I've heard of medicinal uses for it but more familiar with it's use in cheese making. All that's fine if you are trying to cultivate it for those uses but it's a nuisance otherwise. View Quote Yup, I kill it for my clients. But I use it at my house. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
I'm looking forward to what others reply with, but where I live it is all clay under a thin top layer. Standing water is a thing for my "level" parts of my yard. There aren't many places that are level, but it is the solid clay under it that holds the water so well in my yard.
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Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
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Originally Posted By SWIRE: I'm getting standing water in my yard from my sprinklers and this is after I core aerated it this spring, added some pelletized gypsum, added sand, and then ran a drag over it. This is how many holes I made with the aerator. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/backyard_aerated2-3183435.jpg This was taken while running the sprinkler, so it should be wet but I don't understand how there is standing water just from the sprinklers after aerating it the way I did. Even an hour after turning off the sprinklers the ground makes a squishing noise as I walk on it. At this point is liquid Air8 needed? More core aeration? Top dressing with better quality soil since I have a lot of clay? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/surface_water_JPG-3195164.jpg View Quote How long are you running the sprinklers for? You may need to set them up to cycle and soak. Run the sprinklers for a few min then let the water soak into the ground a set amount of time then rinse and repeat until you get the total amount of water down you want. I do this in my yard with my Rachio irrigation controller automatically which makes it dummy-proof but still needs fine tuning. It's mostly a trial and error thing where you'll need to see how long each zone takes to saturate the ground to the point you start observing water run-off. The goal being you only water that zone a limited time before you start observing water run-off or pooling then stop the zone and let it soak in 15/20/45 minutes or however long it takes for your soil, then start up the zone again. If you haven't already, it'd be a good idea to do what's referred to as a "tuna-can test" (a quick youtube search will come up with some videos on how to do it) - basically you want to measure how long it takes for each sprinkler zone to put down a measured amount of water then from that you can determine how long each zone should run based on what you are watering and how much water it needs. Hope this helps! ETA: There could also just be dips or grading issues in the yard as well which are more difficult to resolve. That could require re-grading or plumbing in drainage like catch basins or a french drain. |
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My main goal at this point is to get new grass seed to germinate and the baby grass to grow. If you look closely you can see the baby grass starting to up in the bare spots. I've done all I can to regrade, amend the soil, and aerate up to now. Standing water isn't deal breaking while trying to get the grass to germinate but once it is growing well I know the problem will continue. I bought a pull behind core aerator and will keep using it but clearly there is something else needed in the soil to get the water water to drain.
The sprinklers are manual at this point. I fire up a generator at the creek and just run them for hours at time. That day it had run about an hour when I took the picture. Not sure how much water was put down. That area would be covered by 1 sprinkler head that shoots out a 40' arc of water. |
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Originally Posted By SWIRE: My main goal at this point is to get new grass seed to germinate and the baby grass to grow. If you look closely you can see the baby grass starting to up in the bare spots. I've done all I can to regrade, amend the soil, and aerate up to now. Standing water isn't deal breaking while trying to get the grass to germinate but once it is growing well I know the problem will continue. I bought a pull behind core aerator and will keep using it but clearly there is something else needed in the soil to get the water water to drain. The sprinklers are manual at this point. I fire up a generator at the creek and just run them for hours at time. That day it had run about an hour when I took the picture. Not sure how much water was put down. That area would be covered by 1 sprinkler head that shoots out a 40' arc of water. View Quote Gotchya. I would still probably water in shorter intervals with some soaking time in between. Leaving it on for the full hour is just saturating the top of the soil and not letting it soak in. Clay takes much longer to soak up water but it does hold water remarkably well. While it's not the exact same as my in-ground irrigation, the premise is still relevant. We have clay soil here and I only run my sprinklers in 5-10 min intervals max at a time with about a 30 min soak time. It's just the nature of clay soils and the only way to really change soil profile will be over a long period of time with frequent soil amendments. |
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You are going to need to add organic material and possibly gypsum and it will be an ongoing thing. Sand can become counter productive in clay.
Here us a little read i found. https://extension.oregonstate.edu/news/diamonds-clay-soils-are-forever#:~:text=%E2%80%9CNo%20amount%20of%20sand%20added,as%20the%20potter Explaining why a soil test is needed to figure out if gypsum will actually work on your soil chemistry. Stop Applying Gypsum For Clay Soil & Lawns - Lawn Care How To |
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Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By SWIRE: You need any more? My crop of Cleavers is doing great! I've been pulling some out as I have time. This is in a different section of the garden that I haven't gotten to yet. I did pick up a big container of Preen. I'm hoping to get to the weeding phase of beds soon. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/cleavers_JPG-3199948.jpg View Quote Fortunately it has very shallow roots. It will also turn yellow and die back soon cuz we're about to get hot. I know it looks like crap when it dies back, so you have to get it out of there. This season will suck. But next season will be better. If you want stuff even better than Preen, we can talk about that. But Preen is easy and available everywhere. Great price on it at SAM's, for a really big container, too! |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Wanted to see if I could get some assistance from the experts. I overseeded the yard with a mix my local co-op sells started getting some of that up and filling in. However I’ve got a ton of weeds and I don’t know the best course of treatment. Didn’t want to just do a blanket weed/feed type treatment if that wasn’t going to be the best bang for the buck. Was using a treatment service for about a year prior. Decided to go ahead and start taking care of it on my own.
