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Posted: 5/26/2015 11:16:21 AM EDT
Anyone own/shoot/familiar with the Armalite AR15s that the CMP used in sniper training years ago? From what I have learned, the Army needed sniper instructors and hit up the CMP. Since the CMP could not have M4s, they bought 40 ARs from Armalite and sent them to the Army Marksmanship Unit for work. The AMU accurized them and put 4x ACOGs on them along with free float handguards (I believe Daniel Defense). After the program was over, the 40 rifles were sold by the CMP for $1200.
http://www.odcmp.org/1205/SDM.asp |
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Most of the rifles used at the AMU are built by the AMU. Compass Lake Engineering has contracted to make a lot of their barrels. The US Army has no need to buy anything from Armalite to upgrade or rework into a competition/sniper rifle.
At one time Bushmaster made AR-15 competition ready service rifles that were sold through the CMP. My gun club purchased a half-dozen or so for the use of new shooters and juniors who wanted to compete and didn't own rifles of their own. These rifles were marked with the CMP loge on the stocks. Perhaps Armalite did they same thing, I don't know. I doubt any "formerly owned by the AMU" AR-15 rifles or uppers have ever been sold by the CMP. |
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CMP sold HBAR Bushmasters (with carry handles), reportedly (haven't been able to verify independently) Compass Lake prepped rifles, and exactly 40 Armalites. The Armalites were warmed over by AMU, but were not owned or used by AMU. The civilian CMP instructors taught mil shooters due to need, so perhaps the CMP themselves bought the Armalites. They had the CMP and AMU logos on the right side of the mag well.
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In 2004 Mr. Charlie Maddox, Chairman for the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and Firearm Safety asked how the CMP could support the USAMU and the Army's Designated Marksman Instructor Mobile Training Teams.
For the next five years the CMP provided Distinguished Riflemen who volunteered their time to train Soldiers. The CMP footed the bill for their tickets, hotels, and gas to Fort Benning and other training sites. The CMP provided 40 Armalite National Match rifles and TA01 ACOGs that the AMU then modified with Daniel Defense M4-12.0 rails and bipods. The CMP provided 77-grain ammo for their instructors and a number of Army students. They provided all this at NO COST to the Army. Volunteers from around the nation came to help us out at forts and camps across the United States. At the end of the five years (when the CMP assumed the Army would fix its manpower and talent problems) the CMP ended the program, got their rifles and scopes back, and sold them. The Armalites were very, very good rifles and did yeoman service. They were never abused and I'm sure are doing fine service today or are stashed as investments in the back of rifle safes. ![]() ![]() http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=667655 |
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QC Doktor...soldier, scholar, funnyman, raconteur
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Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
Most of the rifles used at the AMU are built by the AMU. Compass Lake Engineering has contracted to make a lot of their barrels. The US Army has no need to buy anything from Armalite to upgrade or rework into a competition/sniper rifle. At one time Bushmaster made AR-15 competition ready service rifles that were sold through the CMP. My gun club purchased a half-dozen or so for the use of new shooters and juniors who wanted to compete and didn't own rifles of their own. These rifles were marked with the CMP loge on the stocks. Perhaps Armalite did they same thing, I don't know. I doubt any "formerly owned by the AMU" AR-15 rifles or uppers have ever been sold by the CMP. View Quote ![]() When I was at ArmaLite we did work with the AMU. |
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You can always got to CLE and have him build you a service rifle.
Txl |
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The new racism is anything that might hurt a Democrat politically..
Defund the army. The Free Shit Army, that is... |
Sinister, THAT'S the kinda stuff I was looking for. I don't have time to read the whole thread now, but I will, and I will save it. Thanks for the posting. Were you involved with the training?
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Originally Posted By Wakko:
Sinister, THAT'S the kinda stuff I was looking for. I don't have time to read the whole thread now, but I will, and I will save it. Thanks for the posting. Were you involved with the training? View Quote I was the USAMU Commander from 2003-2006. The Scout Platoon, 1st Battalion, 15th Infantry, 3rd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division started the ball rolling on the DM Rifle program. Mr. Gene Clark designed the USAMU DM Rifle and recommended the Armalite as Mr. (LTC, Ordnance, retired) Mark Westrom is a retired Distinguished Rifleman and long-time Army Reserve shooter who produces a fine factory NM rifle. We went with an A4 because that's what the 3rd ID had as a base rifle. We specifically designed a mid-length carbine for the 82nd and 101st since they were M4 fleet-pure. |
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That's great information, Sinister, thank you for your reply. Did you manage to get one of the 40?
