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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2015 11:16:21 AM EDT
Anyone own/shoot/familiar with the Armalite AR15s that the CMP used in sniper training years ago? From what I have learned, the Army needed sniper instructors and hit up the CMP. Since the CMP could not have M4s, they bought 40 ARs from Armalite and sent them to the Army Marksmanship Unit for work. The AMU accurized them and put 4x ACOGs on them along with free float handguards (I believe Daniel Defense). After the program was over, the 40 rifles were sold by the CMP for $1200.
http://www.odcmp.org/1205/SDM.asp |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2015 1:23:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Most of the rifles used at the AMU are built by the AMU. Compass Lake Engineering has contracted to make a lot of their barrels. The US Army has no need to buy anything from Armalite to upgrade or rework into a competition/sniper rifle.
At one time Bushmaster made AR-15 competition ready service rifles that were sold through the CMP. My gun club purchased a half-dozen or so for the use of new shooters and juniors who wanted to compete and didn't own rifles of their own. These rifles were marked with the CMP loge on the stocks. Perhaps Armalite did they same thing, I don't know. I doubt any "formerly owned by the AMU" AR-15 rifles or uppers have ever been sold by the CMP. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2015 4:52:28 PM EDT
[#2]
CMP sold HBAR Bushmasters (with carry handles), reportedly (haven't been able to verify independently) Compass Lake prepped rifles, and exactly 40 Armalites. The Armalites were warmed over by AMU, but were not owned or used by AMU. The civilian CMP instructors taught mil shooters due to need, so perhaps the CMP themselves bought the Armalites. They had the CMP and AMU logos on the right side of the mag well.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 1:14:57 AM EDT
[#3]
In 2004 Mr. Charlie Maddox, Chairman for the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and Firearm Safety asked how the CMP could support the USAMU and the Army's Designated Marksman Instructor Mobile Training Teams.
For the next five years the CMP provided Distinguished Riflemen who volunteered their time to train Soldiers. The CMP footed the bill for their tickets, hotels, and gas to Fort Benning and other training sites. The CMP provided 40 Armalite National Match rifles and TA01 ACOGs that the AMU then modified with Daniel Defense M4-12.0 rails and bipods. The CMP provided 77-grain ammo for their instructors and a number of Army students. They provided all this at NO COST to the Army. Volunteers from around the nation came to help us out at forts and camps across the United States. At the end of the five years (when the CMP assumed the Army would fix its manpower and talent problems) the CMP ended the program, got their rifles and scopes back, and sold them. The Armalites were very, very good rifles and did yeoman service. They were never abused and I'm sure are doing fine service today or are stashed as investments in the back of rifle safes. 
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=667655 |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 1:23:14 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol:
Most of the rifles used at the AMU are built by the AMU. Compass Lake Engineering has contracted to make a lot of their barrels. The US Army has no need to buy anything from Armalite to upgrade or rework into a competition/sniper rifle. At one time Bushmaster made AR-15 competition ready service rifles that were sold through the CMP. My gun club purchased a half-dozen or so for the use of new shooters and juniors who wanted to compete and didn't own rifles of their own. These rifles were marked with the CMP loge on the stocks. Perhaps Armalite did they same thing, I don't know. I doubt any "formerly owned by the AMU" AR-15 rifles or uppers have ever been sold by the CMP. 
When I was at ArmaLite we did work with the AMU. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 2:36:32 AM EDT
[#5]
You can always got to CLE and have him build you a service rifle.
Txl |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2015 7:02:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Sinister, THAT'S the kinda stuff I was looking for. I don't have time to read the whole thread now, but I will, and I will save it. Thanks for the posting. Were you involved with the training?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2015 7:03:25 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxLewis:
You can always got to CLE and have him build you a service rifle. Txl While this is true, these 40 Armalites are rare and have some provenance to them. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 9:04:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wakko:
Sinister, THAT'S the kinda stuff I was looking for. I don't have time to read the whole thread now, but I will, and I will save it. Thanks for the posting. Were you involved with the training? I was the USAMU Commander from 2003-2006. The Scout Platoon, 1st Battalion, 15th Infantry, 3rd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division started the ball rolling on the DM Rifle program. Mr. Gene Clark designed the USAMU DM Rifle and recommended the Armalite as Mr. (LTC, Ordnance, retired) Mark Westrom is a retired Distinguished Rifleman and long-time Army Reserve shooter who produces a fine factory NM rifle. We went with an A4 because that's what the 3rd ID had as a base rifle. We specifically designed a mid-length carbine for the 82nd and 101st since they were M4 fleet-pure. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2015 9:14:59 AM EDT
[#9]
That's great information, Sinister, thank you for your reply. Did you manage to get one of the 40?