Front Yard Attached File Attached File Back Yard Attached File |
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Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By Gunnie357: Wanted to see if I could get some assistance from the experts. I overseeded the yard with a mix my local co-op sells started getting some of that up and filling in. However I’ve got a ton of weeds and I don’t know the best course of treatment. Didn’t want to just do a blanket weed/feed type treatment if that wasn’t going to be the best bang for the buck. Was using a treatment service for about a year prior. Decided to go ahead and start taking care of it on my own. Front Yard https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/IMG_0693_jpeg-3210066.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/IMG_0692_jpeg-3210068.JPG Back Yardhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/IMG_0687_jpeg-3210072.JPG View Quote Welcome to the Lawn Care thread! So...the back yard appears to have more grass, and fewer broad-leaf weeds, and the front appears to be mostly those light-green weeds. Is that correct? Is the new grass coming up in the front along the street, and also in the back? When you look at it, how much baby grass do you see? How long ago did you seed? Can you get a close-up photo of the new baby grass? If not, that's okay, but will help us see what kind of stand you are getting. Those spring weeds out front are going to turn brown and die as soon as the real heat hits here in about three more weeks. HOWEVER, we don't want to leave you with bare dirt, and depending on when you sowed your seed, we need to be careful what you spray on it. EtA: We expect pics of beautiful dag to be included in all future lawn care posts. (Not really, but just sayin.) |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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@Gunnie357
I've got a question about the back (pic with dag). Did you take that photo today? And if so, how many days has it been since you mowed? NOTE: We don't care when you mowed. I'm just trying to determine what that taller grass is, and how fast it's growing as compared to other grasses in your lawn. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Welcome to the Lawn Care thread! So...the back yard appears to have more grass, and fewer broad-leaf weeds, and the front appears to be mostly those light-green weeds. Is that correct? Is the new grass coming up in the front along the street, and also in the back? When you look at it, how much baby grass do you see? How long ago did you seed? Can you get a close-up photo of the new baby grass? If not, that's okay, but will help us see what kind of stand you are getting. Those spring weeds out front are going to turn brown and die as soon as the real heat hits here in about three more weeks. HOWEVER, we don't want to leave you with bare dirt, and depending on when you sowed your seed, we need to be careful what you spray on it. EtA: We expect pics of beautiful dag to be included in all future lawn care posts. (Not really, but just sayin.) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Originally Posted By Gunnie357: Wanted to see if I could get some assistance from the experts. I overseeded the yard with a mix my local co-op sells started getting some of that up and filling in. However I’ve got a ton of weeds and I don’t know the best course of treatment. Didn’t want to just do a blanket weed/feed type treatment if that wasn’t going to be the best bang for the buck. Was using a treatment service for about a year prior. Decided to go ahead and start taking care of it on my own. Front Yard https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/IMG_0693_jpeg-3210066.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/IMG_0692_jpeg-3210068.JPG Back Yardhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/IMG_0687_jpeg-3210072.JPG Welcome to the Lawn Care thread! So...the back yard appears to have more grass, and fewer broad-leaf weeds, and the front appears to be mostly those light-green weeds. Is that correct? Is the new grass coming up in the front along the street, and also in the back? When you look at it, how much baby grass do you see? How long ago did you seed? Can you get a close-up photo of the new baby grass? If not, that's okay, but will help us see what kind of stand you are getting. Those spring weeds out front are going to turn brown and die as soon as the real heat hits here in about three more weeks. HOWEVER, we don't want to leave you with bare dirt, and depending on when you sowed your seed, we need to be careful what you spray on it. EtA: We expect pics of beautiful dag to be included in all future lawn care posts. (Not really, but just sayin.) Correct with the back better then front, over seeded with a pull behind aerator/spreader that was approximately one month ago. I can probably get some pictures tomorrow, neighbor helped me out and pointed out I was cutting the existing to low and not providing enough protection to the new seed so I turned the deck up quite a bit to help that out. The back seems to have filled in nicely and I may have to reseed the front as a result of my cutting so short. Close up of dag included to stay within rules of thread. Attached File Mowed today but picture was taken prior so let’s say one week. I can take better photos tomorrow that will show more detail. The dog pictures were more for dog pictures than yard pictures. |
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Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By Gunnie357: Correct with the back better then front, over seeded with a pull behind aerator/spreader that was approximately one month ago. I can probably get some pictures tomorrow, neighbor helped me out and pointed out I was cutting the existing to low and not providing enough protection to the new seed so I turned the deck up quite a bit to help that out. The back seems to have filled in nicely and I may have to reseed the front as a result of my cutting so short. Close up of dag included to stay within rules of thread. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/IMG_0688_jpeg-3210086.JPG Mowed today but picture was taken prior so let’s say one week. I can take better photos tomorrow that will show more detail. The dog pictures were more for dog pictures than yard pictures. View Quote Only kidding about the requirement to include the dag, but it's always nice to see such a beautiful pup. Will await your pics, and no hurry. Please @ me so I see it when I first open the forum. Busy time right now and I don't want to miss/ignore you accidentally. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