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And to think that the Tax Payers funds all sorts of stupid shit and it has so money to bring back this program. ![]() http://www.odcmp.org/1205/SDM.asp |
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Shoot Quickly ,Accurately and Safely
OBRAMS.org What Have You Done to Defend Your Gun Rights Lately ? |
Well, I am proud owner of one of these rifles as of today. 8 hour drive, and I'm tired, so forgive my lack of photos for now. I do have some questions about it, but will post them when I post pictures of the rifle. I will put a few rounds in it tomorrow, albeit at only 50 yards, and see how it feels.
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how did the 77's match up with the TA01? I have nearly the exact same rifle setup but have only used the 55's
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Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training of the mind to reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classical-education/ |
Originally Posted By Wakko: Well, I am proud owner of one of these rifles as of today. 8 hour drive, and I'm tired, so forgive my lack of photos for now. I do have some questions about it, but will post them when I post pictures of the rifle. I will put a few rounds in it tomorrow, albeit at only 50 yards, and see how it feels. View Quote Ooooh. I might be jelly. |
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Teener Krew 4 Lyfe
86-239 "The .30-06 is never a mistake." - Townsend Whelen FBHO |
Originally Posted By Sinister:
I was the USAMU Commander from 2003-2006. The Scout Platoon, 1st Battalion, 15th Infantry, 3rd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division started the ball rolling on the DM Rifle program. Mr. Gene Clark designed the USAMU DM Rifle and recommended the Armalite as Mr. (LTC, Ordnance, retired) Mark Westrom is a retired Distinguished Rifleman and long-time Army Reserve shooter who produces a fine factory NM rifle. We went with an A4 because that's what the 3rd ID had as a base rifle. We specifically designed a mid-length carbine for the 82nd and 101st since they were M4 fleet-pure. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Sinister:
Originally Posted By Wakko:
Sinister, THAT'S the kinda stuff I was looking for. I don't have time to read the whole thread now, but I will, and I will save it. Thanks for the posting. Were you involved with the training? I was the USAMU Commander from 2003-2006. The Scout Platoon, 1st Battalion, 15th Infantry, 3rd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division started the ball rolling on the DM Rifle program. Mr. Gene Clark designed the USAMU DM Rifle and recommended the Armalite as Mr. (LTC, Ordnance, retired) Mark Westrom is a retired Distinguished Rifleman and long-time Army Reserve shooter who produces a fine factory NM rifle. We went with an A4 because that's what the 3rd ID had as a base rifle. We specifically designed a mid-length carbine for the 82nd and 101st since they were M4 fleet-pure. And you put on a great 3-gun match back then. :-) |
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I spoke to the AMU today and learned that the barrels were replaced every 2500 rounds or so. The reason for the screw on vs. pin on FSB was convenience and flexibility. I was also told that the limiting factor of these rifles is the glass...with better glass it'd be accurate much farther than 600 yards. Wish I knew how to shoot that far!!
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A relative of mine went the the AMU SDM course with a similar rifle. It was a 20 inch gun with ACOG.
Problem was when they sent him to Afghanistan they gave him an M14 with a Mil-Dot. So much for consistency. ![]() Wonderful information all. |
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Wow, great post...thank you for contributing to the thread. That range is awesome...I wish we had something like that here!
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Originally Posted By Wakko:
Gentlemen, I offer you CMP/AMU rifle 2 of 40: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/WakkoGN/CMPArmaliteAR15/IMG_0448.jpg~original http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/WakkoGN/CMPArmaliteAR15/IMG_0449.jpg~original http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/WakkoGN/CMPArmaliteAR15/IMG_0457.jpg~original http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/WakkoGN/CMPArmaliteAR15/IMG_0456.jpg~original I was only able to put 18 rounds of 67 (IIRC) of JSP through it at 100 yards today, but it picked off the rocks that I was aimin' at. As you can see, the rifle is well used, but appears to be in excellent mechanical condition. ACOG is clear and illuminates, and the trigger is smooth and light. I did forget to weigh it today. It's pretty well balanced for a 20" HBAR. View Quote ![]() |
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Originally Posted By Wakko:
Wow, great post...thank you for contributing to the thread. That range is awesome...I wish we had something like that here! View Quote Forgot to add (and by no means am I rubbing it in ![]() cp |
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“Only accurate rifles are interesting.”