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Posted: 5/31/2015 10:43:01 AM EDT
[#10]
And to think that the Tax Payers funds all sorts of stupid shit and it has so money to bring back this program. 
http://www.odcmp.org/1205/SDM.asp |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/31/2015 10:44:53 PM EDT
[#11]
Well, I am proud owner of one of these rifles as of today. 8 hour drive, and I'm tired, so forgive my lack of photos for now. I do have some questions about it, but will post them when I post pictures of the rifle. I will put a few rounds in it tomorrow, albeit at only 50 yards, and see how it feels.
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Posted: 5/31/2015 11:01:32 PM EDT
[#12]
how did the 77's match up with the TA01? I have nearly the exact same rifle setup but have only used the 55's
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Posted: 5/31/2015 11:32:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wakko: Well, I am proud owner of one of these rifles as of today. 8 hour drive, and I'm tired, so forgive my lack of photos for now. I do have some questions about it, but will post them when I post pictures of the rifle. I will put a few rounds in it tomorrow, albeit at only 50 yards, and see how it feels. Ooooh. I might be jelly. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/1/2015 11:06:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Gentlemen, I offer you CMP/AMU rifle 2 of 40:
I was only able to put 18 rounds of 67 (IIRC) of JSP through it at 100 yards today, but it picked off the rocks that I was aimin' at. As you can see, the rifle is well used, but appears to be in excellent mechanical condition. ACOG is clear and illuminates, and the trigger is smooth and light. I did forget to weigh it today. It's pretty well balanced for a 20" HBAR. |
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Posted: 6/2/2015 10:59:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wakko:
Gentlemen, I offer you CMP/AMU rifle 2 of 40: As you can see, the rifle is well used, but appears to be in excellent mechanical condition. ACOG is clear and illuminates, and the trigger is smooth and light. I did forget to weigh it today. It's pretty well balanced for a 20" HBAR. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wakko:
Gentlemen, I offer you CMP/AMU rifle 2 of 40: As you can see, the rifle is well used, but appears to be in excellent mechanical condition. ACOG is clear and illuminates, and the trigger is smooth and light. I did forget to weigh it today. It's pretty well balanced for a 20" HBAR. BEAUTY! Here's one in the wild: 
"Gentlemen,
CMP is offering for sale 12 of the CMP SDM AR-15 rifles exclusively to the Military Rifle Instructors. These are the rifles we used at Ft. Benning for the SDM classes the past six years. The rifles were originally built by Armalite and then later rebarreled by the AMU. They are unique because of the CMP and AMU logo on the lower receiver. Rifles come complete with the Trijicon ACOG scope. Price is $1200 plus shipping. The rifles have been inspected and are considered in good shape, with the normal wear and tear on the rifle and scope. Since the rifles have been used extensively since the last rebarreling, they should not be expected to be as accurate as new rifles. I expect more responses than there are rifles. Therefore to make it fair to everyone, 12 names will be randomly drawn from all interested MRIs. If you would like to purchase a rifle, I need your response by midnight, 1 September, 2011. Your response is your commitment to buy if selected in the drawing. Thanks again for all your assistance. Steve Marksmanship Coordinator CMP" |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2015 11:04:15 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister:
I was the USAMU Commander from 2003-2006. The Scout Platoon, 1st Battalion, 15th Infantry, 3rd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division started the ball rolling on the DM Rifle program. Mr. Gene Clark designed the USAMU DM Rifle and recommended the Armalite as Mr. (LTC, Ordnance, retired) Mark Westrom is a retired Distinguished Rifleman and long-time Army Reserve shooter who produces a fine factory NM rifle. We went with an A4 because that's what the 3rd ID had as a base rifle. We specifically designed a mid-length carbine for the 82nd and 101st since they were M4 fleet-pure. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister:
Originally Posted By Wakko:
Sinister, THAT'S the kinda stuff I was looking for. I don't have time to read the whole thread now, but I will, and I will save it. Thanks for the posting. Were you involved with the training? I was the USAMU Commander from 2003-2006. The Scout Platoon, 1st Battalion, 15th Infantry, 3rd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division started the ball rolling on the DM Rifle program. Mr. Gene Clark designed the USAMU DM Rifle and recommended the Armalite as Mr. (LTC, Ordnance, retired) Mark Westrom is a retired Distinguished Rifleman and long-time Army Reserve shooter who produces a fine factory NM rifle. We went with an A4 because that's what the 3rd ID had as a base rifle. We specifically designed a mid-length carbine for the 82nd and 101st since they were M4 fleet-pure. And you put on a great 3-gun match back then. :-) |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2015 5:32:41 PM EDT
[#17]
I spoke to the AMU today and learned that the barrels were replaced every 2500 rounds or so. The reason for the screw on vs. pin on FSB was convenience and flexibility. I was also told that the limiting factor of these rifles is the glass...with better glass it'd be accurate much farther than 600 yards. Wish I knew how to shoot that far!!