@Kitties-with-Sigs
Here’s some better photos starting with the front and including the new grass Attached File Attached File Back Attached File Attached File |
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Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By SWIRE: I'm getting standing water in my yard from my sprinklers and this is after I core aerated it this spring, added some pelletized gypsum, added sand, and then ran a drag over it. This is how many holes I made with the aerator. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/backyard_aerated2-3183435.jpg This was taken while running the sprinkler, so it should be wet but I don't understand how there is standing water just from the sprinklers after aerating it the way I did. Even an hour after turning off the sprinklers the ground makes a squishing noise as I walk on it. At this point is liquid Air8 needed? More core aeration? Top dressing with better quality soil since I have a lot of clay? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/surface_water_JPG-3195164.jpg View Quote @SWIRE I saw this, meant to respond, then forgot. You need to do a test. First, take a long screwdriver. Go out there and poke it in the ground in the area where it's wet. See how far it goes in easily. Then go to an area that does NOT have standing water, and poke the screwdriver in the ground. See how far it goes in easily. Farther? Second...if there is some kind of hardpan under part of your yard (or a bit of bedrock or something that is not allowing the water to drain) the screwdriver is not going to reach it. In that case it would be really educational to take a piece of rebar....a relatively long one like, say, 3' (I choose rebar not because it's the best choice, but because it's cheap.) Poke that in the ground in the area that doesn't drain. when you hit something hard, get a hammer and see if you can drive it in. Try that in several spots in that non-draining area. If I were up there, I would pull some cores and see what you've got, but I'm not. Something is under your lawn that doesn't let it drain. Tell me more about the topography. Is everything except this a slope? Is there a slope that drains onto this, and this part if flatter? Tell me about how your property drains and what drains onto it. If you have a serious issue under there, Air-8 is not going to fix that. HOWEVER it might could help. It has worked wonders for a client of mine (did I tell this story?) whose builder basicall raked about 2" of soil on top of a bedrock hill, then laid sod over it. It was a mucky mess, and Air-8 turned it into a lush lawn. Air-8 is cheap and easy to apply, so not saying you shouldn't use it. Won't hurt anything. BUT...it would be good to do some investigating and see what's the reason that one area isn't draining. ETA: Before I forget... I highly recommend topdressing with COMPOST, not sand. Yes, golf courses use sand, but you don't have that kind of high-maintenance setup, and the understanding of how layers of sand combine with layers of soil and layers of thatch to create serious issues in lawns is....complicated. Can I go into that? Yes, but I'm long-winded enough and really I don't think it's necessary to elaborate on that cuz compost is a better option. Compost, just like it helps gardens, will help the soil in your lawn. There is nothing inherently wrong with clay. It is the most naturally nutrient rich soil because the particles are small and therefore there is more surface area to hold electrical charges, which is what hangs onto minerals, etc. But sometimes it holds too much water when it shouldn't, and doesn't absorb when it should. Compost is your friend. A bit of humic acid on there wouldn't hurt either, but don't worry about that yet. When you fertilize next time, see if you can find some Earthworks 8-2-2. It's chicken poo. Between the compost and the poo, what I'm after is putting some carbon in your soil to mix in with the clay and give you more space in there. Carbon and humic structures in the soil are very good things. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By Gunnie357: @Kitties-with-Sigs Here’s some better photos starting with the front and including the new grass https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/IMG_0696_jpeg-3210285.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/IMG_0697_jpeg-3210274.JPG Back https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/IMG_0698_jpeg-3210284.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/IMG_0699_jpeg-3210279.JPG View Quote Allrighty then. @Gunnie357 let's talk about your grass. *First let's talk a bit about your overall goals. *Then let's talk about what you HAVE, and maybe what happened this spring when you overseeded, what worked, and what did not. *Then let's talk about how to get what you want and the possible steps to move toward that. Get a beer. I can never do this in a few words. I will try to put my questions that need answers in RED, since I'm writing a book here and the questions get buried. Goals: So off the forum, you told me that what you WANT is something that looks like grass, and is green. You are not interested in the perfect lawn. You want something that looks reasonable from a distance. You don't honestly care if there are mixed grasses in there. HOWEVER, we did not talk about whether you care if part of the yard turns brown at first frost and stays brown until May. Do you care about that? You MAY care about that, and if so, that's going to require more intervention. We also did not talk about what you are willing to do to get what you want. You did say that you have a sprayer. I know you are smart enough to learn how to mix chems and use the sprayer correctly. You said there are offers from family (mostly farmers) to provide some chems that might be of help. Let's look at what you HAVE PIC 1: This first pic is out front. I think you said that you seeded