~Col. Townsend Whelen USAR Marksmanship Team "ad victoriam America" |
Thanks for the post and the information all.
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I took it shooting at the local 200 yard range on Sunday and didn't do all that well with it. I tried 55 grain and 62 grain, and it seemed to like the 62 better, but definitely had much room for improvement on the grouping. It doesn't help that I have absolutely zero training on long range rifle shooting.
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Originally Posted By Wakko: I took it shooting at the local 200 yard range on Sunday and didn't do all that well with it. I tried 55 grain and 62 grain, and it seemed to like the 62 better, but definitely had much room for improvement on the grouping. It doesn't help that I have absolutely zero training on long range rifle shooting. ![]() View Quote Ball ammo? "Well there's your problem!" |
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FBHO
Teener Krew 4 Lyfe Distinguished Rifleman #2223 MOA All Day: #1 Service Rifle Division "The .30-06 is never a mistake." - Townsend Whelen |
Originally Posted By Wakko:
I took it shooting at the local 200 yard range on Sunday and didn't do all that well with it. I tried 55 grain and 62 grain, and it seemed to like the 62 better, but definitely had much room for improvement on the grouping. It doesn't help that I have absolutely zero training on long range rifle shooting. ![]() View Quote Where in Florida are you located? Most of the public ranges in NE Florida only go out to 200 yards but, there are some private ranges that I shoot at that go out to 1000 yards if you want to stretch it out some. |
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Freedom is not Free..
The 2nd Amendment is a RIGHT, not a Privilege... Gun Gallery 4 Life: "Sellng Guns, Changing People's Lives" |
South...Palm Beach. 1000 yards? I can't hit crap at 200. :)
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What targets were you using?
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FBHO
Teener Krew 4 Lyfe Distinguished Rifleman #2223 MOA All Day: #1 Service Rifle Division "The .30-06 is never a mistake." - Townsend Whelen |
View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Sinister:
Originally Posted By Wakko:
Gentlemen, I offer you CMP/AMU rifle 2 of 40: As you can see, the rifle is well used, but appears to be in excellent mechanical condition. ACOG is clear and illuminates, and the trigger is smooth and light. I did forget to weigh it today. It's pretty well balanced for a 20" HBAR. BEAUTY! Here's one in the wild: http://i42.tinypic.com/245apdt.jpg "Gentlemen,
CMP is offering for sale 12 of the CMP SDM AR-15 rifles exclusively to the Military Rifle Instructors. These are the rifles we used at Ft. Benning for the SDM classes the past six years. The rifles were originally built by Armalite and then later rebarreled by the AMU. They are unique because of the CMP and AMU logo on the lower receiver. Rifles come complete with the Trijicon ACOG scope. Price is $1200 plus shipping. The rifles have been inspected and are considered in good shape, with the normal wear and tear on the rifle and scope. Since the rifles have been used extensively since the last rebarreling, they should not be expected to be as accurate as new rifles. I expect more responses than there are rifles. Therefore to make it fair to everyone, 12 names will be randomly drawn from all interested MRIs. If you would like to purchase a rifle, I need your response by midnight, 1 September, 2011. Your response is your commitment to buy if selected in the drawing. Thanks again for all your assistance. Steve Marksmanship Coordinator CMP" That was awesome info you provided earlier, but I have to point out one thing. That picture isn't of one in the wild. That is a picture of one build by someone on Snipers Hide several years ago. I remember the build thread. Mainly because that was the direction I wanted to go in as well for my first AR15 originally. He built it after getting to use a real SDM and came to his own opinion that the SDM was the best all around price for performance semi-auto precision rifle in 5.56. I wish I still had my old computer. That thread along with the thread testing the ballistics on the 22lr out to 500yards were booked marked on there from Snipers Hide. Not the same rifle, but if I remember correctly it is from the same thread. ![]() |
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Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training of the mind to reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classical-education/ |
New year bump. Still interested in the 77/TA01 details. Rifle zeroed at 100 yards and the bullet drops are accurate? CMP is allowing scopes this year...
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Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training of the mind to reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classical-education/ |
Wish I could help, but I don't know the answer.
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well, I downloaded Strelock and played around for a bit. Here is what I think they are using:
I get my reloads to duplicate the Black Hills 223 77OTM load at around 2600 fps, so maybe I need to go to the TA01NSN My rifle, a 20" BCM gov't profile barrel, A1 stock, MI rail, TA01, and now a LaRue trigger, which is a turd by comparison. |
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Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training of the mind to reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classical-education/ |
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