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Posted: 6/11/2015 11:59:57 AM EDT
[#18]
A relative of mine went the the AMU SDM course with a similar rifle. It was a 20 inch gun with ACOG.
Problem was when they sent him to Afghanistan they gave him an M14 with a Mil-Dot. So much for consistency. 
Wonderful information all. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:57:01 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister:
I was the USAMU Commander from 2003-2006. The Scout Platoon, 1st Battalion, 15th Infantry, 3rd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division started the ball rolling on the DM Rifle program. Mr. Gene Clark designed the USAMU DM Rifle and recommended the Armalite as Mr. (LTC, Ordnance, retired) Mark Westrom is a retired Distinguished Rifleman and long-time Army Reserve shooter who produces a fine factory NM rifle. We went with an A4 because that's what the 3rd ID had as a base rifle. We specifically designed a mid-length carbine for the 82nd and 101st since they were M4 fleet-pure. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister:
Originally Posted By Wakko:
Sinister, THAT'S the kinda stuff I was looking for. I don't have time to read the whole thread now, but I will, and I will save it. Thanks for the posting. Were you involved with the training? I was the USAMU Commander from 2003-2006. The Scout Platoon, 1st Battalion, 15th Infantry, 3rd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division started the ball rolling on the DM Rifle program. Mr. Gene Clark designed the USAMU DM Rifle and recommended the Armalite as Mr. (LTC, Ordnance, retired) Mark Westrom is a retired Distinguished Rifleman and long-time Army Reserve shooter who produces a fine factory NM rifle. We went with an A4 because that's what the 3rd ID had as a base rifle. We specifically designed a mid-length carbine for the 82nd and 101st since they were M4 fleet-pure. Sir, I had the Pleasure in 2012 to sit down at the USAR picnic at Camp Perry with LTC Westrom (USAR Retired) and talk about this very thing. It was very interesting his views on the system. He too thought that the ACOG, while an excellent piece of glass was a poor choice for this weapon and limited its capabilities especially in the hands of a true and experianced Marksman. I have spoken with and currently have the honor of serving with some very seasoned and experianced marksman on the USAR team. You probably know some of them. ( Norm, Arc, Freeman, Lewis (ret). ) I decided to build a similar rifle and turned into a build that was almost Identical. Although I have a Leupold 3.5-10 that really allows it to drive tacks I use the Acog for most of my shooting now. Below are some pics from the 1000 yard line at Fort Knox. We were shooting from the 3rd story of the conex building. Had quite a bit of hold over for 1000 but were able to get sustained hits on a man sized sillouette (Steel). Fun day in tthe Kentucky sun. Upper is. WOA 20" SDM 1x7 (Fluted under Tube) Front sight base is Screwed on not pinned. Rail/Tube: Daniel Defense12" M4 Lower : LMT with Geissele DM trigger Ammo: Black Hills 77Gr AMU stuff 
It also uses a Harris Bi-Pod Now. Great discussion for a fine rifle concept. cp |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/26/2015 8:15:01 AM EDT
[#20]
Wow, great post...thank you for contributing to the thread. That range is awesome...I wish we had something like that here!
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Posted: 6/26/2015 9:06:21 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wakko:
Gentlemen, I offer you CMP/AMU rifle 2 of 40: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/WakkoGN/CMPArmaliteAR15/IMG_0448.jpg~original http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/WakkoGN/CMPArmaliteAR15/IMG_0449.jpg~original http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/WakkoGN/CMPArmaliteAR15/IMG_0457.jpg~original http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/WakkoGN/CMPArmaliteAR15/IMG_0456.jpg~original I was only able to put 18 rounds of 67 (IIRC) of JSP through it at 100 yards today, but it picked off the rocks that I was aimin' at. As you can see, the rifle is well used, but appears to be in excellent mechanical condition. ACOG is clear and illuminates, and the trigger is smooth and light. I did forget to weigh it today. It's pretty well balanced for a 20" HBAR. 