this spring, right? That area appears to be MOSTLY winter annual broadleaf weeds. There will be hot weather broadleaf weeds making their appearance shortly. I am guessing the following: ** in late winter this front area was mostly brown or bare, you seeded over that, before or about the time lots of spring weeds started popping up. **You seeded with some mix you got at the store. (I can't remember what you said.) **You did not water. You counted on spring rain to do that. Did you put down straw? Or use the existing brown plant material to hold the seed in place (this is not a bad option DEPENDING) You can correct whatever is wrong with my assumptions. You may or may not know the answer to this, but the yellow arrow is pointing to some turfgrass. This grass is turf-type tall fescue. It LOOKS like it was there last year and is well established. Is that correct? OR...is this NEW grass you got from the seeding? Pic 2, ALSO out front: In this photo, the RED arrows are pointing to what I believe is baby crabgrass. The yellow arrow is pointing to wild Bermudagrass (spawn from Hell. (Sorry @TheStig) ) I mention these two things because all those little weeds? Those are EASY to deal with. The crabgrass is more challenging. The Bermudagrass is what will make huge brown patches in your lawn from October 1 to sometime in May each year. [EDUCATIONAL BREAK: ] What you are trying to grow in Southern Indiana, is Cool Season Grass. More particularly you are trying to grow FESCUE. Ideally that would be TTTF (Turf-Type Tall Fescue) but in your instance, it's probably not going to be that, and that's not what I'm going to recommend unless I hear different from you. That Bermudagrass? That's what @TheStig has all over his lawn. It's BEAUTIFUL. Cuz where he lives, if it goes dormant at all, it doesn't stay dormant for long. Which means it stays green year-round for him. Here, where we get frost, it goes dormant and turns brown. You ever drive by a golf course in winter and see those brown fairways bordered by green rough? Those fairways are dormant BERMUDAGRASS. *MOST PEOPLE in your area want their lawn to stay somewhat green year-round. I'm assuming you do too. So here in the Lawn Care Thread, we have the best of both worlds. I grow cool season grass and I KILL Bermudagrass (if I can.) People like TheStig...he grows Bermudagrass and kills any fescue that dares to come up in his lawn. [ /EDUCATIONAL BREAK ] Now then.... Pic 3 In the BACK you have a better stand of grass. This is not what we consider turfgrass, but is clumping fescue. (Nothing WRONG with clumping fescue as a rule, unless you are trying to grow something else.) Notice how you have big clumps of wide-blade grass, interspersed with other stuff. In this photo, the arrow is pointing to small broadleaf weeds that appear to be interspersed pretty much throughout the lawn, between the clumps. Is that a correct assessment of your back yard? So to keep this post from being sixteen miles long, I'm going to break here. I will give you a chance to answer the questions and make sure I have it correct, and ALSO...be sure to let me know the following: 1-Is the front generally more important than the back, as far as being a beautiful frame for your house? (I am guessing so, but don't know for sure.) NOTE: YOU HAVE A BIG DOG. THE BACK YARD IS NOT JUST FOR FAMILY BUT IS FOR THE DOG. THIS MATTERS IN WHAT I WILL SUGGEST. 2-Do you hate lawn care? I ask this because looking at your cute property (which I saw via text) and knowing only a small bit about you, I think you like things neat and tidy, and you want your home to look nice. BUT....do you LIKE mowing and taking care of the grass/landscape? Or is it something you do because it has to be done? Do you want it over as quick as you can make it happen? Or do you enjoy being out there, working in your lawn? 3-This question is about a-budget and b- your wishes. Do you necessarily want to do this yourself? (you certainly can do it. I'm trying to judge how much energy you have for it, and want to put into it) Or would you hire a company (not Truegreen, so not the absolute cheapest) to take care of the front ONLY? Cuz I think you need one thing in the front, and another in the back. More on that later. A LOT of people COULD hire a company but just don't want to. Others...they would rather do the work and save that money. Are you: "I hate this lawn care and will pay to not have to do it." Or "I don't HATE this, but I have only so much time and absolutely cannot devote any more." Or "I could see this becoming a hobby." 4-If I say to you, "You need to order X chemical, read the label and learn to spray it (I will offer resources) how do you feel about that? This is WAY more involved than buying a bag of weed & feed and dumping it on the lawn. ONCE YOU ESTABLISH SOME ACTUAL GRASS, weed & feed becomes more of a viable solution. But right now, you don't have that grass. We have to figure out the best program for you, depending on what you are willing and able to do, and what you WANT. Suggestions to follow, depending on your answers. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By SWIRE: I will answer these quick as I could write pages about what is going on. Everything a slope from the house to the creek. In the middle of the yard, about 150 feet from where the picture was taken a stone wall about 3ft tall was built and some type of fill dirt brought in. It leveled the area at the fire pit and gardens. I don't think the area of the yard pictured is fill or much of it but that is right where it starts to transition to level until it gets to the rock wall. Clay was brought in as fill dirt as the gardens have always been a nightmare where 80-90% of the perennials that I plant will die a year or two in. The ground will develop large cracks and become hard as rock during summer if I do not constantly water it. The ground when soaking wet is easy to push in the metal spike for a plastic electric fence post (basically the size of a screw driver); however, let that soaked ground dry for 2 days it takes both hands and my legs to pull that metal spike back out. I do this routinely as I have been watering the lawn to the my over seeded grass growing. When dry you might push a screw driver in an inch before it stops. Even using a shovel, in the middle of summer I am chipping away at the dirt 1 inch at a time trying to dig thee hold. The gardens I have been throwing compost and last year wood chips on it every year. The wood chips did a great job at softening the garden soil. That's why in my property thread I went to town adding inches of compost and then several inches of wood chips to my vegetable bed. I plan on adding more the rest of the beds this year. But I can't cover the lawn in woodchips. I also don't have a top dressing machine which is what I need for either sand or compost. It would around an acre, 40,000 sq ft, of lawn that I would want to fix. About 3 ft down I have hit vary large slabs of rock. Not sure if it is bedrock but there is a very heavy rock layer at 3 ft. The over seeded grass is coming in pretty well. It is probably too soon but I hit it with weed killer just because some areas of the grass would be getting choked out soon from large broadleaf weeds so I had to do something. I will have to keep watering the grass all summer long though or it will quickly brown and die. Here is a good picture from page 16 of my thread. This is when I ran a 3" conduit from the house to the middle of the yard. It is about 100ft away from the stone wall. Those are the slabs of rocks that I started pulling out about 30 inches into the ground. You can sort of tell the soil composition is a few inches of top soil and then just clay. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/area_i_hit_bedrock_with_trencher-1387733.jpg That is as far as I could dig down as there is rock under and next to the conduit. Not sure if it is bedrock but my tractor and backhoe wasn't pulling any more of it out. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/spliced_pvc-1387732.jpg This the garden area and closer to where the fill was brought in, maybe 60-75 ft from the stone wall. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/garden_soil1-1387771.jpg View Quote Okay. So...HOW MUCH AREA are we talking about with the problem soil? By this I mean: 1-The soil that holds too much water, then dries out and cracks? 2-The soil that does not drain? Since I don't really know the lay of your land (and without visuals, the description doesn't help me understand much) Basically, I don't have any idea what your property looks like, so don't know what is actually possible. Also...you have a tractor. What are you willing/able to do to amend it? Bedrock at 3' is not great, but that's workable. You can still grow good grass and get decent drainage with that, since it is not your entire property. ETA: Because I don't know the layout of your property, I don't know whether you could bring in several loads of soil, till it in and basically regrade/reshape that area while amending the soil. I've seen you rebuild a bridge and a creek bed, so I do not underestimate what you are willing/able to do. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Allrighty then. @Gunnie357 let's talk about your grass. *First let's talk a bit about your overall goals. *Then let's talk about what you HAVE, and maybe what happened this spring when you overseeded, what worked, and what did not. *Then let's talk about how to get what you want and the possible steps to move toward that. Get a beer. I can never do this in a few words. I will try to put my questions that need answers in RED, since I'm writing a book here and the questions get buried. Goals: So off the forum, you told me that what you WANT is something that looks like grass, and is green. You are not interested in the perfect lawn. You want something that looks reasonable from a distance. You don't honestly care if there are mixed grasses in there. HOWEVER, we did not talk about whether you care if part of the yard turns brown at first frost and stays brown until May. Do you care about that? You MAY care about that, and if so, that's going to require more intervention. We also did not talk about what you are willing to do to get what you want. You did say that you have a sprayer. I know you are smart enough to learn how to mix chems and use the sprayer correctly. You said there are offers from family (mostly farmers) to provide some chems that might be of help. Let's look at what you HAVE PIC 1: This first pic is out front. I think you said that you seeded this spring, right? That area appears to be MOSTLY winter annual broadleaf weeds. There will be hot weather broadleaf weeds making their appearance shortly. I am guessing the following: ** in late winter this front area was mostly brown or bare, you seeded over that, before or about the time lots of spring weeds started popping up. **You seeded with some mix you got at the store. (I can't remember what you said.) **You did not water. You counted on spring rain to do that. Did you put down straw? Or use the existing brown plant material to hold the seed in place (this is not a bad option DEPENDING) You can correct whatever is wrong with my assumptions. You may or may not know the answer to this, but the yellow arrow is pointing to some turfgrass. This grass is turf-type tall fescue. It LOOKS like it was there last year and is well established. Is that correct? OR...is this NEW grass you got from the seeding? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/118038/Gunnie_lawn_1_new_grass-3214501.jpg Pic 2, ALSO out front: In this photo, the RED arrows are pointing to what I believe is baby crabgrass. The yellow arrow is pointing to wild Bermudagrass (spawn from Hell. (Sorry @TheStig) ) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/118038/Gunnie_lawn_2_crabgrass_and_bermuda-3214504.jpg I mention these two things because all those little weeds? Those are EASY to deal with. The crabgrass is more challenging. The Bermudagrass is what will make huge brown patches in your lawn from October 1 to sometime in May each year. [EDUCATIONAL BREAK: ] What you are trying to grow in Southern Indiana, is Cool Season Grass. More particularly you are trying to grow FESCUE. Ideally that would be TTTF (Turf-Type Tall Fescue) but in your instance, it's probably not going to be that, and that's not what I'm going to recommend unless I hear different from you. That Bermudagrass? That's what @TheStig has all over his lawn. It's BEAUTIFUL. Cuz where he lives, if it goes dormant at all, it doesn't