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Posted: 6/26/2015 9:35:06 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wakko:
Wow, great post...thank you for contributing to the thread. That range is awesome...I wish we had something like that here! Forgot to add (and by no means am I rubbing it in ) But if you look at the range and see the trees on both sides. Its like shooting down a tunnel. Great place to get "No Wind" Zero's all the way out!
cp |
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USA
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Posted: 7/15/2015 9:32:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Thanks for the post and the information all.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/15/2015 10:38:03 PM EDT
[#24]
I took it shooting at the local 200 yard range on Sunday and didn't do all that well with it. I tried 55 grain and 62 grain, and it seemed to like the 62 better, but definitely had much room for improvement on the grouping. It doesn't help that I have absolutely zero training on long range rifle shooting.
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Posted: 7/16/2015 2:40:24 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wakko: I took it shooting at the local 200 yard range on Sunday and didn't do all that well with it. I tried 55 grain and 62 grain, and it seemed to like the 62 better, but definitely had much room for improvement on the grouping. It doesn't help that I have absolutely zero training on long range rifle shooting. Ball ammo? "Well there's your problem!" |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 2:05:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wakko:
I took it shooting at the local 200 yard range on Sunday and didn't do all that well with it. I tried 55 grain and 62 grain, and it seemed to like the 62 better, but definitely had much room for improvement on the grouping. It doesn't help that I have absolutely zero training on long range rifle shooting. Where in Florida are you located? Most of the public ranges in NE Florida only go out to 200 yards but, there are some private ranges that I shoot at that go out to 1000 yards if you want to stretch it out some. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/17/2015 3:23:07 PM EDT
[#27]
South...Palm Beach. 1000 yards? I can't hit crap at 200. :)
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Posted: 7/17/2015 5:23:26 PM EDT
[#28]
What targets were you using?
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/18/2015 4:05:42 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister:
Originally Posted By Wakko:
Gentlemen, I offer you CMP/AMU rifle 2 of 40: As you can see, the rifle is well used, but appears to be in excellent mechanical condition. ACOG is clear and illuminates, and the trigger is smooth and light. I did forget to weigh it today. It's pretty well balanced for a 20" HBAR. BEAUTY! Here's one in the wild: http://i42.tinypic.com/245apdt.jpg "Gentlemen,
CMP is offering for sale 12 of the CMP SDM AR-15 rifles exclusively to the Military Rifle Instructors. These are the rifles we used at Ft. Benning for the SDM classes the past six years. The rifles were originally built by Armalite and then later rebarreled by the AMU. They are unique because of the CMP and AMU logo on the lower receiver. Rifles come complete with the Trijicon ACOG scope. Price is $1200 plus shipping. The rifles have been inspected and are considered in good shape, with the normal wear and tear on the rifle and scope. Since the rifles have been used extensively since the last rebarreling, they should not be expected to be as accurate as new rifles. I expect more responses than there are rifles. Therefore to make it fair to everyone, 12 names will be randomly drawn from all interested MRIs. If you would like to purchase a rifle, I need your response by midnight, 1 September, 2011. Your response is your commitment to buy if selected in the drawing. Thanks again for all your assistance. Steve Marksmanship Coordinator CMP" That was awesome info you provided earlier, but I have to point out one thing. That picture isn't of one in the wild. That is a picture of one build by someone on Snipers Hide several years ago. I remember the build thread. Mainly because that was the direction I wanted to go in as well for my first AR15 originally. He built it after getting to use a real SDM and came to his own opinion that the SDM was the best all around price for performance semi-auto precision rifle in 5.56. I wish I still had my old computer. That thread along with the thread testing the ballistics on the 22lr out to 500yards were booked marked on there from Snipers Hide. Not the same rifle, but if I remember correctly it is from the same thread.  GT-ADCO_SDM by Michael Stroup, on Flickr" />
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Posted: 9/20/2015 10:21:58 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRW: how did the 77's match up with the TA01? I have nearly the exact same rifle setup but have only used the 55's |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 8:20:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MRW]
[#31]
New year bump. Still interested in the 77/TA01 details. Rifle zeroed at 100 yards and the bullet drops are accurate? CMP is allowing scopes this year...
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/2/2016 8:33:03 PM EDT
[#32]
Wish I could help, but I don't know the answer.
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Posted: 1/2/2016 9:15:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MRW]
[#33]
well, I downloaded Strelock and played around for a bit. Here is what I think they are using:
 I get my reloads to duplicate the Black Hills 223 77OTM load at around 2600 fps, so maybe I need to go to the TA01NSN  My rifle, a 20" BCM gov't profile barrel, A1 stock, MI rail, TA01, and now a LaRue trigger, which is a turd by comparison.  |
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