stay dormant for long. Which means it stays green year-round for him. Here, where we get frost, it goes dormant and turns brown. You ever drive by a golf course in winter and see those brown fairways bordered by green rough? Those fairways are dormant BERMUDAGRASS. *MOST PEOPLE in your area want their lawn to stay somewhat green year-round. I'm assuming you do too. So here in the Lawn Care Thread, we have the best of both worlds. I grow cool season grass and I KILL Bermudagrass (if I can.) People like TheStig...he grows Bermudagrass and kills any fescue that dares to come up in his lawn. [ /EDUCATIONAL BREAK ] Now then.... Pic 3 In the BACK you have a better stand of grass. This is not what we consider turfgrass, but is clumping fescue. (Nothing WRONG with clumping fescue as a rule, unless you are trying to grow something else.) Notice how you have big clumps of wide-blade grass, interspersed with other stuff. In this photo, the arrow is pointing to small broadleaf weeds that appear to be interspersed pretty much throughout the lawn, between the clumps. Is that a correct assessment of your back yard? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/118038/Gunnie_lawn_4_small_weeds_back-3214530.jpg So to keep this post from being sixteen miles long, I'm going to break here. I will give you a chance to answer the questions and make sure I have it correct, and ALSO...be sure to let me know the following: 1-Is the front generally more important than the back, as far as being a beautiful frame for your house? (I am guessing so, but don't know for sure.) NOTE: YOU HAVE A BIG DOG. THE BACK YARD IS NOT JUST FOR FAMILY BUT IS FOR THE DOG. THIS MATTERS IN WHAT I WILL SUGGEST. 2-Do you hate lawn care? I ask this because looking at your cute property (which I saw via text) and knowing only a small bit about you, I think you like things neat and tidy, and you want your home to look nice. BUT....do you LIKE mowing and taking care of the grass/landscape? Or is it something you do because it has to be done? Do you want it over as quick as you can make it happen? Or do you enjoy being out there, working in your lawn? 3-This question is about a-budget and b- your wishes. Do you necessarily want to do this yourself? (you certainly can do it. I'm trying to judge how much energy you have for it, and want to put into it) Or would you hire a company (not Truegreen, so not the absolute cheapest) to take care of the front ONLY? Cuz I think you need one thing in the front, and another in the back. More on that later. A LOT of people COULD hire a company but just don't want to. Others...they would rather do the work and save that money. Are you: "I hate this lawn care and will pay to not have to do it." Or "I don't HATE this, but I have only so much time and absolutely cannot devote any more." Or "I could see this becoming a hobby." 4-If I say to you, "You need to order X chemical, read the label and learn to spray it (I will offer resources) how do you feel about that? This is WAY more involved than buying a bag of weed & feed and dumping it on the lawn. ONCE YOU ESTABLISH SOME ACTUAL GRASS, weed & feed becomes more of a viable solution. But right now, you don't have that grass. We have to figure out the best program for you, depending on what you are willing and able to do, and what you WANT. Suggestions to follow, depending on your answers. View Quote Front is correct I believe that’s going to be a mix of last years grass and this years seed. If that is fescue I would say that is predominantly what I have. I overseeded early and did not lay down straw hoping the current ground cover would provide some protection the front at that time being an afterthought as I was mostly over seeding the back and had some left. I didn’t water thinking the spring rains would help. I had quite a bit of bare in the back because of construction and those filled in nicely with the new which blended well, I believe your estimation is correct. I would much rather stay with something that will be green and nice longer rather then really nice a couple months then dormant. The front is important because it is the first thing seen the rear however would take precedence because that’s where the family including dog stay and enjoy time. That said dog is kept inside but spends a lot of time out when it’s nice for her. As for time taken I enjoy doing yard work and don’t mind to keep up with it my son enjoys working in the yard though he’s little it makes him happy to help which motivates it to be done more. That said I do not have a desire to mow every single day or get out there with scissors to manicure. In other words I’ll happily treat the yard and spend time keeping it up but don’t want golf course level daily maintenance. I do not wish to out source it and would rather devote some time to making it my own. I can I believe follow the directions and apply the chemicals as directed and do not mind to do so. The only stipulation being I don’t wish to apply something that is going to damage existing ornamentals easily or that would be hazardous to children or pets. ETA: the mix was a local store blend they recommend for the area I’ll try and get more particulars |
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Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By Gunnie357: Front is correct I believe that’s going to be a mix of last years grass and this years seed. If that is fescue I would say that is predominantly what I have. I overseeded early and did not lay down straw hoping the current ground cover would provide some protection the front at that time being an afterthought as I was mostly over seeding the back and had some left. I didn’t water thinking the spring rains would help. I had quite a bit of bare in the back because of construction and those filled in nicely with the new which blended well, I believe your estimation is correct. I would much rather stay with something that will be green and nice longer rather then really nice a couple months then dormant. The front is important because it is the first thing seen the rear however would take precedence because that’s where the family including dog stay and enjoy time. That said dog is kept inside but spends a lot of time out when it’s nice for her. As for time taken I enjoy doing yard work and don’t mind to keep up with it my son enjoys working in the yard though he’s little it makes him happy to help which motivates it to be done more. That said I do not have a desire to mow every single day or get out there with scissors to manicure. In other words I’ll happily treat the yard and spend time keeping it up but don’t want golf course level daily maintenance. I do not wish to out source it and would rather devote some time to making it my own. I can I believe follow the directions and apply the chemicals as directed and do not mind to do so. The only stipulation being I don’t wish to apply something that is going to damage existing ornamentals easily or that would be hazardous to children or pets. ETA: the mix was a local store blend they recommend for the area I’ll try and get more particulars View Quote Okay got it. My initial reaction as to your forward progress is somewhat appropriate. I will type that as soon as possible. Not sure it will be tonight but maybe, if late supper goes okay. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Okay. So...HOW MUCH AREA are we talking about with the problem soil? By this I mean: 1-The soil that holds too much water, then dries out and cracks? 2-The soil that does not drain? Since I don't really know the lay of your land (and without visuals, the description doesn't help me understand much) Basically, I don't have any idea what your property looks like, so don't know what is actually possible. Also...you have a tractor. What are you willing/able to do to amend it? Bedrock at 3' is not great, but that's workable. You can still grow good grass and get decent drainage with that, since it is not your entire property. ETA: Because I don't know the layout of your property, I don't know whether you could bring in several loads of soil, till it in and basically regrade/reshape that area while amending the soil. I've seen you rebuild a bridge and a creek bed, so I do not underestimate what you are willing/able to do. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Originally Posted By SWIRE: I will answer these quick as I could write pages about what is going on. Everything a slope from the house to the creek. In the middle of the yard, about 150 feet from where the picture was taken a stone wall about 3ft tall was built and some type of fill dirt brought in. It leveled the area at the fire pit and gardens. I don't think the area of the yard pictured is fill or much of it but that is right where it starts to transition to level until it gets to the rock wall. Clay was brought in as fill dirt as the gardens have always been a nightmare where 80-90% of the perennials that I plant will die a year or two in. The ground will develop large cracks and become hard as rock during summer if I do not constantly water it. The ground when soaking wet is easy to push in the metal spike for a plastic electric fence post (basically the size of a screw driver); however, let that soaked ground dry for 2 days it takes both hands and my legs to pull that metal spike back out. I do this routinely as I have been watering the lawn to the my over seeded grass growing. When dry you might push a screw driver in an inch before it stops. Even using a shovel, in the middle of summer I am chipping away at the dirt 1 inch at a time trying to dig thee hold. The gardens I have been throwing compost and last year wood chips on it every year. The wood chips did a great job at softening the garden soil. That's why in my property thread I went to town adding inches of compost and then several inches of wood chips to my vegetable bed. I plan on adding more the rest of the beds this year. But I can't cover the lawn in woodchips. I also don't have a top dressing machine which is what I need for either sand or compost. It would around an acre, 40,000 sq ft, of lawn that I would want to fix. About 3 ft down I have hit vary large slabs of rock. Not sure if it is bedrock but there is a very heavy rock layer at 3 ft. The over seeded grass is coming in pretty well. It is probably too soon but I hit it with weed killer just because some areas of the grass would be getting choked out soon from large broadleaf weeds so I had to do something. I will have to keep watering the grass all summer long though or it will quickly brown and die. Here is a good picture from page 16 of my thread. This is when I ran a 3" conduit from the house to the middle of the yard. It is about 100ft away from the stone wall. Those are the slabs of rocks that I started pulling out about 30 inches into the ground. You can sort of tell the soil composition is a few inches of top soil and then just clay. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/area_i_hit_bedrock_with_trencher-1387733.jpg That is as far as I could dig down as there is rock under and next to the conduit. Not sure if it is bedrock but my tractor and backhoe wasn't pulling any more of it out. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/spliced_pvc-1387732.jpg This the garden area and closer to where the fill was brought in, maybe 60-75 ft from the stone wall. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/garden_soil1-1387771.jpg Okay. So...HOW MUCH AREA are we talking about with the problem soil? By this I mean: 1-The soil that holds too much water, then dries out and cracks? 2-The soil that does not drain? Since I don't really know the lay of your land (and without visuals, the description doesn't help me understand much) Basically, I don't have any idea what your property looks like, so don't know what is actually possible. Also...you have a tractor. What are you willing/able to do to amend it? Bedrock at 3' is not great, but that's workable. You can still grow good grass and get decent drainage with that, since it is not your entire property. ETA: Because I don't know the layout of your property, I don't know whether you could bring in several loads of soil, till it in and basically regrade/reshape that area while amending the soil. I've seen you rebuild a bridge and a creek bed, so I do not underestimate what you are willing/able to do. This is a picture of my property that I created for a security camera thread. It works here as there are measurements to show dimensions. The grassy patch in the middle is what I'm concerned with at the moment. Some of it is shaded by trees, there is gardens in part of it, brush/shrubs in part of it, the solar panels...etc. But the general dimensions would be 200 ft wide by 200-225 ft long. From the house to the creek bottom is about a 50 foot drop in elevation. About 8 feet of that drop happens in the first 35 ft behind the house. You can see part of the retaining wall I put in and I'm grading the rest of the dirt to make more of a gentle slope into the yard. Following the center line behind the house where the number 310' is approximately where the stone wall is constructed. That remaining drop in the yard to the top of the stone wall is about 5 feet over the course of 175ft. The last 50 feet is almost flat so a 4% slope on the hill in the yard to the gardens. The red in this picture is grassy areas but it includes things like driveways and parking areas. The yellow outline is the main area I'm concerned with. It includes the gardens but whatever I use on the lawn I will probably use on the garden since I have so many problems with it. The blue is the slope of the hill. It is generally high on the east side and drops to the creek on the west side but there is a slight elevation on the north side that drops heading to the south side, maybe a foot drop from north to south. I do have my tractor. I've been trying to determine if my 3-point hitch works. So far it is a no go but they have added so many hydraulic lines and connectors on it for the bucket and backhoe that I may not have something configure correctly. I've see a 3 point hitch core aerator with curved blades that also swivel. It can go deeper than my little pull behind model. I can also get good compost for around $20 a cubic yard, a triaxle truck will hold about 20 yards and the delivery fee is $200. But without a top dressing machine I will have to dump it over the yard and try to level it with the bucket. I did a little bit of that with some good top soil this year and it worked ok. That was with 6 yards of top soil and it did not go very far. I can also get a 50/50 blend of topsoil and compost but that runs $55 a yard. The new grass is coming in well. Once the weather clears I'll get pictures of it. |
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Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
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Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By SWIRE: This is a picture of my property that I created for a security camera thread. It works here as there are measurements to show dimensions. The grassy patch in the middle is what I'm concerned with at the moment. Some of it is shaded by trees, there is gardens in part of it, brush/shrubs in part of it, the solar panels...etc. But the general dimensions would be 200 ft wide by 200-225 ft long. From the house to the creek bottom is about a 50 foot drop in elevation. About 8 feet of that drop happens in the first 35 ft behind the house. You can see part of the retaining wall I put in and I'm grading the rest of the dirt to make more of a gentle slope into the yard. Following the center line behind the house where the number 310' is approximately where the stone wall is constructed. That remaining drop in the yard to the top of the stone wall is about 5 feet over the course of 175ft. The last 50 feet is almost flat so a 4% slope on the hill in the yard to the gardens. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/property_dimensions-3095572.jpg The red in this picture is grassy areas but it includes things like driveways and parking areas. The yellow outline is the main area I'm concerned with. It includes the gardens but whatever I use on the lawn I will probably use on the garden since I have so many problems with it. The blue is the slope of the hill. It is generally high on the east side and drops to the creek on the west side but there is a slight elevation on the north side that drops heading to the south side, maybe a foot drop from north to south. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/lawn_area2-3214723.jpg I do have my tractor. I've been trying to determine if my 3-point hitch works. So far it is a no go but they have added so many hydraulic lines and connectors on it for the bucket and backhoe that I may not have something configure correctly. I've see a 3 point hitch core aerator with curved blades that also swivel. It can go deeper than my little pull behind model. I can also get good compost for around $20 a cubic yard, a triaxle truck will hold about 20 yards and the delivery fee is $200. But without a top dressing machine I will have to dump it over the yard and try to level it with the bucket. I did a little bit of that with some good top soil this year and it worked ok. That was with 6 yards of top soil and it did not go very far. I can also get a 50/50 blend of topsoil and compost but that runs $55 a yard. The new grass is coming in well. Once the weather clears I'll get pictures of it. View Quote So it appears to me that that spot is holding the water that comes off of your roof, and that's a pretty big roof area. Lots of angles (best I can see). So the big slope is carrying the water down to that more gently-sloped area, and it's holding there. ETA: Reading again, you're also getting some from the neighbor's property, it sounds like. It seems to me that there are two things going on. A drainage slow down AND your soil cold use some help. Do you think some drain tiles might be of help to you--taken to daylight on down the slope toward the creek? Maybe with some surface drains added in the lowest spots. THEN in addition to that, working in compost and trying to gently raise the grade through there a little over time, to get more dirt on top of the hardpan/rocks at the 3' depth. Just thinking out loud. Surface work just doesn't do a lot to actually drain a spot like this. It can help the soil, but what really needs to happen is that water needs to move out of there more quickly so it doesn't pool on the flattest spot you've got. I can't really see or understand where the stone wall is exactly but I'm going to assume it is not acting like a wall to hold the water or slow down its movement? |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
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